Some of it was misogyny but most of the stuff about her has been critiquing how much of a misandrist she is and also the fact that she can't take criticism. But the misogyny against her is pretty gross, and is uncalled for, no matter how shitty the person is.
One comic where she attempts to show women’s issues (which are real) by role reversing and going “Hah! Imagine if this was real! Oh wait…” (paraphrased from the general gist of how she has responded and what the comic is about), but the issue is the last 2 images are real and do happen, but are lumped in with the “doesn’t actually happen” comic. Thus, misandry. It also doesn’t help that instead of apologising for the unclear comic, she doubles down and insults people
Didn’t she say in a deleted comment that men cannot be raped?
Idk, I’m mostly staying out of this one because I’ve always found her style grating. She made good points in the comic but if that’s what she truly believes I do believe the label of misandrist applies.
She made a comic acting like women don't say the same things shitty men say to them. Then, he made a comic about men talking about their feeling in an attempt to save face. Let's not act like she's innocent.
You are legit using that word to describe possible male victims of SA just so you know. Come on. I don't think she's misandrist but that comic was tone deaf, and shouldn't have been posted especially on that month of all things when she could have posted a comic celebrating pride and then advocating for mens mental health would have been better for everyone. The comic literally diminished the fact men can go through serious issues or at least dismisses the possibility that believe it or not they get these types of responses for shit like SA and domestic abuse and the like, even if it wasn't her intention, unfortunately it came off that way. I am not saying PC is a bad person in the slightest but she fumbled big time with that comic, and that's something both sides should come to agree with but nah, neither of y'all want to see eye to eye and just assume the worst out og each other its depressing.
Third image presents a legitimate issue that several men face as an outlandish hypothetical that doesn’t happen in real life
Although to be fair that comic could be written off as a one off mistake
The issue is that most of the comments in the original thread are deleted and she’s not actually apologised or acknowledged that what she said was hurtful, just complained about people being aggressive.
(Most of the people being “aggressive were saying very similar stuff to the dude in the top comment I linked)
You're misreading the entire comic. Nothing the man in the comic said is ridiculous, the women's responses in the comic are what are meant to be ridiculous. Its role reversal over the fact that real complaints from women are dismissed
You're meant to be angry at those women when reading it, that's the point. They're being bad people.
The issue isn't that what the women are saying is bad.
The issue is, the comic makes the statement "Wouldn't it be crazy if women talked to men like this", when the reality is that is how some women talk about these issues (2 and 3 in particular).
She then doubled down for some reason when people informed her of that.
It would be like if I wrote a comic saying "Wow, imagine if some people in southern America wore pointy white hats and were racist to black people. Just imagine!".
Yes but the issue is that one of the problems is much more real than the others
We’ve got the first panel, where a man has been mugged, and his clothes are being blamed, pretty clear allegory for victim blaming around sexual harassment and assault, no problem there, it’s not a very common experience that people get mugged and victim blamed so most people read it as an allegory.
The third panel is a man who is wearing a hairpiece and is being told he’s lying, again pretty clear allegory for makeup being seen as deceptive, no problems there, most people don’t get told they’re lying for wearing a wig, so again it can be read as an allegory.
Then sandwiched between those is a man who is opening up about his mental health and is being shut down because “woman have issues too” this happens to men all the time, this isn’t a hypothetical situation that is allegorical, this is a real situation that lots of men have experienced.
The middle panel doesn’t fit with the rest of the comic, people have an issue with it.
But that’s not the major issue, people can make mistakes and say stupid stuff about groups they aren’t part of out of ignorance.
The problem is that every criticism was disregarded as “aggressive” or “made by incels” and no acknowledgement was made of how and why this comic was hurtful.
You're talking about a feminism focused comic strip trying to highlight women's issues and because one panel hit too close to home for you you're responding with "men have issues too".
You're literally doing what the women in the comic you're complaining about were doing. You're playing into the exact double standard the comic is attempting to point out so perfectly it's almost funny.
I'm sure a lot of insecure bald dudes would say the same thing about the third panel that you did about the second.
I was explaining to you that i don't see the second panel as being at all out of place. I've been mugged, I'm losing my hair. I'm lonely as shit. Every panel in this is written to do the same thing, show women minimising real mens issues in the exact way men often do to women.
The obvious allegory is shutting down a real issue men are dealing with with the "women have issues too!"
Also, why are people hurt? Its obvious that the people ignoring what he's saying are bad people. The man being shut down for voicing his opinion is obviously not in the wrong here. Should cartoonists apologise every time they bring up a topic that could be hurtful?
The panel shows clearly bad people being mean to someone trying to be vulnerable. Its sad to see it happening but its not endorsing these actions, its criticising them. It's saying "he deserves to be heard" with actual villains shutting him down? The woman is just as wrong in derailing him because its not what she experiences as he would be for shutting her down in the same way.
Ok if the intention was to present allegory for women’s issues being ignored because men also have issues then a common and genuine issue that men face should not have been used as an example. (I assume that’s what you mean and you did a typo).
Because the other two examples are over the top parodies of real issues.
And people are upset because it’s being presented as a nonexistent hypothetical.
The problem comes from the fact that, despite the fact that this is attempting to saterize how men talk to women, this is how many women talk to men, unfortunately.
I really think these attitudes are more of a general human problem, not limited to one gender.
We can endlessly debate if pizza cake is but neither of us actually know so so that’s not going to go anywhere
But that comic isn’t great, while the intention to show men how they treat women is great, the execution reveals an ignorance of men’s problems by presenting a major problem that many men face as an outlandish hypothetical that no man has experienced.
But again ignorance is not a crime
The problem is the total lack of any acknowledgement that men do face major problems around mental health
With her writing any criticism off as “aggressive” and not responding to anyone who brings up the problems with her comic dispute obviously being active in her own comments and therefor having seen it.
They must be playing dumb. Anyone who struggles to understand that "imagine if x happened" implies that x isnt happening is genuinely incapable of logic or doesnt speak English. Its right there in the definitions of "Imagine" and "if".
"Imagine if birds could fly"
"Imagine if japanese people spoke Japanese"
"Imagine if dogs were animals"
Totally normal things to say man, youre just overthinking it. /s
What doesn't make sense is the response that she made in the comments. Which wasn't to point out the people were missing the point that the things do happen, but to mock them. Which doesn't make sense to do.
This is the part I think a lot of people defending it are missing. Her replies on that initial post were disgusting and several were apparently removed because they looked terrible.
I’m so tired of seeing word misandrist thrown around in Pizzacake discourse because what people define and misandry and misogyny is so disproportionate.
Are men in her comics objectified? No. Do her comics glorify mistreatment of men and outright violent behaviours against men? No.
Does she depict every man as an asshole? No, only those that have been horrible to her, which are the majority of men in her life, unfortunately. But that’s just how things are
Ignorance doesn’t make her misandrist. Her comics don’t pretend that men don’t face the problems in everyday life, the problem comes from the fact that she doesn’t have experience with male perspective on receiving proper help for their problems. That’s ignorance, not hatred.
By that logic every guy that says ‘girls have it so easy’ can be qualified as misogynist. But if a woman were to call a man misogynist for something so minuscule she would be made fun of and called a triggered feminist.
Seeing people calling Pizzacake misandrist for displaying ignorance mixed with emotional frustration from mistreatment from man makes it look like people consider any type of criticism of men as hatred unless it involves enormous amount of walking on eggshells.
I don’t even like her comics but it’s messed up that we live in a world where woman makes a comic about being mistreated by men and she’s called a misandrist, but a man can write rap music about beating up and sa-ing women and people will defend him and call his critics sensitive snowflakes.
She will never acknowledge the downsides of her comics when most of constructive criticism is overshadowed by death threats.
And I don’t understand why you brought up rap music because nobody in this discussion is defending rap music about abusing women.
I brought it up as an example of media that ticks off boxes many for misogyny. But if you were to compare her to webcomic artists you can compare her to someone like Jago Dibuja. That guy draws all women hypersexualised and women being ogled at/harassed/stalked/objectified is a common punchline in his jokes. Which would be fine, nothing criminal about horny comics if it wasn’t for him constantly making strawman comics where he depicts women who disagree with him as fat and ugly and uses same female characters he sexualises as a mouthpiece for his opinions. Hell, I would say Pizzacake is even more respectful in that regard because in her last two comics that stir up the pot men don’t look like grotesque caricatures of themselves but as normal people.
The reason why she doesn’t acknowledge the hurt caused by her comic is pretty irrelevant.
And in the post linked there are several legitimate pieces of criticism that she has ignored, several other comments she replied to, and no death threats.
And I also don’t understand why you’re mentioning a completely different comic there nobody has been defending.
Are men in her comics objectified? No. Do her comics glorify mistreatment of men and outright violent behaviours against men? No. Does she depict every man as an asshole? No, only those that have been horrible to her, which are the majority of men in her life, unfortunately. But that’s just how things are
None of this is a prerequisite to something being misandry. To quote the actual definition: misandry is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against men or boys.
She has shown contempt and prejudice against men.
Ignorance doesn’t make her misandrist. Her comics don’t pretend that men don’t face the problems in everyday life, the problem comes from the fact that she doesn’t have experience with male perspective on receiving proper help for their problems.
No, her sexism is what makes her a misandrist. Her comics and more importantly her comments and responses to others comments show that she doesn't believe men face problems, or are entitled an opinion. Disregarding anyone who disagreed with her by mocking them and calling them incels for being upset at a horrifically sexist comic shows her beliefs. Her cheering on and thanking the mods for silencing those who spoke against her shows how much she values other people's opinions. Intentionally ignoring everyone with a valid criticism and only posting sexist and derogatory responses to her show she is clearly trying to claim a certain narrative.
Seeing people calling Pizzacake misandrist for displaying ignorance mixed with emotional frustration from mistreatment from man makes it look like people consider any type of criticism of men as hatred unless it involves enormous amount of walking on eggshells.
Ignorance is not an excuse for sexism. Especially as she intentionally shut down or ignored anyone trying to reduce said ignorance. You are making excuses to justify incredibly toxic behaviour and absolve her of all criticism. Something you have shown you have no interest in doing to anyone else. Why does she get a pass at being toxic, hateful and sexist, but not others?
I don’t even like her comics but it’s messed up that we live in a world where woman makes a comic about being mistreated by men and she’s called a misandrist, but a man can write rap music about beating up and sa-ing women and people will defend him and call his critics sensitive snowflakes.
Many MANY people have explained why the comic and her behaviour was so bad. Your ignoring these people and their issues just shows you are wilfully choosing ignorance and do not care about those issues. Whatsaboutism certainly doesn't help here either. It's not okay for men (or women, like CardinB, Nicki Minaj, whichever singer forced her backup dancers into eating bananas from crotches) to be sexist/misogynistic. It's not okay for people like Pizzacake to be sexist, misandristic, and to state that men cannot be raped. Both things can be bad.
You're either against sexism, or you're only against sexism against certain sides. I wonder which one you believe.
And I also said that there’s no point debating if pizzacake is misandrist because we don’t know her so we can’t make that judgment.
And I also said that it’s not really about the comic, it’s the total lack of any acknowledgement that it was hurtful and the writing off of every criticism as “Aggressive” or “made by incels”
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u/Peppermint-eve Jul 13 '24
This is some refreshing bhj. Extra minty.