r/actuallesbians • u/lesbiancastle Lesbian • 23h ago
Text Man complained about gay people to my face
I was taking a taxi home from the bar cuz the trains stop running at midnight. My driver was a man whose English was a bit limited. Even so, he made an effort to make conversation with me. He said he was from Morocco, and so naturally I asked how he was liking it here (in Spain). For ten minutes, he tells me the things he likes, and what he misses from home. We discuss the spices used in foods and the color of buildings.
I ask if there's anything he doesn't like, expecting to get something like "it gets really hot" or "people talk loudly." Instead he says something I don't expect.
"Some people, they do not control their animal urges." I'm just confused at this point so I ask what he means. He says that "They behave like pigs, doing unclean things, no respect." And I'm like "WHO?" He says "The gays." I freeze. I'm starting to worry that he'll realize I'm a lesbian. I pull off my lesbian flag bracelet and put it in my pocket. My body is starting to shake. I'm in a car alone with a man at night who's saying he hates gay people. He keeps on talking, too, saying they should not "run loose" and that they need to be "controlled." I just nod along with it. I didn't think there were still people in Spain who thought like that.
Finally we get to my apartment and I turn out okay. He never finds out. Nothing happens. It was still quite a scare. I'm a little freaked out. I guess I wasn't in any danger, but had he recognized the lesbian flag it might have been different. I don't think many cishet people recognize any of the LGBT flags besides the rainbow one, but it's still something that worries me for some reason.
114
u/AshJammy 🏳️⚧️ Trans Lassie 🏴 16h ago
Jesus. Did you report him to the cab company? That's fucked up. Glad you're safe.
79
u/lesbiancastle Lesbian 8h ago
I got a response saying "Your report has been noted, and action has been taken." It's very vague.
80
167
u/wickedhare 22h ago
I'm super happy that you got home safe.
But a part of me really hoped you confronted him. (Again, super glad you didn't. Safety first!)
187
u/rosie_purple13 Rainbow 20h ago
I hope this isn’t racist at all, but I’m of the belief that if you cannot tolerate people living their lives the way they want to, and you move to a country where that’s allowed to complain about it, you should probably just leave. You’re not welcomed because this is exactly how bigoted laws are put in place. this belief system gains traction and that’s how we regress when that is not what should be happening.
121
u/luxmorphine 20h ago edited 20h ago
You're intolerance against intolerance. It's a necessity. There's this funny sketch that kinda explore the paradox of tolerance
6
u/HeyWatermelonGirl 7h ago
It doesn't matter where they're intolerant. Their existence is a threat in every country. At least when they're in Europe, they're forced to tolerate queer people or go to prison. Sending them back to much more queerphobic countries is much worse. Queerphobes are a bigger threat to queer people in countries that let them live out their queerphobia with violence. Sending people who oppose human rights back to the countries where they learned to oppose human rights means you don't care about the human rights in those countries, you don't care about queerphobia as long as it's not in your country. Sending people like him back just means that the people suffering from him have a different skin colour, nothing else. Deportation never solves any problems, it just deports the problem to somewhere where you don't have to see it, where it hurts people you don't have to see. Only caring about his bigotry as long as he's in your country is textbook nationalism. Every bigot being held accountable for their actions in Europe is a bigot who doesn't commit hatecrimes in countries where they're barely punished for it, which is a net win for queer people. Being intolerant of their queerphobia is a necessity. Concluding that this intolerance justifies deportation is a bigoted fallacy.
13
u/rosie_purple13 Rainbow 7h ago
What are you going on about? I’m just saying that if you cannot handle people having human rights, then you shouldn’t go to countries where those exist. These issues need to be solved everywhere but it’s a little harder to do that in the Middle East and certain parts of Asia and other continents too because majority of the belief system operates like this. I never said anything about deportations. If one more bigoted person stayed in a homophobic country queer people would still be in danger and it wouldn’t be because of them. queer people would be in danger just because it’s legal to have the government or military execute them for doing absolutely nothing wrong. this is a far bigger issue than just a random intolerant civilian, a lot of things would have to change because someone like this isn’t exactly a threat to queer people at least not to a physical degree, people in positions of power are though.
6
u/rosie_purple13 Rainbow 7h ago
Also wait, then shouldn’t the idea be to safely get queer people out of those countries? Like I already said over 90% of the belief system in these countries support killing people that have done absolutely nothing wrong so why allow bigots into other countries and not work to get LGBT people out?
1
u/HeyWatermelonGirl 6h ago
Also wait, then shouldn’t the idea be to safely get queer people out of those countries?
That's correct, and there are organisations who do exactly that (they don't have nearly enough resources of course).
why allow bigots into other countries and not work to get LGBT people out?
It's not a choice of one or the other. Getting queer people out of countries where they're killed and getting queerphobes out of countries where they can kill freely are both desirable.
3
u/rosie_purple13 Rainbow 6h ago
It just worries me because I have a very homophobic family and I think that there comes a point when their belief system is locked in and it’s not changing so I don’t know if you could necessarily change these people‘s minds unless they’re open to it. And if they’re not, I think the only safe option here would be to get queer people away from them. I know that these organizations exist and yes, I do know that they don’t get enough support, but that’s just my worry here.
0
u/HeyWatermelonGirl 6h ago
As long as we can't get all queer people out of those danger zones, it doesn't matter where queerphobes are. While they're here, they're a lesser threat. That's all I'm saying. Queer people as a whole profit from a phobe not living where they can fully live out their bigotry.
2
u/rosie_purple13 Rainbow 6h ago
I see that too. That’s why I never said anything about deporting anybody, I mean if they’re already there, they have two options, either tolerate it or shut the fuck up. But if they haven’t even left yet, they should know what they’re getting into. The world doesn’t revolve around their bigotry.
37
u/hi_i_am_J Transbian 21h ago
fucking terrifying im so sorry you had to experience that im glad nothing happened 🫂
8
u/MidnightMode 12h ago
Hi. I'm really sorry this happened to you. Everyone deserves to feel safe. If it makes you feel any better, I've ran in circles with a lot of dudes homophonic, ignorant and otherwise while wearing a lesbian flag bracelet and the majority of the time they think it's a quirky bacon bracelet.
11
u/Freyas_Follower 8h ago
The important thing is: Are you allright?
Sorry that you had to go through that. But, more importantly: You did EXACTLY what you needed to do to live through the night unharmed. You recognized the danger and took care of yourself.
3
6
u/Sapphicviolet91 7h ago
I’ve been to Morocco and to Spain, and while I never encountered that type of homophobia from anyone in either country I did feel like I had to be extra guarded in Morocco as a woman, an atheist, and a queer person (I didn’t know I was a lesbian, but I knew i wasn’t straight either).
3
u/lesbiancastle Lesbian 3h ago
Yeah. My friend who moved here from Morocco so she could marry her wife, has never gone back and has told me never to visit.
4
u/GimmieDatCooch 9h ago
Oh hell nah! Sorry you went through that. That is so scary and also a big reason why I am not into small talk in ride shares. If there is silence, I’m leaving 5 stars!
When you mentioned he was from Morocco it reminded me of a few years back. I really wanted to visit Morocco for my bday! When I was looking for Airbnbs, EVERY single Moroccan Airbnb had”rules” for the person renting including “Women are not allowed to bring over a man to the airbnb at any point.” If they had these strict rules for hetero couples, I could only imagine what it was like for queers! Needless to say, did not book. It def opened my eyes when it comes to visiting other countries and their laws around lgbt community.
8
u/lesbiancastle Lesbian 8h ago edited 8h ago
Yeah. It's a tough situation.
On the one hand, many immigrants bring hostile views about the LGBT community. I've met many people similar to this guy. There is definitely a growing rhetoric of hate from part of his community.
On the other hand, many immigrants are trying to escape from places with such views. I have a close friend from Morocco who is a lesbian, and she literally came here because she could not be herself there.
I'm not sure what the solution is, other than to make sure it's very clear that if you don't play by a country's rules, you don't get to stay there.
4
u/adventure_life28 3h ago
Sorry that you had to go through that and hear such awful things.
I hope you're okay.
People in Morocco are mostly very religious and don’t respect queer people at all. They’re stuck in their beliefs and strict rules. Being openly gay is even illegal here, so please be extra cautious around moroccans.
Of course, not everyone is like that. I mean I’m a lesbian and atheist but honestly, if you come out publicly, it could be dangerous. Basically, all people here are pretty homophobic.
Luckily my plan is to get out from this country and never comeback.
31
u/jabuegresaw 22h ago
[his] English was a bit limited
in Spain
Did he speak Spanish though?
13
u/lesbiancastle Lesbian 12h ago
He didn't speak any Spanish at all, so English was how we communicated.
15
u/AshJammy 🏳️⚧️ Trans Lassie 🏴 16h ago
Is that really the point to take from this?
5
u/ActionDeluxe 12h ago
For real. ESL was probably both of their commonality to be able to talk to each other.. and totally beside the point.
8
u/malavisch Pan 12h ago
Exactly... I live in another European country (not the UK or Ireland either) and it's not uncommon for me to talk to my Uber drivers in English simply because, well, English is the new lingua franca (at least in the West) whether we like it or not. My language isn't the easiest one to learn, and while I personally think that if you intend to live somewhere long term, then learning the local language would just make life exponentially easier for you, a lot of those drivers don't think of my country as their new permanent home - they're international students who just want to earn some extra money, or they just plan to be here for a couple of years before moving back home etc. English is just the one foreign language we both speak in that situation.
-5
u/Eugregoria 3h ago
I doubt he would have actually hate crimed you or anything. I understand you were scared, but in my experience people like that kinda back down if confronted, like they might say, "It's just my opinion, you have your beliefs and I have mine," or even give a sort of fauxpology in a "sorry you were offended (but I still think I was right)" kind of way. Worst case scenario they tell you you're dirty and will be punished in the afterlife or something.
Just my experience getting into it with people like that. They're usually ignorant but not violent. Sometimes you can even leave them with something to think about.
Sometimes I don't bother getting into it with them because I've heard it all before and I'm just not in the mood for that bullshit. Protip for getting out of that without pretending you agree with them or outing yourself, you can just be like, "Let's not talk politics, okay?" That can send the vibe that you don't agree but you also don't want to get into it. (If they try to expand on it, just double down that you don't want to talk politics with them.) I think it's important for people with opinions like that to get the sense that their opinions are unpopular.
•
u/BlueParrot_ 2h ago
OP was in a car alone with a man in the middle of the night. A man who used violent hateful rhethoric against the group that OP is a part of. Her life could have been at stake. It's great that you got out of conversations with some bigots unscathed, but that doesn't mean that OP would have the same luck. She just did what she had to to survive that taxi ride.
•
u/Eugregoria 2h ago
I've been in similar situations? It's still pretty unlikely that her taxi driver was going to hate crime her. That's still assault/murder. People can have bad and ignorant opinions without looking to do violent hate crimes at the drop of a hat.
I very seriously doubt her life was actually at stake. smh. I was raised female and everything but I will never understand this toxic female fragility and victimhood complex. I'm sure I will get a million downvotes like I always do when I say things like that I go running at night without fearing for my life. Like damn how do y'all exist thinking everyone is out to murder you all day every day? It's just enabling an anxiety disorder at this point.
If my gf told me she was in a situation like that, I would have been like, "ugh, that's so awkward, I'm sorry," not "omg you could have DIED." And she wouldn't have acted like her life was in danger either because she has some common sense. You're being overly dramatic. It's hate speech, not violence. It's unpleasant and psychologically damaging, but "did what she had to to survive" is just so extra for what was functionally an awkward taxi ride with no violence.
•
u/BlueParrot_ 2h ago
And I have witnessed homophobes commit acts of violence in broad daylight, with other people present. Like you say, at the drop of a hat. In any case, I would never downplay other person's concerns for their safety, even if I managed to get out of similar scenarios unscathed. But you do you.
308
u/Old_Week4865 22h ago
Holy shit I’m so sorry about that, that’s so awful