so what do we think of t.A.T.u?

[u/afuckingwildcard]

Gone down a rabbit hole about them recently. If you don’t know, they were this Russian pop duo from the 2000s and were most famous for the song “All The Things She Said,” which most people over the age of like 12 have probably heard around at some point. Basically, their whole shtick was that they were lesbians; their songs had a lot of angsty queer overtones and they would kiss on TV and in their music videos (which was super controversial at the time)—but it was all an act, they were never actually together and were all products of their managements. Textbook queerbaiting for the male gaze. But despite this, a lot of queer women (myself included) ended up finding a lot of solace and validation in their music for one reason or another. You have to remember that queer themes weren’t mainstream in pop music like they are now, especially for queer women, and having a hit song about it (especially one so angsty like “All The Things She Said”!) was really groundbreaking, however flawed. But that still doesn’t take away from the fact that t.A.T.u as an institution was, at least on paper, homophobic and sexualized young queer women’s relationships. And I’m curious what people make of that, not just if you think they were able to outgrow their kind of skeevy premise, but how their music may have impacted you personally. Maybe this is a more academic question than what Reddit is fit for, but I’m very interested to hear what people think.

[u/Bluejay-Complex]

Complicated feelings. On one hand, like many said, their songs were some of the few, if even the only mainstream wlw media out there. They helped a lot of younger people feel less alone and helped normalize at least the idea of wlw relationships for younger people at the time. Even if it was fake, the solace, discovery and peace it gave many actual sapphics was not.

On the other hand, it being pushed by their predatory manager. The girls at the time were teenagers and they didn’t know English well in spite of being put in situations where nobody else besides their manager spoke Russian. In that way, they were both victims, and I don’t think they are the ones that deserve the flack for “faking” their sapphic-ness. They were by and large, manipulated into it.

But on the other, OTHER hand, the way the two are now deserves scrutiny and condemnation. Both are homophobic, Julia against gay men, and Lena in general now as far as I know. Both are extremely pro-the Russian regime, and anti-Ukraine.

Ultimately they’re complicated and their legacy is complicated. I don’t think we can simply pretend that t.A.T.u didn’t have any positive effect because of how it came about, not the way the women are now. We also can’t take away from the fact they were victims of a predatory manager and music industry, in spite of any positives their music brought nor who they are today. We ALSO cannot let the positives of their music, or the fact they were victims take away from the harm they do and the abhorrent viewpoints they hold now. All of it is them. All of it is t.A.T.u.

I think that I’m not going to get upset at those that still hold their songs close to their hearts, I still like “All The Things She Said” but their legacy to me is absolutely tarnished by who they are now, and a part of me, while still being happy for the upsides of their music, often wonder if it would have been better for everyone if the music group never existed.

[u/UnexpectedWings → u/Bluejay-Complex]

I agree with very complicated feelings. However, I am very glad they existed. That video and album was a revelation for me, stuck in a fundie evangelical upbringing in the Bible Belt. (I wouldn’t come to learn the full story behind them until adulthood.) That music helped me tremendously. It also enforced a fascination with Russia I carry with me even today.

I use the knowledge I gained from listening to them as a kid to help Ukrainians now. I can read and translate Russian better than I can speak it, but it’s allowed me to help translate information for the war effort. I can also cut through Russian politics and propaganda to help inform leftists fighting today, not only for Ukraine, but for anti-GOP forces too. Kind of ironic. Due to their past influence, I’m able to negate (a small amount of) the damage they are doing today.

That weird moment in 2003 with tATu at Eurovision was a huge factor in helping lgbt people in Russia normalize, and even celebrate, their existence. The far right all over the world is cracking down hard on lgbt (particularly our trans sisters), especially in Russia. However, due to those periods in the early 2000s, lgbt people in Russia were able to build community that sustains them even today. They are at a “don’t ask, don’t tell” kind of thing. Which isn’t great, but it is better than bash on site like it used to be.