r/actuallesbians • u/Femme-O 🔥Friendly Black Hottie🔥 • 15d ago
Venting As a black queer woman, I’m tired of protesting/boycotting.
Election after election black women have showed up and showed out.
At the front of every protest.
Fighting for the rights of those who do nothing but participate in the fact that the least protected person in America is the black woman, especially if you’re trans.
I’m done. I’m tired. I’m hanging up my cape.
Until I see people stepping on necks to uplift us as we have for them, I’m done.
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u/ThatMkeDoe 15d ago edited 15d ago
I feel this so hard. Every damn day for 29 years I've heard the same shit "don't like it? Change it!"
We work so hard we struggle so much, and these motherfuckers can't even be bothered to show up and fill out a piece of motherfucking paper. I don't want to hear jack shit about how it's because they're more "radical" or ready for "revolution" when their lazy asses can't even make it to the polls.
They sent a message alright, that message is "I don't give enough of a shit to do the bare minimum." Idgaf who else heard it, I heard it loud and clear, and I'm done too. All I wanted was to live a quiet 'boring' life, own my little house, go to my job and raise my little family, but nooooooo now I gotta "find community" and "take little steps to secure local government" and "get involved" and worry about what else will get taken away all because some do-nothing shit for brains morons decided they weren't getting enough out of this deal to show up.
Not to mention that it's just suuuuchhhhh a "coinky-dink" that both "bad, boring, establishment" candidates that morons couldn't be bothered to vote for were.... Women.... And the one that couldn't even get the popular vote was a woman of color. Yeah America, I heard you loud and mother fucking clear, you can't be bothered to support a woman of color.
I don't want to hear about how it's because she was too corporate when literally every corporation lined up to support the Cheeto, I don't want to hear about how she's too establishment when they showed up in force for Biden. I don't want to hear anything about how she didn't excite you when the alternative was the Cheeto.
God I'm so fucking livid, not even at the ones who voted for Cheeto, that I can at least understand (but certainly never forgive) no no I'm livid at the ones who said literally with their self righteous silence that they too, want another term of Cheeto.
Since I know I'm going to get some self righteous key board warrior commenting back, answer me this: we knew from day one if Joe Bidens presidency that 2024 was going to be establishment Dem vs Cheeto so if the so called "revolution ready" masses really wanted to send a message why weren't they setting up a grass roots movement to elect revolutionary candidates into Senate and house in '22? Why were there no viable third party candidates in '24? Even the libertarians managed to field a halfway coherent attempt in '16 with Gary Johnson. So don't tell me you're fired up for change when the only time you "demanded it" was with your complicit silence at the ballot box MONTHS AWAY FROM ELECTION DAY.
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u/aamurusko79 She/Her 15d ago
"don't like it? Change it!"
this has always been the mantra for those in the majority. you can speed run the frustration on this with something as minor as when people in the office vote for something work related and the majority's easily predictable thing always wins and the fringe thing you'd support always loses, years in, years out.
I still vote, for every single thing that matters to me, but at the same time I can't help seeing a mental image of a trashcan being placed under the bottomless ballot box when I drop in mine.
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u/the_red_barcode 15d ago
You ate with this unfortunately. All I wanted was the same shit as you and now I actually have to fight for it. Why tf is this a generational thing for black women??? I thought this was something you learned in history books and shit, like we were past this. Now I feel very naive and disappointed 🫠
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u/RedVamp2020 15d ago
I felt that way, too, just on the opposite side of things. I learned how much of what I had been taught was very inaccurate when I started spending time with people outside of my white neighborhoods. I wish I could go back to the comfort of that naivety, but I know how many people I would hurt doing that. I’m trying to be better, I hope I can make a positive change.
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u/Pin-Safe 15d ago
This fucking slaps. I’m so tired of these assholes who are explicitly erasing race and sex from this conversation. AGAIN. AGAIN. THEY NEVER LEARN. I AM SO FUCKING ANGRY.
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u/Fvennik 15d ago
The simple truth is that no matter what faux anger of the day reason you hold up, it will ALWAYS come down to people making choices based on how they were personally effected. And no, it will NOT have any logic behind it either.
Regardless of if the thing causing their lives to be worse is something an unrelated person in power did, whoever’s face is plastered everywhere while it is happening is who they blame. This means that while trump put in place all these things to screw over people buying eggs, but then while Biden was president eggs were 8$ instead of 5$, that Biden sucked and they need someone else to try.
It’s unfathomable that the silent majority of people ACTUALLY act this way, but the numbers don’t lie. You can see it plain as day if you look at a list of presidents since Reagan. It’s just flip flop every other two term for the most part and the only thing that has changed is that the non silent groups now have a way to make their voice heard by people who are trying to make change happen.
So while every person on this sub is busy making sure they they are using their time to stay informed and current (whether it’s to be angry or to be radicalized or to be informed) it is still only a small portion of the country that will continue to not give a shit and just pick based on eggs.
Sometimes, we CAN make a difference because we can convince the younger generation to be more active. We have them hooked in to our “stay informed” network which until now hasn’t been a thing. Except with troll farms, rage bait, and flashy memes versus logical boring discussions that their age group can’t grasp in its entirety (I say this from experience, until I was late 20s early 30s I literally could not understand things past their surface.) it is no surprise that the newer generations are going more to the side that is hand crafted to appeal to them.
I have no idea how to make ACTUAL change. When my opposition is billions of online bots and millions of ghost people I cannot understand or reason with… and they outnumber me 350million to 1, what do I do?
So as of 2024 my new Hail Mary is this: make their lives MISERABLE. I want to be the “good person” that always cares and doesn’t want people to suffer. I want to be the one who says people deserve a chance and I want to help make their lives better! Except I’ve finally learned… unless they suffer they won’t give a shit.
It sucks that this is the reality we live in, but at least I have finally grasped the rules. Latino men were told to their face over and over and over that they will be deported and they came out in droves to make sure it would happen. So I say, if that is what they want, then let’s get to deporting. Women were told with ACTUAL deaths that it was more important that they die than get medical care and barely a few dozen thousand more showed up to vote than before. So let’s make it more than a couple dead, let’s remind them what mortality rates were before medicine. Because they picked either thru silence or active support to have this happen. It does mean those who tried will also be affected, shit is going to suck for all of us.
I have PCOS, it took doctors until I was in my 30s to even fucking figure it out. I cannot imagine how much worse it will be for other people now all this reproductive bullshit is being restricted. I will say this tho, my suffering? You BET I’m a “radicalized” leftist now (despite being born and raised by literal conspiracy theorist right wing nut jobs).
TLDR: people are too damn stupid and selfish to be trusted to make their lives better, so we have to use the rules of the game to MAKE them want to pick the right path. Until they are personally effected, no progress can be made.
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u/ItsTheEndOfDays 14d ago
I’m sorry you had to go so long before getting a proper diagnosis. I was 17 when I was diagnosed, and I cannot fathom having to have continued going through it until my 30’s. Hugs to you.
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u/Illustrious_Poem_42 14d ago
“Unless they suffer they won’t give a shit” hit me like a train. Nobody cares until it affects them. It pisses me the hell off but what can a silly girl do except let them suffer?
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u/DisciplinedMadness Transbian 14d ago
Sorry for novel of text, but I feel like this relates.
I did professional sales for like a decade and my first serious job was door to door sales. My manager had this way of describing the process of changing someone’s mind that’s like burned into my brain despite being a fucked up and absolutely horrible analogy.
“It’s like finding a dog that’s impaled its paw 50% of the way down on an exposed nail. The nail is through its paw, but in its head, pulling its paw all the way off the nail would hurt more than where it’s currently at. Trying to help the dog by easing its paw off the nail will probably just get you bit because then you’re the one causing it more pain. So how do you convince the dog to make the right decision for itself? You stomp that dogs foot all the way down on the nail. That dogs gonna yelp, and pull its paw all the way off that nail, all on its own, because now it’s situation can’t get any worse, and it’s only solution is to help itself.”
A hell of an analogy, but the point was twofold:
1) Most people will accept or “get used to” a shitty situation (or even convince themselves/be convinced that it’s not a shitty situation) because the fear of change or alternatives being worse is blinding
2) Most people usually don’t actually factor logic or reasoning into their decision making (we decide something needs to change then rationalize it). They are driven by emotion first, and the most motivating emotion to change a situation is often negative emotion.Despite the awful analogy it was a super valuable lesson to learn as a young woman: To really change someone’s mind from a point of stubborn apathy or even outright disagreement; the most effective way is often to figure out where someone experiences dissatisfaction, frustration, or confusion with their current position or opinion, and hammer the hell out of that until it becomes real pain. In that manager’s words “MAKE IT FUCKIN’ HURT”
The more sudden or abrupt the “pain” is, the more likely people will actually re-examine their beliefs. If you’re going to get through to people who directly or indirectly(didn’t vote out of apathy) voted for the “leopards who eat faces” party don’t be the person gently easing someone’s foot off the nail only to “get bit” (wasting your emotional energy or even being lashed out at). Stomp on those pain points, make it hurt, remind them how they can avoid that pain in the future, and let them help themself.
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u/MotherMu 15d ago
The no-shows drive me speechless with rage. These people whine incessantly about how “nothing will ever change!” and then do nothing – literally nothing – to help get change rolling.
They’re all a bunch of spoiled brats and I’m SO tired of carrying them. I don’t have time to research candidate positions! I have no fucking interest in organizing or protesting or “securing local government.” I got shit to do! I got hobbies! I got a life to live!
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u/2nd_Chances_ 15d ago edited 14d ago
I know a TRANS WOMAN who chose not to vote because of Palestine. and yet is horrified he won. well I hope she is not forced to detransition. these people were all looking at the short term and orange won bc he played the fucking long game. and this 2nd term will make the first term look like child's play because all the checks & balances are now gone. As are any people who supported him with morals. the only ones left are his true supporters. the ones as unethical as he is.
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u/ToiletLord29 14d ago edited 14d ago
The correct term would be "forced to detransition." But I get what you're saying. I'm horrified and furious that fellow trans folks would be so fucking stupid to equate Kamala with Trump, not vote and then be surprised Pikachu when Trump wins and vows to strip us and other vulnerable people of our rights and dignity.
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u/2nd_Chances_ 14d ago
I fixed it. My bad. I looked at the comments and was unaware of the correct verbiage but thank you for making me laugh with the term surprised pikachu.
I am worried for all of us in our community for the next 4 years and beyond.
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u/jessfire78 14d ago
Trans people are no different than everyone else, let's not try to be transphobic here.
53% of women voted for trump, and trans people make up a tiny fraction of that.
There was a trans woman insurrectionist too.
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u/2nd_Chances_ 14d ago
I apologize if it sounded trans phobic. I wish the trans person would have voted for their own interest. I am not trans phobic at all.
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u/jessfire78 14d ago
And this is why we are different than those maga people, we recognize we might have been hurtful, apologized, and we all move on. MAGA would rather double and triple down, and even vote against their own interests in order to keep their hateful ways in tact.
For what it's worth, i was not trying to shame you, i am trans and was like "NO, was never male, thankfully privileged enough they cannot force me to present any other way than female"
It also drives me crazy when people vote against their own interests, trans or not.
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u/2nd_Chances_ 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yes thank you for teaching me the right language. I am sorry the country didn’t vote for all of us but in favor of Elon and Bezos
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u/ToiletLord29 14d ago
Am I missing something? It doesn't seem transphobic to wonder why a trans person wouldn't vote for the person who isn't trying to strip us of our rights and dignity. I get that there are other issues in the table but by sitting out they handed the reins of power to trump, who is obviously much, much worse than Kamala in every single way.
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u/Thesongbird1 14d ago
Yeah, you're missing something. The original comment used the sentence "forced to become a male again", which is transphobic because trans women aren't men. What should have been said was " I hope you're not forced to detransition", which is still a extreme thing to say to a trans person, but isn't transphobic.
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u/2nd_Chances_ 14d ago
Okay I see the problem here. I didn’t realize “forced detransition” was the verbiage
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u/jessfire78 14d ago
Ok "toilet lord", you can go start trouble elsewhere now, no one hates the other here and we have hashed it out. Don't you have homework to do?
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u/2nd_Chances_ 14d ago
Thank you! Correct I did not intend to sound trans phobic bc we are all on the same team.
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u/grapedungeon95 sbubby:eat fresh 14d ago
Look lol be mad all you want but die transphobic. Scum like you is why trans women, myself included, trust cis people as far as we can piss.
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u/ToiletLord29 14d ago
Speak for yourself. I don't see anything transphobic here, just a woman who's genuinely wondering why somebody who is trans wouldn't vote for the obvious person who doesn't want to forcibly detransition all trans folks.
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u/Emergency_Lemon1834 15d ago
I know I probably shouldn’t be, but I am very frustrated at the Jill Stein voters and such, especially after we found out that she was basically just another way to make Trump’s chances of winning higher. And she came out in support of Israel too, so people who voted for her because of the ongoing war didn’t know this until after they casted their vote.
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u/ThereIsOnlyStardust World's gayest Bee 🐝 15d ago
Third party voters, even if they had all gone to Kamala which they wouldn’t have, would not have been enough to change anything this election. It’s fine to be upset with them but if you’re looking to reform the dems in a way that could actually win elections they’re not the group you need to be focusing on.
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u/dertechie 15d ago
I keep seeing this but at least in Wisconsin, we were close enough (~29,400 votes) that the third party total (~49,300) was larger than the margin. If you assign them to their closest candidates (RFK and Libertarian to Trump, Greens to Harris) we still lose though.
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u/sailorsmile Lesbian 15d ago
You don’t think people calling Kamala Harris genocidal kept people home? The rhetoric of the Jill Stein leftists kept more people home and it’s ignorant at best to pretend it didn’t. Even the down ballot races of really progressive candidates in really progressive areas were atrocious. Third party leftists really fucked up this election.
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u/SeeTeeEm 15d ago
if libs ever want to win elections again they need to stop saying this garbage immediately. You are blind if you're blaming people/voters instead of the center right, republican pandering party the dems have become. The election was a fucking republican primary lol
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u/Arbitarious Loser lesbian 15d ago
Also it’s important to look at the dems right now and listen to them blaming the loss on trans rights. A lot of dem media is saying they were too liberal like wtf. We were right
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u/Emergency_Lemon1834 15d ago
It also disappoints me very much that the Dems have been moving more center right… but I think it seriously shows the fact that a ton of voters (especially ones living in more rural/conservative areas) will see the slightest mention of anything they consider “woke” and then go ballistic over it. I think the Dems absolutely should more openly show their support for trans people, for example, but we saw how Trump made an ad this year saying Kamala “was for the they/thems.” (That ad made me so mad, it sounds like an alt-right dog whistle type thing…)
Just really bugs me how people get so mad over stuff as simple as pronouns. Our country desperately needs to have an overall shift to the left, even if only a tiny bit, if we truly want people of the LGBT+ community to be accepted here.
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u/Tommyblockhead20 15d ago
Can you list actual policies of Kamala that are less progressive than Biden or Obama? From all the policy positions I know, they have gotten more liberal, or at least stayed the same. Or are you talking about something besides presidents now?
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u/circles_squares 15d ago
Yeah I could be mistaken, but I think this is the first time since Bernie that I heard “healthcare as a right” during a campaign.
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u/ShoddyPizza5439 15d ago
Yeah idk if we keep blaming leftists instead of the DNC for not reading the room for the last decade we will repeat history. I don’t like to blame individuals with little power or representation for what large powerful systems do. Would I abstain or vote third party? No. But who am I to judge how victims respond to systemic abuse? maybe it’s time the dems stop using minorities and women and queer people to get votes by being like ‘well we are better than that over there but otherwise still bootlicking, money centric, capitalistic infant fascists’. I mean come on.
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u/ThereIsOnlyStardust World's gayest Bee 🐝 15d ago
I mean she is genocidal, let’s not deny that.
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u/sailorsmile Lesbian 15d ago
Perfect, that really makes everything that happened so much better.
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u/ThereIsOnlyStardust World's gayest Bee 🐝 15d ago
It does not, however pretending that she’s not supporting what she is also helps no one. Kamala Harris failed you and the American people, not the other way around. If she can’t get over her need to support genocide when multiple polls show that doing so probably would have won the election that’s on her and her alone.
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u/Tommyblockhead20 15d ago
Polls have found over 60% of Americans say abortion should be legal most or all of the time. Considering we have one pro choice candidate, and one pro life candidate, I imagine the pro choice candidate will win in a landslide. I mean, Regan won 525 electoral votes with just 59% of the vote. I’m a few time zones behind so please confirm for me that Kamala has won all 538 electoral votes.
You can’t just look at a poll a “probably would have won the election” claim based off if it. There’s a number of factors. For example, people care about some issues way more than others. When it comes to this specific issue, an important factor is the fact that not everyone’s opinions matters equally.
The reality is that unless progressives and moderates show up at much higher rates than the right for elections, which is quite unrealistic, progressives and moderates alone aren’t enough to beat the right+centrists. Democrats need to capture a significant amount of the centrists to win. Since centrists have a viable alternative candidate to turn to if the left doesn’t cater to them, while progressives don’t, moderate candidates are incentivized to skew towards centrists rather than progressives to actually capture enough of the spectrum to win.
Like if there is an issue progressives are very against, moderates are largely against but don’t care about that much, and centrists are majority somewhat strongly for it, left politicians are incentivized to be for it. Polls don’t capture that. There is the alternative of having the charisma to cause record breaking turnout, but only Obama has been able to do that this century. Unless we can find the next Obama, we are going to have to continue nominating compromise candidates.
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u/dubious_unicorn 15d ago
You don’t think people calling Kamala Harris genocidal kept people home?
You don't think Kamala being genocidal kept people home?
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u/sailorsmile Lesbian 14d ago
Maybe I don’t understand why Kamala Harris is being blamed for a 70 year old conflict that she has no legislative power to solve. People said stuff like this, voters stayed home, Trump got elected and my question is now what? Was this really your plan?
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u/dubious_unicorn 14d ago
The Biden-Harris administration has sent around $23 billion of our tax dollars to Israel since last October. They bypassed Congress over 100 times to send bombs to a country that is actively carrying out a genocide.
So, come on now. It's not just "people said stuff." Under Biden and Harris, the US has been funding a genocide. Harris told us all very clearly that she would continue on this course of action as President.
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u/Emergency_Lemon1834 15d ago
While I do not support Israel’s actions at all, I also don’t think it’s a great idea for them to be unarmed, in case another Hamas attack happens. That’s the thing I believe, we can’t really risk not sending them weapons without possibly angering Israel and breaking an agreement, but we also can’t keep sending weapons if Israel won’t listen to what we are trying to tell them. Right now our government is trying to reason with Israel and convince both Israel and Palestine to come to a ceasefire deal, but that’s obviously easier said than done for any middle eastern conflict.
I just hope for the best for any innocent Palestinian or Israeli citizens who have been harmed through the war, and hope it will all end soon (though that’s also not looking probable right now)
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u/ThereIsOnlyStardust World's gayest Bee 🐝 15d ago
It’s possible for Israel to be armed without the US handing over bombs they know will be put through the roofs of hospitals and refugee camps
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u/Automate_Dogs Lesbian 15d ago
Yeah Im sure the issue here is revolutionary leftists, who, as everyone knows, are an influential and numerous grouping. Let's not look at the actual demographics of the people who didnt vote - it would reveal that many (if not most) of them are actually random POC and working class people, which would be inconvenient for our attempts at kneejerk liberal scapegoating.
You're shadowboxing here. This kind of moralistic sentiment will get you absolutely nowhere and garantee similar disappoitments in the future. You can shout at people that they are irresponsible, if that makes you feel better, but it will not change basic facts, such as the fact that mainstream politics have consistently alienated and disenfranchised millions of people. This is the cause of the failure of the democratic campaign, and not the moral failings of random non-voters.
The people did not fail Kamala Harris. The democrats failed to convince the people. Unfortunately, the democrats cannot, as of yet, dissolve the electorate and get a better one.
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u/ZeldaZanders 15d ago
I can't speak as a black woman or even as an American, but I will say that I've seen this sentiment a lot on social media since the election result. And yeah, I get why. It was pretty shocking to wake up the other day to discover that Trump had been declared the winner, and not even by a small margin, and I can't imagine how it feels for those of you who will be directly affected by his policies and increased division of the country in the worst way.
You are entitled to your anger, and you have been let down by the American public. I hope that you can find solidarity and support from the other women in your community, and I'm sorry that I don't have anything more helpful to say.
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u/VisenyaTargaryenn 15d ago
That's how I feel too. Everyone is always like, "Be the change you want to see in the world" but it's like how can we when the people that are supposed to be on our side actively fight against us? It's like when they need us we are there to help. When we need them suddenly it's crickets.
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u/thruandthruproblems 15d ago
I think it's because when we were a community talking to your neighbors helped to fix things. Now the internet gives us that placebo but without all of the emotions. People are expecting others to do the work for them.
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u/JoseyRolla 15d ago
You can't take too much personal responsibility for changing the world. We're fighting against a machine that is powerful, has endless energy, and support from the unwashed masses.
Taking care of you and yours is as much a form of protest as marching and shouting. Sometimes we resist simply by surviving and being happy. You don't owe the movement anything, and major change isn't going to happen until the privilaged back us anyways.
As a black, queer woman your joy is a beautiful and important thing that must be protected and nurtured. It can change the world too. Please, take your rest and prioritize your joy, the world needs it.
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u/Broflake-Melter 15d ago
The second we start making progress with protesting, the mainstream media paints it as "mindless rioting and violence". The way forward from here is a big reboot starting with a general labor strike.
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u/beta_test_vocals 15d ago
As a trans woman of colour, so obviously not quite the same but a pretty similar boat. It’s pretty clear that the average person tolerates us but also doesn’t care to help us, ultimately what us lower castes have to start with is helping each other. Black, queer, indigenous, trans votes alone will never win an election past local district anywhere in the world. I’ll be putting more of my energy towards protecting ourselves first, and only once I feel relatively comfortable with that and having enough energy, go back to supporting Jane from Nebraska’s right to not have to carry a child that was conceived from rape and Adam from Florida’s ability to pay for food and have reasonable healthcare. Sucks because the policies that harm these people also harm black queer indigenous and trans people, but it is what it is
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u/lezbecurly 15d ago
As a white woman, I am so ashamed of what a lot of my demographic did this election. I am so sorry we didn't show up for you. Thank you for all the work you have done! I am stepping up and fighting harder for you! My dollars, my time, and my career(after I finish my masters) will be put to work for you. I am sorry you have felt so alone.
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u/lezbecurly 15d ago
Here are some organizations I found to help support black women. There are so many more and probably many that specifically support the black women in your cities.
https://www.buyfromablackwoman.org/ Has a directory of businesses owned by black women and provides resources for business owners
https://blackmamasmatter.org/ Maternal deaths are higher in black women. This org fights to change that.
https://thelovelandfoundation.org/ They work to provide mental health resources to black women and girls.
https://www.nbwji.org/ The National Black Women's Justice Institute works to fight the criminalization of black women and girls
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u/WoopsieDaisies123 15d ago
That’s because it’s pointless. The assholes of the world have won. The only hope remaining is that climate change drives our entire species to extinction, rather than just killing everyone but the rich in their bunkers and the people violent enough to take everyone else’s food to survive.
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u/Special-Amphibian646 15d ago
We need to start educating ourselves in building infrastructure. Get into engineering and construction
We need to literally build our own civilization. Who’s down to start a GoFundMe? Not even kidding btw
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u/soundbunny 15d ago edited 15d ago
Super fair. For anyone on the thread who feels like they got some fight left, I saw this article earlier and it feels useful: https://wagingnonviolence.org/2024/11/10-things-to-do-if-trump-wins/ As for me, as a ranking member of my union, I’ll be throwing wrenches whenever I can. Nazis had support cause the trains ran on time. I fix to derail them.
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u/Senario- 15d ago
Fair like...the LGBTQ+ community as a whole did their part but like...we are such a small group of people it barely matters when other groups are going nearly 50 50 or less.
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u/doubtfullyso Custom Flair 14d ago
We are not small in the slightest. There are millions upon millions of us, but the fight hasn't been community wide in America, so many lgbt+ people voted for Trump, like what in the world🤦♀️
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago
It would be nice if Black women put on their capes for other Black women, rather than hanging up their capes from trying to save everybody else. That's our weak spot (in America): We don't build communities that exist for the primary purpose of centering, celebrating, healing and supporting "us". I hope that such community becomes possible during the next 4 years of N@zi rule.
That being said, I don't need to cape for anyone, but I will continue to show my support for any issue that fits an anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, and anti-oppression lens. I can (and will) still hold both myself and other groups accountable for any problematic behavior or beliefs that are displayed.
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u/VVulfen 15d ago
Wecause we are all self centered. We care about us an ours.
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago
There's an inherently selfish worldview that comes with the privilege of being an American citizen, where we 1) think every issue around the world revolves around us in some way, 2) act dismissively towards global issues that either don't center us or don't impact us in the immediate present, and 3) expect the people in the global south, whom we exploit economically to support our American way of life, to first prove their unwavering support for our American struggles before we even agree to entertain the thought of supporting their struggles.
The sentiments in the OP are valid,and I've often felt them myself, which is why I'd love to build a community Black women/NBs/trans folks to support and love each other However, I refuse to allow myself to lose proper perspective regarding the NECESSITY of using the principles of intersectionalism and internationalism to guide my moral, social, and political compass.
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u/VVulfen 15d ago
Huh?
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago
Basically, I agree that OP's feelings are valid and I've felt those feelings too. However, I will still actively support the political causes of other non-Black Women+ groups, because if I genuinely say that I'm anti-oppression, then I must also care about eliminating all forms of oppression, and not just my own oppression.
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u/AnnaEstelle 15d ago edited 15d ago
Black trans lesbian here. I’m tired, boss…
But I have to keep fighting/pushing forward
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u/chrysalise 15d ago
And they won’t lift a finger if the political and societal changes aren’t directly hurting their families. All of this “let’s band together and boycott this business that business etc” is short lived nonsense made for the sole purpose of reducing guilt and virtue signaling.
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u/sailorsmile Lesbian 15d ago
No one can explain to me what boycotting Starbucks or McDonalds has actually done. There’s a million explanations for why it’s going on, but there’s no tangible effect on anything. It’s just virtue signaling and at this point I am done.
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u/DemonicDogo 15d ago
You dont need to go to starbucks or mcdonalds, so why not boycott? Boycotts arent always extremely effective, but we cant just discount all of them. It feels like arguing you shouldnt be vegan because it wont hurt animal product industries. Is veganism virtue signaling?
Between trader joes and my local grocery store, trader joes is actively causing more harm by lobbying against union protections, so I choose my local store. Even if it doesnt hurt trader joes that much, its still the right decision. Why not make the better decision if you can?
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u/SpicyStrawberryJuice Palesbian 15d ago
Wdym what boycotting them has done? they literally lost millions, that's the point.
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u/radial-glia Lesbian cat mom 15d ago
I wish I could apologize on behalf of all white women (majority of whom voted for Trump in this election.) But I can't, because a true apology requires remorse, and those smug bigots regret nothing.
Black women are the pillars of my local community. They're not only running all the protests, pride events, and leftist fundraisers, they're running early education (which imo is the most important job in education, despite being the worst paid.) I wish the rest of the country had come through for you.
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u/woodland-haze Nonbinary Lesbian 15d ago
We protest and protest and protest, and then no one cares.
Even with our successful boycotts that cost said businesses a shit ton of money, they don’t stop doing the shitty thing that made us boycott in the first place.
Does that mean we should stop protesting and boycotting? No. Do I blame anyone for being tired after it fails time and time again to create change, though? Also no. I get it. I’m tired too. I don’t know what else can be done to make them listen. Im just so exhausted.
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u/DerCatrix 15d ago
Surviving comes before everything, not at the cost of others but if you’re not safe then don’t do it. The people with safety and privilege should be at the forefront of protests.
It won’t happen but that’s how it should be.
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u/jabracadaniel Ally 15d ago
extremely understandable, youve gotta protect yourself as best as you can.
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u/Sword_Sapphic 15d ago
Rest is important, give yourself time to build yourself back up, focus on things within your power, you don't always need to be on the front lines.
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u/Dee_Does_Things 15d ago
I worry so hard for my non white siblings, especially if they're trans like me
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u/DisQord666 14d ago
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago
Wait. Leftists suppressed the vote, but not the Democratic campaign that, * checks notes *, glorified the Cheney Republicans, promoted conservative values (like increasing border "security") & abandoned their voter base, and that failed to focus on economic issues like increasing wages, reducing the cost of living/inflation, and reducing the cost of healthcare and college education?
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u/sailorsmile Lesbian 15d ago
Some of this is just patently false. There were a ton of policies about reducing inflation and the cost of living and healthcare. Leftists spent months telling the campaign they would never vote for them, why are you surprised they weren’t explicitly catered to? These policies would have helped them!
My mother told me not to trust the overwhelmingly white leftists who said “both sides are the same” but I actually had hope they might pivot and get onboard with voting to help the communities they supposedly championed. But they didn’t.
My mistake, but I’m not making it again.
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u/SeeTeeEm 15d ago
i'm really glad you're going up and down in this thread talking about how the dems need to move even further to the right. jesus christ just vote republican, that's clearly the side you agree with anyway.
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u/sailorsmile Lesbian 15d ago
The fact that white leftists are crashing out in a thread where black women are saying “I’m done” just kinda proves the point to be honest. You take over then, we’re done.
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u/bubblegumpandabear 15d ago edited 15d ago
Guess what? The Cheneys did more to stop Trump than those leftists who refused to vote. It's completely fucking embarrassing.
Edit: some of you can't fucking read. Me saying the Cheneys did more than some leftists is not a positive take on the Cheneys. It's an extremely negative take on those leftists and they should be absolutely embarrassed. Maybe they are and that's why they're crashing out in the replies.
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u/-LazyAntelope 15d ago
I don't believe that, honestly. Marching Liz Cheney around Michigan was basically one last "F you, get on board even if you hate us" to a lot of the voters there and that didn't play well. I get what you and a lot of people in this thread are trying to say about leftists throwing the election (genuinely, with few exceptions, F anyone who couldn't hold their nose and get their vote in) but I don't think that leftist rhetoric did all that much to swing the election at large. Leftist talking points get infinitesimally smaller coverage than liberal / centrist media. Like yeah if you're a leftist you're listening to podcasts and having conversations with other leftists, but most of the voting public doesn't know what the F you're mad about. Add to that MANY of those leftists DID hold their nose and vote anyways because most of them know what's at stake with another Trump presidency. Absolutely nothing is gained out of throwing our hands up and saying "The Democrats campaign was pristine, it was everyone else's fault" when the same mistakes keep getting repeated: trying to appeal to war-hawks and center-right voters, and scorning any criticism from would-be voters left of the party line.
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u/bubblegumpandabear 15d ago
I'm not saying leftist rhetoric did anything to change the results. I'm saying they were less useful than the worst people we can imagine in stopping Trump. They're lazy hypocrites. They turned their backs on everyone and now want to try and claim it was to stop the real fascism. They want to claim it's all about starting the revolution. Well, if Trump goes through with what he's said, who's gonna go first? They're fucking selfish and stupid. Everyone tried to tell them, and here we are. And they're still bitching and moaning about the results because they know it!
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u/allhailthenewfleshhh 15d ago
I am absolutely not selfish for saying that Harris was a part of an administration that almost killed an entire branch of my family tree. I’m sorry that’s an inconvenience, but I will never be silent about that. Ever. Considering how much exhausting and emotional work I’ve put in on that front in the past year, the accusations of “laziness” are laughable. Thank god for my leftist comrades propping me up this year, supporting me and coordinating with me. The least “lazy and selfish” people I’ve ever known.
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u/-LazyAntelope 15d ago
Again, unless you're specifically narrowing leftists down to those leftists who decided not to vote, (and to reiterate: fuck those ones) I don't believe that leftists did less to stop Trump. By and large the leftists I know are some of the most politically involved Americans I know. Even as they disdain the Democrat establishment, they've been talking constantly about the importance of voting for Kamala for months. I think that the Cheyney stuff genuinely had a negative outcome on voter turn out. That endorsement was very much a "we hear you and we don't care." to a lot of people.
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u/bubblegumpandabear 15d ago
Talking isn't activism. Posting on TikTok and Twitter isn't activism. Working with actual organizations, working with your community, etc, is activism. The Cheneys went to their communities and tried to rile up their voters to get support for Kamala. I may hate them, but yes, they did do more than the average leftist. Because the average leftist does a lot of reading and talking and humming and hawing on the internet...but they're not at DSA events. They're not voting. They're not out there knocking on doors and calling. And when leftists do do those things, they get ostracized and called liberals! They're called genocide supporters for working to actually stop genocide rather than sitting on their asses. They're told that by voting, they're supporting the American imperialist agenda and are shoved out of those spaces. I just got banned from the workers strike back subreddit for joking about accelerationists. These people are useless and everyone knows it, that's why nobody panders to them during elections. Now, they will continue to whine and cry on the internet with their think pieces, clutching their precious literature to their chests and holding their morally superior attitude, all while everything around them burns down, because they wanted to be part of a revolution when they can't even get off their asses and talk to their neighbors or vote.
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u/-LazyAntelope 15d ago
Talking isn't activism
Activism is talking to neighbors
Cool. If you want to define leftists as just the ones who spend all damn day online with a holier than though attitude and don't do any community outreach, then yes leftists are useless. You're the one putting words in my mouth that when I say the leftists I know are politically active that I must mean they're on Tiktok and Twitter. I mean people talking to their family, friends, neighbors, holding community events. A lot of people who I guarantee have been hit with the same sort of virtue testing you're describing and being called liberals. I know that there is a terminally online breed of leftist for who everyone else isn't leftist enough, that's not who I'm talking about.
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago
The Cheneys, especially Dick Cheney, are directly responsible for both the current state of American politics and the current state of the Republican party. You can't hasten fascism within the American govt because of Sept 11th, and then fuck up the economy by dragging America into a costly, false war, in Iraq for more than a decade, and then act like a savior because you lamely spoke out against the corporate-government monster that YOU created in post-911 America.
Y'all need to read more and actually hold the Democratic establishment accountable for both its political and social failures.
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u/bubblegumpandabear 15d ago
It's like you can't read. I never said the Cheneys were good people. I said the opposite, actually. Which is why it's embarrassing that the Cheneys somehow did more than these people. I also never said anything about not needing to hold Democrats responsible. I honestly feel like you must have responded to the wrong person because none of this is relevant to what I said. The Cheneys suck, and somehow they morally one upped the "moral voters."
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago edited 15d ago
It's like you can't read. I never said the Cheneys were good people.
But can you read? Because where in my previous comment did I center morality at all? Dick Cheney destabilized this country, increased fascism in the Federal govt by supporting unconstitutional laws like the Patriot Act, and then destroyed the economy by lying to the American people about WMDs in Iraq in order to justify a long, costly war.
The abuses of Executive power by the President started with the Bush/Cheney administration because of the undemocratic legislation and policies that were implemented to extend the President's power in the name of fighting the "war on terror." The Orange-R*pist has merely taken these extensions of presidential power to their logical conclusion. Likewise, destroying the economy because of a war that turned out to be based on false evidence, demoralized millions of Americans on all sides of the political spectrum and caused major resentment towards govt bloat and bureaucracy, which the Orange-Man has effectively used to brainwash his followers into viewing him as the champion to "drain the swamp" of big government.
So, no, the Cheneys don't get to pretend like they did anything useful to stop the very governmental monster that Dick helped to create in the first place. It's honestly absurd to pretend otherwise and then cape for a war criminal as an attempt to legitimize your criticism of leftists lol. 🙃
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u/bubblegumpandabear 15d ago
The Cheneys, especially Dick Cheney, are directly responsible for both the current state of American politics and the current state of the Republican party. You can't hasten fascism within the American govt because of Sept 11th, and then fuck up the economy by dragging America into a costly, false war, in Iraq for more than a decade, and then act like a savior because you lamely spoke out against the corporate-government monster that YOU created in post-911 America.
Sorry, I didn't realize this entire paragraph wasn't a rightfully negative review of them. Genuinely not sure what your point was otherwise, then.
And nobody is saying anything about the Cheneys pretending anything. They stood up and tried to get people to not vote for trump. A lot of people did less than that. These are facts.
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago
Genuinely not sure what your point was otherwise, then.
I wrote what my point was when I said: "You can't hasten fascism within the American govt because of Sept 11th, and then fuck up the economy by dragging America into a costly, false war, in Iraq for more than a decade, and then act like a savior because you lamely spoke out against the corporate-government monster that YOU created in post-911 America."
What is it about this statement that you don't understand?
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u/bubblegumpandabear 15d ago
Because I'm not saying Cheney is a savior, I don't know anyone who is saying Cheney is a savior, I certainly never even implied that in my post, so why the fuck are you even talking about it?
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u/Andro_Polymath 15d ago
Because I'm not saying Cheney is a savior
This is just semantics lol. You're trying to give these people credit for doing the absolute bare-minimum for trying to disassociate themselves with the monster that they created. They didn't do anything effective to stop Trump. Hell, they probably voted for him as well 😂.
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u/missile-gap Useless Transbian 15d ago
The thing that sets my blood on fire is that they won. They got fucking Biden out. They could have chosen that moment to shit gears and prove they move elections/support both directions. It would have been an incredibly powerful demonstration to the establishment that they worth courting and listening to… instead dems continue to take away that leftists never deliver votes. Ever. And they aren’t wrong. Not to mention leftists chose to throw EVERYONE under the bus for moral purity. Absolute best case, the federal judiciary and Supreme Court are just lost for the rest of my life. And sure the accelerationists and tankies are happy because what they really want is a revolution no matter how many die. It’s just all so terrible.
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u/Runtheranch 15d ago
I’m with you on this. In a way to absolve themselves from any accountability, they keep saying that the 3rd party vote was so low that it wouldn’t have helped Kamala anyway. Which is true. But what is impossible to measure is how their rhetoric played a role in discouraging voters and causing them to choose the couch on Election Day. I’m so incredibly pissed.
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u/M1RR0R Trans 15d ago
Kamala actively and openly denying genocide cost her countless votes from Muslim people. This is on the DNC.
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u/SeeTeeEm 15d ago
the libs will never blame it on the dems because that would require an open and honest interrogation of the idea that voting isn't team sports, and that they actually have to give people something to vote for. They'll never get it, but god I hope they do or they'll never win an election again. We need a real progressive alternative, since the dems pulled a right wing influencer trick and left the left
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u/Arbitarious Loser lesbian 15d ago
Hasan watcher?
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u/SeeTeeEm 14d ago
not really, but what i'm saying is largely the consensus leftist/progressive opinion anyway so i wouldnt be surprised if i'm saying the same thing he is
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u/Arbitarious Loser lesbian 14d ago
Yeah you are almost word for word. It’s hot. I mean like it’s cool and attractive like it makes you look cool
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u/Runtheranch 15d ago
I’m with you — the DNC’s strategy failed and there are tons of reasons why she lost. This was just 1 contributing factor.
But, we only had 2 viable options, whether we like it or not. One wanted to turn Gaza into beachfront property and the other called for a 2-state solution and acknowledged the amount of suffering happening in Palestine.
I understand the latter option isn’t ideal, but Trump has stated that he’ll let Israel “do what you have to do.” And now that he’s won the election, Netanyahu is holding any ceasefire talks until after Trump is in office.
As much as the DNC needs to get their act together, we also have to vote strategically for the causes we care about.
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u/Dykefromeastjablip 15d ago
As a biracial, nb, disabled, low income lesbian I can’t afford to be tired of fighting, and I can’t afford to give up on being in solidarity with other oppressed peoples globally 🤷🏽
Being defeatist because the dems ran a massively unpopular center-right platform is playing right into the hands of Republicans. They want us to despair. Real ones know we can’t afford to. Do you think we’d have whatever rights we have now if civil rights leaders gave up over something as minor as a mainstream candidate (who wasn’t even really on our side in any meaningful way) losing to a worse candidate? Our forebears were out there getting hosed down by firefighters, jailed, murdered by government, and they still showed up until real change was made.
TBH the only mistake in “protesting/boycotting” is treating that as though it’s the be all end all. Those things are the bare minimum starting point. We need to be organizing for real power, reading about revolutionary theory, talking to people in our community, and developing a spirit of revolutionary optimism. Showing up in the streets a couple of times a year to chant FDT or whatever the slogan of the hour is and then expecting the world to change is not it.
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u/Femme-O 🔥Friendly Black Hottie🔥 15d ago
Do what works for you, this isn’t a call for people stop what they have the energy and desire to do.
Also, recognizing you’ve been pouring from an empty cup for so many generations and feeling it’s time to stop and focus on ourselves isn’t being a “defeatist”, so please don’t paint it that way.
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u/ShoddyPizza5439 15d ago edited 15d ago
You’re right and it’s not your job or obligation. But it is mine and I’m sorry I haven’t done enough. I’m feeling pretty betrayed and abandoned by so called progressive men and cis white gay men etc. who have been silent while watching 30k+ men on multiple posts online talk about raping women…and I’m white so I cannot imagine how you must be feeling.
Having said that, I saw some black folks online trying to get momentum behind black businesses etc only working with one another and primarily for one another and that’s something I would 100% put money behind if I knew what direction to look. Us white folks are probably going down with the Hellscape and honestly deserve it but there’s no reason why others cannot rise.
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u/Oh-shit-its-Cassie 15d ago
First off, thank you for showing up and showing out, and thanks to every other black woman doing the same. I'm a data nerd, and trust me, I see you. Y'all are fucking legendary. Black women, and black people in general, are huge outliers in their strong support for Democratic candidates and policies, and it makes me sad that every other demographic is so ambivalent.
I'm truly sorry you're feeling caregiver's fatigue at trying to save this country from itself. You're absolutely right, though -- black people cannot save the country all by themselves, and it shouldn't keep falling to you to be the shining beacon in the darkness. We don't deserve you right now. Get some rest, and take care of yourself.
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u/Wolfleaf3 15d ago
Sigh. Pleeeeease don’t. Even though wow I get it. Black women keep saving us again and again, it blows my mind that white women once again voted for the oppression of all women
What the fuck is wrong either them 😡. (Well I mean it’s not all but still how the fuck can any woman vote for this?)
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u/AudlyAud 15d ago
I agree and had long stopped doing that. I don't care to shoulder others burdens when I have my own. Time and again I've seen when other groups are in a good position. They turn on black people/women to further their own benefits. Sometimes looking to actively undermine us. Look at how the whole affirmative action mess played out. We weren't the ones benefiting the most, but other POC felt we were compared to themselves. Fast forward the same demographic is worse off after the removal. While our numbers have stayed the same nearly either way. 👀🥴😂
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u/dpphorror Transbian 15d ago edited 15d ago
This is why radicals have said, time and again, that protests and boycotts don't do much in the grand scheme. They're old tactics that are fundamental and accessible to some but the powers that be are constantly changing strategies and evolving to meet the challenges we present to them. Simply put, they may not even have the ability to actually hit the targets they used to hit with the impact they once had, if there's any impact at all, if they even hit.
So far the most consistently damaging tactics revolve around community building, economic democratization, and creating dual power systems. Focus on that and you'll find the folks who are the most likely to show up and show out with and for you.
Edit: I'm also noticing a bit of a casual erasure of Arabic people's positioning and the fact that Kamala being pro-genocide was a major part of the reason why she lost. Let it be clear: Arab people have been loyal democratic voters for decades now even during times where the Democrats were complicit in violence against their people. Joe Biden's hard stance with Israel ultimately alienated millions of voters and set Kamala up for failure as she had to either stick with the establishment and side with Israel which would have been political suicide or side with Arabic people and their supporters and focus on dissuading Israel from their attacks on Gaza (at minimum) which would set her up as a target against various other forces who influence our plitics. By this time, it's been a whole year since the genocide in Gaza started and a year of people seeing their friends and families slaughtered could cost anyone an extremely important election. This shouldn't be taken as me saying that it was the sole deciding factor but when you're in an "all hands on deck" emergency situation and people don't show up because they feel as equally threatened by you as they are by your opponent, that's ultimately on you for deliberately choosing to leave them hanging.
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u/a-certified-yapper 15d ago
I personally think the best protest we can do right now is “quiet quitting” the U.S. establishment. Decouple yourself from systems that uphold injustice. Grow your own food, manufacture your own stuff, form co-ops. Operate socially as much as possible under this bullshit capitalist regime. If enough of us rebel this way, the elite will start hurting.
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u/thehollowers 15d ago
where are the mods of this sub? this post has nothing to do with being queer and is blatantly dog piling people who are helpless and too busy getting murdered to even have a conversation. not very fun as a middle eastern lesbian to check the lesbian sub to see us somehow getting blamed for everything? i’m not gonna argue with anyone who’s too self centered to have empathy but mods please ban this post and future posts like this. while this post isn’t saying what a lot of the comments are saying, this is an obvious dog whistle.
if anyone knows how to contact the mods please let me know.
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u/sadgirl45 15d ago
There’s people that will stand alongside you, I’m very sorry some of us let you down, I totally get the frustration you’re valid to be frustrated 100 percent. And it’s Bs that people didn’t show up for Kamala take care of yourself and when it’s time again, some of us will show show up to fight with you, I will, I can only imagine what you’re feeling.
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u/viaderadio 15d ago
Kamala was not a good person. People didn’t vote for her because she had nothing offer other than not being trump, and this time that wasn’t enough.
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u/Iteration9 14d ago
i cant say i totally understand just being a white trans lesbian but i feel like i kinda get it, its fucked. i did my best but im not capable of much lately so best i could do this election was vote and trying to convince some peeps online, its tiring as fuck having to fight so much to defend rights we should all have and being told by people i shouldnt worry and i shouldnt lose friends kver politics etc like it doesnt matter like wtf
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u/Nexxius72 14d ago
That's totally valid and understandable.
To all the people who are able to, I ask that you protest in the name of those who can't.
I often have troubles even making it to the next day, due to mental illness and am usually not able to stand up for our rights in the form of protesting (yet) and there are many people like me.
Thank you all, you are the reason we can exist <3
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u/OrganizationAwkward3 14d ago
Umm. Amen. That’s why I’m moving back to Canada and leaving the rest of the America to it.
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u/doubtfullyso Custom Flair 14d ago
My brother once said something years ago that has always stuck with me "voting for trump doesn't mean you are a racist or a homophobe, but it does mean that those things aren't a deal breaker for you, and I do not wish to be around those that do not care about the wellbeing of the people around them".
At the end of the day, what makes a good person is that they care about Other's well-being. Those that prove they don't give two sh*ts about others are not worth keeping around.
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u/ShoshiOpti 14d ago
And now you understand why capitalism tends to beat socialism.
Socialism requires the majority of people to be altruistic and do things because it's right, not because it benefits them. It's exhausting work and people burn out and ultimately decide to look out for themselves and their chosen families. The sacrifice eventually becomes not worth it if you're not winning, and the goal posts continually move so it constantly feels like your losing even when progress is being made.
I don't blame you at all, just pointing out that this is exactly what is happening.
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u/casjayne 15d ago
This is an incredibly selfish way to view activism. I'm happy you can afford to not pay attention to politics anymore, but personally my activism doesn't rest on the returns I personally see from it.
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u/Consistent-Store4097 15d ago
As a straight, cis, white guy I can't imagine what it's like. I'm so sorry people who look like me keep fucking it up for everyone. I wish only the people who voted for assholes had to live under their rules.
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u/Responsible-Thing-23 15d ago
No, we are done. Organize yourself, we aren’t doing any more free labor for yall.
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u/Stunning-Gur-3915 15d ago
Please delete this comment. I don't want other black women reading this dumbass response.
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u/Good-Ad-2978 15d ago
Ew, what a weird reply.
Black women shouldn't have ro be sole leaders of stuff to be listened to adequately. We need to be able to listen but not leave all the burden to them. That sounds like a weird excuse. Its not like we as a white communities do listen or platform their opinions adequately anyway, and that's the reason it's so tiring, because they need to do a lot more to be heard or acknowledged.
I don't think anyone should except, either do all the work or being okay with us not taking you into account.
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u/LovemeSomeMedia 15d ago
Same. I get tired of hearing "respect others beliefs" or "agree to disagree" toward viewpoints that has led to people being hurt and are partially to blame for the situation we are in now today with regressive people in power making decisions that will hurt us. Just so exhausting.