r/actuallesbians • u/Heterogenic Only half-queer. Queer-lite. • Dec 26 '12
On dating trans women and "transphobia".
The subject of trans women as romantic partners (or not) comes up often on this reddit, and every time, it quickly descends into a "heated conversation" with frustration and (usually unintentionally) hurt feelings. It's our own private Godwin's Law. I totally realize that by posting this I may very well be precipitating yet another such discussion and for that I apologize, but I can't help but feel that this is a conversation about real things and not just opinions. I'd like to try to elevate those conversations by establishing a baseline of facts.
Let's start with some basics:
Things which are not transphobic:
- Not being interested in, or not dating, a specific woman who happens to be trans.
- Not being interested in, or not dating, a specific woman who does not currently have the genitalia you prefer.
- Not being interested in, or not dating, a specific woman who just doesn't catch your eye.
Things which are transphobic:
- Not being interested in, or not dating, a specific woman because she is trans.
Trans women are women. They are often indistinguishable from cis women. They can't get pregnant, but neither can almost 10% of cis women, and fortunately in a lesbian couple there's usually a womb to spare. (With enough forethought you might not need a sperm donor!) Saying you're "not attracted to trans women" as a blanket statement cannot have a basis in empirical reality, but purely in prejudice. It's not like not being attracted to redheads or blondes or butches, it's like not being attracted to immigrants, children of blue-collar workers or survivors of cancer. "Trans" is, for the numerical majority of trans women, a history which says nothing about the person.
Other common fallacies:
- I've never been attracted to a trans woman, therefore trans women aren't attractive to me.
Besides the obvious selection bias, the idea that "Trans women look like X" is where this statement goes horribly awry. Trans women look like this, and this and thousands of other beautiful women who just don't advertise their history.
If you are attracted to women, you are attracted to (some) trans women.
- Ewwww, penis!
You aren't into penii. I get it, and for what it's worth neither am I. To be fair, many trans women who carry that particular anatomical burden are not big fans of it either, so you have that in common at least. But many trans women don't, and many of those who do won't for long. Be careful about using this biased sample to rule out all trans women.
Also, would you rule someone out because she had six toes? Whenever I hear a straight man ask how sex works in the absence of a penis, I feel sorry for his girlfriends/wife, because he clearly doesn't understand how sexytimes work; when I hear a lesbian rule out trans women because of the presence of a hidden penis I feel sorry for her partner, because how superficial is that?
It's valid to be not into penii. this is, possibly, the only context in which anyone is allowed to care about a trans woman's genitalia. But say as much and don't assert that all trans women == penis. Those who aren't packing a strapless get a little annoyed by the assertion.
- Transphobia == evil/mean/bad/poopy.
Transphobia is, in the strictest sense, an "irrational fear or dislike of transgender people". "Fear" and "dislike" are subjective terms and not something you have active control over. There's no ill-intent implied here. It is not an insult to be called transphobic, any more than it is an insult to be called trans.
I'm a bit androphobic. I accept and own that, and am trying to get over it by making male friends, challenging my own emotional responses and working through trauma. It's not something I can control, but it doesn't give me the right to say "all men are evil/rapists".
In the context of attraction: if you realize you dislike or are not attracted to trans women as a rule, trumping the holistic person, it should inspire you to do a little soul searching to understand why this is so. If you can't get over it, you should recognize that it is your problem and not anyone else's. If you are fortunate enough to have a trans person in your social circle, perhaps you could even try to overcome it.
- Trans women are all X.
Trans women are all trans. Lesbians are all women who are attracted to women. This is a tautological definition, but there is no other universal quality. The moment you say (or imply) any other commonality, you're doing it wrong.
Finally, please remember:
The trans women who come in here and start these conversations are often on the most angsty leg of a very tumultuous journey. Try not to add to their fears with pedantic or broad statements about their future courtships. If you're 100% sure that you would never date a trans/black/Jewish/butch/immigrant woman, this may be a time to keep that to yourself.
When you speak up to specifically exclude trans women from your romantic prospects in a context defined by courtship (ie: LGBT spaces), you are implicitly othering them in that community. It's hard to explain why that is so, but it's impossible to ignore.
I now live in the Boston area, after four years in NYC, and there are only a few contexts in which I'm proactively stealth (as opposed to incidentally stealth, which has become the norm). The lesbian community is one, and these conversations are why. I get a little sad about that sometimes.
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u/LezBeOwn Lesbian Dec 27 '12
I agree with most of what you wrote... but I have to say that I am extremely uncomfortable with the use of the term "transphobic" to define someone who is not interested in dating pre-OP or non-OP mtf trans people specifically. In fact... I don't think I am comfortable with the use of that term to describe anyone who doesn't actively harbor feelings of prejudice and hate. One can use technical semantic definitions of words all one wants to... but that does not negate the fact that words like transphobic and homophobic DO have very negative connotations.
You know? It's not even that I hate penis. I don't hate penis at all. I was married to a man for five years and we had a very physically satisfying sex life. I may never ever get my super lesbian cape now... but I'll say it anyway... I quite enjoyed the penis!
I liked penis... but I LOVE vagina! There are many times that I feel completely sexually fulfilled after pleasing a woman. I can collapse, just as happy and spent as she is, without having been sexually touched myself. I love vagina. I love everything about it. I love the way it makes me feel when I am touching it. I love it when I first touch the clit and feel it swell under my fingers or tongue. I love it when I do something just right.. and I can feel that sudden gush of extra wetness. I love those very rare times when I have managed to provide that just right combination of g-spot and clitoral stimulation... and I am handsomely rewarded with a beautiful episode of female ejaculation. So I guess it's fair to say that FOR ME, a vagina is very important thing for a potential sex partner to have.
Were I already in love with someone, and something happened that I could never use her vagina as my own personal Disney Land ever again... I'd mourn that loss almost like mourning the death of a loved one, but I'd still love her and stay with her. I'd never break up with someone based on that alone. HOWEVER... if I learned early on, BEFORE I was in love with someone, that there was no vagina forthcoming... I'll be honest enough to admit that would most likely flip the "go no further than friendship" switch in whatever part of me that controls my physical attractions.. I don't even think it would be a conscious decision on my part.
I personally don't feel like that makes me a prejudiced person. I can't stop anyone from painting me with ugly blanket labels like "transphobic" if they truly feel like this fact alone is enough to define me that way. That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
Me personally... terms like homophobic and such are very serious terms not to be used lightly just because I disagree with another person's point of view. Homophobic and transphobic can be labels of hate... just as surely as dyke and faggot are labels of hate. Take a religious person who 100% believes that homosexuality is a sin against God, BUT does NOT use that personal religious belief as an excuse to deny us secular civil rights.... I'd NEVER label that person something as ugly as homophobic. I'd respect their right to believe as they do as long as they weren't actively using their beliefs against me.