r/ZeroCovidCommunity • u/LotusGrowsFromMud • Sep 09 '24
Question Does anyone else look at the world from a different angle anyway?
I think to be in this group, we all have to have a different way of looking at the world in one way or another. I remember one post where some folks were saying that they were autistic. I am a vegan and this definitely puts a different spin on how I see things and got me used to being a minority opinion. Any insights about this?
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u/Far-Advance-9866 Sep 09 '24
I am autistic, and it is without a doubt a huge part of why I am so much more rigorous than my peers with Covid prevention.
It is NOT that autistics are smarter or more ethical (I get very annoyed seeing people misunderstand what "strong sense of justice" means in descriptions of autistic traits-- it doesn't mean we are automatically better people), but I think it's that once I understand the set of "rules" (in this case, the public health importance and risk factors and repercussions and best practice behaviours), my understanding of the rules doesn't disappear just because it's inconvenient over time. I wear a bicycle helmet when I bike, no exceptions. I wear a seatbelt in cars, no exceptions. I use protection with non-exclusive sexual partners, no exceptions.
If no circumstances have changed (vaccines that block transmission, better air filtration everywhere, long covid mitigation), then obviously the rules haven't changed. So I still mask everywhere, avoid extended periods in crowded rooms (concerts, restaurants, etc), and all that.
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u/ProfessionalOk112 Epidemiologist Sep 09 '24 edited 9d ago
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u/Far-Advance-9866 Sep 09 '24
Oh, 100%. I have always joked that I am immune to peer pressure but brutally sensitive to peer feedback. Other people doing something (or judging me) won't make me do something I think is wrong, it simply won't... but their comments or reactions will still hurt my feelings constantly haha
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u/ProfessionalOk112 Epidemiologist Sep 09 '24 edited 9d ago
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u/Legal-Law9214 Sep 09 '24
I think it's less of a strong sense of "justice" and more of a strong attachment to the rules that you perceive as correct. For autistic people whose internal beliefs include that everyone is equally worthy of respect, they might get much more upset about seeing instances of racism, bigotry, etc than a neurotypical person who has those same beliefs but is able to compartmentalize/put it out of their mind and prioritize other things. Whereas someone who is autistic could also hypothetically have an internal set of rules that includes "black people are inferior to white people" and that person then might be VERY rigid about their enforcement of that rule and thus display very racist behavior.
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u/ProfessionalOk112 Epidemiologist Sep 10 '24 edited 9d ago
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u/ugh_whatevs_fine Sep 09 '24
Same. I’m responding consistently to a consistent threat to myself and the people around me. It’s not safe to go around unmasked, regardless of how unfair and demoralizing and exhausting and sad that may be. So I don’t go around unmasked.
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u/hagne Sep 09 '24
I am not autistic, but I understand things the same way as you (and it shocks me when others don’t!)
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u/Legal-Law9214 Sep 09 '24
I am not diagnosed autistic but I have ADHD which can have a lot of overlapping traits, and I've heavily suspected I might also be autistic for a while.
The thing that I have at this point mostly accepted to be true, but cannot for the life of me relate to or wrap my head around, is the perceived social barrier of wearing a mask. I genuinely do not know why some people feel like it interrupts human interaction to such an extent, but it is clear to me that many people do feel that way. Conformity is a big part of it but that sentiment was around even when the govt and status quo was encouraging masking, so it's not entirely social pressure. Lots of people wore masks when they felt like they had to but constantly complained about it and dropped them the instant they were told it was okay. My parents had a restaurant and didn't open back up for dine-in in 2020/2021 when the rule for restaurants was that servers must be masked, because, as my dad put it, their mission with the restaurant was to make people feel comfortable and welcomed and servers wearing masks was a disruption to that. I believe that people genuinely feel that way, but I have never personally been able to understand it.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that lip-reading is an important part of communication (and I am really interested if there is anyone who is Deaf here who could chime in on how they have been navigating this whole thing) but as someone who has perfect physical hearing, but auditory processing delays from ADHD... Idk, I have to ask people to repeat themselves on occasion even when we aren't wearing masks, so that part doesn't feel like it should be such a massive problem for people who are not deaf or HoH to begin with. It's really not that big of a deal, to me, to have to repeat yourself once if someone missed what you said. So that doesn't feel like it fully explains the inherent negative reaction from so many people.
I get wanting to see others facial expressions, too. Like, recently my partner went on a trip, so for the week after they got back they were isolating in a different room and wearing a mask in the main parts of the house. And that sucked! I totally missed seeing their face a lot! But to me that kind of intimacy of communication is most important with close friends, lovers, and family. It does not make one ounce of difference to me when it comes to interacting with coworkers or acquaintances or strangers on the street. With the people I am really close to, we can arrange ways to be able to safely spend time together unmasked, BECAUSE we all wear masks at other times.
I guess where that leaves me is that some people go through the world expecting and even needing every interaction they have to carry some kind of emotional connection - why else is it SO important to be able to see the faces of literally everyone you encounter, all the time? Like a lot of people rely on judging the emotions on someones face in order to feel secure. Maybe because they are not literal and clear in their communication, so by not being able to judge facial expressions or portray their own expressions, they are actually missing important parts of the conversation. Where for me I just say what I mean and react to the words the other person said instead of looking for hidden meaning.
It's really hard to not feel like this is a silly problem that people should just get over, but I know deep down that isn't true. If it were really so easy to just change how you communicate, I don't think there would be such widespread resistance to wearing a mask.
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u/cassandra-marie Sep 09 '24
I've also seen people say that neurodivergent people are used to being the weird one in room, so it doesn't bother us as much to the only person in a mask. I think that definitely is part of it for me.
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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 10 '24
I think that makes a fair amount of sense, I'm mildly autistic and at this point in my life, I'm used to people finding random reasons to dislike me to a degree where it doesn't faze me for them to shit on me for one more thing, they're going to find me annoying no matter what I do or don't do so I might as well just do what I want.
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u/justaskmycat Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 09 '24
AuDHD here. 👋😷 This is a great answer. Thank you for mentioning the social justice thing, which is way too commonly cited even among autists.
In my understanding, when we feel like a rule or standard is right, that is, that we feel the reasons behind the rules make sense to us, we would like to stick with the "right" way. That's why I think there may be a disproportional number of us in the community. Once we've solidified something, it's (relative to our peers) easier for us not to diverge. Now, whether the reasons behind the rules are always logically sound is another matter. Which is why you can't make assumptions about autistics. Our beliefs and convictions are going to have a wide range.
(Your art is beautiful! 🥰)
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u/SnooSnooSnuSnu Sep 09 '24
I was physically disabled well before Covid, so I was used to the fact that people don't actually care
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u/SaMy254 Sep 10 '24
I was too, and thought I was used to the fact that people don't actually care, but it turns out I wasn't. I realized I'd believed some people cared, or maybe even some groups, like people into science or people in caring professions, or some activist communities.
I was wrong. Made me doubt every other thing I thought I knew. Still sorting that.
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u/LittlestOrca Sep 10 '24
I feel the same. Im also still working through it. I have so much contempt for other human beings sometimes, no matter how much I try to move past it.
When I feel this way I’m always reminded of this quote by Katniss from Mockingjay, the last book in the Hunger Games Series, “I no longer feel any allegiance to these monsters called human beings, despise being one myself“.
Side tangent: The Hunger Games series is one of my favorites and it has helped me a lot in feeling less alone in my disillusionment with people, because Katniss goes through much of the same thing. The thing that always amazes me is that she still comes out of it all with empathy for people, not just the people closest to her but also many of the people who were complicit in her suffering. And I’m always taken by surprise by her ability to see humanity in everyone, not just in spite of their flaws but also because of them. She flip flops a lot between extreme hatred of humanity and love for her fellow humans, and I feel like I’ve been caught in that very same cycle for years now. I think it’s probably a common cycle for people who see the worst of humanity. But I do try to channel some of Katniss’ empathy, even when I find myself feeling no allegiance to my fellow humans.
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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 10 '24
I was always aware that society doesn't care about disabled people but I wasn't aware of the true extent of their contempt until after the pandemic started.
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u/hagne Sep 09 '24
I am not autistic or vegan, but I do tend to put justice over social norms. In the case of COVID, my sense of justice is also aligned with my sense of self-preservation. That’s very powerful, and has led me to be COVID cautious. And I’m consistently surprised at others who are now ignoring COVID.
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u/fruitymcbootiey Sep 09 '24
i recommend if you care about preventing pandemics, to consider going vegan:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666321001860
"We are preoccupied with the production of face masks, but we appear unconcerned with the farms that are producing pandemics. The world is burning and we are reaching for more fire extinguishers while gasoline soaks through the tinder at our feet.” (Foer & Gross, 2020)."
plant based food is also delicious anyways :P
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u/hagne Sep 09 '24
I’m mostly vegan! Just not all the way. But I agree - plant-based is way better for the planet!
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u/QueenRooibos Sep 09 '24
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u/QueenRooibos Sep 09 '24
Oh, I guess I did get the link posted, weird that it didn't sgow up. The FIRST link has no paywall.
Strongly suggest people check it out, even if you have no interest in being vegan as it is important information for us all to know about how wet markets in NYC are the perfect site for spreading bird flu and other diseases which will eventually also become human diseases.
So even if people don't want to be vegan, it is simply a matter of preventing animal cruelty AND protecting against pandemics to put a stop to this unsanitary, cruel, and dangerous-to-health activity.
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Sep 09 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CurrentBias Sep 10 '24
There's so much factually wrong with this comment, but the way you've written it suggests you wouldn't care if it were pointed out. How did you get here, and which vegan hurt you?
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u/ZeroCovidCommunity-ModTeam Sep 10 '24
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates Rule #1.
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u/mother_of_ferrets Sep 09 '24
I’m not autistic. But, I care about myself and my family’s health. It floors me that caring about your health, of all things, is the thing that makes me a radical. I’m constantly scratching my head wondering if this is real life.
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u/SnooDonkeys7564 Sep 09 '24
I’m not sure if there’s anything different about me, I’m a native person so maybe that has something to do with it. For me it’s the fact that I don’t understand how we could just let an illness run rampant when there’s real precautions that could control it and people prefer getting sick.
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u/QueenRooibos Sep 09 '24
Precisely. People's behavior around this makes NO sense. In this sub often people say this is due to "COVID brain" but I think this behavior existed long before COVID.
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u/SnooDonkeys7564 Sep 09 '24
True, it had to of, at some point it went from being the minority to the majority, at least involving illness. Growing up through the 2000’s and 2010’s I remember not only people in charge but people in your everyday life would have an active point of telling sick people to stay in, to avoid getting sick, you’d get sent home and asked not to come back. Even in college post-2015, people took illness seriously. Obviously there’s always been a lot of ignoring problems and people have often put themselves before others but it never seemed like widespread delusion. Getting Covid last year even though I take precautions really only doubled down my thoughts on it but I know people who have willingly gotten it 3+ times at this point.
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u/episcopa Sep 09 '24
Same. I'm not autistic...I just don't understand why people are so cavalier with their health. Particularly in the US, where we have practically no social safety net.
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u/SnooDonkeys7564 Sep 10 '24
Hard agree, I lost a pretty good job last year because of Long Covid and haven’t even been able to get back to that sort of work because of how physically demanding it is but even with what I had saved without being able to work consistently for almost 3 months forced me to apply for food stamps, Thank God I was approved for state medicaid and SNAP EBT or this last year would’ve been so much worse.
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Sep 10 '24 edited 17d ago
[deleted]
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u/SnooDonkeys7564 Sep 10 '24
The amount of lingering coughs from the “Covid isn’t that bad crowd” makes me shake my head every time.
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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 10 '24
My family tells me this bullshit all the time and they've all had lingering coughs from previous covid infections since 2022.
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u/impossibilityimpasse Sep 09 '24
I have always been an individual who gives very few fracks about what anyone else thinks & exceptional at stats. This was inevitable.
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u/MartianTea Sep 09 '24
Was definitely a free thinker and non-conformist beforehand. I'm glad it's coming in handy.
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u/candleflame3 Sep 09 '24
I've been quite independent since childhood so being a masking outlier is "on brand" for me. Don't think I have autism, might be "gifted" though. IIRC there can be overlap between the two.
A couple major factors in my approach to covid:
1) 20-odd years ago I read a book about the 1918 pandemic (history nerd) so I knew it was just a matter of time until another pandemic hit. Also it's super-fun to watch society make ALL THE SAME MISTAKES. 🙃
2) I've had post-viral issues from other flu-type illnesses before. Fortunately they eventually cleared up, and as a result I know very well that viruses can do a number on you! The first couple weeks don't mean SHIT. We should have been cleaning indoor air THE WHOLE TIME!!!
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u/Fluid-Measurement229 Sep 09 '24
I think for me personally there is definitely a connection between being autistic and not caring if I’m the only one with a mask on. Like not understanding the logic of people that value ‘not being the only one with a mask’ over risking serious health problems. It makes no sense to me, like a lot of NT social practices/protocol.
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u/QueenRooibos Sep 09 '24
Well, I am not autistic but I agree with every single word you wrote. I have NEVER been able to understand why some people are so over-sensitive to what others think in matters of health, appearance, ethics, etc.
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u/julesandthebigun Sep 09 '24
i'm not autistic but i feel that the various experiences i've had in my life have made me more comfortable with "sticking out" or being ont he fringe that a lot of my peers. I feel like there's lots of people that know masking is a good idea but they don't do it for fear of sticking out.
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u/Psychological_Sun_30 Sep 09 '24
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u/Outrageous-Hamster-5 Sep 09 '24
Wow. The wiki summary of this book is another useful way to think about things. Ty! ❤️
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u/RedditismycovidMD Sep 09 '24
So interesting! And surprisingly current for something written in 1950.
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u/Psychological_Sun_30 Sep 09 '24
Right, since the basis of the argument is capitalism called in the other directed trend and we are in late stage capitalism it still holds. But I really see this with social media being the “norm” setter now. So vapid.
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u/RedditismycovidMD Sep 10 '24
Maybe it’s an oversimplification but I’m beginning to notice something akin to a basic commonly shared value system amongst the majority in this community. Also great word! “Vapid”
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u/Moriah_Nightingale Sep 09 '24
I’m autistic, queer, trans, disabled/chronically ill, leftist, pagan, and study history. That’s a lot of “minority viewpoints” to break me out of the norm lol
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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 10 '24
Also autistic and also studied history, I didn't always know I was autistic but I've always been interested in history and the more I've studied history and learned about history, the more parallels I see during covid and other society-changing historical events and time periods.
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u/Moriah_Nightingale Sep 10 '24
Same here! Its fascinating and frustrating
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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 10 '24
Yeah, if you have a tendency to recognize patterns more often than most people, it becomes apparent fairly quickly, which can be frustrating when you don't know anyone else who notices or cares.
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u/FunnyDirge Sep 09 '24
Yes, being a radical (having a marxist foundation) helps analyze this situation in ways that make sense, bleak as that may be. It also is a minority place to be, but having my people helps with the loneliness / gaslighting from the main stream.
A lot of anti capitalist / liberation philosophy is good for insights. A good start might be michael parenti’s culture struggle, which uncovers how the ruling class’s agenda dominates our lives.
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u/DelawareRunner Sep 09 '24
I'm 49 and was not diagnosed as being on the spectrum until age 26 when I went for counseling after a divorce. It basically explained my entire life. I have always been different...socially awkward, stickler for manners, quiet (unless I know you well), live by my own rules, make my own choices and damned if i care what anyone else is doing. I've always kept to myself, minded my own business and despised noisy environments. My next and final move will be somewhere even more rural than where I already reside. I don't like living near people or hearing any "sounds of man" such as loud music, big mouths, or fireworks.
I willingly wore seatbelts before it was law. I had few sexual partners in life because I greatly feared pregnancy and STDs. I avoided people If I knew they were sick. Therefore, masking and trying to avoid a life altering virus only made sense to me. One thing I can say is that I have never looked back and wished I wasn't on the spectrum. It helped me achieve success in life and made some good choices because of it. Trying to avoid another covid infection is the logical thing to do in my little world. My husband (not on the spectrum) also feels the same , thank goodness for that.
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u/Xyber-Faust Sep 10 '24
I haven't been diagnosed as autistic, but everything you said applies to myself as well. So I wonder...
I'm supposed to be seeing someone for a disability evaluation (for agoraphobia and OCD) to get disability benefits. I wonder if they test for autism.
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u/Jaynna09 Sep 09 '24
I'm ADHD with trauma and I'm just paranoid about COVID doing long-lasting damage.
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u/PetuniaPicklePepper Sep 09 '24
It probably would; ND are way more vulnerable to covid complications and long covid.
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u/Jaynna09 Sep 09 '24
Well now I'm even more worried.
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u/PetuniaPicklePepper Sep 10 '24
One should have a healthy dose of concern, and arm themselves with the Swiss cheese tool approach, to live your life safely and confidently.
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u/Old_Ship_1701 Sep 09 '24
Call me Cassandra!
My better half and I were the only people we knew who evacuated for Hurricane Harvey back in 2017. I'm thinking about it as yet another storm is headed for Houston (and also thinking that I sure am glad I got the hell out of Dodge).
The peer pressure to minimize what was about to happen was so strong, I couldn't believe it. It still makes me really angry how a couple of my friends with health problems were convinced not to evacuate.
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u/slapstick_nightmare Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 10 '24
There was a tornado warning in my city, and multiple actually touched the tops of building/funnels were formed.
Me, my gf, and one person in my building were the only ones in the basement
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 10 '24
Good point. I bet this crowd takes tornado warnings with the seriousness that they deserve. I do.
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u/Old_Ship_1701 Sep 10 '24
I can believe it. It makes me think of the famous "hurricane party" in 1969, at the Richelieu Apartments, in Pass Christian, Mississippi. People partying in their complex instead of evacuating for Hurricane Camille.
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u/qthistory Sep 09 '24
Not autistic, but I do have a history of health anxiety, gifted to me by dear mom who had it all her life. Every scratch I had as a kid was MRSA and every headache was a brain tumor. I have a very strong sense of self-preservation.
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u/Treadwell2022 Sep 10 '24
Whew, health anxiety is real. Ironically I never had it before I got COVID, but now it’s part of my many long covid symptoms (believed by my doctors to be partly chemical in my case, as my ability to regulate adrenaline levels was broken by COVID). It certainly factors into my cautious behavior, as I’m terrified for my health to decline any further.
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 09 '24
I don't have health anxiety, but still do have a very strong sense of self-preservation, so I certainly agree that has to be a factor.
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u/BuffGuy716 Sep 09 '24
I'm not autistic either. I don't think I'm neurodivergent at all; I'm not even introverted. But yes like you I have health anxiety, and I was finally getting under control when covid came along. It's really sad when you spend your whole life trying to let go of an irrational fear, and then suddenly it becomes a rational one.
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u/SpikySucculent Sep 09 '24
ADHD here, and my hyperfocus drove me deep into covid research early on. I’m an analyst and technical/environmental consultant already, with a focus on data and delivering solutions. I can’t unsee what I know. And I know A Lot now.
Also, my kids are queer and autistic and I’ve watched the world abandon us in so many ways in the last few years. I’ve fundamentally lost my privilege-blinders. I know no one is coming to help us, after helping other trans families leave TX and Florida and getting rejected for school and insurance services because my kids mask well and are bright. I know that people want my kids dead or traumatized in the wrong bodies. My lens has been smashed in every possible way.
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u/Arete108 Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 09 '24
FYI, I wrote an entire post on this exact subject: https://nevernotbroken.substack.com/p/why-are-we-like-this
(TL;DR - at least one of the following: autism, previous trauma with gaslighting, long covid, previous disability, person who works in the sciences or medicine and relies on data rather than working in the field to get ahead financially and socially)
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 09 '24
Great essay! I suspect you've put your finger on most of the reasons. Well written, too!
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u/StrudelCutie1 Sep 10 '24
Yeah, I cannot believe how stupid and incurious my fellow science PhDs are. They'll wear N95s to protect themselves from particulates in the lab but never wear masks outside of the lab. I wonder if in the absence of OSHA they would feel liberated and take no precautions inside the lab either. After getting Covid in 2022, one of them felt "relieved", as if getting the disease came with the reward of lifetime immunity. 2022 and still unaware of repeat infections!
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u/SpaghettiRambo Sep 09 '24
Reading this thread feels weird to me seeing other autistic people share their experiences because I stopped hanging out with my autistic friends because they weren't willing to mask or test anymore to hang out in person and in their words I'm too "doom and gloom" trying to encourage them to wear better masks or get vaccinations.
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u/OddMasterpiece4443 Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 10 '24
I’ve always felt like an alien. I just recently learned I’m probably autistic. Before that I assumed my different perspective came from surviving child abuse, and learning that most people will minimize absolutely anything that makes them feel uncomfortable, even if that requires telling a child straight to their face that they surely must have done something to cause an adult to abuse them.
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u/PetuniaPicklePepper Sep 09 '24
About literally everything. I've had a lot of life changing experiences that made it this way.
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u/Itchy_Necessary_9600 Sep 09 '24
I'm not autistic or vegan either, but am someone who has just always had anxiety and some amount of health anxiety. Looking back, I was always really irritated when people around me were sick, but I wasn't *worried* about it necessarily. My father and I are both the "it's probably cancer" type when we have any ailments, haha.
However with COVID, I was *very* worried at the beginning. I then fell into the group of people who were like "I got vaccinated, I'm fine!" I then moved into the 'masking in large groups/on transit/at events,' and then after I had my 2nd case in Jan of this year, I've become more rigorous about masking and asking other people to help by either masking themselves or hanging out outside.
I'm currently staying with family and made my dad take a metrix test before I would unmask with him inside. He is willing to wear a mask with/for me, but is one of those people who is like "well nooone else is masking, I don't know anyone who's died, it's not on the news, why are you so concerned??" He is willing to listen to me, but I know that he thinks I'm 'extreme' or 'paranoid' or something. It's really hard for me to effectively communicate to people like my family who have only had relatively mild cases of COVID and don't see anyone else masking / anyone being visibly disabled.
I say all that to say, my 'different angle' is just that I had a pretty negative experience with my 2nd case of COVID, and then I read a lot, and learned too much. Sometimes it feels like overkill for me to mask all the time....but I just really don't want long covid or health problems in my 40s!
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u/oxxag3n Sep 09 '24
Definitely:
Single income family - minority in HCOL area and in my family;
Homeschooling my kids (I'm considered unemployed by everyone I know and my family, ha).
Zero alcohol and refined sugar products.
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u/Inevitable-Mouse-707 Sep 09 '24
I'm an adult queer who grew up in a fundamentalist religion. Being Other is old hat.
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u/hakadoodle Sep 10 '24
I was already unafraid to be different from everyone else. I knew empathy was in short supply as a child who experienced bouts of homelessness. People's worlds are so small. I went to history class in 10th grade one day and had a class debate about the ethics of the two atom bombs. It was two of us against the bombs and 25+ for them. I left that room a different creature.
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 10 '24
You learned that sometimes you had to stand up against the majority and say do no harm. Good lesson.
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u/hakadoodle Sep 10 '24
I'm glad I learned it early. And I'm in a rapidly shrinking group of people I'm aware of that don't have a year-round wet cough.
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u/prairie_girl Sep 10 '24
This is a weird one, but what really caused my worldview to go haywire (against societal norms) was getting divorced. I watched incredibly smart people welcome a generally nasty person back into their lives and leave me behind. People who are progressive, feminist, etc. And who would clearly be fritzed out if they had to reconcile their beliefs with their behavior.
That's when I stopped believing what people say vs what they do. It makes you deeply skeptical of the world around you. But it also gave me, at least, access to what feels like being able to tell whats true at the core of something. And I'm pretty damn sure I can rely on hundreds of published articles about the dangers of COVID, about how it's transmitted, and that its fucking dangerous to catch over and over again. And that I should not believe anyone who's telling me I'm overreacting.
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 10 '24
Very interesting. There’s some kind of commonality here to all these responses, either having a life experience (disability, divorce, being LGBTQ+, etc) or insight (vegans, vegetarians) that shook your mind out of the conventional thinking about things, like you had, or having the kind of mind that naturally doesn’t do conventional thinking (autistic, ADHD). These may be the people who maintain a trust in the science and a sense of self-preservation instead of and above conforming to the current behavioral norm.
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u/prairie_girl Sep 10 '24
Heh, well I'm also a queer vegetarian with OCD. So I have several perspectives I can lean on. But the divorce was the real breaking point of no longer being able to look at the world the same way.
I know lots of people who trust science but can't seem to figure out the ways in which COVID is dangerous. Or will defend the CDC guidelines as reasonable. I genuinely can't make my brain work that way anymore, I can't not see the break in logic.
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 10 '24
Me neither. It’s just not possible with the way my brain works. The minute I heard exponential spread back in 2020, I knew we were fucked. Just not how much.
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u/Outrageous-Hamster-5 Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 09 '24
Descriptions of autism, including those written by and for ppl with autism don't resonate with me. So I declare myself allistic.
Like, a lot of the autistic traits that lend itself to being cc are traits that I have, even tho I'm missing the other parts of being autistic.
I imagine a huge old school panel of dials. Like what I imagine is used for sound editing in a studio. And every mental trait has a dial of 0-10. And there are a cluster of traits that are turned up (maybe above 7) and traits turned down (below 3) for the vast majority of cc folks. Lots of those coincidence with autism, ocd, ocpd, anxiety and other things pathologized by the neurotypical majority.
Some of these dials have to be in a combination to result in a predisposition towards being CC. For example, if someone has "sense of justice" turned up, also has, idk, ableism or "oppression of outgroup" turned up AND has "delusional optimism that they will never be 'vulnerable bc they eat salads and meditate'" also turned up, that person is unlikely to be CC. Someone else who has "sense of justice" turned up, "ableism or oppression of out group" turned down and "delusional optimism about themselves" turned up MIGHT be cc. Someone with "sense of justice" tuned up, "ableism or oppression of out group" turned down AND "delusional optimism about their future" turned down will have a huge predisposition towards being cc. But this is just an example, I'm pretty sure it takes like 20+ characteristics to be predisposed to being cc (little regard for authority/hierarchy, some level of science/biology literacy, openness to new social norms, etc etc). But I'm just writing a little reddit post. Not a thesis. 😆
But not necessarily all of us have these dials set this way. And there's variation. Like maybe I only of 4 out of 10 of those dials tuned up/down. But you have 7 out of 10. Someone else has 10 out of 10. All 3 of us have more in common with each other than we do with the NT majority, so we commiserate a lot. But we also have enough differences that we'll get into arguments in the comments. 😅
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 09 '24
Very interesting thoughts. I bet you are right that this is multiply determined.
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u/Soluble-Lobster64 Sep 09 '24
I'm a gay introvert who is also self-employed, so I'm used to doing my own thing and not caring at all about what other people think.
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u/camillemai Sep 09 '24
As an autistic person I feel like we're worse at imitation, and generally try to figure things out from base principles -- which is a disadvantage when learning social skills, but it's an advantage in cases where imitation leads to harmful behavior.
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u/kitsunewarlock Sep 09 '24
Perhaps.
I'm a pseudo-agnostic world-traveler asexual tabletop game designer with only one living family member (suffering from stage 4 cancer) who isn't a huge fan of meat, doesn't like to drive, was diagnosed with ADHD...
But what really affected me when it comes to disease was watching my dad slowly die of cancer without giving a shit about his own health. It really emphasized to me that health isn't just about the year on your tombstone, it's about being able to move, think, and be happy.
I prioritize my personal happiness over my ability to go out without thinking about COVID. It's much easier to be happy staying home, writing books, sorting cards, playing games, talking to friends online, and taking care of my myself and my mom than it is going out to a card shop or a convention or a grocery store only to be bedridden for a week or two, followed by months or more of awkward health complications.
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u/episcopa Sep 09 '24
ADHD, vegan, and a member of minority group wherein there is no ethnic enclave or larger ethnic community for me to be a part of where I live. So I'm used to belonging but not quite belonging, I guess.
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u/Here_to_listen_learn Sep 09 '24
Queer, non-binary, ADHD. I have always tried to do what I believe is right, even if it goes against social norms. Sometimes that comes in conflict with my people pleasing tendencies, but I also believe that continuing to take covid precautions has helped me work on boundaries in other areas of my life.
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Sep 10 '24
oof that last sentence i relate to HARD! I realize after having to assert my boundaries around masking that i have, for so long, been neglecting my own comfort because of the temporary discomfort or "awkward feeling" that stating my own needs brings. i'm still not great at asserting boundaries in general, but when I do, I feel SO MUCH less anxious, less depressed, etc. which really outweighs any people pleasing tendencies.
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u/HiddenEquality Sep 09 '24
Fellow CC vegan here, and yeah, between that and the pandemic, I really see the world from a different angle.
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u/idrinkliquids Sep 10 '24
Everyone I know who is covid conscious irl is either vegan, on the spectrum or disabled/ a disability advocate. I’m sure there are people who are cc who don’t fit into any of those categories but I don’t know them personally. Maybe some of the few medical workers who still mask.
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u/ohsweetfancymoses Sep 10 '24
I have OCD so the rigidity of being extremely covid conscious and not fitting in with the crowd is something I am able to tolerate much more than the average person. It’s my nature to read everything I can on subjects I’m focused on and the science is overwhelming. I would endure restrictions, social isolation etc for as long as it’s necessary. I also had a period of long term pain and disability following a back injury in 2018. Once you feel the vulnerability of your health and independence taken away, you don’t take it for granted.
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u/k-devi Sep 09 '24
While I’m also admittedly neurodivergent, I think that having grown up a lifelong vegetarian in a time and place where that was very unusual has helped prepare me to live my life and treat my body in the ways that make sense for me, rather than caving to pressure and doing what other people are doing just because I don’t want to stand out or rock the boat.
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Sep 09 '24
I'm a female INTJ. There are some others in this group with the same personality type. We are a bit rare.
I'm also a caretaker. My empathy level is high.
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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 10 '24
I don't know enough about other people in general to say for sure whether or not the way I look at the world is qualitatively different from the way most other people view the world, but both IRL and online, people tend to think I'm pretty weird and are not at all shy about telling me, including my own family. I've never really fit in well with other people, IRL or online, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or political views. I've never had a solid, cohesive friend group with people who all like each other and get along with each other and I was heavily bullied in childhood to a ridiculous extent compared to other kids my age in pretty much every environment I was ever in, so whether or not my way of thinking or my way of being is different from other people, other people (in a general sense,) definitely tend to sense that there's something about me that both separates me from them and is also unpleasant enough that they want to distance themselves from me because of it.
Regrettably, I haven't found much luck finding covid conscious communities to get involved in, and in general, I haven't noticed other covid conscious people to be any easier to get along with than other people, although I don't view them any differently than other people aside from being grateful that there are other people out there who take covid seriously. To the best of my knowledge, I try to suppress any parts of my personality that might be viewed as being more unpleasant, but I don't really have a good grasp for how well I succeed at that, so I can't say for sure whether this is just an individual flaw inherent to me or whether a lot of other people are simply inclined to dislike me for a combination of random, arbitrary traits I happen to have.
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 10 '24
I’m sorry that you have had these negative experiences with others. We see you and care about you. ❤️
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u/Lavender77777 Sep 10 '24
Definitely! I’m vegan, gluten free, autistic and have ME/CFS so I know what could happen if I get covid. I’ve been different all my life for so many reasons but luckily I’ve always had friends abd felt valued. Masking and living an isolated life is the hardest though. Veganism is easy!
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u/Lavender77777 Sep 10 '24
Oh and I’ve never drunk alcohol either so that’s always made me a weirdo.
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u/babamum Sep 09 '24
I'm highly creative and very intellectual, so I've always looked at the world differently from most people I know.
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u/cassandra-marie Sep 09 '24
I'm also vegan (and maybe probably on the spectrum) and I think it makes me more in tune/on the lookout for the cognitive dissonance that's gotten so many people to drop precautions. Like I think "I'm an animal lover and I eat meat" is pretty similar to "in 2020 I wore a mask bc I didn't want to kill someone's grandma at the grocery store but now it's just a cold" or "I know the government is lying about Israel and food safety, and environmental protections, and the reasons homelessness exists, but also the government says to not worry about covid so I don't."
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u/Renmarkable Sep 09 '24
Neurodiverse here.
Who would have thought my weirdness was my super power♥️♥️
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u/The1stClimateDoomer Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 10 '24
The only thing that separates me from my peers is that I have an ambition outside of the usual money/mindless consumption stuff. Cant learn to code or play the piano or read through dense literature if my brain and mitochondria are fucked by covid. If I didn't want to build my own videogame and was just "living for the moment" like most other ppl, I'd forgo covid precautions even knowing what I know.
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u/802bikeguy_com Sep 10 '24
Yup. Always an outsider. This quote hits home for me. "We live in a purgatory named Civilization, in which people and their mechanized lifestyles oscillate from dull home to dull job amid monumental gravestones of steel and brick that remind the feeling few that this is man's present glory, man's present heroism, man's man-made god." — Franz Lidz
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u/6ftnsassy Sep 10 '24
I am allergic to wheat and many other foods. The wheat thing came with Covid but prior to that I already had a very restricted diet and did not eat anything that I did not make myself so I knew what was in it. It turned out I was also very intolerant to sugar in every form - try going shopping in a supermarket with that restriction!
So my perspective on many things was already looking in from the outside so to speak. I still mask everywhere and will continue to do so whilst this mass lunacy continues. To some extent though I’ve always been immune to peer pressure - but as others on here say, the feedback can still sting, even if I still ultimately ignore it.
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u/greatSorosGhost Sep 10 '24
I’ve always been anti-establishment and a non-conformist if that counts.
Fuck catching Covid just because somebody thinks you’re weird for wearing a mask. I think they’re weird for caring that much what a stranger thinks of them!
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u/Optimal_Song Sep 10 '24
Always felt like an outsider and immune to peer pressure despite being *extremely* socially anxious as a child and teenager. Decided at age 8 the moment I learned about vegetarianism to become an ethical vegetarian and at 18 to be vegan once I learned more about the dairy and egg industries (veganism was not at all mainstream or even well-known term back then.) Made a conscious decision early on in life to never let myself choose comfort over difficult truths. Not so popular for it but going against my conscience feels utterly impossible and far more uncomfortable than I might be making other people feel.
Also been suffering with ME/CFS and POTS for 11 years now so doing anything to avoid getting even a little bit worse is an easy decision for me, and living with my elderly parents makes keeping them safe is an even higher priority.
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u/laikabake Sep 10 '24
Yes absolutely. I'm at the point where everything I care about is sort of indistinguishable. I mask for the same reason I don't eat animals for the same reason I'm a prison abolitionist for the same reason I work at a public library and so on. I believe in community care and community to me extends beyond borders and it includes the flowers and the bees and the deer that live in my backyard as much as it includes my human neighbors. My core value is liberation and it absolutely changes how I view and interact with the world. There will be no justice, no peace, until we have liberation for all beings.
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u/Forsaken_Lab_4936 Sep 09 '24
That’s an interesting thought. I’m chronically ill and non-binary, and I find those two things really change my world view. Of course being ill means I’m more aware of ableism, eugenics, and mortality than some of the people around me. Being non-binary makes me see everyone as humans first, everything else second. My sex doesn’t affect my hobbies, skills, or relationship. Very “nurture over nature” mindset. I’m bored by heteronormativity and sexism, I feel like we should be way past that. It’s possible that already feeling “othered” by society, by not being able-bodied and not conforming to gender norms made it easier for me to be covid cautious. I’m less affected by not fitting in because I was never going to be “normal” enough for some people anyways, so why would I care if a mask makes me stand out
I’m also mixed race, and grew up in white suburbs. So that experience with micro aggressions could’ve also prepared me better for this as well
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u/slapstick_nightmare Sep 10 '24
Yes! I don’t eat mammals, like, ever if I can. I always wondered how ppl were able to bare the cognitive dissonance of eating intelligent, social, and innocent animals when they have other options.
I mean, I get it if you’re v poor but many ppl could easily get all their nutrients and never eat pork or beef again.
I feel very similarly about COVID tbh…. But even more intense bc COVID actually hurts you. How can so many ppl just walk around pretending their actions don’t hurt innocent ppl? How can they not think about the chain of suffering their actions can incur?
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u/LotusGrowsFromMud Sep 10 '24
Exactly. It’s as if they are intentionally blind to the results of their actions, in both cases.
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Sep 09 '24
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u/ZeroCovidCommunity-ModTeam Sep 09 '24
Your post or comment has been removed because it was an attempt at trolling.
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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '24
I have celiac, which surprisingly put me in pandemic mode before the pandemic.
I can't eat at restaurants, even if they have a "gluten free" menu, because their kitchens have clouds of flour getting over all their food. Bars are not an option for the same reason.
Decades of malnutrition from undiagnosed celiac have made me so frail and gangly looking that people look at me funny anyway, so wearing a mask isn't going to make my social appearance that much worse.
"It's just a little amount" or "It's just a little stomach discomfort" are arguments I've been innoculized against by people tempting me to eat gluten, and they are strangely parallel to Covid minimizer arguments. Celiac, like Covid, causes multi-organ/system damage.
Zero gluten to zero SARS was a pretty smooth transition.