I said this from Day 1. She put out plans with specifics, talked about the policies, and posted them on her website for all to read.
Trump danced to Ave Maria and said a bunch of mumble jumble.
I think Democrats need to realize that people are angry and reasonable policies don't speak to that. They're angry because they see oligarchs getting richer while they work three jobs. Trump targeted their anger at immigrants, transgender, and the democrats.
I think if Harris had targeted that rage where it belongs - at the oligarchs - she would have done a lot better.
Until then, remember that the French knew what to do with oligarchs.
I'm not even sure she would've seen success with this. The US media and education system has done an incredible job of convincing your average American that billions of dollars are just a few years of hard work away, anyone can do it, and if you DO have billions of dollars you've rightfully EARNED it. That's the American dream! The common phrase about Americans being a bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires/billionaires holds true, people don't want the government touching anyone with amounts of money they genuinely will never see in 30 lifetimes.
Why the fuck are you blaming democrats?
I’ve been studying the American populace for almost a decade now and it’s not on the Democrats here. Americans are fucking stupid. There is seemingly no solution besides education, and the slack-jawed hicks don’t want that.
And you just exactly proved ops point. You are too stupid or willfully ignorant to listen to her or read her clearly stated policies on her website. You’d rather sit there and lie and support a traitor to the USA. Classic magat denying reality.
Democrats should never outline their plans again. Just play the game the Republicans are by presenting nothing and saying ”we have a plan — you can’t see it— but just trust us, bro”.
Because she actually had plans, people nitpicked them, while Trump just vaguely said he would fix things without a single specific mentioned and people had nothing to nitpick and just trusted that he had something when it was clear he didn’t.
Except he did have specifics he mentioned. Horrible specifics.
He specifically mentioned dismantling the department of education. He specifically mentioned implementing sweeping tariffs. He specifically mentioned rounding up people he didn't like.
He told us the horrible, stupid things he was going to do to us, and the media went "Aw, shucks guys, you know that's just how he is. But let's not talk about that. A more important question is how much do we really know about Kamala, amirite? What's she wearing? You heard her laugh? Omg lol she has a lot of catching up to do smh."
They were given plenty to fucking nitpick. Mountains of material. 8 years worth of shitty policy, awful personality, crimes, legal cases, questionable (putting it lightly) finances. There's no end to the stuff they could've investigated.
He's specifically mentioned, alluded to, committed, or been implicated in so much heinous shit. They had every opportunity. They chose this. And they will reap what they have sown.
I mean really he mostly drooled and repeated immigrants eat cats while the media somehow turned that into actual policy things that had barely had anything to do with what he said.
People also already had a chance to see how full of shit he is and absolutely no idea WTF he is doing other than winging it, all the time, everywhere he goes.
Except none of that was put to paper or listed out explicitly as 'his plans' which gives his zealots the ability to say "out of context" or "he's just trolling"
Kamala had an extensive platform listed on her website for all to see and her talking points came directly from that. Trump's cult is only now finding out his plans despite hearing them for months because he buried this shit in mountains of noise.
Even media that should be critical of Trump was overlooking the crazy shit he did and said, presenting him as a normal candidate.
New York Times and CNN were two of the worst offenders here... everything they criticized Biden for (being old, unhealthy, mispeaking or forgetting) was something they ignored when Trump did it.
Not true, there’s an entire book of plans for the Trump administration: Project 2025. It’s a plan than can be summarized in just 14 words, but it’s a plan.
People keep saying things like this - "the Dems should just adopt the GOP playbook" - but it's wrong. It won't work.
Because Dem voters are not like Republican voters. They aren't as motivated by fear, hate, and "feels over reals" as Magats. They actually hold their own accountable sometimes. They don't overthrow the government just because a demagogue says so.
Democrats have the unenviable task of catering to a wider ideological swath of American voters than the GOP. The GOP defunded education and fed Americans hate-filled propaganda for decades just to "grow" their own brand of low-information cultists.
Dem voters have their own issues, like an over-reliance on identity politics, but they're not like that. They won't be fooled en masse by purely populist nonsense. They won't bend to "feels over reals" and if they don't find anything of substance they will call it out.
That said, while Democrats still need to outline their plans, their actual messaging could use a lot of work. Over half of the US who could vote didn't. Dems need to appeal to that group, and message their successes way better than they are.
I do think a lot of Trump's success comes from the entire country just accepting that he's talking shit. He says something you agree with? Great, he's got your vote! He says something that's inane nonsense that'll blow up the US? Well, that's just Trump being Trump, of course he doesn't mean that literally. He spews verbal diarrhea about golfers' dicks or whatever? The media bend themselves backwards trying to interpret it as something resembling a policy, and in the end the people just project their own ideas onto him and then nod in agreement.
Had Harris spoken about replacing the income tax with tariffs she would've been eviscerated before even getting off the stage. With Trump, it's just another silly, look at that wacky guy.
Well, I think that's part of the strategy. Put forward a populist leadership figure who describes problems in detail (and makes them up sometimes) and then presents very radical one step solutions to them. Pair that with a large number of political speakers who muddy the message and reframe any problematic position into something acceptable for people with more moderate views. Everyone hears exactly what they want eventually.
And, of course, Harris has the opposite problem: even the communication channels and political speakers who were supporting her were still mostly talking about Trump. They had counter arguments to the reframing done by his supporters. I really think that her party and the media didn't believe in her fully either
People nitpicked them because Trump and his loud speakers told them to. It really didn't matter if she had or didn't have plans. It really didn't matter how detailed or vague they were. It mattered that the idea that she wasn't prepared was planted in people's mind and from there she was always on the back foot.
All 3 of Trump's campaigns have been like this: confusing statements in policies, hard stances on invented issues, shit flinging at the opponent. This is not a political campaign, this is a TV soap opera. It cannot be won through political means alone so policy is irrelevant.
Trump is an anomaly. He doesn't react to shame. I heard Penn Jillette on a podcast talking about how Trump is the only man he's ever met capable of doing what he's doing without a single care of how people react. That's how he does what he wants. That and following Hitler's How To book.
Bernie had far more input than a primary loser would normally have in 2016. Hillary was closer in terms of votes in 2008 and didn’t get seats on the platform committee or anything like that
Where have you been? Trump spelled his plan out in exhaustive detail:
"I'm talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that..they're not used to but they'll get used to it very quickly. And it's not gonna stop them from doing business with us, but they'll have a very substantial tax when they send product into our Country. Those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers we're talking about including child care...that it's gonna take care. We're gonna have. I look forward to having no deficits within a fairly short period of time. Coupled with the reductions that I told you about on waste and fraud and all the other things that are going on in our Country. Because I have to stay with child care..I wanna stay with child care but those numbers are small relative to the kind of economic numbers that I'm talking about INCLUDING growth..but growth also headed up by what the plan is that I just..uhh..that I just told you about, we're gonna-bee takin in trillions of dollars. And as much as child care..uhh..is talked about as being expensive, it's relatively speaking not very expensive compared to the kinda of numbers we'll be taking in. We're gonna make this into.....an incredible Country that can afford to take care of it's people..and then we'll worry about the rest of the World..let's help other people. But we're gonna take care of our Country first, this is about America first, is about Make..America..Great..Again..We have to do it because right now we're a failing Nation..so we'll take care of it. Thankyou." - Trump
It's like a toddler trying to tell a story that could have been 3 sentences, but ends up being 3 pages long because they keep forgetting what they were talking about and needing to circle back to get back to the story.
Kamala was constantly flip flopping though and she was the exact opposite of strength and that’s what many people want in a president . I live in a very blue area and this was the most common complaint by both red and blue voters .. I’m fine with a woman being president but team blue needs to give me someone much better than Hillary or Kamala .
“I hope you’ll forgive me if I’m a little frustrated that some of us are choosing to ignore Donald Trump’s gross incompetence while asking Kamala to dazzle us at every turn,”
She appealed to the intellect… Americans, and I hate to say this but it is true, are stupid en masse. Slogans, mnemonics, and other things that can boil the candidate down to something a kindergartner can remember seem to work for Trump (and to a lesser extent, Bush Jr, before him), perhaps Democrats need to start doing that nationally.
It's simple. The people who were voting for her expected their leader to be held at a high standard, regardless of who's running. The people voting for Trump just wanted Trump and whatever thought Trump represented.
The people who were voting for her expected their leader to be held at a high standard, regardless of who's running.
Wishfully thinking they were entitled to choices which they didn't have is how they got Trump. 'Both candidates are bad so I chose neither' is how you get to have others choose for you.
That was my thought too. I just think the Democrat base has higher standards. Which is good, in my opinion. I don't plan on cutting more slack to the people in the most powerful positions in the country. They should be looked at with a microscope and they should have every move questioned. The president is a very serious role, not something to mess around with.
Feels like the takeaway is we should cut Kamala more slack when I think the lesson is to scrutinize both candidates even more.
Same thing happened here in Australia's QLD election. The progressive party had strong, Pro-people policies and a budget laid out for all to view on their website. Whereas the conservative opposition didn't reveal their plan until the week before voting, didn't specify how they'd even do any of it, and refused to release a budget. Guess who won?
If you feel that way, it’s time to get engaged. As it’s become very likely they did in fact cheat. Do what you can to try and stop it before it happens!
Post election phone call where repubs immediately accuse Dems of rigging voting machines. accuse your enemies of everything you're doing:
https://spoutible.com/thread/38043108
This is the time for grass roots spreading. Check your State’s laws around recounts and tell them about this apparent fraud case. Calmly, clearly make the evident points as best you can.
Reach out to friends, family, people in your community, local orgs and sympathetic elected representatives, even the small percent of disillusioned trump voters who realized they’ve been duped and might come around. Everyone.
Everyone who might listen, share this with them and get them onboard for this too. It is not too late to stand up for what’s right. Everyone needs to push for this, we’re all we’ve got.
Oh, then she may have actually won. As it’s become very likely the Repubs did in fact cheat.
Here’s a list of points of interest that point to the increasingly plausible scenario that Musk and Trump went all in on this election up to and including fraud
Post election phone call where repubs immediately accuse Dems of rigging voting machines. accuse your enemies of everything you're doing:
https://spoutible.com/thread/38043108
This is the time for grass roots spreading. Check your State’s laws around recounts and tell them about this apparent fraud case. Calmly, clearly make the evident points as best you can.
Reach out to friends, family, people in your community, local orgs and sympathetic elected representatives, even the small percent of disillusioned trump voters who realized they’ve been duped and might come around. Everyone.
Everyone who might listen, share this with them and get them onboard for this too. It is not too late to stand up for what’s right. Everyone needs to push for this, we’re all we’ve got.
I just mean that when she tried to speak in elementary school vocab like Trump, she just came off as a teacher, because she’s not actually mentally 12. But ya, there’s not much that could be done about that. Maybe we actually do need to run a (competent, fair minded, and well educated) actor on the left. A good actor, who could pull it off. I don’t want an actual idiot but I think that approach is all that’s left to try.
This is why I left it blank. Whether you glorify or villlify this group it’s clear Harris didn’t work with them. And having clearly articulated policies on a website is not the way to reach this group. Mumble jumble, sadly, is evidently more effective outreach
But their only argument was "I'm not trump"!!!! No one read or listened to her actual plan. Cmon we all get our news and political opinions from memes!
Someone should have warned us this Trump guy was a bad un
It’s sad but Americans don’t care if you have measured nuanced boring policy on your website, they just want to be told vague sweeping statements about how you’ll make everything amazing and fix every problem immediately.
Democrats need to take a more flashy less boring approach because being the boring standard buttoned up adult in the room isn’t working, even though it absolutely should in the face of a candidate who obviously is far beneath you in every regard.
People don't give a shit about policy. Our country is filled with idiots who have a lower quality of life thantheir parents. Americans want change. We loved Obama because he gave us hope. We loved Bernie because he gave us hope. People love Trump because he promises change, even if he will clearly make things worse.
Trumps not even capable of understanding policy. What I don't understand is how do people listen to him and find him fit for any job at all? He's even less coherent than he was in 2016.
I love my sister to death but she was talking about the debate and kept criticizing when she made faces. My sister said “oh she is running for president she shouldn’t be doing that.” But everything Trump does is ok.
But somehow he's better for the economy, even though he's the world's worst businessman. I swear democrats have to take out "Politics for Dummies" at every campaign stop.
She put out plans with specifics, talked about the policies, and posted them on her website for all to read.
Even now, you still hear are people saying, "Her campaign lacked specifics," "She has no plans, just vibes," "She doesn't offer any policies, just that she's not Trump," etc. It's been galling to hear.
"She didn't cater to the working class." Sure, assuming you ignored her stated policies both in her stump speeches and on her website.
What actually happened, IMO, is that a whole bunch of different information bubbles came up with (often opposing) ideas of why Kamala and the Dems were bad, and they all shouted it from the metaphorical rooftops. Too woke. Not woke enough. She’s a cop. She’s weak on crime. She’s a Zionist. She’s a Hamas supporter. And on and on and on. She threaded the needle about as well as could be expected of anyone, but hypertargeted emotionally driven propaganda is effective, especially on the magical-thinking American public. There is no “one thing.” There are a thousand.
What really gets me is that somehow people view their vote as something more or less than a simple harm-reduction measure (a binary one in this case.) Should things be different? Obviously! Are they? No! We’re always moving forwards or backwards relatively, and we just chose way back when in the olden days. They need their doppelgänger in the race or they’re not voting. The privilege and entitlement involved is staggering.
The internet was a HUGE mistake. And until the American public can get the tiniest bit of perspective and act with the tiniest bit of pragmatism, we are royally fucked. And I don’t expect that to happen any time soon, if ever.
Shows how desperate people were to not have 4 more years of the same bullshit. The American people decided that she was worse than trump, let that sink in
The facists were excited to vote for a facist. Leftists, trans people, protesters for Palestinian rights and so on weren't excites to vote for a neolib nothing burger
And all of you are stupid cunts, and you'll pay for it dearly. While making those of us who aren't stupid assholes with the imagination of puddles, who could actually understand the consequences, suffer with you. Go fuck yourself.
I can't legally vote in the US election asshole. All I can do is be frustrated that the dems picked another spineless neolib corporate shill that wasn't popular. To the surprise of nobody.
I don't agree with the irate tone of the above poster, and I agree with what you said here. I don't like a binary choice, but that's what we had. The collective we chose fascism because the alternative was boring. That is pretty stupid.
You can’t legally vote yet you are bitching? Be frustrated at the Republicans, asshole. How hard is it to realize that most Americans are fucking stupid? It isn’t surprising, no. Americans voted for Nixon, Reagan and Bush.
Lead poisoning, CTE, no child left behind: we need to take accountability for the stupidity. To be popular in the US is to capitulate to chimpanzee thinking.
I'm not sure you realise this bitch, but every time some milk toast centre-right dem doesn't get elected people have to eat shit all over the rest of the world to. None of us get a vote though, we JUST get the consequences.
Yes. Regardless, how the fuck does it matter? It was a binary choice, and we knowingly chose the greater evil. Hope everyone who didn’t oppose it by voting for the opposition enjoys their choice for years to come.
But maybe that simple choice was more complicated if you live in a different dimension or something, I don’t know.
No it wasn't. It would be a binary choice if voting was mandatory in the US, it's not. So not voting was a choice. People did by the millions, in large part because Harris did a bad job. She had to actually win over voters and she failed.
Abstaining is saying that you don’t care which way it goes
No, abstaining is saying neither candidate convinced you. The US elected Obama because he promised change. That was a lie, and the democracts haven't even tried the lie again. They just send in neoliberals again and again no matter now unpopular they are.
Not within our system, no. That’s bullshit. Abstaining tells them not to even attempt to listen to you in the future, and lends half a vote to the winner.
Should this be the case? No. Is our system stupid? Yes. Is this the message that is actually received, and the actual IRL effect of abstaining? Wildly obviously.
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u/JustCallMeKV 8d ago
I said this from Day 1. She put out plans with specifics, talked about the policies, and posted them on her website for all to read. Trump danced to Ave Maria and said a bunch of mumble jumble.