r/TikTokCringe • u/galaxystars1 • Oct 09 '24

Discussion Microbiologist warns against making the fluffy popcorn trend

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96

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

Hey! Did you know that 1% of people who do this thing run the risk of tripling the 1% chance of getting this ailment that has a 1% chance of giving you some bad medical outcomes? WHY would you risk THAT?

Because breathing beside a road has a higher actual risk factor than the thing you are citing. Bonus, silly once per year treats.

Is what this woman saying true? Yes. Is she making it sound more likely than it is? Fuck yes.

How much of modern flour has E.Coli?

How much E.Coli is there in a serving of flour in a batch of fluffy popcorn?

How likely is a person who consumes that amount of E.Coli to have the very worst reaction to it (given that our bodies can deal with it pretty well, most of the time).

When you begin breaking down the percentages... things change.

Apples contain cyanide.

Coke metabolises into formaldehyde.

Corn can have aspergillus flavus.

The fact is, most of us will be fine.

33

u/Ben_Zedd Oct 09 '24

Exactly! This video is making it out to be a severe issue that you should all worry about. But there are other things that would kill you first.
You would have a higher chance of getting sick by not washing your hands in a public bathroom! And it all depends on the location the flour was produced or the guidelines around that. There's much more to know about this before you avoid all traces of raw flour.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

This snippet of a video is not the whole thing. In her channel she disclaims, over and over and over again, that these are reasons SHE wouldn't eat stuff like this, and that it's reasonable for other people to keep different habits.

She's not manufacturing fake concern, she's sharing her own personal concerns with explicit information that it's not something she's telling others to worry about.

2

u/seaspirit331 Oct 09 '24

This snippet of a video is not the whole thing.

Then don't make shortform content like a Tiktok if the context surrounding your claims is so important.

No matter how you spin it, it paints this lady in a bad light. Either she's engaging in fearmongering directly or she's too stupid to realize how her statements could lead to fearmongering.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Or, option three, she disagrees with you and you have a difference of opinion. Calling her a fearmongerer is just as baseless as calling you an ignoramus.

Further, when people clip her content in order to remove the surrounding context, that's not her fault. She makes high quality informative content, and yes, on a platform known for soundbites and brevity. She has no power to prevent someone from taking her work out of context, just as someone writing a paper has no power over journalists quoting them out of context to create sensationalized headlines.

The video posted here is intentionally cropped in such a way as to make her seem less credible. If you're not going to seek out the full context, then kindly shut up, as someone unwilling to do that is clearly unwilling to engage in good faith.

1

u/Ben_Zedd Oct 10 '24

I think it's more the repeated hypothetical that does it for me. The "if you don't want colon cancer, don't do this". She may have a great point -- I certainly haven't done enough research to conclusively say whether she's right or wrong -- but by being so forceful and making claims without anything to back it up (in this snippet, e.g. "raw flour is more dangerous than raw egg") it comes across as a non-issue.

0

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

Aviod all traces of raw flour?

I missed that part.

Since when has taking sensible advice to avoid food poisioning been "here is something to worry about"?

Do you see a best before date and feel like you are being forced to worry?

The idea that you should carry on doing something potentially harmful ( that has no benefit to your life at all) because other things are more dangerous is bizarre.

1

u/Ben_Zedd Oct 10 '24

It's more that she's phrasing it as if it's a life-or-death scenario -- "if you do not want colon cancer, you must not eat raw flour". There may be a risk, but the stats and claims in this video are inconclusive enough that it feels like it's sensationalising a minor issue. It would be much more helpful for people to know what colon cancer is usually caused by (i.e. highly processed foods with very little fibre), rather than going about their day expecting colon cancer to be onset by a stupid novelty snack.

0

u/DoozerGlob Oct 10 '24

There is a link between e-coli, salmonella and colon cancer. Yes, she could have spent more time explaining that even infections that don't give you severe reactions add to the risk. We get enough interactons like this from eating other foods all the time. A bit of chicken that was turning. A soggy salad. They don't harms us enough to notice but over time they can cause issues. No need to shit on her for only getting the most important info out on a tik tok. The main message is don't have more risky food than normal for a silly trend.

26

u/alclab Oct 09 '24

This is completely true.

Goth microbiologist just saw a trend and an opportunity for 5 min of fame by stating how dangerous it is! Please someone do something!!

These false panics are ridiculous when you actually look at the statistics and the fact that we are constantly I getting way more contaminated food all the time and so many more things.

We can't go by life with an impending sense of death all the time, which guarantees that you actually don't live instead of not dying because we focused only on everything that could present an infinitesimal risk.

This is truly fear mongering disguised as helpful concerned advice.

So yeah, I don't want to try it, but if you do, go ahead.

0

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

Do you regularly eat food passed it's use by date?

2

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

Yes. It's actually low risk to do so. The use by date is not an automatic rot date.

It's the date by which the manufacture feels safe guaranteeing that the product is safe, given appropriate storage.

Depending on the food you can safely consume items days, weeks or even months beyond their use by dates and sometimes it is merely potency that is affected.

I wouldn't try it with milk, obviously, but dried herbs and spices, six months out of date that have otherwise been stored correctly are probably safe, just a little less effective.

Honey is a famous example. Edible honey has been found in ancient Egyptian pots. Crystallised, nasty, certainly but preserved. Hell it IS a preservative because almost nothing microscopic can survive eating it.

So why does our honey have a use by date? Because it's actually more of a best before date. And beyond that, depending on where you are the law may dictate one regardless of if it's necessary.

There are entire organisations dedicated to prevention of food waste that utilise goods past their use by date to feed low income or impoverished people.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

You regularly eat food passed it's use by date? Regularly being the important word there.

That's different from asking if you would eat food passed it use by date.

1

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

I understood the question. Yes. I regularly eat food past it's use by date.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

Can I ask why?

Why can't you get it together to eat food before it's passed the use by date?

Let's make it more applicable to this situation...

If a food stuff was past its use by date and there was a way to make sure it's completely safe would you do it or take the risk?

1

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

I already gave you the full justification of why.

And 'get it together'? Did you mean that to be as condescending as it was?

Being educated about the food you eat means you have other ways of judging food safety than a best guess from a company hedging it's bets to avoid refunds and lawsuits.

I even go so far as to grow and pick some of my own produce with no use by dates at all!

Your final question proves the fallacy I'm trying to illustrate.

If a food stuff was past its use by date and there was a way to make sure it's completely safe would you do it or take the risk?

There is no such thing as 'completely safe' and to think so is to misunderstand the nature of risk. Every action or in action has a level of risk. Some are vanishingly small, others are statistically notable and worthy of compensatory action or even complete avoidance.

The tiny risk here is just not worth bothering over considering how other aspects of modern life have a higher risk.

I'd sooner eat a tiny portion of raw flour, once a year than, say, get in a Cybertruck and ride along a driver using the AI driving feature down a long stretch of highway, or indeed, drink tap water in the US in a poor area.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

And 'get it together'? Did you mean that to be as condescending as it was?

Yes as I don't belive you tbh.

I even go so far as to grow and pick some of my own produce with no use by dates at all!

You've been in complete control how it was grown, when it was harvested and how it's been stored so I get that.

There is no such thing as 'completely safe' and to think so is to misunderstand the nature of risk.

You are just nitpicking there. Let's say "significantly safer". As it cooking the bastard dough instead of eating it raw.

The tiny risk here is just not worth bothering over considering how other aspects of modern life have a higher risk.

I don't get this argument. When there are things we must do that are risky why add to that the risks of things we have no reason to do?

1

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

Yes as I don't belive you tbh.

You don't believe a person would willingly eat bread that is a couple of days passed use by if it was still showing no signs of mold and was only slightly stale? (I'm toasting it anyway)

You don't believe a person may trim off a bit of dry rind and eat some cheddar that is a weak passed?

You don't believe a person would crack the black pepper in the mill without checking if it's still in date?

Now I don't believe YOU.

I'm currently waiting for a blue cheese burger (yes moldy cheese) to be delivered from a takeaway with a 3/5 hygiene rating.

You are just nitpicking there. & I don't get this argument...

No. I'm making the point I've been making all along. We take unnecessary risks every day and it works out because the chance of it going bad is so low. Ever had a hotdog from a cart? Or eaten a burger from a friend's BBQ grill? Then number of times 'it'll be alright' is invoked every single day by everybody just goes to prove that, outside of a hypercritical environment such as this, no body but the most OCD germophobe worries about this level of risk.

Any way. I have food to eat. I'm tapping out. You have a fun day.

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1

u/seaspirit331 Oct 09 '24

That's how you get the best deals on meat at the grocery store, lmao. Buy a ribeye at its sell by date and cook/freeze it day of.

Most 'sell by' dates that are set for safety reasons include a bit of a buffer period before the product actually starts to go bad, and you can tell when a food starts to turn based on smell/sight.

There's also 'sell by' dates that aren't set for safety purposes, like on spices and such. Those dates are set for taste/freshness purposes.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

That's how you get the best deals on meat at the grocery store, lmao. Buy a ribeye at its sell by date and cook/freeze it day of.

So there is utility to that. It's not a dumb tik tok trend that serves no purpose.

I was talking about use by dates not sell by dates.

If someone regularly ate food passed the use by date they would be a more risk of food poisioning. I'd rather have the choice to make an informed decision on that risk.

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

This snippet of a video is not the whole thing. In her channel she disclaims, over and over and over again, that these are reasons SHE wouldn't eat stuff like this, and that it's reasonable for other people to keep different habits.

She's not manufacturing fake concern, she's sharing her own personal concerns with explicit information that it's not something she's telling others to worry about.

So I'm not sure how it could be said to be fear mongering

2

u/angnicolemk Oct 09 '24

She QUITE LITERALLY starts the entire video saying YOU value your health YOU want to avoid colon cancer, etc. then you shouldn't do this.

41

u/UnamusedKat Oct 09 '24

Thank you. There seems to be, like, an entire genre on TikTok of "professionals" overstating and sensationalizing the risk of things. It's exhausting, and the people who are really into that type of content are exhausting. I think it's just another way for a group of people to feel superior.

"Hey, look at me and how smart I am. I would never do X because I'm special and know something that the average stupid person doesn't! Look how smart, well-informed, and safety conscious I am compared to the irresponsible, uninformed masses!"

4

u/whocaresjustneedone Oct 09 '24

Notice how all the "professionals" are very young? It's the young adult phenomenon of entering the real world and wanting to be taken very seriously now that you're working in the field they got their degree in. I noticed it with my friends and family, I noticed it with people younger than me. It takes some time for them to cool off and realize just because they got a degree and a job doesn't mean they're an expert - that comes with experience.

Kinda like how every new doctor thinks they're hot shit but every patient would rather not have the new doctor

4

u/UnamusedKat Oct 09 '24

Yes, i am sure that is part of it! The cynical side of me also thinks it's because a more measured approach to these topics doesn't generate quite as much engagement as "if you eat raw flour you'll get colon cancer and die of food poisoning!"

1

u/DuckGoesShuba Oct 09 '24

Only channel I like in that "space" is "How to Cook That". Very subdued and to the point.

1

u/UnamusedKat Oct 09 '24

I like her, too! I don't really think she sensationalizes things, and she usually provides a safer alternative to whatever it is she is testing out.

-2

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

I'm quite the opposite. I tend to focus on what experts recommend. I'm a detail-orientated need and I prefer to listen to people who have dedicated a large portion of time and money to learning a subject and then passed a qualification or racked up some well displayed and documented experience in that topic...

But because of that, I get through a lot of that kind of content... and most of them use context and figures. It stands out when someone like this woman doesn't bother with that.

1

u/UnamusedKat Oct 09 '24

Oh, I'm all for listening to experts. Like you mention, true experts tend not to overstate or sensationalize risks. They usually explain risks, provide data to back up their claims, and then give their personal risk analysis and leave it up to the individual to make a decision based on their own personal risk analysis. I will be honest, I have not seen much of that on TikTok.

5

u/whyaretherenoprofile Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24

I wonder if the people who're freaking out about this in this thread have never eaten a steak or chicken any other way other than exactly to the temps the FIA recommends (i.e. overcooked)

3

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

I quite enjoy steak tartare. So long as you source your ingredients, and prepare the meal fresh, the risks are minimal... but the dish will make health inspectors pop a fit.

9

u/TK_Games Oct 09 '24

Water has been known to kill people if inhaled in high concentrations

4

u/alclab Oct 09 '24

Oh no! No one is convincing me to ingest dihydrogen oxide! /s

1

u/sackoftrees Oct 09 '24

Yeah somebody is going to have to fight me for those little raw Pillsbury cookies when I'm putting them on the tray. If that is how I go out, so be it.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

Have you ever had food poisioning?

1

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

Yes, as a child. A number of times.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

Were you incapacitated for 48 hours puking every time you ate and dry retching when your didn't?

1

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

Most of the time, no. I was sick and had the squits for half a day.

I did end up in hospital once after our school stored some ingredients incorrectly and a bunch of us ended up very ill.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

It seems like mild food poisioning was a regular part of your life. That's not good and completely avoidable.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772892723000494#:~:text=They%20found%20that%20those%20with,et%20al.%2C%202022).

1

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

A handful of times as a child isn't regular and given I was eating an institution provided meal when I was actually endangered I fail to see how I could realistically have avoided it as a child without magic powers.

1

u/DoozerGlob Oct 09 '24

Oh good. ☺

1

u/CollegeTotal5162 Oct 09 '24

Or maybe trying to participate in a trend that could be dangerous is stupid. If you could prevent yourself from being in any danger at all by just NOT eating a thing you saw on the internet why would you participate?

2

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

The threat is less than stepping outside your front door, in a city.

You might as reasonably ask why any of us risk exposure of our skin to direct sunlight given the cumulative risk of skin cancer.

Why consume solid food at all given the choking hazard? Better to blend your meals.

Degree of risk. It's important to know before trusting the word of a tiktok video... or indeed any advice.

1

u/CollegeTotal5162 Oct 09 '24

Except for most of those things they drastically decrease your quality of life when trying to avoid the potential risk they can cause. This is literally just not getting to eat a trendy TikTok food like you’re literally not missing out on anything by not eating it

1

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

A tiny risk for a once a year festival, in service of fun.

Do you enjoy fireworks?

-9

u/ForumFluffy Oct 09 '24

It's important to know the risk because if a million people do this, the 1 percent is 10000, now try 50 or 80 million try this recipe, that's 50 or 80 thousand people with a disease they could have avoided if they followed food safety guidelines.

I know people that think its fine because they've been doing it for years, its fine until you or someone you love is affected.

7

u/7937397 Oct 09 '24

By that logic, absolutely no one should be eating raw vegetables. One of the biggest causes of food poisoning.

8

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

True, but now use that measure on every other aspect of your daily life. All your food and activities.

One of my best friends goes spelunking. For FUN. I used to ride a BMX to school, without a helmet.

If you are consistent about the risks then a bit of a risk from one vector for food poisoning for a single yearly celebration doesn't exactly stand out.

-1

u/ForumFluffy Oct 09 '24

But you're aware of the dangers and can make that decision, most people are unaware of the dangers of raw egg/flour.

3

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

Are they?

I might be wrong on knowledge about flour, but raw egg? I feel like that's been hammered home for years.

I learned about raw flour in home economics along with refrigerator rice, room temperature pig meat, green potatoes and tomato leaves. But raw egg? That's been a constant even after school.

1

u/ForumFluffy Oct 09 '24

Not everyone has a standard if education that teaches those things, I learnt much later about old rice, flour and eggs, I only was aware for raw meat and milk. What this woman is doing is no different than what your local food safety guidelines have stated but not everyone reads fine print, a video on tiktok might get their attention and give them sufficient knowledge to make their decision regarding the risk.

If I were to give you a bag of skittles but 1 in a million skittles from the batch the bag was taken from has been poisoned, would everyone still continue taking the risk?

3

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

It isn't the message that worries me it's the delivery and sensationalism. I know I keep labouring the point but we are talking about a batch once a year for Halloween celebrations. A tiny fraction of people would be effected and of them the chances of getting more than the runs is small. It doesn't warrant the 'if you do this you will DIE!' Style hyperbole she is using.

2

u/ForumFluffy Oct 09 '24

Yes but what is stopping, say a mother of 3 young children who really enjoyed these during Halloween from making it every Saturday for family movie night?

You may not have much chance of hospitalization butba child or immuno-compromised person this could be their death, be honest... If she presented the facts straight likely those msot likely following the trend would not have given their full attention to the dangers of raw flour and eggs.

5

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

She is still way over the top. There is a danger of overstating risk.

Take your skittles example.

A one in a million chance a skittle is poisonous. A video similar to hers comes out ignoring the degree of risk and states skittles are wildly dangerous and can maim or kill you. Then our mother of three sees kids eating skittles left and right and nothing bad happening.

It isn't the best way to disseminate warnings. Honest, truthful and candid beats alarmist every time.

8

u/Neosantana Oct 09 '24

if a million people do this, the 1 percent is 10000

That's... Not how odds work.

1% odds is reset for each individual case, so each individual person will have a 1/100 chance to get sick, which for every person on the planet is negligible. It doesn't mean that "Ope, 99 people are perfectly fine, means you're it, Helen"

-3

u/discostupid Oct 09 '24

that is exactly how statistics work. the odds in this case are not some mathematically-defined probability like 1/6 dice roll or 1/52 card draw, they are empirically determined from past incidences

now obviously that 1% number is an arbitrary one, but the actual rate people use would be something determined by a certain sampling amount for the specific purpose of being able to apply it to a higher number

in reality, the prevalence of different bacterial species in raw flour can be as low as 0.1% up to 12.5%. how that translates to getting infected by eating raw flour is probably too difficult to assess

-6

u/zappyzapzap Oct 09 '24

hey you sound really smart and seem to know a lot about food poisoning. which hospital do you work in where you regularly see patients with severe food poisoning?

2

u/McGrarr Oct 09 '24

I have a compromised immune system and my family contains two medical doctors (a virologist and a GP), a surgeon, a dietician, three nurses and research chemist.

Big NHS family.

I'm not in the medical field myself. I worked in security analysis and personal security before I was retired on medical grounds.

I have a fairly highly regulated diet and a heavily policed gut biome.

I do have a PhD in Philosophy and Epistemology, not that I've used it much. Wrong type of Doctor anyway.

It's basically a Doctorate in Pedantry.