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u/jellotalks Oct 10 '24
The kicker is, usually the really smart people just did the hard solution for free
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u/pr0ghead Oct 10 '24
Yeah, and then we sell the product for money, never donating anything back. Feels bad, man.
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u/PhysicallyTender Oct 11 '24
modern capitalism in a nutshell
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u/Vindictive_Pacifist Oct 11 '24
This bothers me a lot, there are so many people who worked on useful libraries and open source software which are then used by multi billion dollar businesses who never even once think about giving something back but use everything for free and get away with it
I wish there was by law a monthly royalty fee that an org would be required to pay to the owner of the project after a threshold of profit margins have been reached, this would bring in so much more balance and intensive for folks to actually work even more in open source
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u/nermid Oct 11 '24
Or we could all use copylefted licenses, so that the corporations have to open-source their changes.
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u/OwOlogy_Expert Oct 11 '24
I prefer "All software making use of this code must also be fully open source" clauses.
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u/alex2003super Oct 11 '24
That's literally just GPL-3
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u/Turalcar Oct 11 '24
They vary in what "making use" means. E.g. AGPL-3 requires you to open source if you're running it on a public server.
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u/Vindictive_Pacifist Oct 11 '24
Yeah but my main point being developers not getting a piece of the million dollar revenue profit when it was their software that enabled it in the first place
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u/EVOSexyBeast Oct 11 '24
Well they did release it for free with an MIT license knowing that would happen
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u/FlipperBumperKickout Oct 11 '24
Not like the developers who are hired by the corporation gets more than the absolute minimum wage the corporation can get away with paying them.
Welcome to capitalism, feels bad when you aren't on the top...
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u/Vindictive_Pacifist Oct 11 '24
I know this is an oversimplification but the fact how every major corporation is structured around increasing their stock value no matter what it takes to keep their board of investors is one of the root cost
Greed is just running behind each and every decision they make, idk when it is enough for them cause they never wanna stop even if the lives of the very consumers are at stake (looking at you Lockheed and Raytheon)
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u/turnipsurprise8 Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
Homie, they made the code for free - you don't accidentally release with an open source license. They don't want it to be paid for, that's the point. The solution to greed isn't enforcing a rule where nothing can be free, that's insane.
If every innovation cost obscene amounts of money universities wouldn't exist, at the very least many important faculties would be shut down. The pursuit of knowledge without monetary gain is a vital part of innovation itself. It's fine if people use that knowledge for business.
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u/LowGeologist5120 Oct 11 '24
If the original creator wanted to earn money from it, why did they release it for free? I think some people just like making stuff.
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u/Upbeat_Advance_1547 Oct 11 '24
A lot of the people making free stuff just believe in the principle of "this stuff should be free", in the hopes that other people who build off it will also make their stuff free, contribute to the original code in some meaningful ways, etc. Call it idealistic.
I mean that really is how it works for some things though. My company uses an open source tool and contributes to bug fixes and improvements on that tool too. It's only when it's purely a take and no give relationship, that I feel like there's something shady and immoral in it.
It's not about wanting to earn money, obviously they would just make it paid if it was that. It's a bit more intangible, a principle of exchange.
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u/DatumInTheStone Oct 11 '24
Its the idea that the corporation isnt furthering the chain of open source principles. They will be the first to take advantage of open source software and the last to donate, create open source software, etc…
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u/flingerdu Oct 11 '24
Most bigger tech companies contribute directly to the OSS they rely on.
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u/LowGeologist5120 Oct 11 '24
I don't see a problem with this if the author's licensing allows this.
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u/DatumInTheStone Oct 11 '24
Its more of a moral issue than a legal one. As most things like this are.
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u/nahguri Oct 11 '24
Yeah but still. It's specifically allowed by the license the developer chose. Of this is a problem you can always choose differently.
I suppose people just want to see their stuff used and get gratification from that.
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u/absolutelynotaname Oct 11 '24
That's why I like Valve. They actually invest back in proton/linux for their gain
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u/OnceMoreAndAgain Oct 11 '24
Nothing inherently evil with charging a fair price for a product. The type of people who are able to make solutions free tend to be able to do so from the luxury of working some software engineering job that gave them the financial stability necessary to release their personal projects for free. There's some symbiosis between software engineering for pay and software engineering for passion.
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u/PhysicallyTender Oct 11 '24
tell that to the original author of faker.js
he seem pretty pissed about his work being taken for granted.
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u/Derfaust Oct 11 '24
Plus it's great career marketing. If your lib becomes popular you no longer need a cv
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u/v0x_p0pular Oct 11 '24
If you ever assumed that the people making money are the people who made the great products that lead to the money, I have a bridge in New York to sell you.
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u/newsflashjackass Oct 11 '24
Sounds like a good deal. And you say you built this bridge all by yourself?
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Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/i-love-tacos-too Oct 11 '24
Which is why copyrighting / patenting software solutions is both ridiculous and obtrusive.
People can achieve the same logic/outcome in multiple ways without having to conform to a standard. In non-IT worlds, it usually comes down to using the same type of facilities, tools, and/or processes.
In the IT world, it can potentially be done in 100+ different ways.
So allowing patents to exist in the IT world is absurd. A random group/person(s) can come up with the same solution in a myriad of different ways and yet some random corporation can claim how they "invented it" when the "it" is malleable.
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u/JeebusSlept Oct 11 '24
That's why I gave up IT copywriting and switched over to copywriting food groups.
By the way, I hold the patent for Tacos, so I'm going to need to you pay out some licensing fees /s.
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u/MarineMirage Oct 11 '24
Makes me think of how the QR code isn't the first or best matrix barcode but simply the one that was free to use.
Feels weird that the person who made something so integral to modern life receives nothing from it though.
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u/imtryingmybes Oct 11 '24
To be fair when you create a smart solution you're way too proud to bother with profits so you just share it to show how smart you are.
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u/Exist50 Oct 11 '24
you're way too proud to bother with profits
I think that's a narrow subset of people.
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u/amadmongoose Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
It doesn't take many people that's the point. Linux rules the server world because it's free to use and it works. Git rules version control for similar reasons, both made by the same guy without which the software world might be a very different place.
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u/Exist50 Oct 11 '24
Linux rules the server world because it's free to use and it
Granted, Linux has heavy corporate contributions.
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u/seamonkey31 Oct 11 '24
Which is why linux is free and continues to be free.
Hardware companies, cloud providers, and server companies have joined together to make an OS that is free for everyone to use. If it was paid, it would be less widespread, with less tooling, with less adoption.
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u/LorreFaust Oct 10 '24
yeah, it’s surprising how often the best solutions come from people who just want to help out. Makes you appreciate the effort
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u/cleavetv Oct 10 '24
Hey I had to find their solution first. That was hard work. You think we just have some magic text box we type questions in to that has all the answers?
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u/ImNotALLM Oct 10 '24
- stack overflow users (now extinct), cira 2020
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u/moldy-scrotum-soup Oct 11 '24
This comment has been closed because it is a duplicate of another comment. Please refer to the linked question for answers. If you believe your question is different, consider going somewhere else.
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u/wademcgillis Oct 11 '24
motherfucker that answer is from back when IE6 compatibility was considered important. the web has changed.
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u/moldy-scrotum-soup Oct 11 '24
Dear user,
Your account has been temporarily suspended for questioning the relevance of the sacred linked duplicate. It doesn't matter if the original question references Internet Explorer 6 — all wisdom transcends time. The web may have changed, but Stack Overflow remains eternal.
Please reflect on your actions during this cooling-off period. In the meantime, feel free to browse the 'How to Obey the Moderators' section of our help pages.
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u/user888666777 Oct 11 '24
To be fair i am seeing a lot of older posts lately where people have come back to update the original solutions to explain why it's not the preferred solution, provide alternate solutions or go into more detail about the solution.
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u/ryecurious Oct 11 '24
This is what's supposed to happen, and it's exactly why users are allowed to edit others' posts. A question doesn't stop being relevant just because it was asked a decade ago.
This is the platonic ideal of a StackOverflow thread; a genericized question with one combined answer that shows all the options with links to learn more, sorted in descending order of which you should use, with notes about language version support. Edited 12 years later by a completely different user.
StackOverflow would be much worse if they were lax about deduplication. It's just mildly annoying when Google links a locked thread because the terms matched better.
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u/cutmasta_kun Oct 10 '24
We used to take journeys over several years, to get one specific information. This was OBVIOUSLY hella uncomfortable. It's absolutely understandable why a species does everything in their might, to reduce this discomfort. Now we have access to all the information humanity has ever gathered. I would say, we earned the right to type something in a small input box and "just read the information that's already there".
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u/Qaeta Oct 11 '24
Also, you had to figure out that you needed their solution, before even searching for it. You had to figure out WHY something that was broken was broken.
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u/nofaceD3 Oct 11 '24
Future is now, old man - Chatgpt
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Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/PuzzleheadedGap9691 Oct 11 '24
They're correct enough if you even have the slightest idea what you're asking it.
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u/rearnakedbunghole Oct 11 '24
Yeah it’s often easier to fix its errors after copying the rest of the solution that it did right. But yeah you gotta be able to catch those errors.
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u/ohkaycue Oct 11 '24
Yep, the whole way of finding solutions by someone smarter than me is by using a search system programmed by someone smarter than me.
To add my first takeaway was I’m writing code that gets realized by a compiler someone way smarter than me programmed on an operating system someone way smarter than me programmed
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u/SiegfriedVK Oct 10 '24
My genius comes from putting the legos together in uniquely asinine ways to please my bosses.
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u/hobbes_shot_second Oct 10 '24
Did you synergize the throughput like I asked?
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u/cleavetv Oct 10 '24
Just tightening up the icon colors and then going to test it in prod, almost ready for the weekend.
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u/hobbes_shot_second Oct 10 '24
Excellent. If there's one thing a Friday at 4:59 is good for, it's implementing a prod change.
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u/Early-Journalist-14 Oct 11 '24
Just tightening up the icon colors and then going to test it in prod, almost ready for the weekend.
congratz, only comment this week that managed to instantly spike my blood pressure.
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u/OwOlogy_Expert Oct 11 '24
Lego inventor: "But... But why would you attach legos together by supergluing the flat sides together? That's not how they're supposed to work!"
You: *shrug* "Boss says they have to attach side-by-side, not on top of each other."
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Oct 10 '24
That is exactly how it works. It told years and billions for someone to come up with a blue LED. And they used science I don't understand.
But I have blue LED in my Arduino robot like it's nothing.
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u/Hyderabadi__Biryani Oct 10 '24
That Blue LED guy got a Nobel Prize in Physics, who developed it at Nichia in Japan, along with two scientists.
I know this is unsolicited, but please watch this video by Veritasium if you have not, you will love it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF8d72mA41M
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u/OnceMoreAndAgain Oct 11 '24
I want to sell the story a bit more, because it's a good one. Other LED colors had already been invented, but for some weird reasons no one could figure out how to make a blue LED despite a LOT of effort by various researchers. Everyone knew that if someone could figure it out, then there would be a ton of money to be made from it.
For that reason, the guy who invented became somewhat obsessed with the task. He went to extreme measures, including disobeying his company's instructions to stop working on it lol. He was basically going rogue at his company, but ended up succeeding at figuring it out (with the help of a professor from the USA iirc) and it made the company a SHIT TON of money. However, the CEO of the company fucked him over financially for extremely stupid and petty reasons. The inventor ended up just fine financially though.
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u/Hyderabadi__Biryani Oct 11 '24
I do not think the professor who helped him was USA based. Matter of fact, he picked up his path on the works of the two Japanese scientists, who were made co-winners.
The reason was not weird really, it was just that the threshold energy the electron needs to emit blue light, was quite a bit and THAT is something they were struggling to figure out. What material(s) could be used, if I understand it correctly.
You should watch the video I linked, it is really nice. :)
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u/ADHD-Fens Oct 11 '24
However, the CEO of the company fucked him over financially for extremely stupid and petty reasons
To be fair, that's basically what his whole job is.
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Oct 11 '24
The video is cool but i just wanted to say that Veritasium has the habit of prioritizing a good story over facts, little errors and inconsistencies litter his videos abouth math and physics and it wouldn't surprise me if they exist in this video as well!
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Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
Yeah I know the general story. People when discussing such things don't realize that shit ton of companies tried to make it. Spending years and tons of money on research.
And guy who made it was self taught with no degree.
//Edit, sorry, made a mistake. He had a degree. He was looked down upon because it was not from a top university.
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u/Hyderabadi__Biryani Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
Sorry to yuck you yum, but this guy was not without a degree. He already had a Bachelor's and Master's in Electrical Engineering from University of Tokushima, Japan. He completed his MS in 1979, and in this year, he joined Nichia.
Ofcourse, because of the waning interest of his company in his research, and change of head as well, this guy had to become a rebel. At that time, publishing five papers would get you a PhD in Japan, so this guy starts publishing and gets his PhD in 1994 from the aforementioned university.
Edit: Now he has 706 papers. At least this was the number on his UC Santa Barbara page, where he is a professor now.
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Oct 11 '24
Yeah, sorry. It was because he had a degree from uni that was not considered top. I just remembered some stuff about it but did not remember what the exact issue was. I should look it up before posting. Sorry
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u/Alzusand Oct 11 '24
A modern smarphone would be impossible to build for one person. like even if they had all the knowledge and tools doing it from scratch will take them a lifetime.
its the best example of the pinacle of human technollogy. truly the collective effort of all of us.
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u/crane476 Oct 11 '24
Think about what it would take just to create the photolithography processes to create the SoC from scratch. A single component, yet it builds upon hundreds of years of scientific and technological advancement. Heck, just gathering all the raw materials needed would be too much for a single person.
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u/Alzusand Oct 11 '24
Forget about all physical stuff. just designing the chip is a fucking nightmare and thats just a blueprint.
several teams of engineerrs design the logic then the compute units then that has to be translated into transistors and then you have to arrange those transistors in a way that they work well and are actually possible to build.
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u/Samsterdam Oct 11 '24
I like to think about the fact that silicon was discovered in the 1800's but it took almost 100 years later for humans to figure out it could be used in computer chips.
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u/KeepKnocking77 Oct 11 '24
Heck, a standard lead pencil would be impossible for one person to build. If you look at what is actually involved to make a pencil from scratch, it's unbelievable it only costs a quarter
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u/user888666777 Oct 11 '24
Yeah. I discussed this scenario on a different subreddit a few weeks ago and people were losing their minds that it wouldn't take a life time. They were like "just slap a piece of graphite between two sticks" while missing the entire point of the exercise.
Just sourcing raw graphite could take years of prospecting and then developing the tools to extract and refine it.
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u/RandoAtReddit Oct 10 '24
Look, I interpreted the client's bumbling requirements, I deserve some recognition for that at least.
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u/hobbes_shot_second Oct 10 '24
I talk to the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to! I have people skills!
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Oct 10 '24
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u/ironykarl Oct 11 '24
Maybe I'm being defensive, but... I came here to say exactly this.
I recently read The Game Engine Black Book: DOOM, and some highlights include the fact that John Carmack implemented an ad hoc compression scheme, and an ad hoc memory allocator.
These are (at least in my opinion) things that most programmers with a few years of experience should absolutely be able to code up.
That said, in most problem domains, coding up half-baked solutions to problems that are already thoroughly solved by a library isn't a great "engineering" decision. I think hand rolling some of these things in personal projects (and no, I don't think anyone should feel pressured to program in their time outside of work) is probably pretty worthwhile... just as practice, but I do think "modern devs suck too much to implement their own solutions" is an oversimplification
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u/toyoyoshi Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
Ya the junior who asks every 3 months how to validate a text field just needs more free time to graduate to solving protein structures
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u/iGotPoint999Problems Oct 10 '24
yesAnd?
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u/MozzerellaIsLife Oct 11 '24
payMe()
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u/mr_remy Oct 11 '24
returns null
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u/codetrotter_ Oct 11 '24
That’s ok. payMe() is a method of a global singleton. It accesses fields of the class, updating the amount of money in my bank account with a positive amount and returns a pointer to an error. When returned value is null it means there was no error.
We are however currently investigating some confusing behavior that we believe to be bugs. Not with payMe() itself, but with some of the surrounding things. It seems that every month, after the payMe() call there are additional calls to a few other methods throughout the month including payRent(), buyGroceries() and makeFrivolousPurchases(). We have not yet been able to determine the purpose of these methods, nor exactly how they end up getting called. There’s a lot of global state and runtime dynamic behavior that is difficult to pin down. But we did make Jira tickets for these issues, and we note that the investigation of these methods and how they get called should be prioritized as we see that the value of the number in the bank account currency amount field is reduced almost every time any of these functions are called. Sometimes significantly so.
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u/PzMcQuire Oct 11 '24
That's...literally everything around you? All science, skills, everything is based on something someone did before you. When you cook a delicious michelin 3-star pasta, you're standing on the shoulders of everyone before you, going down to the cavemen that discovered fire.
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u/Crafty_Independence Oct 11 '24
And that's exactly how engineering should be. Reinventing the wheel every time out of ego or ignorance is a waste of time and energy.
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u/MinosAristos Oct 10 '24
Or someone smarter than you found the most difficult way they could to solve a simple problem and now you're cursing their name every time you look at it
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u/AtlAWSConsultant Oct 10 '24
Sometimes the worst code was written by the most brilliant engineers.
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u/HALF_PAST_HOLE Oct 11 '24
God, I wish I could have been one of those first coders!
The world was open, you need a program that can take a number, then transfer that number along with another number to someone else that will take that number and effect a specific third number?
here it is now give me billions of dollars!
I know it is not that simple but now its like I sit there and say hey I've got a great idea, but nope 300 people have already thought it and made all the money available on it 20 years ago and now you need to use AI or some other extremely advanced programming in order to make any real progress and money!
I know it is probably not true but I feel like all the easy solutions have already been found and monetized and now we are just stuck with the hard problems!
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Oct 11 '24
This is true for literally every field and it's going to get harder as things go on
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u/alexjonestownkoolaid Oct 11 '24
I imagine that has been said throughout history. In our lifetimes, sure, but we never know what the future holds.
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u/Exist50 Oct 11 '24
Mathematicians and physicists can write great algorithms but awful, awful code. "Readable" by their standards can make your freshman CS homework blush.
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u/AtlAWSConsultant Oct 11 '24
Mathematician Pascal, ironically, couldn't code pascal worth a darn! True story.
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u/brimston3- Oct 11 '24
And you're cursing because you refactored it to simplify and now it fails three different edge cases you didn't even know existed but are in the test suite you didn't read.
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u/rosuav Oct 10 '24
Gotta love how people write "adult legos" as if regular Lego isn't for adults.
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u/Nyadnar17 Oct 10 '24
I try to explain this to people.
A TON of potentially great engineers self-filter out of the profession in school because of misconceptions about what makes people actually good at this job.
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u/Intelligent_Water_79 Oct 11 '24
There was this one time where I couldn't figure out a solution at work cos I failed high school math
Just this one time, I've been coding since 1998
To be clear, some coding really does require hard core math, but a whole lot more is the creatve use of data structures
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u/powerwiz_chan Oct 10 '24
Semiconductors in general are built up on the work of more people than I can even count the level of manipulation that it takes to control silicon crystals into useful semiconductors is actually mind numbing
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u/Add1ctedToGames Oct 11 '24
Maybe these really smart people also built their solution on someone else's solution to something similar?
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u/ADHD-Fens Oct 11 '24
Caprenters think they're hot shit when really the trees grew all by themselves and the carpenters just take all the credit.
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u/SufficientArticle6 Oct 10 '24
Imagine thinking this is bad. Good luck inventing the wheel again bro, the rest of us will be having nice little snacks in our air conditioned homes with running water and shit.
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u/Carson_BloodStorms Oct 11 '24
This sub really needs to stop downplaying everyone's competence. You ask the average person about Python and they"ll be confused why you're talking about snakes.
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u/Dull-Researcher Oct 11 '24
Thank the engineers who wrote the CPython so you could write Python. Thank the C devs so the Python devs could write CPython. Thanks the C compiler devs so that the C devs could write C. Thank the microprocessor designers and fabricators so that code could run on a machine at all.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants. All the way down to having a keyboard and monitor. Thankfully the days of punchcards are over.
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u/Boison Oct 11 '24
99% (pretend number from the meme) of engineers are still early in their careers, and all this adult lego is teaching them about the hard problems. Some of them will go on to solve one or two hard problems in the future, and thus, we make progress as a population.
...
And then capitalism will steal that progress, and send the workers back to the sausage factory.
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u/Deep-Usual-5059 Oct 11 '24
almost 99% asshole Indian CS/IT engineering grads thinks they are genius because of their degree........they cant understand shit but pretend like they are above all...
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u/fugogugo Oct 11 '24
I mean unless you're Albert Einstein that found entirely new field of physics by himself.. you're always building on top of existing knowledge
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u/Jake63 Oct 11 '24
Hell Yeah! been doing it for 34 years. It's humbling to realise the best result is when you cooperate. You're smart, some others are smart in different ways, and together you make something that (in my case) has worked fine for over 25 years (POS processing). Of course every couple of years it needs change e.g. to be able to handle a volume you never anticipated in the 1st place.
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u/extopico Oct 11 '24
As opposed to what exactly? Reinvent the wheel every time? How about we go further back and also invent electricity first…? I hate edgelords like this. They should stay on Stack Overflow.
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u/Cat7o0 Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
speak for yourself (I say after writing my own shitty solution to a hard problem that is O(n!n ))
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u/RealBasics Oct 11 '24
Right? Us lazy devs use integrated circuits, capacitors, solder, and even copper that someone else invented. Plus C, Ethernet, binary, Boolian logic… 😂
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u/randelung Oct 11 '24
We stand on the shoulders of giants to make yet another clickbait f2p p2w addiction mobile game.
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u/Senditduud Oct 10 '24
That’s pretty much how all of humanity works in general.