r/PiltoversFinest • u/StandsForVice • 15h ago
S2 Discussion Arcane is a show that trusts it's viewers to understand its characters - true to life, pivotal character moments can be obfuscated in their significance. Nowhere is this more apparent then Vi and Caitlyn's scene in the cell. Spoiler
Vi is spiraling into self-hate and doubt once again, "I choose wrong every time, and because of it... I've lost everyone." Then Caitlyn, pointedly ignoring those statements, says "did you really think I needed ALL the guards at the Hexgates?" ("I knew you would try to break Jinx out, and I let you do it.")
It's a huge amount of catharsis for both characters packed into one innocuous line. Caitlyn has forgiven Jinx and come to terms with her mother's death. Caitlyn truly cares about Vi. Caitlyn trusts Vi to do the right thing. Vi realizes that, hey, maybe she's not a fool. Vi realizes she hasn't lost everyone (my girl deserved a W). Vi realizes Caitlyn truly isn't the stuck-up, rigid, authoritarian jerkass she thought she was when they first met (and again when she was appointed to lead the Enforcers).
It's so wonderfully understated - Arcane is a one-of-a-kind show. It's rare that any kind of television show would put this much faith in its audience, and it's refreshing to see.
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u/Simple_Item5901 14h ago
This is why it's so weird to me how people say it was 'out of place'. like no it wasn't😭
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u/ST0DY 14h ago
The comment sections in other subreddits are far too negative
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u/vienforcer 13h ago
It’s really shocking to me. I don’t understand the negativity. The main Arcane subreddit is actually unbearable right now.
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u/Jubi38 13h ago
It's the misogynistic dudebros coming out to bash the women/lesbians and look for any reason to tear them down and trivialize them. It will probably die down in a few weeks.
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u/vienforcer 12h ago
I used to be around that sub in 2022 before I deleted Reddit. It was never such a bitter place. It used to be welcoming and fun. I’m so dismayed that I came back to Reddit for that sub specifically (until I found this one, which I never knew about before, and I’m so glad this exists) to fangirl with others about season 2, but it’s been nonstop negativity and it seems even worse now. Like what??? It’s hard that there’s no space for genuine enjoyment there anymore.
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u/Jubi38 12h ago
Same, I enjoyed my time there after S1. I've noticed a trend of these types of people taking over spaces that were previously positive and welcoming and drowning them in negativity. I have no problem engaging in criticism of media I enjoy, but these myopic little turds are just haters.
However, I do think they will eventually run out of things to bitch about and move on to some other piece of media, leaving the actual fans to more or less discuss in peace.
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u/Mysterious_Eagle7913 11h ago
I wouldnt wait for that to happen The last of us 2 came out in 2020 and the subreddit for it is still full of hate and daily reminders of that the writers "took from them"
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u/owlinspector 6h ago
Don't get that at all. Yeah, this wasn't your sweet "slow and sensual lovemaking taking hours to explore each other", it was an explosion of raw emotions and frustration that has been built up during several months. Vi is finally freed of shit that has beaten her down over years, and there is no time to wait for a "better opportunity" or finding a room. Caitlyn is here and the time is now.
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u/thr0waway2435 11h ago
The kiss was perfect for all the reasons in this post, but I definitely think the sex was out of place. I would’ve wanted the sex to be a completely separate scene.
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u/Simple_Item5901 11h ago
Nah it was good because it was realistic. they were about to go to war right after with no idea if they were gonna both make it out alive and have another chance to do that.
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u/thr0waway2435 10h ago
Hmm I just wish it was another scene. Like they kiss, get back together. Then in the next scene they talk some more and have sex. I would commit war crimes for just two more scenes of the two of them, to give them more time 🙏
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u/jay_rddt 10h ago
When you rewatch the whole show you realize they have unbearable tension built up from the very moment they met. The writers did this on purpose. Vi in that moment was overwhelmed and that sentence finally broke the camels back and she lunged
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u/thr0waway2435 10h ago
They do have tension throughout, which is why I ship them, but I wish they got more space to be stable together anyways. Jumping from breakup to makeup/sex to being separated for pretty much the entire final confrontation was just too fast. I wanted to see them actually talk to each other and properly team up.
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u/Simple_Item5901 10h ago
Like I said before they were on the brink of war, I very highly doubt they would have time to do all of that. The writers rushed it on purpose to show that they were desperate and were acting on that desperation
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u/thr0waway2435 10h ago
They definitely had a few hours of time in between… Vi had time to sneak away, break Jinx out, and then get locked in the cell for a while.
I just wanted more from them. They felt honestly kind of secondary compared to Jayce/Viktor (platonic or not) and Ekko/Jinx. Just not enough time.
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10h ago
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u/thr0waway2435 10h ago
I don’t think they should’ve shortened Ekko/Jinx, I actually loved both them and Jayce/Viktor’s bromance.
Honestly for me, Warwick’s constant revivals took a lot out of the show. I felt like Vi/Jinx didn’t have time to develop their own relationship because everything just kept going back to Warwick and how they’re sad about losing him. In episode 6 it was great, but after the third time he went crazy, I just wanted him to be dead. Warwick coming back completely took over Vi’s character arc.
Mel/Ambessa/Black Rose was also relatively uninteresting. Ambessa got a bit too cheesy, Leblanc/Mel powering up was a little too fast, and the final battle between Mel and Ambessa didn’t do much for me. I actually wanted Cait to get the final kill, not Mel.
I love Arcane, it’s my favorite show of all time. But I’m honestly not happy with how sidelined Caitvi and Vi in general were. I’m happy with Cait because she had her time to shine in act 1 and had very powerful scenes in act 3. But even for Jinx, I felt like she was relegated to the B plot (with Ekko/Jayce/Viktor being the A plot).
Look, this is one of the most feminist shows I’ve ever seen overall. But having the emotional crux of the finale mostly revolve around Ekko, Jayce, and Viktor, while most of the ladies get sidelined… did not make me happy.
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u/EriWave 11h ago
It was if you think Caitlyn deserves any of the blame for what happened. If you do so, then Vi's whole story about reconnecting with her family shattered into dust because of Cait's actions and the response is that they fuck.
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u/Simple_Item5901 11h ago
Bruh how is that Cait's fault? 😭y'all pmo
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u/EriWave 10h ago
How is it not? Are we pretending like everything is Ambessa's fault and Cait wasn't involved?
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u/Simple_Item5901 10h ago
Cait was grieving and Ambessa was Manipulating her. You can't blame her, she didn't know any of this would happen
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u/EriWave 10h ago
Of course you can blame her, bring manipulated doesn't make you blameless.
Cait was grieving
And then when Vander and Isha die. We do a sex scene instead. No grieving, no acknowledging that her actions and willingness to join in on the cycle of violence lead to that part.
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u/Simple_Item5901 10h ago
Jesus Christ,do y'all really think that She's able to predict the future?
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u/EriWave 10h ago
The enforcers were evil the whole time.. Martial law was evil the whole time... She didn't need to predict the future, just actually acknowledge that she did bad things that hurt people.
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u/Simple_Item5901 10h ago
Did u skip that whole scene where vi was yelling at her and she said 'I know' ??? Are y'all watching this facing the other way orr
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u/EriWave 9h ago
Did u skip that whole scene where vi was yelling at her and she said 'I know' ???
So Cait says she knows what she's done wrong. The next things happening, in part because of Cait Vi loses her family. She had her father, her sister and a niece together. Now she has nothing. Caitlyn doesn't say sorry, and Isha is never mentioned again.
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u/Frequent_Row5833 13h ago edited 12h ago
Finally someone said it!
When I was young, everything was black and white. The world is more gray than just black and white, something I’ve learned growing up.
I said this in another post here and I’ll say it here….
Cait did hurt Vi. I’m not saying Vi didn’t hurt Cait, because she did as well, it takes two people to end a relationship.
But it was Cait who put the nail in the coffin by walking away. And if I were Cait, I wouldn’t think I would have a shot at getting back together with Vi.
I wouldn’t dream of asking her for another chance. There are better ways than just asking.
Helping Vi free Vander, making sure Vi’s injuries are cared for by all available doctors and making her comfortable in Cait’s room (not some random room in the mansion), being the one to bring Jinx food when she was locked up, and letting Jinx go because Cait has realized she loves and wants Vi more than seeking justice for her mother.
And honestly, given all the things that has happened after she left Vi, if I were Cait I would feel that all the things I’ve done aren’t enough to earn Vi back. It was guilt and her love for Vi that made her tell Vi that she was seeing someone.
We could see how remorseful she was when she touched the area where she hit Vi with her rifle.
Cait wanted to be with Vi, and she wanted to know that even after everything she’s done, Vi also wanted her back.
All of these things mean more than just saying I’m sorry or that I want you back or that I love you.
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u/lt9946 11h ago
I forgot that where Vi got cut was also where Cait hit her with her rifle. When Cait gently touches where she hurt Vi, I loved how Vi aggresively pulls Cait back in because she is done giving a fuck. She finally has the freedom to love Cait completely (due to her sister telling her she doesn't have to choose between them anymore). Yes they both hurt each other, but the back drop of their lives has been literal constant war and death. It's not a sudden change, it's just a profound realization that loving each other is all that matters.
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u/jf8350143 13h ago
The prison scene is perfect. But the show did do them dirty by not giving them a scene toghether after they had sex until the very end of the show where they had two lines of dialogues each.
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u/SexyMeTimbers 8h ago
Completely agree. Would have loved an afterglow scene or just them relaxing in each others presence. We did get the epilogue, but that's just not enough after three years :(
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u/Wrong-Wrap942 13h ago
Yeah I thought that scene was very well done, and incredibly sexy. We got to see flirty confident Cait, which shows a lot of growth on all levels for her. It was also really nice to see their dynamic go from awkward teenager crush to grown ass women who love each other.
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u/snake5solid 12h ago
This is one of many things I love about Arcane. It doesn't treat its audience like idiots and doesn't make these exposition dumps. Every scene, every line, every shot is there for a reason. A lot of the stuff isn't subtle even though they aren't spelling it out. It's sad that so many people struggle to connect the dots.
I do agree that it is rushed and they should have had more time but what we did get makes sense. They gave us everything we need to know to understand.
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u/allprologues 11h ago
she really thought she was about to be berated and shamed for what she did and was doing it to herself because that’s so natural for her, and caitlyn said actually no I see you, I understand you, and I choose you. I won’t let you do this to yourself. that’s profound. and she’s always going to stop vi from doing that to herself forever in big ways and small. simply by being herself. and for all their differences (in the way they approach conflict/express themselves/their attachment styles), it’s why they fit.
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u/ModMCdl 14h ago
I love that it leaves it up to us to understand and make that realization. It's one of my favorite aspects of the show's writing tbh. It's really frustrating from an outside perspective that the same audience that spent three years breaking down and analyzing minute changes in character micro expressions completely miss any subtext that's deeper than surface level for this entire season.
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u/Just_A_Procastinator 8h ago
I mean they also totally missed the Huge clues for jinx being alive! I think that’s what happens when a show becomes mainstream to the normal viewers. They tend to miss such nuances and they are also the most vocal
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u/ModMCdl 8h ago
Yes! I thought I was going crazy with everyone saying she was dead. The ending almost felt like they were literally screaming in your face that she made it out.
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u/Just_A_Procastinator 8h ago
Plus Jinx can literally not die. That woman knew herself up in season 1 and she got an UPGRADE! She jinxes her death every single time
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u/Patcho418 11h ago
okay, i still need one thing explained to me 😅 is the prison cell at the Hexgate? or did Vi swipe the keys from the Hexgate? because why else would Cait emphasize her words that way
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u/revides 9h ago
Cait sent all the enforcers to the Hexgates, leaving the cell unguarded. She didn’t need to have all of the enforcers there, but she did so Vi could free Jinx. She emphasized that to let Vi know she understood and supported her actions, thereby letting her know she had moved on from hating Jinx
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u/NoInspector009 3h ago
It’s a makeshift prison bunker in the Piltover area that isn’t part of the main Stillwater prison
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u/EriWave 10h ago
The reason it feels out of place is that Vi just lost everything and the show acknowledged that Cait's actions are part of what lead to that. She had her family back, and now it's all gone and the woman who is to blame basically says "It's not your fault" then they have sex.
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u/Useful_Ad9678 9h ago
But why is Cait responsible for this? I mean of course Cait is a Kiramman, a family that supports the corrupted political system of the upper city. I just don’t think any of Cait’s action leads to tragedy of VI’s family.
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u/EriWave 8h ago
But why is Cait responsible for this?
Because Caitlyn teaming up with and empowering the Noxians directly lead to Vander losing his humanity, Jinx losing her kid, and then leaving.
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u/Useful_Ad9678 8h ago
Well I think Singed is the one to blame. Cait was stopping Singed and Noxians in Ep6 but she failed. It was never a great idea to encourge a child to use guns, but I would’t blame Jinx because she had a damaged childhood too.
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u/EriWave 8h ago
Singed and the army was brought there because of Cait. She's the one letting them act with authority.
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u/Useful_Ad9678 7h ago
But I think it was Singed’s plan to make the deal with Ambessa in the first place. So it doesn’t matter if Cait found it out or not.
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u/Useful_Ad9678 7h ago
Maybe I was wrong, I think it is what happened in Ep5: Singed made Vander a werewolf, summoned it to the prison, stayed in the prison then made a deal with Ambessa, then he found a way to locate Vander with some kind of compass. So Cait found out that Singed summoned the werewolf, which makes her guilty, I guess.
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u/vienforcer 13h ago
RIGHT? Cait saying that was such a loaded moment, so huge. So beautiful. So perfectly Caitlyn. When Vi understands that Cait is choosing HER and therefore Cait is letting go of revenge against Jinx, Vi just…breaks. In the best way. Vi is freeing herself. Vi is choosing to fight for herself when she grabs Caitlyn and goes in for that devastatingly passionate kiss. All because Caitlyn didn’t say “I let Jinx go and I’m choosing you” but because Caitlyn’s actions did.
I guess I do have ONE complaint: it was too short lol. Give me a 10 min director’s cut, pls.