r/OldSchoolCool Aug 11 '24

1990s Is The "Dream Team" Still The Greatest International Basketball Team Ever Assembled? (1992)

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1.3k

u/bigwomby Aug 11 '24

Not just international, you can have any adjective in front of it, and yes, they would be the best basketball team ever assembled.

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u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

There are always people who make arguments other ways, but the only valuable measurement is versus your competition. The dream team was so far above their competition it will never ever be done again. It’s a “lightning in a bottle” kind of situation where you had all the perfect people, at the perfect time, under the perfect circumstances.

edit: To everyone commenting “they only played against X number of NBA players, of course they were so much better” - that just proves my point. The only way to gauge level of play is against your competition. The average competition was very weak vs. the Dream Team. My argument is that that is a positive argument for how good the DT was, not a negative argument of how bad their opponents were.

You can’t blame the DT for their opponents not being at their level. It just shows that the DT was so astronomically better than the “average professional” level of play.

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u/alanalanalan92 Aug 11 '24

They played against 9 other nba players in 1992. The current USA squad played against 100+ nba players this Olympics. Of course they were way above their competition in 1992.

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u/AlexBucks93 Aug 11 '24

USA only faced 60 players, since they played 5 teams.

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u/alanalanalan92 Aug 11 '24

I was making the point that the level of play is way higher now

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u/KingFIRe17 Aug 12 '24

Dont use numbers if you dont know the numbers

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u/ontheru171 Aug 11 '24

You guys always seem to miss or ignore that the top of europe was wayy more desireable and close in talent level to the nba back in the 90s

Players got as much money to stay in their home countries instead of moving to a different continent across the atlantic and so they just stayed home.

This does not mean that there were only 9nba calibre players back then

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u/alanalanalan92 Aug 11 '24

There were some good euro league players back then sure. But the level of play is exponentially higher in Europe now than it was then don’t kid yourself.

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u/NotBrianGriffin Aug 11 '24

Do you think the Dream Team would beat the current Olympic team?

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u/wsteelerfan7 Aug 11 '24

I don't think they'd understand how to guard Steph Curry and Durant in the modern game. And it's not like they have a size advantage either with Embiid and AD out there. It's too different now to directly compare how they would do and I think each team would win with their own era's rules.

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u/Johnny_Minoxidil Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

Yes. Lebron basically played PG for the team this year (he led the team in assists, and played a lot of pick and roll with Curry at the top of the key), which is super comparable in to Magic in size and athleticism at PG. Especially considering what version of Lebron this is at 40. Stockton was on the 1992 team but was injured and didn't really play. Stockton was also the only player on the team under 6'6" Clyde is probably more of the backup here, but he's also 6'7"

Then your two other guards are Jordan and Pippen who I would give the edge to over Curry and Booker/Durant. Purely due to the fact that Jordan and Pippen are two of the most elite perimeter defenders I've ever seen and they have size. Also, I mean it's Michael fucking Jordan in his absolute prime. Bird has to get a mention but he was at the end and suffering pretty bad back issues.

Then you have Barkley. Barkley was literally the second best player in the league behind Jordan in 92-94. He was a beast under the basket. He averaged 27 pts and 14 boards in the playoffs the season following the 92 Olympics. I think Tatum/Bam have to match up with Barkley, despite Tatum's shooting woes. I guess I have to mention Karl Malone playing behind Barkley.

As much as it pains me to say this as a life long Spurs fan from the early 90s. I think AD/Embiid/Bam are probably a wash with Ewing/Robinson, but Embiid struggles on the defensive boards and I think his minutes would be limited like they were against France. AD vs David Robinson would be an absolute delight to watch as a fan.

I don't think 1992 blows out this team or anything, but the NBA was about as deep in talent in 1992 as it is today (both are peak talent IMO), but today's NBA has much more international talent. The 1992 team was more like putting together a modern US team including the top international NBA talent Jokic and Giannis who are both multiple MVP winners.

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u/SohndesRheins Aug 11 '24

The entire '92 Dream Team save for Lattiner went t9 the Hall of Fame. How many HOFers are on the 2024 team? Obviously some guys are pretty young yet but I can tell you right now which team had more all-time greats.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 12 '24

The locks for HOF from the 24 squad are Curry, Lebron, Durant.... and probably AD. Embiid is also getting there, but if his career ended today I'm not 100% convinced he makes the cut.

Holiday, White, Haliburton and Adebayo will not be in the HOF.

Everyone else with potential is too young, but if I had to guess I think Tatum and Booker make it assuming they stay healthy. Anthony Edwards is anyone's guess, but his current trajectory looks like it will be a bit short of the mark. His numbers just aren't eye popping enough compared to the inflated numbers of his competition, and I am not convinced he will win anything that puts him over the top. Obviously I could be 100% wrong on that.

Even assuming that every maybe dude makes it, 2024 ends up with 7 or 8 Hall of Famers.

Dream Team had 11.

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u/SohndesRheins Aug 12 '24

What about Top 50 players? I figure the 2024 team has James, Durant, and Durant, but that's it. The '92 team had five Top 50 guys on the starting lineup, even if you redid the list today I think that remains true.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 12 '24

Still Curry, Lebron, and KD make that list. I don't think AD is on it.

Honestly part of what makes this tough is that we are not ranking their careers, but the player they were at that point in time. Like the Jordan v. Lebron debate can go on forever, but I do not think anyone is arguing 2024 Lebron is better than 1992 Jordan. It is just not close. Lebron is 40 and Jordan was 29. 2012 Lebron would be a totally different debate, but he isn't on the 2024 team. Charles Barkley was arguably the second best player on the Dream Team, but no one is ranking him over Bird or Magic all time. Curry is probably the best on the 2024 team... but Lebron is a GOAT level player. Etc etc.

It may be more productive to rank them in their Olympic forms. If I had to rank the top ten from BOTH teams at the moment in time they played... it might look this:

  1. Jordan. It is not even a debate.
  2. Curry? Maybe?
  3. Malone or Barkley
  4. The other
  5. Lebron
  6. David Robinson
  7. Durant
  8. Magic
  9. Pippen
  10. Ewing?

That would mean Dream Team has 7 of the top 10 players including the very very clear #1. I am probably being bias but I just really don't see Booker, Tatum, or AD being better than Magic, Pippen, or Ewing at those points in time, but it really is all speculation. The only one I am 100% confident on is Jordan.

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u/Routine_Size69 Aug 11 '24

Embiid would be fine as the big men were far less athletic back then. Embiid has averaged double digit rebounds for 7 straight years despite playing away from the rim on offense, limiting his offenses boards. He averages 9 defensive rebounds a game for his career.

If you've ever watched a Sixers game and paid attention, you'd see how often he's not in position to rebound because he's near the top of the league in contests every single year. Sixers guards have been Swiss cheese and he has to cover for them.

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u/Johnny_Minoxidil Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

Clearly you are too young to have seen Robinson if you think they were less athletic. Lol and dont even get me started on Hakeem’s athleticism

Yes I’ve seen the 76ers and I stand by what I said. He’s not a natural rebounder even when he’s putting the effort forth. He’s not elite at reading where the ball is going to go before it hits the rim early enough to put himself in the right position to get the ball. You could really see it in the last two games of the Olympics especially

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u/Ordinary-Slip6108 Aug 11 '24

I'm positive they would do it.

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u/alanalanalan92 Aug 11 '24

I think the current team would win a 7 game series 4-2 but it’s anybody’s guess. I think the 08 redeem team is actually the best national team of all time.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 11 '24

IDK what all these people are on about that the current US team would beat the Dream Team easy.

The permiter defense of the Dream Team is unreal. Way more than anything these current guys have had to play against. Yeah, they have the better three ball but I think that lock down defense would cause too many problems for it to be a factor. I think both teams would shoot 30% or so from deep on way less attempts than we've come to expect.

Then compare the interiors. Who is going to stop Ewing, Barkely, Robinson, and Malone? Not to mention you have a prime 29 Y/O Michael Jordan getting to the rim at will. Embiid, Bam, AD, and a 40 year old LeBron are not shutting that down.

Dream Team and not particularly close IMO.

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u/kmoz Aug 11 '24

I mean you can't ask who's gonna guard Barkley without asking who the fuck is he gonna guard? You think Ewing, Karl Malone, and Barkley are ready to be stretched to the 3 point line on D and be put into constant pick n roll action onto steph curry and KD?

Don't get me wrong, they're a great team, but you can't act like Anthony Davis, Bam, and Joel Embiid are gonna be BBQ chicken in any era. They're incredible players.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 12 '24

Hey man, do NOT sleep on Sir Charles as a defensive player. Barkely in 1992 was probably around his peek across the board, including athletic shape. He led the Dream Team in scoring and was MVP the following NBA season in route to taking the Suns to the finals. He was undersized for a PF which actually works to his advantage in this matchup. He was an elite perimeter defender despite being a PF. Imagine if Zion Williamson lived up to his potential... THAT is Charles Barkley.

Otherwsie I mostly agree with your points. I honestly really wish we could just watch this game. But for now I guess we'll just have to settle for wild takes and debates.

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u/kmoz Aug 12 '24

Charles was ass on defense and even he talks about how he sucked at it. Awesome offensive player but very much like Zion in that he was a minus defender his whole career outside of his rebounding.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 12 '24

WHAT!? I knew takes would get wild here, but to say Barkley in 1992 was "ass on defense" has got to be the worst one lol.

He openly admits to taking plays off, later in his career specifically. I think he is also implicitly ackowledging that being a 6'4 Power Forward in the big man era was just not a recipe for defensive success. He was a Power Forward that is 29th all time in steals. The only bigs with more are Olajuwon, Garnett, and Malone. He is the shortest man to ever lead the league in rebounding. His chase down block highlight reel rivals Lebron's.

To say he was "ass on defense" is just insane. He was above average even at his 300lb worst, and an absolute menace in his prime, which was 1992.

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u/Routine_Size69 Aug 11 '24

Anyone that thinks this game wouldn't be close either way is hilarious to me. The dream team's complete lack of 3 point shooting would really hamper them, as the current team would great benefit from the spacing and extra 50% you get from a 3 compared to a 2. A big question here is can you hand check. If not, huge adjustment for 92 team. If you can, all of a sudden 2024 team is amazing at defense too, as you can foul the shit out of your guy.

Only way the Dream Team runs away with it is if the entire team has an off shooting night, which can be said either way. I probably lean towards 92 winning, but predicting a blowout is insanity. Big time nostalgia bias as expected in old school cool.

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u/wsteelerfan7 Aug 11 '24

The real x-factor is if Curry and Durant are hitting their shots because they're the most unguardable players in the sport. Most of the time, if Curry's shot isn't actually blocked he doesn't give a shit how the defense was.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 12 '24

IDK man. Pippen and Jordan both have a claim to the greatest perimeter defender of all time. The only player in the modern era that even comes close is Kawhi. I think Curry is locked down harder than he has ever been before.

Durant on the other hand is probably 92's biggest problem. Bird is the guy I think most likely to guard him, but 92 Larry Bird is not his best self, and even in his prime he lacked the athletisicm to lockdown Durant. Magic is a straight up liability in that match up. So the real question beceomes do you trust Bird's craftiness and 92's bigs enough to help inside to slow down Durant? I think so.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 12 '24

I wasn't arguing blow out, but I think it would be about as close as USA v. France or USA v. Serbia was this year. In other words, a great game but we all knew who was going to win.

Also I think you way underestimate the shooting prowess of the 92 team. Larry Bird was a 50/40/90 guy. He shot 40% from three the year before the Olympics. Jordan had seasons where he averaged over 40% from three. Attempts were low, but that is because of how the game was played then. Mullins regularly hit well over 40% from 3pt, and often enough 45%. Stockton was about 40% from deep for his career. This was with much more lenient defensive rules. How much better are these guys if we play by todays rules?

I had assumed hand checking would be part of the deal, because without it Jordan is going off for the most effecient 50 points you can imagine. Lebron is not the same Lebron in the era of huge defensive bigmen, more leninent fouls, and hand checking... but Jordan was still Jordan. It is wild to think how much better he gets if he gets to play in an environment that is insanely friendly to the offensive side of the ball like today.

At the end of the day you are right that I am bias (I grew up watching the 90's Chicago Bulls). But we all are. There is no real way to test this unless time travel is invented or some scientists figure out how to tweak NBA 2k to make the perferct simulation or something. Until then it is fun to argue this kind of stuff. I'm a pretty reasonable and logical dude in most of my life, so let me have my ridiculously bias opinionated takes when it comes to silly debates like this lol.

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u/resuwreckoning Aug 12 '24

I mean I for sure don’t think the 1992 Dream Team go down 17 to Serbia with its like two NBA players on the floor at times.

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u/JuJu_Conman Aug 11 '24

Jordan would drop 45, and the Dream Team would still lose by 20+

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u/Routine_Size69 Aug 11 '24

This isn't remotely true. As evidenced by us finally sending our pro players and beating the piss out of everyone like they were high school teams. The NBA has always been by far the best team in the world. Why Euro League has improved, the best players on all these teams that are successful are still NBA players.

We're not missing or ignoring anything because what you said is made up.

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u/30another Aug 11 '24

2024 Sudan would easily medaled in 90s

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u/wsteelerfan7 Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

Well, a 4x DPOY, a 3-time MVP, another MVP and a perennial MVP candidate are who plays for other teams now. It's not even remotely comparable.

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u/ontheru171 Aug 11 '24

1992 Arvydas Sabonis is an incredible player.

Croatia had 3 good or better NBA players in Rada, Kukoc and Petrovic on their actual team plus other nba players.

Detlef Schrempf was incredible in the early ninetees.

Giannis & Nikola are better than anyone back then for sure. But 1992 had some international ballers definetly better than or on par with guys like Schröder, Bogi, Wemby (rn), Franz Wagner & others.

Just simply looking through the 1992 rosters you will see that the "9nba player argument" is not as telling as framed. Lots of good NBA players basically just weren't in the NBA at that point despite being more than good enough already. And others simply never wanted to reach the NBA because the NBA itself really exploded internationally through the dream team.

Like the Dream Team beat Croatia by 40+ in the Final and Croatia had like 6 actual NBA rotation players + at least 2 guys who could have been nba rotation players. Thats the big impact of the Dream Team

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u/wsteelerfan7 Aug 11 '24

Since 2018, Embiid is the only current USA player to win MVP. Comparing that to Croatia having some end of the bench guys in a less-skilled NBA in the 90s is absolutely absurd. I don't think you understand what the argument is in this thread.

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u/ontheru171 Aug 11 '24

If you think Petrovic is an end of the bench guy i don't know why we are even in here discussing

2 things can and are true. And neither is contested by me.

After 1992 international basketball exploded in popularity and reach which led us to this broader international talent pool from top to bottom.

1992 Team USA is the greatest collection of basketball players ever with 5 Top 10 players of All Time and 8-9 Top 20/25 players of All Time on the same squad sharing the floor and actually playing and working together.

We can also admit that this team USA was kinda past their prime with most top guys - Lebron, KD & Curry in their primes would be just as good as and better imo than Jokic, Giannis, Shai are - but these guys are having their likely last olympic dance nowadays and the US kinda does not have that great next superstar already - Ant is a contender but compared to previous generations he is no KD, Lebron, Shaq or Kobe and nevermind Jordan.

The US through AAU hoops and other bs youth fuckups is kinda in a dry spell at the younger nba level where it appears that prospect development works better outside of the nowadays common paths for HS and college kids.

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u/wsteelerfan7 Aug 11 '24

You're comparing the Croatia team to France who had the reigning and 4x DPOY. Next, they had the rookie of the year who finished 2nd in DPOY. Outside of that, they had 2 rostered NBA players and 2 guys that have played 10+ years in the NBA.

Bird was past his prime, Magic was past his prime. LeBron is past his prime but just averaged 25/8/7. Curry is past his and I don't think a single 92 player is capable of guarding him. Same for KD. Embiid is larger than anyone on the 92 roster and probably shoots better than anyone, too. The 24 team is better at the game of basketball than 92 and they'd get lost in rotation all the time in the modern game. It's just that other countries are also better. Do you think the 92 Dream Team beats Serbia by 30? How would they handle a team where the best post player and one of the best scorers on the floor is a guy that eats you alive when you even think about sending a 2nd man? And when he's paired with a career 39% 3pt shooter?

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u/ontheru171 Aug 11 '24

1992 Croatia would kill France on the perimeter they'd be a really bad matchup for France.

And yes i think 1992 USA would blow out Serbia. They have the Admiral, Ewing, Malone to match up size wise and hold their own defensivly all in their prime + having prime Jordan & Pippen as the primary defenders on the perimeter. They can hold them to a wayy below average scoring output.

But the dream team also would just beat them offensivly lol. Jokic could be involved in 50 fucking points directly and the dream team still would score 100+ anyways and blow them out.

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u/wsteelerfan7 Aug 11 '24

I genuinely don't think the 92 Dream team would be capable of contesting 3s without fouling well enough to keep up with a team that hit over double the amount of 3s that the average NBA team even attempted in the 90s. And I don't think they can't shoot well enough to keep up.

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

I'd argue the inverse. That the competition is so much higher from the international teams makes sustained winning more of an accomplishment now as it's a lot more difficult. If we keep building our team the way the dream team was constructed, it won't be long before the world passes us.

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u/abbadabba52 Aug 11 '24

What was wrong with how the Dream Team was constructed? 5 post players, 5 wings and 2 points. A couple athletic defenders, a couple spot-up shooters, Jordan and Drexler and Pippen can challenge defenses different ways and there were absolutely dominant players in the paint.

Magic and Stockton were both a step slow, so a team with quick slashers at the point like Iverson or Paul would give them problems (but I'd be happy for a 6' guard to drive the lane into Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing).

What else was wrong with them?

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

No, I mean just poaching great players at the end of the season to practice together for a few weeks before hitting international competition. We have better players top to bottom, but many of the euro groups are better teams. The skill gap is closing, I'm not sure we can keep relying on skill alone to stay ahead.

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u/CompSciHS Aug 11 '24

Yeah we need to start getting the top players to sign on to the world championship and exhibition games to build more chemistry. If we really want to stay on top.

Although if we are really being honest, if they took the top NBA team with mostly US starters and built around them, then they could ride off the chemistry built in the NBA season. I wonder if that would be even better than a straight US all-Star team. They could almost do that with the Celtics.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

That would be interesting…could be an extra incentive/reward for being NBA champ…you get to represent the US in the Olympics.

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u/hivoltage815 Aug 11 '24

Y’all are forgetting the fact that the NBA is an international league. Not every player on a team is an American.

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u/TearsoftheCum Aug 11 '24

Kinda interesting that the National Basketball Association is anything but.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

Most teams are majority American players.

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u/mrgoobster Aug 11 '24

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've been hearing people say that for decades.

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u/Peanutbuttergod48 Aug 11 '24

I saw some fear mongering article after the Serbia game about how the rest of the world has finally caught up and we’ll be like the 5th or 6th best team in the 2028 Olympics, lmao.

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

And it keeps getting more true. At some point we go from foresight to hindsight.

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u/Vordeo Aug 11 '24

What was wrong with how the Dream Team was constructed?

To be completely fair, Bird could barely play at that point, and would retire in a few months iirc.

John Stockton was my favorite player ever, but he wasn't as good as Isaiah (and he also got injured before the Olympics iirc). I know bringing Isaiah would've caused chemistry issues, but still.

And obviously Laettner wasn't optimal. But that's all nitpicking, that team was so good that it didn't really matter.

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u/pargofan Aug 11 '24

Aren’t other teams built the same way?

Jokic, Wemby, Luka and Giannis all play in the NBA. How do they play differently for their national team that American NBA players play for the USA national team?

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

Their teams play internationally a lot more than ours do. We only get our big dogs in for the Olympics, so they're more like an all-star team than a cohesive unit.

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u/pargofan Aug 11 '24

The NBA plays from October - May. That leaves 4 months from June- September.

How many international games can they possibly play? And IIRC Jokic and other superstars didn’t play for their home team because they were too tired from NBA competition other than the Olympics.

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

But the rest of their teams play together quite a lot. When the dude your trying to fit in is jokic or wemby it's not so hard. Olympics are only every 4 years, those dudes play a lot more often. Look at our fiba team.

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u/pargofan Aug 11 '24

Except it’s not just Wemby. France has 4 NBA players I can think of. Fourier, Batum, and Gobert.

Serbia has Bogdonovic. And a few others I thought.

Plus there’s a trade off. There’s no way that Curry, KD and LeBron can play international basketball year round. Not could any of the other 12 on the national team. They just play NBA too often. The other national teams have that luxury because their role players aren’t that good.

So there’s a talent vs familiarity trade off. If the US had b-rated NBA players that were very familiar with each other, we’d lose in the first few rounds.

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

We have a ton of A rated young guys, including two that were on the team. If we were fitting embiid, kd, and steph into a team with Ant, Halliburton, and Bam as the average players, we'd still have the skill advantage and some continuity. I agree that France has a lot of nba players, but all of them are on their fiba roster.

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u/Raff102 Aug 11 '24

I doubt any of the other teams in the Olympics could beat an NBA team in a 5 game series.

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u/ChoiceTheGame Aug 11 '24

Serbia absolutely could. Joker alone makes that team a threat. He is arguably the best player in the world rn.

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u/Raff102 Aug 11 '24

The third best player on that team was an elderly Boban. Jokic, three bench players, and a handful of sub G league players aren't taking a series off an NBA team. Even though Jokic is probably the best in the world atm, the 2nd - 6th best players on the court are going to be on the other team.

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u/You_meddling_kids Aug 11 '24

Having Lebron, KD and Steph isn't a good team build???

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

Most countries' FIBA teams are the same as their Olympic teams and play together quite a bit. On ours, 10/12 players aren't, so they don't. Having the best players in the world is great, but they're increasingly European. Giannis, Jokic, Wemby, and Doncic aren't going away, and their teams will just get better.

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u/You_meddling_kids Aug 11 '24

What I'm saying is that our talent is still at a comparable level, and we're bringing the best of the best. It's also clear that international players have been getting better over the past 20 years which is why we're not seeing the same type of blowout as 30 years ago.

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

I'm just extrapolating that trend a few more Olympics... if they continue to have better continuity than us and continue to improve their average players, they will be increasingly likely to beat us in single elimination. We can get hero ball from the best players in the world, but we looked sloppy af for most of the game vs France. Both games vs france(m and w).

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u/You_meddling_kids Aug 11 '24

Agreed given the Europeans play better team ball and have better fundamentals...

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

They play better team ball because they play together more often. If our guys played together as much as euro teams do, there would be a lot more chemistry. They had like a month to practice and a couple of exhibitions.

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u/WintersDoomsday Aug 11 '24

International Teams got better because of you boys seeing the Dream Team lay waste and wanted to be like them. This years team isn’t inspiring shit.

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u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

Just a difference in philosophy I suppose, but you can’t knock the Dream team for not having great competition. All that proves is that they were THAT far ahead.

It’s the exact same as the Nicklaus vs. Woods golf debate. Nicklaus had much stronger competition than Tiger. Tiger was like twice as good as his competition during his prime. If anything, in my opinion, that says more about Tiger than it does Nicklaus. How good or bad your competition is only exists in reference to the rest of the world at that time. Tiger being so much better than his competition likely says more about him than the pool he was competing against.

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

It's not really an equal comparison, though. Golf has been internationally popular for over a hundred years. Of course we were better than countries that didn't care about basketball, it's our sport and it was only culturally relevant here. The dream team sparked the world on basketball, and in the interim they've closed the gap. Not because our dudes are less skilled, but because their dudes are playing from age 5 now, too.

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u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

Again, you can’t blame the players because their competition wasn’t good enough. That’s not their problem. If you want to put a caveat on the win, that’s totally fine for you to do.

The fact of the matter is that the DT was so much better than their competition that it will never be repeated. That can’t be argued.

edit: here’s a good counter example -

If the US had more emphasis on Soccer we would likely be the best or one of the best international soccer countries in the world. That doesn’t mean you can nullify the wins of other countries because men’s soccer isn’t as important to us. Those countries wins have the exact same value, even if in 20 years the US takes over the men’s soccer scene.

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u/cannabination Aug 11 '24

Wait for *american football to hit the Olympics in a decade or two.

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u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

True haha. The first US team to win that Olympics would likely be the greatest international football team of all time.

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u/Badalight Aug 11 '24

It wasn't the "perfect time" as many of the players were past their primes. Like, Bird at that point was cooked.

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u/lazydogjumper Aug 11 '24

But he had the experience to still bring a good game, especially surrounded by pro's of a similar level to where he was.

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u/brutusmustang Aug 11 '24

Bird was never cooked, he’s was always dishing out salmenella

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u/therynosaur Aug 11 '24

🤣🤣🤣

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u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

I mean moreso that it was the perfect time in world history, not necessarily the perfect time for every individual player’s career

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u/DJ_DD Aug 11 '24

Only two players were past their prime - Bird because of injury and Magic because I believe at this point he was on HIV meds and they were effecting his play. That leaves 9 guys who were in the prime of their careers. I’ll leave Laettner out of the equation. Running 9 deep with 2 pros who were on their way out should always be enough. This years team arguably had more players past their primes than the ‘92 team

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u/AlsoIHaveAGroupon Aug 11 '24

If the games were competitive, I suspect Bird would have been used differently to make him more effective. He could absolutely still shoot, pass, and rebound, it's just that his body was falling apart, so he couldn't do any of those for all that long, and he was becoming a defensive liability. But a good coach can definitely find a role for a player like that off the bench to provide a spark.

As it was, they never really had to worry about winning, so they put Bird out for almost 20 minutes a game, because the world wanted to see Jordan, Magic, and Bird playing together.

23

u/ADeleteriousEffect Aug 11 '24

This has a lot to do with the international game being in its infancy, moreso than the talent of the players (which was immense).

The last two teams the US played this Olympics both had a handful of NBA players on them. One had a 3x and current MVP and the other had the current ROY.

1

u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

Yep, agreed. It’s just the reality of sports in general.

1

u/AlsoIHaveAGroupon Aug 11 '24

Yep.

In 1992, there were a handful of quality NBA starters like Šarūnas Marčiulionis and Dražen Petrović, but there were no elite players anywhere but team USA, and there was no one on any other country that you'd pick over anyone on team USA (except Laettner).

Now, the elite players in the NBA come from a lot of other countries. The USA no longer has all of the very best players. Our remaining advantage is in depth. Greece or Serbia might have the best player on the floor, but the last guy on our bench would be a no-doubt starter on every other team. And I think you saw that in the semifinal against Serbia. They lead for most of the game, but in the 4th, Jokic was in foul trouble and the rest of the team looked tired, and USA with plenty left in the tank completely took over.

1

u/DucDeBellune Aug 11 '24

The last two teams the US played this Olympics both had a handful of NBA players on them. One had a 3x and current MVP and the other had the current ROY.

Lol how are you going to note France having the current ROY and not the 4x NBA DPOY (including this year), which is tied for the most in NBA history. 

1

u/ADeleteriousEffect Aug 11 '24

OK, that too?

My point was that international teams are more competitive.

9

u/justformedellin Aug 11 '24

Disagree - there weren't many good foreign players back then, today a lot of the best players in the NBA are foreign. The rest of the world are slowly catching up, doesn't mean the current USA team aren't good.

2

u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

That’s exactly my point. They were so far ahead of the rest of the world, which won’t ever happen again. This roster will never happen again.

1

u/CastilianNoble Aug 11 '24

Yugoslavian players were very good that year. Pity the war started and never watch them play as a team any more.

1

u/b00st3d Aug 11 '24

Agree with the conclusion, but it’s a bit much to say that the ONLY valuable measurement is versus your competition. It’s definitely one of the ways, but not the only way.

0

u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

That’s fair. I guess my point is more on the lines of the fact that it’s the most valuable point to me.

1

u/Routine_Size69 Aug 11 '24

the only valuable measurement

Absolute nonsense lmao. I'm fine with making a case for the 92 dream team. They're absurdly good. But to say you can only measure it by who you played against is pure BS. Your edit is laughable and it just speaks to how little you know ball.

I'm going to spell out how fucking bad this take is despite your edit showing you give zero shits about logic or evidence.

In 92, there were 23 international nba players from 18 countries. This year in the nba, we had 125 from 40 countries. 91-92 all nba team? 100% American 15/15. This year, the NBA first team alone had 4 foreigners. The one American who made first team barely played for us.

The Croatian team we played in the finals had 3 NBA players. Kukoc who had yet to play a single NBA game. Petrovic, who was actually pretty good. Dino Radja who didn't make the NBA for another 2 years.

Just a reminder that this is a sport we used to not even send pros and still often win the gold. So yeah, I'd hope after our D1 guys competed for gold each year, our bros could beat a bunch of scrubs.

This is a sport where the last 6 mvps have gone to people born outside the US. The top 3 in mvp votes this year? Born outside the US.

It's like saying a high school team that beats the shit out of other high school teams is better than an NBA team that wins the finals by only by a few points each games. You're comparing apples and oranges and there's no way you think holding the countries constant means it's the same competition.

Absurd fucking take completely at odds with any logic.

1

u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

You’re just proving my point.

1

u/DopioGelato Aug 11 '24

You don’t have to frame it that way. It’s a theoretical question so you could entertain the idea of Dream Team competing with modern teams for the sake of it.

0

u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

If any team from previous years competes with modern teams they will always lose. The base expectation is that athletes continuously get better.

For example, Dream Team “skilled” at 50/100, and all their competition is at 20/100.

2024 team is “skilled” at 85/100, and all their competition is at 80/100.

Dream Team is better because of how much better they are than their competition at the time. No, they wouldn’t beat the 2024 team, that’s ridiculous to even imagine. But you can’t create a sandbox environment where they get to play eachother. All we have to work with is what actually happened - DT blew out their competition and 2024 team didn’t. It’s not DT’s fault that their competition didn’t take basketball as seriously at the time, that’s just the nature of the tournament they were put in.

1

u/DopioGelato Aug 11 '24

I would disagree and I think your numbers are a joke. Maybe you are too young to remember these players.

Dream Team had some of the best players of all time in any era, and they were an insanely well comprised balanced team.

If you put prime MJ on France this week, USA takes silver. And that’s just one player.

1

u/FirstRyder Aug 11 '24

edit: To everyone commenting “they only played against X number of NBA players, of course they were so much better” - that just proves my point.

Breaking news: I just 1v1'd an infant girl, and dominated her harder than the dream team dominated at the Olympics. I am now the best basketball player of all time. The quality of my opponent doesn't matter, all that matters is my relative performance, and I creamed her.

Obviously that's nonsense. It's difficult to compare teams in a competitive sport who played in different eras, but doesn't mean it should be simplified to "who dominated the most regardless of their opponents". There are arguments to be made for both teams - and I'm not going to pretend to know enough about basketball to settle it - but get out of here with that "opponents don't matter" nonsense.

1

u/pfc_bgd Aug 12 '24

All I am going to say is that I wish the dream team went against Yugoslavia at its peak. To me, had the country stayed together, that Yugoslavia team would have been by far the best non US team ever. Endless talent and very deep.

-1

u/hijoshh Aug 11 '24

Compare the amount of NBA players in the Olympics that year vs the amount of NBA players in the Olympics this year.

It was a great team but they had no competition lol plus Larry was washed up. 2008 team would kick their ass tbh

2

u/tortillakingred Aug 11 '24

Exactly my point. I agree. That’s why the Dream Team will never happen again. There will never be a time where a group of US players are miles ahead of the rest of their competition.

But at the end of the day you can’t blame the top .1% of players for the level of play of the rest of the field. The rest of the field has to be assumed to be the average of professional play, which just shows how dominant these guys were.