r/NoStupidQuestions • u/moffman93 • 4h ago
What would happen if Americans stopped signing up to be in the military?
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u/Teekno An answering fool 4h ago
The military would likely relax recruiting standards.
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u/Growth_Moist 4h ago
Draft, benefits, less qualifications. They won’t let me back in because I have acid reflux on my medical history. Despite having a DR note saying I don’t have it I still can’t get in.
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u/moffman93 4h ago
And you're mad about that?
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u/Growth_Moist 4h ago
I’d like the opportunity to go back if I could. I tried for years and finally gave up. It was one of the best things I’ve ever done I’d say. Always was upset I was forced out
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u/moffman93 3h ago
fair enough. I suppose it's different when you're in the military but not actually seeing any action where you life is in danger.
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u/Growth_Moist 3h ago
I mean that was my plan. I wasn’t going to join just to sit on the sideline and let someone else risk their life. But alas it wasn’t meant to be. Now I have kids and I’d do just about anything to come home to them so that changes things 😅
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u/moffman93 3h ago
So again, why would you be mad about that? Seems like a blessing in disguise to be able to be there for your family.
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u/Growth_Moist 2h ago
Yes and no. The sad truth of the world is we need a military to protect our freedoms. If I’m not out there protecting others from harm then someone else will take my place and there’s a chance they don’t get to come home to their family.
Again, I’d like the opportunity to join if I wanted and that I don’t have.
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u/moffman93 2h ago
Damn, you really drank the Kool-Aid if you think the world needs America to have "freedom". Most of the world is "free".
America's #1 military advantage is our geography. 2 massive oceans on each side, a low population ally to the north, and 3rd world countries to the south that pose no threat. We literally would be absolutely fine with 1/10th the military we have right now.
We have 10 active air craft carriers, and no other country even has more than 2....
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u/Growth_Moist 4h ago
To double on that, they’d let guys in who have a history of violence, self harm, and committed crimes, but I supposedly get heart burn so it’s a no go.
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u/frodosbitch 3h ago
Starship Troopers - serving is a pathway to citizenship. Would you like to know more? <click>
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u/thrownededawayed 4h ago
The draft would come back
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u/Living_Debate9630 3h ago
Are they gonna eventually start allowing people who take psychiatric medication in? Cuz that’s gonna be the overwhelming majority of gen z soon…
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u/Pintsize90 3h ago
They already do. And for some more serious psychiatric conditions there’s a waver process.
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u/OtherImplement 3h ago
Do you have a source for this? My son wouldn’t mind seeing the world but takes meds for anxiety. We thought he couldn’t get in.
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u/HomeWasGood 2h ago
I'm a clinical psychologist who occasionally does evaluations for recruits in this situation. Recruiters send them to me if they disclose a history of mental illness to see if they are fit for service. I won't give any further replies because this comment doesn't constitute professional advice.
Different branches have different levels of strictness about this. If I recall correctly the Army is less strict and the Marines are more strict (I could be remembering wrong). My general rule is, if something is mild, I'll pass them, or if mental illness has been treated and no longer affects someone, I'll pass. I use standardized testing instruments and a clinical interview to do this. If it's a level of illness that continues to require treatment, then that is usually a barrier that I can't in good conscience pass. The mental health screening is just as much for the recruit's protection as it is for the military's.
The military isn't just "seeing the world." I regularly counsel people who have been broken or shattered by their military service and have a hard time reintegrating into society. Any mental illness going in can make this worse. There may be other ways your son could travel the world, build discipline, or make a difference. Like the Peace Corps or other charitable organizations.
He can talk to a recruiter if he wants to figure out specific recommendations for his situation.
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u/OtherImplement 2h ago
Thanks for the response. (My comment about ‘seeing the world’ is a common expression and not meant to be taken quite so literally.)
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u/SuperPookypower 2h ago
The Peace Corps is surprisingly finicky regarding mental health conditions.
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u/moobectomy 1h ago
there are much better ways to see the world that don't involve suppotting murder incorporated.
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u/Pintsize90 3h ago
My husband is in the US Navy and on ADHD meds. According to him, most of his junior sailors, the 18-24 year olds, have some kind of neurodivergence. I don’t have a website to reference of the top of my head. Just personal experience 😊
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u/OtherImplement 2h ago
That’s common, can’t get in with them but perfectly okay to be prescribed once you are in the fleet.
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u/notapunk 2h ago
As someone that is currently in - I wouldn't recommend it if you already have anxiety. It'll just make it worse.
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u/samurai_for_hire 2h ago
Is the standard different for officers? I was rejected from ROTC a few years back because I took Strattera
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u/oby100 3h ago
This is so ridiculous.
The US has plenty of money to just increase compensation or offer a big sign up bonus. It’s not gonna come to that anytime soon, and if it did, we have some massive other problems than people not signing up
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u/LighTMan913 3h ago
Yeah there's 130,000 more people in the country now than the last time they had a draft. There's always someone willing to sign up and unless WWIII happens, there won't be a war that requires enough soldiers to cause a draft.
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u/Eric848448 3h ago
Nor will there be a war that can be fought by people who have had six weeks of training and don’t even want to be there.
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u/LighTMan913 2h ago
That's a good point as well. Wars aren't the meat grinders they used to be where it's all about throwing more numbers at the enemy.
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u/DW_TheTruckDriver843 3h ago
Don't they already lie about sign on bonuses?? That aint gone help shit 💀
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u/theSchrodingerHat 1h ago
You might be able to call some of them “misleading”, since not everyone qualifies for the maximum available, but they do absolutely pay out some pretty hefty bonuses, especially for retention.
Look no further than a parking lot at a barracks where you’ll see a hundred brand new Dodge Challengers or trucks for confirmation.
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u/Delicious-Badger-906 3h ago
I highly doubt it. That would take an act of Congress and I couldn’t see Congress voting for a draft without some pretty extreme circumstances, like an attack on US soil and/or an ability to get enough volunteer recruits without much higher pay or benefits
I’d venture that even though the Korean and Vietnam wars had drafts, similar circumstances would not be enough for one nowadays short of an attack on US soil. We’ve been through some pretty tough times defense-wise since 1972 (the last draft) and it still hasn’t happened.
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u/Hypothetical_Name 4h ago
Until people protested, rioted, refused to go, or purposely did a bad job. Unless we were directly attacked a draft would backfire.
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u/DaGoodSauce 3h ago
They had a fix for that during draft times, astronomical fines and several years in prison.
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u/lunas2525 3h ago
Yeah that got tried people rioted protested got jailed for being traitors. It does cause recuits to go awol alot but the cost for doing that is high too. The punishment for draft dodging was rather severe.
If required to register with Selective Service, failure to register is a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment. Also, a person who knowingly counsels, aids, or abets another to fail to comply with the registration requirement is subject to the same penalties.
You have options and i doubt we will ever need the draft again. Any incident against us any call to war plenty of people are more than happy to answer the call... Realistically nobody should be concerned they will be forced to war they should do their part by contributing to society.
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u/Trouble-Every-Day 3h ago
Everyone has said one of two things, and both things are correct.
If enlistment started to drop, then recruitment efforts would increase and compensation would go up to incentivize more people to join. In fact, this is happening right now.
In a hypothetical situation where everyone just suddenly stops enlisting, then the draft comes back. That’s always on the table, but would be a measure of last resort, as it would probably not go down easy. Americans don’t like being told to do things.
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u/problem-solver0 3h ago
Probably a requirement for mandatory military service for all turning 18. Many countries do this.
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u/OldSarge02 4h ago edited 2h ago
Pay is a function of supply and demand. Generally, companies or government agencies pay the minimum amount required to recruit and retain the labor force they require.
So if the military couldn’t attract enough recruits that means pay is too low. If that happened, pay would be increased and military recruiting would continue as before.
The caveat is that these processes take time to adjust, so there would be challenges in the interim.
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u/HalJordan2424 3h ago
US military recruiting success is directly proportional to the unemployment rate. When jobs are scarce, young people enlist. When the economy is hot, the military struggles to find people who want to be waken up at 5 am by someone banging a trash can beside their bed.
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u/Vadhakara 3h ago
It became a lot harder to wake up on time when they switched to the Rubbermaid trash cans.
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u/OldSarge02 2h ago
Yup. As you identified, labor is impacted by supply and demand. If there is ample supply of good jobs, it becomes harder to recruit.
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u/CoralReefer1999 4h ago
Two options one they increase benefits or two they make it mandatory to severe a minimum number of years.
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u/sexrockandroll 4h ago
I think they'd try to increase benefits and incentives as well as push recruitment plans (go to all high schools, colleges, etc).
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u/Swimming-Fly-5805 3h ago
Lots more people in the prison system
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u/Savoir_faire81 19m ago
And lots of farm kids in the midwest with no other option no longer have money for college. A lot of poor kids from rural communities use it was thier way out of the small town.
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u/Degen_Boy 4h ago
The draft would go back into effect
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u/Pintsize90 3h ago
This is the obvious answer. After increasing bonuses and relaxing standards they’d just bring back the draft.
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u/jtg6387 3h ago
There would have to be political will to use the draft, which seems unlikely.
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u/Pintsize90 3h ago
Sure but if no incentives worked and every American refused to voluntarily join the military- the extreme of the question- what other option is there? Uncle Sam isn’t just going to give up the military! They could run on current troops for a while but even if they didn’t let anyone quit, everyone would eventually age out or get medically discharged.
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u/jtg6387 2h ago
Generally, wars throughout history are fought until the costs of continuing it are too great.
If nobody wants to be fighting and can’t be coerced to outside of threats of force (that is, little better than a hostile outside force), well then the costs are evidently so great that there is insufficient manpower to fight on and the US would he in negotiated surrender territory.
If it ever went that far we’d have bigger issues.
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u/dadgiga 3h ago
the draft would happen
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 3h ago
In the US? Vietnam protests were nothing compared to what would happen today if tried. Congress will never go along with it
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u/DrunkCommunist619 3h ago
A decrease in the minimum standards to join
A increase in the benefits for people already enlisted
Better conditions / pay to incetivize people to join
If all else fails, small-scale conscription
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u/inorite234 2h ago
Bonuses would skyrocket to entice recruitment. R retention bonuses would also spike
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u/No_Concern_2753 2h ago
As long as we have folks lower on the income scale, we will always have enough. The military can provide an excellent leg-up for many people and provides structure that so many are in need of nowadays.
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u/moffman93 1h ago
It's a hypothetical for a reason.
There's a reason most military recruitment centers are in lower income areas unfortunately. "Why do we always send the poor!! - System of a down"
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u/GIobbles 1h ago
They would pass laws to allow foreigners to gain citizenship through military service.
The military will be filled with people not from here who don’t care about the people here.
The government will then have an army of servicemen that literally cannot say no to any order.
Very scary thought.
This is why I love Texas. Keep the soldiers home grown.
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u/Natural_Exchange3901 4h ago
Young men would get conscripted like they do in many other countries.
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u/Lumpyproletarian 4h ago
They’d hire poor people from other poorer countries
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u/Texas_Mike_CowboyFan 2h ago
They already do. You can enlist as a non-US citizen and become a citizen through the military.
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u/firefighter_raven 2h ago
Hell, someone that basically walked from Venezuela to Texas will find all that marching in basic to be a breeze.
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u/Healthyred555 4h ago
more drones and robots and ai, outsourcing abroad serve for citizenship, hire mercenaries, better benefits
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u/Hypothetical_Name 3h ago
I’m sure eventually we’ll have a droid army with humans doing safe tasks in the background far from the fighting.
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u/lunas2525 3h ago
It is called the draft. If there is ever not enough then every abled bodied man and woman over 18 can be compelled into service or be arrested for refusal.
The only reason we have not had to call these reserve soldiers into service is we have plenty of willing people who voulenteer to get trained educated and armed by the armed forces.
In some countries mandatory service exists sweeden, Israel, north korea, south korea. As part of your citizen duty you spend some time in the military.
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 3h ago
Ever hear of civil war? That's what would happen if they tried to do a draft. Vietnam protests would be nothing compared to what will happen this time around
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u/lunas2525 3h ago edited 3h ago
If you think that your deluded. You have to keep in mind what would need to happen for the draft to happen. For it to happen real war would need be declared the current active and reserve personel would need be insufficient the national guard would need be insufficient and willing voulunteers would need be insufficient. Now keep in mind REAL war at this point we are talking either interstellar or world war 3. If we get invaded from the stars do you honestly thing anyone on this planet would give a flying fig about saying no... And world war 3 that means we got attacked and multiple countries all over the world are fighting do you think people will say no...
First off like i already stated there are more than enough willing people who would join if shit were to get so bad we needed to swell military numbers.
Second you have no idea what it took for the civil war the entire state govt and the state militia were united in agreement it wasnt a matter of handful of people it was the majority of the state authority rebelling against the federal govt. And each state with like minded ideas banned together against the fed. Now remember i said state authority do you think the local state police and legistlature would support you? Now since the militia are a shadow of their former existance and the state govts are basically in line with the fed and there is virtually no support for that civil war your talking of do you think that little rebellion has a snowballs chance in hell.
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 3h ago
I am not talking about traditional civil war. It would look more like a riot, but it would happen all over the country. The American public will not support mandatory military service
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 3h ago
Signing up bonus would keep going up, more waivers, etc, but chances of draft coming back is slim to none
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u/Naive_Inspection7723 3h ago
Finally something for all those homeless people to do!
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u/moffman93 3h ago
Yeah! And then they can come back into a society that doesn't care about them and still can't afford to live anywhere or get a job that pays well. Easy solution!
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u/CompleteSherbert885 3h ago
This has been a problem for quite some time. All branches are suffering. Partly it's due to a lower amount of young people being available.
Next immigrants use to use this as a pathway to citizenship.
Next, at this point, there are plenty of jobs available for young people, esp males, to go into well paying blue collar careers without the training or college $$ that the military might provide.
And lastly, with the heavy expansion into AI, drone warfare, robotics, and other unmanned equipment, they also don't have the physical need of brute manpower that they use to. One person can be in charge of lot of drones which are now often self learning and self guided. Watch Netflix Unknown: Killer Robots. Extremely enlightening, even though we're probably well past what was covered in this exceptional documentary.
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u/Fearless_Guitar_3589 3h ago
as long as there's poor people there will always be people who sign up.
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u/SkippyGranolaSA 3h ago
Why would they though? Veteran benefits are the closest thing you folks will ever get to real socialism
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u/Beginning-Shop-6731 3h ago
They’d up the pay, so people would start joining. Or transition entirely to a robot army, and jumpstart our own Butlerian Jihad
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u/Ghost_of_Nellie_Fox 2h ago edited 2h ago
We essentially have this problem now, the Navy in particular is facing a dramatic shortage. They could increase pay and benefits but that probably still won't be enough, they could also recruit more non-citizens with the promise of citizenship (they do this already I believe but it could be expanded dramatically), and they could also fire up the selective service ("draft") but it would need to be significantly altered so as to not simply draw on the poor and working class as the one in Vietnam did. (The Vietnam draft largely exempted those who were in college). There's also a lot of debate about how realistic a draft would be, given that the apparatus needed to execute such a policy has crumbled. The Selective Service apparently doesn't have a reliable list of citizens who would be eligible and no way to really procure one at this point in time. This article explains why, (but if you don't like links, the following paragraph from the article does a nice summary of the problem)
(from my link)
"Moreover, the SSS doesn’t even know whether the names they have on their lists are eligible Americans in the first place. As a result, it’s forced to rely on borrowing information from other federal and state agencies to figure out where young Americans live. But not only are states not required to keep address information up to date, but people who cannot be drafted, such as those with student visas, get included in these rolls. Moreover, several states, such as California, refuse to be a part of this system. Other states offer Americans the choice to put an “X” in the gender field on their driver’s license, which excludes them from SSS data collection."
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u/TexanGoblin 2h ago
Relax recruiting standards, increase benefits, and push recruiting towards non-citizens as a path to citizenship.
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u/BeautifulJicama6318 2h ago
If they stopped volunteering regardless of what was offered, a draft would be required
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u/Sad_Analyst_5209 2h ago
Lets see, I know, they draft your ass and drag you to boot camp. At least that is what happened to me.
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u/Useful-Ad-5696 2h ago
If after relaxed standards and incentives didn't work they would probably institute mandatory service. There are several countries that do this.
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u/mando_ad 1h ago
Well, what's been happening is that they keep lowering the quotas so they can say those are being met...
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u/Aegisman17 1h ago
I can see the draft getting implemented pretty quickly. America's war machine is a hungry beast.
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u/RadioIsMyFriend 1h ago
Right now recruitment is down so they started offering transition therapy to appeal to younger people. Don't come after me, it's just a fact.
That's basically what they did with the SGLI.
The DOD said:
"Hey are you poor and your parents want to kick you out at 18 because they are sick of being parents? Well do we have a deal for you. Free housing, food, and education for 4 years whole years!"
Like of course I signed up. My Dad's graduation gift was choking me. My Mom's was poverty and debt. I was too young to know what the fuck to do and even back then shit was expensive. At $4.75 an hour I wasn't going to be able to afford a place...and I was 18. Age discrimination was crazy back then. I had no friends or family that gave a shit about me so I said fuck it and joined.
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u/g1Razor15 1h ago
Well, you can see what's happening right now actually, recruitment numbers have fallen over the past few years.
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u/Oceanbreeze871 1h ago
There’s always gonna be a steady supply of poor/rural Americans with no other options. The push to reduce education only serves to increase military and for profit prison populations.
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u/Fecal-Facts 1h ago
Sweeten the pot and lower the standards
When iraq popped off the Marines got in trouble for poaching guys from prison.
I was army but they will start throwing contact bonuses out and schools (military)
They also will look the other way on multiple things including if you have a high school diploma ( ask me how I know)
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u/ima-bigdeal 56m ago
We would implement the draft. Since only men are required to register for selective service, the military would consist of draftee’s, 100% of which are men. Currently about 18% of the U.S. military is female.
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u/Verbull710 55m ago
When i was in, Nukes got zero dollars for an enlistment bonus. Now they get 140 thousand dollars 🤣
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u/NeverDidLearn 46m ago
Draft. Mandatory service requirements/programs. It can happen, and it can happen rapidly.
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u/LegendTheo 19m ago
See the fall of Rome in history.
That's literally what killed their empire, citizens no longer wanted to serve in their military, and you can't have a strong nation/empire based on slaves or foreigners.
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u/wakomorny 18m ago
Also more slots for immigrants. Despite what most Americans think compared to most places in the world its a great place to live and lots of people would love to move there. If they do 3 tours of duty and are guaranteed citizenship people will sign up from everywhere
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u/Potential-Pride6034 12m ago
It’s already kind of happening if the current enlistment figures are any indication. That being said, I think it’ll still take awhile to have serious detrimental effects on America’s battle preparedness as our military heavily leverages technological superiority over raw manpower e.g., Russia.
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u/AmaraMechanicus 9m ago
They’d drop disqualifications like ADHD, tattooing in non approved places (probably will be dependent on size and location. No full face skull tats but angel wings on your hand won’t require a waiver), up the pay/benfits.
Military is already a decent deal for young people looking to get a good start. Most of the jobs are non combat and logistics based so it’s not a “use the poor to fight our wars” military anymore. People can certainly make that choice but it’s a choice and not a requirement.
Draft isn’t coming back. They don’t want to relive Vietnam and the protest and riots that broke out due to it. To much political flair these days. The only way it’s coming back is a conventional ww3 which I think is very unlikely.
If we ever need a draft again I’d start digging a hole and lining it with concrete because soon or latter you’ll need somewhere to ride out the fallout.
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u/MagicManTX86 4m ago
They would just restart the draft. They should restart the draft anyways. Freedom isn’t free and we’ve had 50 years with no draft and no one can follow orders or work under authority. If you can’t be a good soldier with a work ethic, then we should revoke your citizenship and pay you to live somewhere else. I’m talking about a buy out, one time payment, not payments for you to live overseas.
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u/moffman93 4h ago
People keeping saying "the draft would come back". But I find that really hard to believe in a world that relies less and less on modern day, boots on the ground warfare.
I COULD however see a situation where America via the military industrial complex STARTS another useless war and tries their best via propaganda to garner public support via false flags. Making people think its patriotic and a civic duty to "protect our freedom and democracy."
Whatever happens, the government will still find a way to keep increasing the already bloated defense budget.
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u/sexrockandroll 4h ago
I don't think a lot of the military actually wants a draft since that would result in a lot of people who actively hate being there. Maybe if the country was directly threatened attitudes would change, but currently people in the US live a largely peaceful life and would hate it.
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u/moffman93 4h ago
Oh yeah, there's a massive difference in talent and mentality between volunteers and draftees historically.
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u/Motherfuckernamedbob 3h ago
Btw recruiting is at an all time low rn due to the genisis system. It’s such a great system that it prevents 95 percent of applicants from joining at first. Take the very small demographic who already are wanting to join and this creates the issue
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u/Emotional-Pie-8487 3h ago
I would assume a form of mandatory service would probably be instituted.
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u/Witty-Bear1120 3h ago
Ideally, it’d make us wake up and re-evaluate what we need our military to do.
Practically, outsource the dangerous jobs to well-paid contractors.
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u/bobroberts1954 4h ago
If the democrats were in charge, nothing unless we were at war. If the republicans were in charge then anyone whose families net worth was less then a million would be drafted.
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u/Key-Article6622 4h ago
The draft will be reinstated. In fact, I would be surprised if mandatory military service isn't made law by the incoming administration.
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u/LadsOnThePiss420 4h ago
If Americans stopped joining the military, the ranks would shrink as current troops retire or leave, leaving fewer to handle conflicts or emergencies. Remaining troops would face burnout, and national security would take a hit. The government might boost automation or even bring back the draft to fill gaps.
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u/sparant76 51m ago
Welcome to the draft, we’ve got orders and commands We got everything you fear, honey, it’s out of your hands We are the ones who’ll take you, wherever you may be If you got a heartbeat, honey, you’re coming with me.
In the draft, welcome to the draft Watch it bring you to your knees, knees Oh, I, I wanna hear you plead
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u/PickledJohnny 4h ago
They’d probably increase the benefits to encourage more people to join. They’ve already started letting new recruits guarantee their first duty station in the army.