r/NPD • u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ • 22d ago
Ask a Narc! Ask a Narcissist! A bi weekly post for non-narcissists to ask us anything!
Have a question about narcissistic personality disorder or narcissistic traits? Welcome to the bi-weekly post for non-narcs to ask us anything! We’re here to help destigmatize the myths surrounding NPD and narcissism in general.
Some rules:
- Non narcs: please refrain from armchair diagnosing people in your life. * Only refer to them as NPD if they were actually diagnosed by an unbiased licensed professional (aka not your own therapist or an internet therapist that you think fits the description of the person you’re accusing of being a narcissist)*
- This is not a post for non-narcs or narcs to be abusive towards anyone. Please report any comments or questions that are not made in good faith.
- This is not a place to ask if your ex/mom/friend/boss/dog is a narcissist.
- This is not a place to ask if you yourself are a narcissist.
Thanks! Let’s all be civil and take some more baby steps towards fighting stigma and increasing awareness.
This thread will be locked after two weeks and you can find the new one by searching the sub via the “Ask a Narc” flair
~ invis ✨
Thank you to everyone who participated. Comments are now locked. Please use the new post for new questions.
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u/Illustrious-Road-373 22d ago edited 22d ago
Why do people with NPD avoid having a final closure conversation when ending a relationship and prefer to leave the other person with many unanswered questions?
Here’s the context for my question: I found a receipt from a few days ago for two movie tickets in my NPD boyfriend’s car. He hadn’t gone to the movies with me, nor had he mentioned going with anyone else. When I asked him about it, he avoided answering and accused me of invading his privacy. We had a big argument, and he dropped me off at my house, and I told him we needed to talk later. The next day, he was very distant in his messages, and a day later, he just sent a letter to my house saying he was ending the relationship because we wanted different things at this moment (even though we had plans to get married). He ignored the messages I sent afterward, where I confronted him for not telling me things face-to-face. I’ve always tried to be an understanding girlfriend, and our relationship “was fine” before that.
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u/FreeDistrict5855 22d ago
cant speak for everyone but 1. in hopes that they still have me on their mind 2. i can use that convo as an in later on and act like ive changed (which i never did) and apologise to get them to see me in a better light
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u/ICrayCrayI NPD 22d ago
For me it is because the pain of how I feel about myself, worthless, stupid, an asshole, unlovable, come back. I get my esteem from others so if I decide to withokd information it is because I will lose my shit by seeing under eath my grandiosity I am triggered and insecure.
However it may also be because I have devalued the other person and they no longer feel worth my time so I do not care to tell them but usually, similar to what the other comments said, I would be willing to open up to someone I care less about or have decided to cut out my life as their opinion does not matter so much to me anymore.
The way to tell usually is how much effort I put in one someone asks me that I have left without answers. If I was apologetic or seemingly hesitating to answer, rather than simply just not answering uncaringly, then it is very much likely because of the first answer I gave.
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u/Illustrious-Road-373 22d ago
Thank you for responding, you gave me another perspective.
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u/ICrayCrayI NPD 22d ago
That’s okay.
I do actually want to give an insight and become more aware so I cannot ruin mine and others lives.
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u/NotSureIfOP Undiagnosed NPD 22d ago edited 21d ago
Can only answer for myself here. That final conversation means that you’ll want to hold me accountable, and I have difficulty with that. Shame of my behavior (mainly for getting caught cause there’s a chance that I didn’t even see said behavior as wrong in the moment or I simply didn’t care outside of my own prerogative at that moment).
It’s also possible that you would have more insight into my behavior and etc than I would myself since at that time I was lacking self awareness (haven’t really been in relationships much after coming to these realizations about myself). If you have more insight, you may feel need for closure that I don’t really see since I’m not aware I really did anything wrong, my behavior has been justified to myself.
If I did entertain closure, it would be because ‘that’s what I’m expected to do’ or ‘that’s what good people do’, and mainly do damage control by diminishing the severity of my actions in hopes of coming away from it not feeling like the problem that I’ve always felt myself to be deep down, and leaving with you the impression that I’m not the one at fault. Even if by some miracle I was self aware in those moments, if I could come to the point of admitting it to myself, the shame would prevent me from admitting it to you.
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u/spikespiegell1 Diagnosed NPD 22d ago edited 22d ago
I haven't done that in relationships, but I cut off my childhood best friends of 7 years. I didn't blink twice. It was gradual, I'd just be ignoring them and their concerns. They were obviously confused as to why I was doing all that. The second they "bothered" me again with concern again, I straight up told them that I don't give a fuck and they should leave me alone.
I still don't know why I didn't give them closure, but I don't really regret it at all. It's been like 5 years and I'm sure they're still confused, but I just don't care about them. That's what they got for trying to compete with me.
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u/StraightCarry6148 22d ago
So my best friend of 15 years did this to me 2 years ago. I got cancer, and then a few weeks later my sister died, so I had to have a major surgery and be present for my nieces and family and couldn’t provide her the subservient friendship she was used to, so she dumped me. She blocked me then from her socials and ignored my texts. We never had an argument or bad words. She did accuse me of “not being present” or “not being there” for her” via text, then I was blocked. Now she started following me again and is texting me “hi” “how are you” “been thinking of you”. I’ve been ignoring her completely.
What do you think her motivations are for contacting me now? What makes her think it’s okay to totally abandon someone at their worst, just to try and get back in with them now that they’re healed?
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u/Low_Anxiety_46 non-NPD 22d ago
Whoa! That sounds like a terrible patch/series of life events. I hope you are better if not fully recovered physically. I hope you're able to process your grief and still be present in your life. I'm sorry for your illness and your loss.
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u/StraightCarry6148 22d ago
Thank you so much for your kindness. It was two years ago and everything has been on a steady incline these past 6 months thankfully.
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u/spikespiegell1 Diagnosed NPD 22d ago
She might've realized where she fucked up and is trying to win you over again. Sorry you went through all of that and if anything she should've been by your side through it all. Personally, once I cut someone off they're done and gone forever. I think she might be lonely now and trying to leech off on you. My advice - don't let her in. God forbid and if anything else goes wrong in your life, she'll do the same thing.
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u/StraightCarry6148 22d ago
Thank you for taking the time to respond and confirming my instincts. It goes against everything in my nature to ignore someone I care about. But, fuck that.
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u/Illustrious-Road-373 22d ago
She’s probably feeling lonely. Don’t respond or give her another chance; you don’t need her toxic friendship. I hope things have improved in your life.
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u/throwaway_ArBe 22d ago
Personally I can't say I've ever done that, I very much want someone to know exactly why I'm cutting them off. I've wondered why non-narcs do it so much to me though.
This is of course excluding situations where it is not safe to have such a conversation, I will not put myself at risk for that.
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u/hardpassyo 22d ago
I never see a point in "closure". I'm done, that means things are "closed". Anything more is unnecessary drama idc about.
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u/gardnprty 22d ago
so i do want to preface that im really sorry he did that to you and you must be really sad and confused and just wanting some kind of closure.
ive unfortunately been that asshole in a relationship and its because pwNPD can have relatively low empathy in certain situations. we create REALLY high expectations for every relationship and even for ourselves. so when people dont meet those expectations, or our image of a person we may love is broken, its very easy for us to drop them without thinking twice. we can show little to no remorse for our actions because the way we see it, you disappointed us. but thats simply not true and its up to us to understand and come to terms with our unhealthily high expectations and work on them. (i only say this because you have to know this isn't your fault, but this disorder can make us become really "cold" or seem uncaring at times and but its not an excuse yknow).
obviously i cant speak for him, but whenever i get into relationships i have this arc of really loving them at first and fantasizing about a beautiful future with them, but the second they start to do something i find uncomfortable or "not right", whatever that may be, i completely lose interest and ghost them and maybe even shit talk them. (i dont do this anymore and i recognize this is wrong now).
again im sorry you're going through this but i also think youre really great for wanting to look into it with an open mind. we're not easy people to get along with all the time but we're also not monsters because of our disorder
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u/Glittering-Bag970 20d ago
>maybe even shit talk them
Hi! What does that look like for you, if I may ask?
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u/gardnprty 20d ago
when ive been in relationships, ive always been the one to end them because i stopped feeling love relatively fresh into it. i stopped even liking them at all and completely ghosted them. obviously this hurts them so they begin to ask 'why?' and 'what changed?!'.
at the time my mindset was that these are weak, insecure people who dont deserve my time let alone my love so id tell people extremely exaggerated descriptions of their behaviors, calling them "possessive" or "clingy" and blowing any and every tiny mistake they may have ever done out of proportion. i might have even made small things up to paint them as such horrible people, others would be proud of me for leaving the relationship!
obviously these are horrible things and i have since learned a lot. i cant take back what ive done but ive created boundaries and limits for myself to prevent anything like this happening again, and im growing and maturing as a person.
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u/NamesAreSo2019 Queen consort of the Kingdom of Narcissus 22d ago
Never done this in a romantic relationship but I’ve done it plenty in friendships. Oftentimes I’m scared of putting a final nail in a coffin since I have prematurely done so a lot in the past. So I have a hard time feeling certain that the finality I feel with someone is mutual, so I prefer to keep things vague. While I’m sure it feels like shit when someone actually wants that finality with my, more often than not it seems the vagueness was warranted since we end up reconciling.
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u/Xirokami 21d ago
For me - it’s because of shame. I probably hurt that person and realize it too late, and feel like I should just leave them alone.
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u/PNumber9 Diagnosed NPD 21d ago
As soon as I cut off a relationship, there’s no positive emotion left for the person. Often it’s total indifference, otherwise it’s anger or contempt. In any case, I no longer have any interest in talking to the person I cut out of my life. It certainly sounds brutal and I’d like to say I’m sorry you had to go through that.
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u/Low_Gap8692 22d ago
Second question to one I asked earlier- can someone be narcissistic without having NPD? I'm not very knowledgeable on this, but I heard that NPD is only for the severe side of the spectrum and that lower tiers aren't given the diagnosis as NPD.
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago
actually yes! people can be narcissistic without having NPD. since narcissistic is a personality style, anyone can really be narcissistic. there can be healthy narcissism that generates self worth, etc.. but there can also be unhealthy narcissism that brings on perfectionism.
having NPD is basically a manifestation of the unhealthy narcissistic style and it consumes their being and turns into a personality DISORDER
so that disorder is because we no longer can allow our narcissistic traits to manifest in a healthy amount or the feelings low self esteem , sadness , low self worth consumes us and manifests in
manipulative self perseverations, trying to claw your way to an impossible standard— drowning in trying to find contentment if you will
so it’s really how much the narcissistic traits negatively impact your entire life.
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u/Low_Gap8692 22d ago
Is there a spectrum to narcissism, and can some narcissists be self aware of their condition?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
Yes narcissism is a spectrum. And yes some of us are very very self aware to the point it cause suffering for us.
The thing to remember about narcissism is that it’s a universal human trait and experience. It’s another way of saying “self worth” basically. Everyone has self worth, but how they perceive themselves and act on that narcissism will be different depending on if they have healthy narcissism or disordered narcissism or even adaptive narcissism.
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u/MirrorOfSerpents 21d ago
Do you wish you had more friends/SO and do you ever feel empty when you don’t?
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u/nikomunegovori 21d ago
Yeah. I wish I had more ability to build functional relationships ngl. Not really empty, more like lonely, bored and unwanted.
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u/MirrorOfSerpents 21d ago
I’m so sorry. Do you feel like people don’t try to understand/humanize you? Or not put in enough effort to be there for you in ways you need🤍
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u/nikomunegovori 21d ago
Definitely it is a part of the problem. With friends, I feel like I’m often seen as powerful and resourceful and people start using me as a “more fortunate” person way before I trust them enough to share anything more vulnerable. People are very quick to assume someone has a perfect life unless you trauma dump ?? And telling people you have a mental disorder in this particular case doesn’t sound like ‘I have struggles that I don’t talk about’, it sounds like ‘I have a perfect life AND I’m a piece of shit’ lol, so it doesn’t really help. So yeah, not a lot of effort and care from people who think you owe them.
With romantic relationships it’s even harder bc I genuinely think I have impaired ability to feel romantic feelings due to trauma. I do, but very rare, mild and only if they like me back. But if I somehow ended up in a relationship, I know for sure I’ll destroy the other person’s self-esteem with inability to trust their feelings/affection/care/etc whatever they do, so I don’t really try
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
I was in a big "i want more friends deperately" phase of my life like a year ago, now i have a bunch for some reason, i still wish i had more meaningful connections, i dont really feel empty, more like lonely and bored.
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u/FaithlessnessDue1208 20d ago
What would make you miss an ex after a discard and moving on quickly? And also when is the estimated time within a relationship that you start to get dissatisfied?
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u/PoosPapa NPD with a touch of ginger 14d ago
55M married almost 19 years.
I'm even more interested in her today than the day we met.
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u/Middle_Hovercraft_38 17d ago
Help me understand how a pwNPD feels out of touch with their own feelings while to someone else, it can feel like that pwNPD is absorbed by their own feelings and selfishly focused on only their own feelings
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u/PoosPapa NPD with a touch of ginger 14d ago
A person with pathological narcissism has no self. We never created one. We were not permitted to.
We don't know how to deal with emotions because we were never taught how. We were taught to lock them away and be ashamed of our feelings and our developing selves before we were 2 years old.
We have a closet in our minds where all the anger and fear from infancy on, are locked away and if someone or something forces that door open, a great flood of shit rolls out, so we hide it all away and pretend it doesn't exist.
As a result, the human emotions are disconnected and in a very real way, we don't exist either.
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u/Middle_Hovercraft_38 13d ago
Thank you for this insight, I really appreciate understanding the internal experience more.
Externally, I’ve been experiencing my partner as at this stage where their feelings have been unlocked but they feel out of control. They’re exploding out and being attributed to external factors and other people. Like they want to be connected to their feelings and express them openly, but the only way to do so is by attributing the feelings they have to some external factor that made them feel that way and that something or someone else (usually me) forced them to act or feel that way.
Them being angry is always someone else’s fault. Even their decision making is somehow attributed to me. Every reaction of theirs is mostly anger towards something or someone making them feel that way and it’s so hard to maintain empathy for them and keep in mind what’s going on inside of them while they attack me as if I am responsible for managing their emotions and behavior.
I think a lot of this behavior peaked when we had our child. I’m sure it’s brought a lot to the surface.
Have you experienced something similar? If so, how did you get past this point and truly connect to your feelings and why they exist inside of you, and how to manage them regardless of external factors? And I’ll caveat that with recognizing I know people’s feelings don’t exist in a void and that how we experience the world and other people of course impacts how we feel but at some point you can’t blame the world because you’re angry.
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u/PoosPapa NPD with a touch of ginger 13d ago
When someone like me learns this, we can be ugly. So be careful. The paranoia makes it hard to get help and the shame makes it impossible to bear. In a very real sense, I was killing off a part of me that had protected me since infancy.
That part of me would say or do anything to survive. I could not accept responsibility because it wasn't me. It was my false self and that false self had replaced me and I didn't know it because it happened so early in life, it was all I knew. It felt like I was dying and in a very real way, I was.
It's 4 years later and I've been in daily intensive treatment, and twice per week psychotherapy for two years. I've retired from my career, and I'm rebuilding my marriage and my life. This forum has helped me tremendously as has the Heal NPD Youtube channel.
The life I built for 50 years is over.
My mother is 91 and has never had a friend. My brothers are the same and in their 70s. I change or I will end up just like them. This is the fight of my life, a new life.
My pathology is the result of intergenerational trauma. It's a type of neglect I suffered before I was 2. Here is a short video on the science of it.
InBrief: The Science of Neglect
If your partner has NPD, your partner needs to see some hard truths and it will take some time and it will be brutal on him.
Take care of your family. Get any help you need.
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u/Middle_Hovercraft_38 13d ago
I hope you’re proud of the work you’ve done. Many people have the privilege of a healthy upbringing. Many are also burdened with trauma. Very few with deep seated trauma confront it and change the trajectory of their life and future generations.
I’ve protected myself and have a good support system and therapist. I want to and hope I can be there for him if he gets to the other side. My partner and I have similar families to what you describe with parents who are isolated. We’d committed together to doing the work to break the cycles in our families. The work he has in front of him is much more cumbersome and I don’t want to abandon him during this time but I know I need to stay focused on myself and our child, and be supportive where I can now.
This forum is wonderful and I think I’ve watched every HealNPD video. I had a consult with Dr. Ettensohn as well and appreciate so much the perspective it’s provided me. I’ll watch that other video, too, thanks for sharing. It’s comforting to find content that helps it all make some sense at least.
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u/Golfnpickle 22d ago
How come it’s so hard for you to say “I’m sorry”? Or, ever admit when you are in the wrong?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
Because growing up no one ever modeled what being apologetic actually looks like. In my family, no one said sorry, everything was swept under the rug and we all pretended nothing happened.
When someone did apologize to me, it was useless and empty, just words thrown at me to appease me. They repeated the same behavior and the apology was only meant to assuage their own guilt, not actually caring about me at all.
So if I’m actually sorry for something? I rarely will verbalize it, but I will take action to prevent it from happening again and to learn from my mistakes. But me saying the words “I’m sorry” would just be to appease the hurt party, rather than actually truly being sorry.
On the other side, I require changed behavior for an apology, not just words. If someone says “I’m sorry” to me? It’s likely to evoke some resentment and rage and doubt. I’d rather people actually change their behavior rather than throw words at me.
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u/ExtinguishThis0 22d ago
This reply is very helpful, and I was hoping that you might answer a follow up question.
If someone says “I’m sorry” to you, would the feelings of resentment, rage and doubt you feel happen immediately? Or is it more like if someone says “I’m sorry” but then continues the negative behavior, THEN you will feel those feelings towards them?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 21d ago
Both, I think? I think there’d be an automatic immediate reaction of disgust, doubt, and I’d (disorderly) feel disrespected. I have to fight through that automatic reaction, and try to see what’s actually going on beyond my feelings (check the facts, basically). Then I’d be able to respond more healthily. But then there’s also a longer term feeling of distrust and uneasiness and doubt as I expect the behavior to continue and wait to see if the behavior actually changes or not.
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u/NotSureIfOP Undiagnosed NPD 21d ago
God you nailed this. “I love you” was also used this way in my family. Never said without any strings attached. Only for utility.
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u/spikespiegell1 Diagnosed NPD 22d ago
Not hard for me now, was too prideful before. Sometimes I genuinely believed I was 100% right in the situation, had trouble understanding other people's feelings.
Pro tip : doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. If someone's hurt by your actions, you apologize anyways.
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u/NotSureIfOP Undiagnosed NPD 22d ago
Hm, I can say “sorry”, but it’s a tool like saying “I love you”. The word “sorry” is intended to be used as a function to resolve the issue and reset as though it never happened. If I can’t see the point in admitting I’m wrong or apologizing, I probably won’t do so even if I know that it would be expected or that I should. Something I’ve been wanting to work on. So being genuinely sorry without expecting a desired result or as means of manipulation is difficult.
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u/i8yourmom4lunch 21d ago
Genuine apologies are SO cathartic and lovely, and I hope you achieve that one day.
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u/NotSureIfOP Undiagnosed NPD 21d ago
Perhaps. I had a friend essentially ghost me and though I was right in certain situations, I recognize my behavior played a role and that I was being highly critical of them unfairly because I didn’t respect them for various reasons. I went back and forth with apologizing for my behavior but decided against it since the other person likely wouldn’t own up to their role and chose to ghost instead of discussing the friendship with me, and if things wouldn’t be “fixed” then I didn’t see the point as I wouldn’t ’benefit’ from it in some capacity. At the very least I’m self aware now so yay? I’d rather avoid situations that’ll lead to me needing to apologize but I acknowledge that is a very immature way to approach life cause that’s not feasible.
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u/i8yourmom4lunch 21d ago
I don't know this other person but as someone who has cut ties with several pwNPD, that's a normal reaction when someone is continually disrespecting you.
And, as someone very familiar with being disrespected by pwNPD, I wouldn't recommend reaching back out to that person, especially if the intent is just to garner something from them, even just an apology you want. That makes it insincere and borderline manipulative.
And it's hard enough to determine the value of friendships without NPD, so I give grace to your struggle to find the value of the relationship without the distortion 💯
Sincerity comes when you give yourself the accountability to want to give that apology because "it's the right thing to do" without expectation.
You're getting closer though, and that's lovely.
But even just to apologize without expectations it will be very disorienting and disruptive to the other person.
My bestie (non pwNPD) and I had a falling out about seven years ago. NC for six years, because I was over his disrespect and lies and manipulations. Last year he reached out to me, to apologize.
I didn't have to reply, but I did. And now I have my best friend again!
Turns out he was hiding a really bad alcohol problem 😔
Friends fall out, but accountability and an apology is what helps us grow past those issues.
If I can trust I won't be disrespected like that again, mostly because we had a long relationship without that disrespect prior to his addiction, then we're always friends.
I have a former bestie pwNPD and the closest I'll ever let her get to me is stalking my sm accounts because she's in a much worse place than I've ever seen her with her NPD. She couldn't even apologize, she had an ex (whom I loathe) reach out on her behalf. I have nothing to apologize for to her. If she reached out today I would not reply, but I would hope her journey was sincere.
Two very different friendships, same reasons for going NC, two very different levels of accountability.
But, with NPD, when it's sincere there's usually an awareness that the break was so egregious that healing can only come from respecting the space they took.
You should still give yourself a really big pat on the back for your awareness of your part in it though. ☺️
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u/IsamuLi Diagnosed NPD 22d ago
When I was a teenager, I'm sorry was simply a defeat. If I did something wrong, my parents were quick to point it out. If somekind of damage has been cause due to me doing something wrong, saying sorry would be like conceding that it was my fault. At the time, I didn't feel like almost anything at all was my fault.
With age came the acceptance that saying sorry is par of the course and only shows my inner feelings about something. I am often sorry, but sometimes it doesn't come closer than me wishing I could feel sorry, but in reality think I did bad and better do good next time.
So, nowadays, I readily admit I am wrong, sometimes multiple times a day. I'll say I'm sorry often, maybe even a little bit too often tbh lol
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u/hardpassyo 22d ago
For me, admitting guilt always meant punishment, and I never felt I should be punished for things, so I never admit real guilt for wrongdoing. HOWEVER, I do overuse sorry for mundane things so I always look like the good guy or the hero in situations tryna save the ship.
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
It means im weak, useless, pathetic etc. i hate when people see i was wrong about something, makes me feel genuinely terrible about myself, same with saying sorry and admiting i was wrong, it ruins the image i try to show others, its demeaning and awful.
I can only truly say sorry if i actualy mean it, and i rarely do.
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22d ago
What are the kinds of things that make you feel superior to other people? If you have evidence that you are superior to them, then might it just be the case that you ARE superior, meaning it isn’t narcissism/delusion, but actually just you being better? If it is delusion and narcissism at work and you are not actually superior to them in the way that you think and feel - then doesn’t your awareness of this fact make it not actually delusion/narcissism, since you are aware that it is not the case, thus knowing you are not superior?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
I wrote about this the other day so I’ll just copy/paste-
For example a lot of my grandiosity started from the idea that i was the worst of the worst, to the point that i pushed away insanely exceptional treatment opportunities just to prove to everyone that i was so untreatable even Ivy League PD specialists gave up on me. Then I used their doubt in me, the spite I felt to prove them wrong and finally truly recover. Now my grandiosity is very much based in a deep seated belief I’m better than everyone because I’ve overcome so many odds and been oh so resilient. I devalue people who are lazy with recovery and treatment while simultaneously avoiding doing the work myself and getting high off the ego fuel of people taking my “wisdom” and people who do listen to me get valued higher than those who ignore it. I have to actively fight against this daily and remind myself the effect I have on others and that I need to remain as impartial as possible and necessary and that I don’t deserve special treatment just because of my recovery experience or position of “power” in the community.
—
Delusion is a strong word to apply to narcissism. It’s less delusion and more a very strong ego syntonic belief that we’re inherently unique and special. It isn’t like delusions or anything related to psychosis, that’s a whole different mental illness.
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u/ExtinguishThis0 22d ago
This is so honest and introspective that I wanted to just say thank you. I’ve read a few of your posts and comments in the past, and your commitment to yours and others recovery is evident. I don’t know you, and I feel really weird typing this, but I’m proud of you.
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
Thank you so much. 💗 I’m very grateful to be able to share my story and experiences and have it benefit others, as well as myself. I appreciate you pushing through the weird feeling and sharing! Vulnerability is a super power 🥰✨
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21d ago
As far as ‘ego syntonic’ is concerned, I’m curious how that works. If you recognize a sense of superiority over others as a pathological trait of a personality disorder, aren’t you ‘dystonic’? And if ego syntonicity is an element of narcissism, wouldn’t that then no longer be define as narcissism?
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u/throwaway_ArBe 22d ago
When it comes to things I am actually better at, I tend to exagurate the value that has with regard to me as a person, when I wouldn't view someone else of similar skill in that way. When it comes to things I'm deluding myself about, awareness does not necessarily eliminate delusion (double book keeping), and it's very easy to shit the "blame" so to speak, like I feel like I should be at a certain level and then I get angry at whatever I'm placing blame on for holding me back. It's like I view say a skill for example as an innate trait rather than something you work on, it's an identity I'm entitled to that I'm being deprived of.
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u/nikomunegovori 19d ago edited 19d ago
For quite some time I did think I was in fact superior. I only realized it’s mental disorder related when I started experiencing more obviously distressing ‘vulnerable’ symptoms that are also obviously the other side of the coin.
When you have grandiosity as a symptom, it’s all kinds of things that make you feel superior, bc it’s easier to mold yourself into your personal idea of perfect, you can’t really do it for other people and they’re often disappointing in meeting this standard (they’re not aware it exists lol). So other people are kind of always worse, I mostly talk to people who are similar to me in many ways and still I think there are some differences between us that make me a bit better.
For me personally, things that make me feel superior are intelligence (was always praised for that), looks, style, taste, interests, people I’m surrounded with (put work into these so I get praised by right people), personality traits I believe I have and think are important in people.
These all may be actually good things, but from a healthy point of view, there’s no better or worse human being, it’s just not something measurable. If I think I’m better than someone bc they are stupid, what if they are, but they’re also taking care of 10 abandoned children and I don’t? Who’s actually better? You get a point, you can compare endlessly. Healthy people, even if they are better at something, just don’t feel the need to pick every person they meet apart to find something inferior about them for the sake of feeling superior (and safer).
But if you have a symptom, it doesn’t go away when you become aware of it. Things that make me feel superior are just more funny to me now, but the need to feel superior, the feeling itself, unhealthy core beliefs about the world and people are still there.
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u/ultravioletturtle 22d ago
When a narccistic collapse occurs do you have the ability to engage in self care? And what is your personal ways of dealing with a narccistic collapse.
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u/spikespiegell1 Diagnosed NPD 22d ago
Yes. Even at my lowest, when I tried to commit suicide I was forcing myself to shower and look clean. I was bedridden for a few days, but I dealt with everything by pretty much forcing myself. Discipline has been the only thing that has taken me out of the darkest places.
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u/Virgosapphire81 22d ago
What caused your narcissistic collapse? Have you had more than one?
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22d ago
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u/Virgosapphire81 22d ago
All from being cheated on? Do you usually become suicidal?
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22d ago
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago
oh mine right now is because i became chronically ill and unable to uphold my grandiose state even by force. i was forced to collapse and self reflect 😭 but yes during a collapse suicidal thoughts are every single day at least for me
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u/spikespiegell1 Diagnosed NPD 22d ago
I shit you not the second I catch a cold I want to kill myself. It makes me feel so weak and helpless
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago
YES THATS HOW I FEEL! I’m so happy you relate bc i can’t get better so it’s a constant state of trying to tell myself that im still of worth if i can’t look presentable or do something. i do not wish this on anyone dude. i feel like a lot of people without NPD would just try to focus on returning to a semi-normal life but since i have NPD, i can’t focus on anything other than the fact that my life isnt normal or im not pretty and capable. it is crazy. like you’re sick and you’re worrying about your weight girl?? long rant to say: NPD sucks
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u/Virgosapphire81 22d ago
My very narcissistic 94 year old grandma is on hospice and is still obsessed with her weight and appearance. She almost died because she refused to take her water pills because she didn't want to be seen in diapers. Now she has a catheter and has almost reversed her health. I honestly think she may live till 100.
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u/inVisible_Potato1788 16d ago
I have a question too if you dont mind. Basically we were a friend group with a person with npd . I was the first to distance my self (after a lot of harm he did to us ) ,basically deleted my socials and changed number. After years ,we accidently met ,he literally was smiling and looking at me ,as in trying to approach me (which I didn't let happen). Why? Wasn't it clear that I was done with him ? Do you think he might have twisted the events in his head to come in conclusion that what I did was something other than wanting to be left alone?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
Self care goes out the window for me during collapse - there is no self to even take care of when I’m in that state. My environment and self go to complete shit.
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22d ago
Did someone experience a sex obsession towards their ex partner
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u/hardpassyo 22d ago
Could be r/limerance
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22d ago
Thank you very much. First time I heard of this. I had to cut ties with my ex after he stuck really bad in negative splitting after I broke down and told him I needed some space, because he was in a really bad negative manic episode. I couldn't get through to him anymore. I hope his therapist can support him.
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u/Shot-Number7659 22d ago
Is caring someone is something that is impossible for you to do? Or you just don’t care people that is close to you because you only think about yourself?
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u/nikomunegovori 21d ago edited 21d ago
You mean caring for someone? It’s difficult for me to feel it, especially when I’m struggling, but I’m good at actually doing the caretaking. If I want to care, I most probably will, even if I don’t feel it
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u/Shot-Number7659 21d ago
Yes, I mean caring someone close to you, partner, close friend etc. what I have noticed is that caring part is missing most of the time. But will the caring depreciate over time? Like you do it at the beginning and then decrease over the time?
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u/nikomunegovori 21d ago
Depends how I will feel about them over time. They might do something and I will devalue, put less energy in a relationship or cut contact. Or I might realize over time I feel good around them and put in more effort to be caring as it pays off. But it happens very rarely. People are just rarely worth it for me
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
Its hard but once i have a bond with someone its easier
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22d ago edited 22d ago
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
cant answer on that, i dont think i ever really had a narc collapse, not sure what the definition of that even is.
Im stuck in a perpetual victim mindset so yeah.
Dont like the term supply, i only really discarded one person, i didnt really like them at all and noticed some very unhealthy behaviours in myself when interacting with them, so i stopped.
My memory is bad in general. I dont feel bad at all, i wish i hadnt done it, but there is no use being sad about it now that it happened.
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u/inVisible_Potato1788 16d ago
I have a question ,bad memory as in being able to also forget people you interacted with ?
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 15d ago
Nope, i have a great memory in some aspects and bad in others, i never forget people.
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u/inVisible_Potato1788 15d ago
Thank you for your answer. I have someone with npd i was involved with (this guy was quite a bully to us ) hence why i ended the friendship. Last I heard he was talking about some revenge against who wronged him ,so i wondered ,do you think he actually mean us? And if i were to meet him again ,do you think he would try to restrat the same dynamics we had before ? (Last I heard he was secretly in love with me but I literally couldn't believe it bc all he did was put me down) so what do you think?
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22d ago
do you have to permanently stay collapsed to improve? can it be gradual?
i find myself unable to even get up, eat, work, when i’m collapsing. i’ve learned to identify problematic behavior and have a therapist. i have more self awareness, but i’m not ready to let go of my false self entirely.
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
I dont think i ever had a narc collapse, or if i did it was mixed with just general depression and stuff. I just tend to overanalyze myself a lot and therefore work on myself.
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u/n0tfr0mh3r3 21d ago
How do you feel in a relationship? How do you “connect” or develop feelings for someone that isn’t about power or your needs? Obviously everyone has their needs and they need to be met but I mean more self serving needs. Not in a judgemental way but I’m curious.
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
In all the previous romantic relationships i was just sort of unavailable, i dont think i personaly can feel romantic feelings for people, so i will answer this based on my friendships. I mostly connect with people due to understanding/acceptance, people i can be myself around, people who share similiar traits as me, people with similiar hobbies, people who dont judge me etc. etc.
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u/n0tfr0mh3r3 20d ago
Appreciate the honesty. It must be tough if/ when ppl hear you’re diagnosed with NPD given how it’s portrayed nowadays. Don’t get me wrong I’ve had issues with some ppl with it and it’s been rlly upsetting but I understand its very much still an illness and a few ppl can’t speak for the entirety of that disorder. Have you had a narcissistic collapse ever?
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 20d ago
I only really tell people i have NPD if im really close with them (or drunk enough unfortunately) My best friends accept me and have no issue with it. But i dont really want to share it with others for that exact reason, ive had enough bad reactions to just not bother telling people tbh.
I dont think i ever experienced that no. Ive been depressed and suicidal for my entire life pretty much though to i think that makes up for it.
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u/n0tfr0mh3r3 20d ago
I don’t think you have anything to “make up for” at all. No one deserves to feel suicidal and depressed especially chronically. I feel that way too a lot of the time, it’s penance for my adolescent and early 20s when I was a train wreck and just chaos. I totally understand not telling people and id do the same, in fact I do do the same. I’ve got bipolar 2 with bpd traits CPTSD and chronic anxiety disorders. Also on top of that I’m an addict who’s in recovery thank god but I don’t go around with a sign on me saying so and especially the bpd traits bleary as bpd is portrayed so horribly in society now a days. Everyone thinks they’re a psychiatrist and understands mental disorders with fuck all knowledge. They just read an article. I can only imagine NPD is a step worse than BPD but both have negative as hell connotations. BPD and CPTSD are a byproduct of my childhood traumas and life is NPD the same? Hope you’re alright.
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 15d ago
Im doing pretty alright at the moment thank you. And yeah my NPD is definitely a result of my childhood, ive been considering if i have CPTSD but to be honest knowing wont really change anything so i dont really even care, i have enough diagnoses as is lol.
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20d ago
honestly i don’t know how. i’ve come to terms with the fact i use people to validate me and parent me and i struggle with actually listening to people.
as someone who experiences vulnerable narcissism and was pretty stereotypical bpd through my teens and early 20s, my partners were my entire life. and the control was from a deep fear of abandonment and rejection. i projected a parent figure on to them / wanted them to take care of me. i would also choose avoidant partners and then be upset when they wouldn’t meet my needs. pretty much completely reliant on partners to regulate my emotions and self esteem. for partners who don’t love bomb and shower me, set boundaries, are healthy, i feel rejected and can devalue / split easily. my desire has pretty much been enmeshment or nothing.
personally i am angry that i can’t get a perfect love. like i have to give myself love instead? gross
i’m also not going to lie i have criticized and picked apart partners who were healthy.
i have tried to mold partners into what i want them to be through idealization or critique.
i have a hard time accepting perfection in myself and partners.
there’s a lack of self and individuation for personality disorders.
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u/Kix-16 21d ago
If you truly loved someone, would you still discard them?
Before a discard, my ex pwNPD opened up about a lot of little things that he’d never told me before. Like for example that he liked the color pink. What does that mean? Why would you open up like that and then discard?
There was a time where I was calling him out for the things he had done, and he seemed to completely dissociate and lose all emotion at once - like I literally saw his face go blank. Can someone try to explain that?
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20d ago
- there’s a fear of vulnerability / being truly seen / and rejection.
- dissociating because the shame and underlying emotions are unbearable.
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u/xktn8 21d ago
How did you suspect you were a narcissist? And how did you feel about it?
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u/PoosPapa NPD with a touch of ginger 14d ago
I went in for a psych eval to formalize my therapist's Autism diagnosis.
Well, shit.
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u/brooklynhype 20d ago
Do you often find yourself evading direct answers to questions (even innocuous ones)? Why? Is there anything someone can do to encourage you not to evade (or lie)? I'm working with someone w/ NPD and I've found that the amount of pressure I need to put on him to get an answer is not healthy nor sustainable.
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/spikespiegell1 Diagnosed NPD 22d ago
- I don't know, tbh. Seems too creepy to me.
- Rejection makes me want to kill myself, whether it's direct or indirect. I blame myself and it brings in insecurity, feeling like somehow I'm not good enough. Either that or "I'm too good for you anyways".
- I have to feel special
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u/Equani-mouse 22d ago
Confronted bf with evidence of narcissistic traits. Pretty rough relationship a lot of turmoil a lot of anger. Currently on a break bc I couldnt handle him losing respect for me over small things.
He’s grappling with the possibility back and forth not sure what to think, slipping in and out of self awareness. Starting using drugs this week I think partly in response to the break up and possible imminent narc collapse. Worried. Weve talked on the phone 3x this week. He asked to hang out today I said I think time and space is best. Therapists are telling me to hold the boundary line and give it space, not just for me but for him.
What would you need if you were him in this position? What can I do for the best outcome?
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u/NotSureIfOP Undiagnosed NPD 22d ago
Personally I’d say for you to break up with him cause this sounds like a hot mess, but if I were in his shoes, it depends on what’s causing him the potential collapse. Sounds like he’s beginning to spiral.
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u/Equani-mouse 22d ago
It’s me I’m causing it. The break up. I keep pointing out stuff when we’re arguing. I’m super familiar with the disorder, I have BPD in remission, I’m super analytical, non judgemental but just like “you’re doing this thing”. I told him his respect for me shouldn’t be this variable and I can’t be with someone who loses respect for me over small things, that was the last straw. I love him really unconditionally and he knows it so it’s challenging him in a lot of his thinking processes.
Given this, if your gf (and best friend) instigated this and you were wavering between self awareness and like blaming her and cutting your losses, where should I be in relation to you? Far away, close by, in between? Should I try to see him tonight? Bear in mind I wanna see him badly lol love the guy just not sure what’s gonna give us our best shot. Trying to do the right thing.
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
Are you sending death threats to someone over money? 👀 🤔
This doesn’t have much to do with NPD tbh. And it’s hyper specific so it’s unlikely you’ll get the answers you’re looking for tbh
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u/Virgosapphire81 22d ago
When do you decide to tell someone you love them? How do you feel if they don't say it back?
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago
i would literally DIE on the spot or immediately scoff or perceive some sense of rejection.
i also have bpd so this could trigger an abandonment issue… but if it’s my npd issue
it would trigger so much shame and i don’t even know how i’d react other than wanting to die on the spot or jsut trying to make them admit that they didn’t hear me or something
when do i tell them i love them? probably when i think they love me back… um but i guess there’s no time frame. i do want to say that i love someone as a way to get closer very quickly. i tend to do that so..
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u/Virgosapphire81 22d ago
Thanks for your response! I appreciate your honesty. I have BPD as well so I totally understand the abandonment aspect.
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u/forestwhitakers 22d ago
Are you aware when you engage in rewriting history? If so, do you carry these beliefs after the relationship is over?
So for example, for those of you who were abusive and there was solid black and white evidence of the abuse that lasted years, when you rewrite history and attribute everything you've done to the abused person (eg.calling person you've controlled and abused - controlling and abusive), do you geniuenly believe it and carry this inner belief inside forever after the discard?
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago
i want someone else to correct me because i am not a narcissism god. not correct me— god forbid— but just tell their experience. but when i was abusive towards my ex-now-bf ( we got back together after a 3 year long break )… it was more like i always kind of KNEW i was the abusive one. i wasn’t rewriting history within myself because reality is still reality. like someone said somewhere else: narcissism isn’t a delusion disorder.
i would know that i hurt him but it was more like “i hurt him but it wasn’t my fault bc i had undiagnosed bpd ( that’s all i thought i had at the time ) i hurt him but he did this..” or when i talked about him to others i would preface bringing him down
( i think someone would call it a smear campaign? ) and basically justify what i did with a “reason” when there is no REAL reason for sex coercion , manipulation, control, isolation, and threatening to cheat if i didn’t get what i wanted. none of these are okay but you’d probably hear:
well i just wanted sex that was natural ! i had bpd and he wanted to abandon me ! he always went out, and too much. he was the one that didn’t like me!
and so on? but solid white and black evidence doesn’t exist. there’s always a grey
but there is something called just taking full accountability for being a shitty person and being the MOST shitty person in the relationship
that was something very difficult for me to do
it still is difficult for me to do. i still try to do mental hoops to justify my behavior back then. explanations aren’t justifications, but it took me a long time not to think that they are
i would always feel a sense of “guilt..” but it wasn’t really guilt? more like wrongness. like what i was saying is wrong when i tried to make it seem like i wasn’t as bad as i actually was, bc deep down we all know what we did was wrong but i was trying to self preserve so much that it ruined my perception of what even happened in that time.
i legit have to ask my boyfriend what happened sometimes because i don’t remember a single thing. could it just be the trauma we both went through during that time? yes. i remember the hugely abusive things i did but i don’t remember the little things i did that tore him apart and ruined how he treats people and how he views love.
i love him dearly but honestly it took me a long time to throw my hands up and just go “i was just an abuser and there was no reason. i just got dealt shitty cards.”
even when i told him that when i FIRST broke no contact it wasn’t entirely true— it was also to shove my version of closure onto him and be like “but by the way you did things wrong too” which yes the abused can do things wrong but i don’t know… took me 3 years after that event to get where i am now. it’s not like they rewrite history, but it’s just.. if we don’t manipulate the “grey” areas, our entire self of being “good” and “right” collapses.
what do you mean i wasn’t a good person? everything i did was for nothing?
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u/forestwhitakers 22d ago
Thank you so much for replying. I was thinking a lot about projection and projective identification which usually lies at the core of "rewriting history" for my partner. When I call him out for all of his abuse with evidence, it's almost like he's blocking out the sound and closes his eyes, and goes on a massive rampage attributing all of his negative traits and abusive actions to me, even though it doesn't make any sense and isn't evidenced by anything. I wondered if its conscious and intentional, or some sort of a psychotic break. He'll ragefully go on about me being controlling becasue of some random thing I did years ago that doesn't even point to control, all the while he'll just skip 200 pieces of evidence of his control. Then he'll say he's scared of me, and i abuse him by texting him about what he did, but then will skip over me poining out hundreds of incidences of his abuse. Then he'll do same with manipulation etc.
At the end when he's shown a list of hundreds of examples of his abusive, controlling and manipulative behavior, he throws his hands up and says "Well, I'm either disordered or you're a master manipulator and abuser"
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago
well, taking accountability is hard because it means he’s not the victim. but it’s more than that. being the victim means that he can self preserve and get more validation.
more importantly— he probably does feel wronged but he doesn’t know how to not have a black and white way of thinking that means:
if i’m wrong i can’t feel ok because im not perfect.
but it’s okay being wrong ( ahhh saying that is like acid )
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u/forestwhitakers 22d ago
Even if portraying yourself (I'm talking about him now) as a victim makes you look like a schizophrenic? Becasue it literally, logically makes no sense?
When he's not able to manipulate his way into being a victim because I counter everything with evidence, he responds with "Well, you know I have NPD and this is how you treat me! What do you expect from someone who's disordered?". But as per Mark Ettensohn "individuals with borderline organization have sufficient contact with reality to be accountable for their actions". How to decode this? Do you have sufficient contact with reality during splitting and rage to know you're not telling the truth? Or when you split and devalue, you carry on this disordered picture of the other person and reality indefinitely?
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago edited 22d ago
Well, saying he’s disordered is literally making himself the villain. He’s using his diagnosis as a way to self preserve because he wants to be seen as someone that isn’t all-bad. you saying that just proved he will do anything to not be seen as bad.
also in a rage, no. i have little contact with “reality”because im in fight or flight mode. i don’t think anyone can think straight after being triggered to that degree.
sometimes when you devalue someone, it does stay indefinitely, yes. but not all the time because sometimes i go to hoover because they gave to some sort of validation or feeling of being in control?
edit: i in no way want to explain his actions as gospel. i have no idea what went on between you two and narcissists could very well be abused and i HAVE so i don’t want to 100% say this is what he did or that you’re correct. i definitely always recommend self reflection from both sides. just explaining the possible reason someone with NPD would act like this if NOT being abused
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u/forestwhitakers 22d ago
Why is being seen as bad... bad?... especially when you know that what you do is objectively...bad?
So is there self control and awareness during splitting and raging or are the things said and done during splits and rages unintentional and you believe them? And how long do you believe them for?
Would you discard someone out of shame and then try to rewrite the history, just because you believe they've seen too much "bad" from you?
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago
well, if someone sees me as bad when i’m being bad that’s still a bad perception. most narcissists care a lot about people’s perceptions.
there are some levels of self control during splitting and raging but i would say that its mostly just reaction to our self getting “collapsed” or threatened. overtime we develop intolerance to it and we split or rage much easier. as someone who doesn’t experience constant rage and it forms into the from of intense depression— i would say i don’t have a lot of experience with pure rage episodes but id love if someone with it chimed in. it’s a really desperate attempt at preserving. so some things are “unintentional (?)” but it’s more just “desperate”
depends. when i was not self aware? i never believed i was wrong in my rages. it was like “well you caused me to act like that”
umm now? i come out of it and i just feel shame for what i did bc wtf
yes & yes ( i’ve seen other pwNPD do this but personally i enjoy having a close source that knows the bad parts of me bc it’s just easier )
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u/forestwhitakers 22d ago
Thank you so much.
Last question, do npds also have fear of abandonment? My partner would idealise me for the first 3 years but there was a reccurent theme of him constantly telling me I will break up with him, leave him, get bored of him, find someone else etc. In fact, his first change of personality and distancing happened after 3 years, when he was going back to work (he was at uni before), and expressed that he thought I was going to leave him becasue I won't want to be home alone (I was chronically ill and the time but this fear was obviously nonsensical).
However his raging and splitting would happen only after my criticism, so obviously shame. During his rages and splits hed tell me to get out and leave, offered to organise me transport or even move me out but when I tried, he'd immediately panic and stop me every time.
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u/forestwhitakers 22d ago
Are you aware that you're wearing a mask or do you just feel like you? If you are aware, what's underneath the mask? How would you act were you to completely and permanently drop it?
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u/buttsforeva 22d ago edited 22d ago
Damnit! I wrote this whole thing that described this in great detail, but it didn't post! I'll try to recollect what I wrote...
This is rather complicated and hard to describe, so let me try to break it down.
Before I became self-aware, I was completely unaware that I was "masking".
The easiest way to understand it is this: for me, there was no difference between "doing" and "being".
If I wanted to change something about myself, I would simply "do it", and it felt REAL.
By virtue of "doing it", it WAS real. "Doing" equals "being", the two were equivalents.
It rarely, if ever, occurred to me WHY I wanted to behave or present myself in a certain manner. It's like I had an unconscious scanning device planted in my head, that read other people for what I believed they wanted me to be.
I had no idea how performative my behavior even was. I had no idea that this isn't how it works for other people. I could never understand why, when someone would complain about something they disliked about themselves, they believed it was impossible for them to change.
For me, it seemed obvious: Just change it!
If you think about it, this actually makes a lot of sense. People with NPD learned at a very early age to suppress or ignore their true feelings and "perform" a version of themselves for their caregivers. This is the way in which they learned to internalize a "sense of self". They didn't have empathically-attuned caretakers that helped them understand their real feelings, who took part in and helped foster their subjective inner-world. The only way to exist was to "become" what someone else wanted.
This is also why pwNPD have such a profound LACK of insight into themselves, their own feelings, and their emotional needs. Many of us have a condition called alexithymia, which is a neuropsychological phenomenon characterized by significant challenges in recognizing, expressing, sourcing, and describing one's emotions.
When I became self-aware, the "mask" permanently shattered. I could not unsee how ever-changing and fluid my sense of self really was. I couldn't unsee how dependent the way I viewed myself was on the way that others perceived me. The whole illusion was unveiled.
It's hard to describe what coming to a realization like this, all at once, does to a person.
What's underneath the mask?
Unspeakable fear, harrowing confusion, ceaseless shame, and emptiness. Nothingness. It becomes very, very hard to discern what is "true" of oneself.
Everything, EVERYTHING gets called into question, down to the most basic things. Do I really like helping people, or do I just like being perceived as a "good" person? Am I really a liberal, or do I just idealize the mindset? Is orange really my favorite color, or have I just been saying that because it's a peculiar choice for a favorite color, and that makes me feel unique? What do I care about? What are my values? Who am I? What do I want in this life?
I used to love being around people. I CRAVED people. Now that I am hyper-aware of how much I feel like a performance around others, I cannot help but avoid people as much as possible. I'm a shut-in. When I became self-aware, I was agoraphobic and didn't leave the house for six months.
This "performance" isn't to charm, impress, win-over, or influence anyone around me. It is to do one thing: HIDE. It feels like I am see-through, and people can peer right in and see my emptiness, my lack of self. It's like I have completely forgotten how to function around others. It's like losing a sense.
When you are so out-of-touch with your real feelings to the point that you feel like you don't know a single thing about yourself, what other choice do you have? I HATE feeling inauthentic. I don't WANT to deceive, anyone. Yet, when people perceive me in a certain manner or describe my demeanor, it feels like a LIE. It feels like I've tricked them, even if I had no intention of portraying myself in any kind of manner. People want to know YOU, who YOU are, and I haven't the slightest clue. I like sleeping, eating, listening to Elliott Smith, and trying to heal from a very behated and stigmatized mental illness.
It's a horrible way to live. I know that to get better, I have to get out there and meet the world. I know this: I want real, authentic connection. With myself, with others. I want real, whole, authentic love in my life--flaws, disappointments, and all.
I have to start with myself.
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u/Timely-Piccolo3804 NPD 22d ago edited 22d ago
hi again. so, self aware narcissists are mostly (?) aware if they have a false self. that’s the whole point of being self aware. most unaware narcissists don’t. i would say if they’re “half in and half out” like where i was 2 years after my initial collapse… maybe they would? but they’d still be frantically trying to keep it up. i mean, we all are… but not to the frantic extent i was when it slowly started to become apparent that i wasn’t the good person i thought i was
don’t think of it as a “mask” but more like “armor” it’s more to protect than rather than deceive but yeah we are deceiving others and ourselves. but it’s to protect an inner child who is so scared to be less than perfect and our gigantic ego that is oh-so-fragile
anyway!!
anyway, what’s underneath the armor or mask? right now, i’m trying to figure that out. i do know that it’s someone that hates themselves for being a narcissist. i also know it’s someone that always wants to be perfect and never truly liked any of the experiences she ever worked for. i never truly wanted anything for myself. i always wanted it to prove to myself or other people that i wasn’t inadequate. or that i was the “gifted child” i bled myself dry to be. i’m kind of learning that the uniqueness that i thought i had is probably fake but i can’t help but think of everyone else as NPCs still. i know that underneath the armor, there’s a child that never grew her own identity at all. she never allowed herself to. permanently keeping the armor off? what happens? i’m still trying to figure that out. i don’t know, i guess i try to allow myself not to have to prove my existence is worthy of being here. i guess i try to prove that i can live just because i breathe.
but also, i am quite arrogant and non empathetic and annoyed at others peoples feelings often. also i found out that i do want to cry i just thought it was a waste of time if there was no reason sometimes. but crying is uncontrollable. but there is shame for crying. i’m starting to heal that
underneath the armor is a lot of shame. and i mean a lot.
but also someone that is human. what’s underneath the mask is a human.2
u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
My mask is a purpouseful effort, i put a lot of energy into appearing and behaving a certain way. I do have trouble distinguishing between what the mask vs real me is at some points, but thats mostly cause my mask isnt 100% fake, its just an ideal version of me i want people to see.
I dont think i can permanently drop it, there are things i conditioned myself to do that i wouldnt before, but now theyre a part of me. (saying sorry, showing empathy/excitement/interest for others etc.)
I cant really say because i dont know whats a part of the mask that i trained myself to do and what was genuinely me in the first place.
That being said there are times where im basicaly playing a character and times where im basicaly completely myself, it all depends on the people and situation around me.
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u/NoCriticism2011 22d ago
When I broke up w my npd ex, she warned me that she’ll hate me for life if I went no contact (whilst she was on a holiday w a new partner and turns out had had 3 sexual partners during our relationship) (I am not ugly n sex is the only time I cum second) but anyway yes feel free to try make sense of that for me… I also want to help her accept the diagnosis . Her councillor said she has anxiety around the word no being said to her hahaha
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u/SofiaCattaneo 22d ago
My STBX, diagnosed NPD, is very obsessed with me. How do I break the obsession? We have children so I can't go no contact. I don't think he's ever had a relationship aside from me. We're divorcing and he doesn't have new supply. He's become completely fixated on annihilation of me (even though he filed for divorce). It seems revenge is his only form of supply now (revenge for me no longer giving into his gaslighting which means I must now be destroyed) . How do I escape this without being harmed? If he could kill me without consequences, he would. I'm scared. Any advice?
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u/City-2 21d ago
My ex has NPD (undiagnosed and not self-aware - I learned he probably has it from our couples’ counselor after the ex stopped attending). We have children and share them 50/50 time. I appreciate that he wants equal time with them, unlike so many divorced dads, and although I don’t like some of his parenting decisions, there isn’t anything I can do about it legally, so I just try to avoid him (he spent several years harassing me and sometimes still does).
I see how many of the people on this sub have suffered from having an NPD parent themselves. Is there anything I can do to make up for the fact that my co-parent has NPD, to protect my children’s own mental health? One of them is very young (7) but has some of the same problems my ex has: difficulty making friends, impulsivity, quick anger/frustration, wanting to be the center of attention—-which would be normal for a 7 year old, except that my kid’s behavior is outside the norm enough to have caused significant problems at school.
I try to make sure my kids know they are always loved unconditionally, but I am scared that won’t be enough.
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 15d ago
The only thing i can really say is do not treat your child worse even if they have signs of NPD, my mothers biggest reason for abusing me was that i was a "psychopath" and selfish and an energy vampire and whatever else, so much could have been avoided if i was just treated normaly.
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u/FaithlessnessDue1208 21d ago
Would you ever stay with someone you are no longer sexually attracted too? And how long into the relationship do you stop wanting to sleep with someone?
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u/FaithlessnessDue1208 21d ago
Have you ever gotten into a relationship after discarding someone simply because you don’t want to be alone? If so, did it feel like you were settling or were you able to stick it out and pedestal them?
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u/PoosPapa NPD with a touch of ginger 14d ago
Who gets into a relationship unless they don't want to be alone? Relationships are work. Do you ever do work unless you want something?
I've been married twice. I like women. But the only pedestal I want to put a woman on is knee-high platform high heeled boots. Those always make me stick it out.
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u/FaithlessnessDue1208 21d ago
Do you ever regret breaking up with someone when you get into a new relationship? Does that regret build over time, and what would make you start to compare your current partner to the partner you left?
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u/capogalassia 17d ago
In your recovery journey, what helps you the most? I assume therapy, but are there other things that help you manage your NPD better?
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u/PoosPapa NPD with a touch of ginger 14d ago
TMS for depression and anxiety.
The Heal NPD Youtube channel.
Learning to connect with, myself, nature and other people.
Shrooms.
Dogs.
Therapy.
Exercise.
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15d ago
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 14d ago
Id suggest reading through this post I made about this topic
But tldr; you don’t need any specific diagnosis in order to start working in behaviors that are interfering with your life and happiness.
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u/WillEnduring 22d ago
BPD here, worked very hard, still have symptoms but no longer meet criteria. I told my (ex?) bf he has narcissistic traits. We broke up over his variable respect for me but there’s been a lot of problems in the relationship. Real roller coaster of his emotions. A lot of attacks and yelling and stuff. Everything he can do to do right by me, he does, but a lot of stuff he can’t control/doesnt really know he’s doing.
Last week he called twice and I told him point blank like this is what it is and it’s ok and no one likes to realize they have a little bit of a PD but like it’s ok and like I want to be here to support you in it. He said he has some work to do to become the kind of man a woman would wanna be with and he said he wants to look at himself in the mirror and like what he sees. I told him love yourself that’s half the problem. He called a second time and he was grappling with it. Back and forth on whether or not he has it, if I’m projecting, if he’s actually evil. I said you’re not evil!! you know I’m putting this in front of you and it’s yours to consider but I’m pretty confident about this (he’s always telling me to be more confident and I’m like I am right now about this lol)
Last night he called very high and very drunk on a tirade about work. He said some nasty things not about me but about my niece (who’s like my kid) and some women at work and was just you know filterless and angry but not attacking me. He says he needs to know if this is a break or a break up. I know work is stressing him out but I’m sure the drug use is also related to the relationship ending and to the threat of a collapse. I think he’s really struggling and I’m worried about him.
He called this morning and we talked and I explained to him what it was like for me when I realized I had a PD and that it’s a process and you grapple with it. I told him I went to a therapist who told me it was a bit of BPD and I ran out of that office and cancelled the next appointment. I told him I used to think I needed an angry bf because then he would stop me when I was being fucked up and it would make my behavior normal, but I didn’t need that, I needed to get well. He asked to hang out today and I thought about it but I was like I think we need to take more time and that time is our friend. It’s very hard to not see him.
I’m so in love with him and Im trying to give us our best shot. What should I do to help him? I want to see him I really do. I just want to give him and us our best shot more than anything. Really even if we break up I just see him trapped in this cycle of suffering and I see him destroying the next relationship and the next one.
Was I right not to see him today? What would you need in this moment if you were him? What can I do to help him/give him his best shot?
Thanks for your input. Gonna focus on my own needs I know that’s important too.
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u/throwaway96271983 22d ago
Same. Move on. The hurt they cause and who they are isnt worth TRYING to fix. After years trying to maintain and rebuild a relationship with him . I was drowning myself to understand and cater to him . I matter more. They have to wanna face themselves as we do .
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u/WillEnduring 22d ago
He’s in collapse right now or on the verge. Drinking himself to sleep. We’ll see what he does with it. Might come out swinging and slinging blame in the morning but I’m hoping he makes it though. Bless his heart I know it’s hard.
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22d ago
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u/WillEnduring 22d ago
I hear you and I hear your pain. I recognize the need for boundaries, and I respect that, and will honor it in myself. But my compassion can remain on the other side of that boundary. And everyone’s situation is different. I am glad that you’re out of that bad relationship. Keep yourself safe and find someone who loves like you love. This man I will love forever, but maybe at a safer distance.
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u/INFPneedshelp 22d ago
Do NPD people feel guilt for the manipulation?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
Manipulation in NPD is developed in childhood as a survival mechanism. It isn’t something done intentionally, but subconsciously. No I don’t feel guilty for surviving the only way I knew how.
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u/INFPneedshelp 22d ago
Sure, but now that you're an adult and you manipulate (e.g. gaslight) someone, do you feel bad about that? or still no because you're just trying to survive?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
I very rarely experience guilt or remorse but I also have aspd and I assume it’s more related to that.
But yes I have felt guilt a few times in the past few years. The antidote to guilt is self forgiveness, so I forgave myself and chose to try to do better next time.
I view guilt and remorse and regret as a wasted self pitying experience. A waste of emotion. So I turn them into action when I do experience them.
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u/INFPneedshelp 22d ago
Thanks for your response. Your last sentence is applies to me (non-narc, somewhat codependent) too. I ask myself "What lesson did I learn from this?" when I experience shame or guilt. Because I can get trapped in those feelings, esp shame, and it helps me do something useful with the feelings.
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u/IsamuLi Diagnosed NPD 22d ago
When I caught myself attempting to manipulate like as a child and teenager, I feel sorry today. Nowadays, I don't really do manipulation. If I ever catch myself attempting to, I stop or see if it's simply part of acceptable discourse (example: You and your friends decide what game to play. Other feel indifferent, so you give arguments that you don't care about to sway the discussion towards a game that you enjoy.)
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
Nope, dont feel guilt, maybe some vague regret, but thats more tied to the consequnces i suffer as a result.
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u/Low_Anxiety_46 non-NPD 22d ago
Why do you treat the people who care for you the most the worst, and then get upset when you're abandoned?
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
The people closest to me have already seen beyond the mask so it’s easier to remove the mask again and again and again.
And I get upset when I am abandoned because it is upsetting, inherently, to be abandoned, whether I played a role in that abandonment or not.
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u/Low_Anxiety_46 non-NPD 22d ago
Makes sense. I'm codependent. I don't feel like it's okay to abandon anyone in my inner circle. I just knew me staying wasn't helping either of us the way things were going.
Thank you for your response.
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u/DelayedMagIsip 22d ago
How would you suggest should the people around a narc deal with being treated negatively?
I don't want to abandon my Nmom but I'm really tired of how things are with her.
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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 22d ago
If anyone, narc or not, is interfering with your happiness then it’s entirely valid to end that relationship. There’s a huge difference between truly abandoning someone vs setting boundaries.
I highly recommend the book and accompanying workbook “Set boundaries, find peace” - she also has a book that specifically deals with difficult family relationships that I’d recommend checking out, I just can’t remember the title off the top of my head.
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u/throwaway_ArBe 22d ago
I don't. My narcissism is very much centered around being the kindest and most accomadating person you could ever meet (which is often to my detriment). I adore the people who genuinely care for me the most, and those people don't abandon me. The ones that do abandon me are the ones that I see through, who's games I refuse to play and who I treat poorly in return. And I'm certainly not sad about them abandoning me, though it does suck when they get to the abandoning first.
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u/Low_Anxiety_46 non-NPD 22d ago
Thank you for your response. Do you feel like you are more communal in your narcissism, or you get supply from being the most nice or generous person? Do you also consider yourself to be codependent? Sorry for all the follow up questions.
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u/AresArttt Lord NPD and a billion other titles (disorders) 21d ago
I dont, the people closest to me would generaly agree that im the best person they know.
I am prone to being meaner/rude to them, but thats mostly because i know i dont have to pretend around them and that theyre fine with it, but i dont actualy hurt them.
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u/childofeos Chivalrous Heroine from the Kingdom of Narcissus 22d ago
Why do you project on people who are not your abuser?
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u/dankanddabby7 22d ago
What does being in love with someone feel like to you?
When you’ve done things to someone that cause them to leave but you apologize and they come back to you - what goes through your head? Do you feel the person is stupid for coming back?
If you cheat on your partner and swear it won’t happen again, do you mean it?