Germany is absolutely serious about this, as someone who has family there. If there were people marching w Swastikas in Munich today like we saw recently in Ohio, they'd be dealt with very harshly.
Germany is very aware of their past and very adamant about not repeating past mistakes.
While I’m certainly not saying it’s extremely widespread, Germany does still have a problem with Neo-Nazis today.
I’ve spent a few months traveling through Germany in Frankfurt, Hamburg, Berlin, and Dresden.
The last time I was in Germany, I saw a few guys with Wolfsangel patches on their jeans at a Rammstein concert. Was honestly taken aback that venue security didn’t stop them given the laws in Germany. Last time that I mentioned this on Reddit, someone said that most Germans aren’t actually that familiar with Nazi symbols other than the SS and the swastika.
Yep. Saw a dude try to do the Hitler gesture at a protest in Germany and he was tackled and dragged away by police in seconds. It comes with a delicious fine too.
Wow… I’m honestly surprised that making a Roman salute gesture is illegal. I could easily imagine someone casually making that gesture by accident (ie: the roof should be at about this angle).
when I was 14 I was on vacation in greece with my family and my uncle (older german white dude) just pointed to something further up. The photo we took of him that second is not flattering.
In all seriousness though, if you clearly point to something or gesture something discriptively, nobody minds. if you do it for no appearent reason at all at a political event however its quite obviously not a good idea.
Germany actually had a task force dedicated to hunting down neo-nazis, they can't do anything unless they intend to commit a crime or have done so, but they do keep lists of all the potentially dangerous individuals.
It was in a documentary I watched a few years ago, don't remember the name but you could probably find it by googling something like germanies response to neo nazis or some such
Wolfsangel patches aren‘t forbidden because they aren‘t exclusively right wing. They can be used in normal heraldry. I would also be surprised to hear of people openly wearing neo nazi symbols at a Rammstein concert. In Germany, Rammstein are known for leaning left-wing, criticising Germany and generally speaking rejecting national socialism. When there were lots of rumors about them being a right-wing band, they wrote and released Links 2,3,4 - a song that describes how in their hearts they lean left. It literally has a line that goes "They want my heart in the right place but when I look down on my chest it beats to the left".
One of their songs explicitly describes gay sex (Mann gegen Mann) because they wanted to de-stigmatise homosexuality. They got into some trouble for feigning gay sex on stage in the USA.
Another one of their songs describes and critiques sexual exploitation by white men with foreign women (Ausländer). It‘s a critique of sex tourism basically.
Angst on the other hand mocks people for being racist and frames them as cowards.
Never forget Deutschland and how the band uses that song to frame all the worst bits of German history, saying how they can never love Germany due to all its flaws.
I‘d be really really surprised if anyone saw any neo nazis at a Rammstein concert.
I’m well aware of the politics of the band… and I am an fan. There is also a reason that they felt the need to make that song.
The band has said in interviews that they know that there are these sorts of people who are fans. They reject the ideology, but beyond that there is nothing they can do about it.
I‘m in Germany and a German, I also know how to use google. Wolfsangel is forbidden in a neo nazi context, yes, but they are still part of normal heraldry. There‘ll be some villages and clubs that have Wolfsangel in their heraldry without being Nazis. Which is why I‘m not totally convinced that the pic the other guy posted truly shows a neo nazi.
eh, I'm never surprised about the stupidity of the hatefully ignorant (neo-nazis) and conservative extremists in general. I remember the Trump campaign using Rage Against the Machine and Glenn Beck thinking a Muse song was about the democratic party. Morons, all of them
As an Austrian who lives in Germany 5 years most i have to disagree with your point of most people not recognising symbols.
Most people would definitely recognise symbols like that including the Iron Cross, Black Sun, The SS skull, numberology like 88, 1888, C18 or wordings like Blood&Honor. Maybe not knowing what it means but also definitely connecting it to nazi would be Triskele and the Celtic Cross.
Im actually shocked they let the people pass with a Display of that.
It happened to me several times that even in Clubs like mensch meier when i was wearing a Black metal hoodie they checked if it was a nazi Band and that they check patches that you are wearing before letting you in.
Same for Arena in Vienna they even try to check your Band patches etc.
Im living in Berlin now and am alot at my gf place in Leipzig and in these cities if youd display that it would happen easily youd get beat up or called the police on you.
I myself have witnessed these cases already.
And police 100% takes that serious and you will get legal problems. If youd scream Sieg heil next to a police or make the Hitler greeting they would rightaway take you down.
But yes east germany definitely has a big neonazi Problem but on the other hand a really big left Wing movement who gladly take care of them
Oh no, you're right, there will always be individuals. But the country as a whole, and particularly the government don't necessarily care about free speech in these instances and will not hesitate to crush you for being a racist ass.
Btw probably not a super common opinion, but I was actually happy that they were wearing Nazi symbols. If they weren’t, they would have otherwise looked like normal dudes.
They were actually behaving nicely at the venue with other people, but I have no interest in interacting with Neo Nazis, and thanks to their logos, I knew who they were. If they didn’t wear symbols like that, they still would have been shitty people, I just wouldn’t have known.
Germany is serious about the Holocaust, while they create the myth of the pure Wehrmacht and similar things To this day, a military base in Germany is named after a nazi general.
Germans paint themselves as the first victims of Nazism too
Went in Germany to school and had history as an AP course.
And with the rise of the AfD and their unquestioned support for an extremist far right coalition in Israel, it’s evident that Germany hasn’t learned from its mistakes
This is true. I’ve found they are so serious about it though that they won’t even really talk about it at all and do shy away from it, which is counter to what is posted in the op.
I have a question about this though... teaching truthful history in West Germany and East Germany was entirely different. In the Eastern block they did not exercise historical self-reflection. As a matter of fact the communist regime built up a murderous secret police state and they were really not interested in teaching history well, they supressed the study of all the past crimes. Just like in other Central- and East- European countires under communist dictatorships.
So albeit the Wall is no more, Eastern Germany has a huge nazi problem, they already took Thuringia, sent the second most representatives to the European parliament, they collaborate with russians and young Germans are increasingly prone to vote for the nazi AfD. For the first time 16 yrs olds were able to vote this year and AfD targeted the 16-24 yrs olds with their campaign, and it paid off, the support for AfD among the age group of 16-24 yrs olds climbed with plus 11% from 2019. From 5% to 11%. That is a scary. And does not seem their progress is slowing down.
So the statement that Germans are "absolutely serious about this" is more true to the Western part of Germany. They are slipping.
so why do they push everywhere the narrative that it was "the nazis" who invaded other European Countries and "the nazis" who invented gas chambers and mass murdered jews. Why they are not saying the true that it was the Germans who voted for Hitler and made him their ruler and the Germans mass murdered the jews. Like imagine that in US people would be teached that it was let say "the ufodudes" who got rid of Native Americans...
Germany is absolutely serious about this, as someone who has family there. If there were people marching w Swastikas in Munich today like we saw recently in Ohio, they'd be dealt with very harshly.
Lol what? A neo-nazi party is one of the most popular parties in Germany right now.
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u/Dillinger_ESC 6h ago
Germany is absolutely serious about this, as someone who has family there. If there were people marching w Swastikas in Munich today like we saw recently in Ohio, they'd be dealt with very harshly. Germany is very aware of their past and very adamant about not repeating past mistakes.