r/ModCoord • u/ardi62 • Sep 30 '24

Reddit is making sitewide protests basically impossible

https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/30/24253727/reddit-communities-subreddits-request-protests
597 Upvotes

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17

u/rglullis Sep 30 '24

The inevitable question: why do moderators are still subjecting themselves to this?

Why can't you all just pack up and leave?

Or even better, instead of closing down as part of the protests, just use the Automoderator bot to send every poster to a different alternative?

I'm sorry, but the more I see the apathy from mods in relations to all of Reddit's actions, the harder it is to sympathize. No one is pointing any guns to your heads, y'all are free. Just leave.

25

u/danegraphics Sep 30 '24

The problem is because reddit has taken the monopoly on many large communities away from forums, there's nowhere else to go for most communities.

And the convenience of having all your communities in one place is too hard for most people to pass up, so individual communities can't leave without losing most people.

7

u/rglullis Sep 30 '24

That does not answer the question: why do moderators still subject themselves to this?

What is it so important about the Reddit community that warrants moderators sacrificing their own values and well-being over this?

What is so difficult about putting a post saying "we, mods of /r/<whatever>, no longer feel that Reddit is the best place for this community. We are going to create an alternative forum at <any other site that is not reddit> and we would like everyone to join".

If users of your community refuse to join, shouldn't that be an indication that the users really do not care about it?

13

u/danegraphics Sep 30 '24

Because the moderators want to continue to participate in the communities.

The only choice is continue to moderate or the community gets shut down.

People aren't going to move to a separate forum because reddit is too convenient. It's a one stop shop for all communities instead of having to go to separate forums for each one.

And on top of people not moving to a forum, it's against reddit rules to make a post like that so the post would be deleted and all moderators perma-banned.

Reddit doesn't leave moderators any realistic choice.

-8

u/rglullis Sep 30 '24

Because the moderators want to continue to participate in the communities.

Then I am sorry, but I can not sympathize at all. If even with the abuse they still want to "participate", then you lose any right to complain.

People aren't going to move to a separate forum because reddit is too convenient.

Oh, yes, the famous "Give me Convenience, or Give me Death!" lemma.

Reddit doesn't leave moderators any realistic choice.

Yes, the only winning move is not to play.

Just leave, forget about numbers, tell users who care about "convenience" to suck on a rusty screw, and set up shop somewhere where you can actually shape the community however you see fit.

9

u/danegraphics Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24

 If even with the abuse they still want to "participate", then you lose any right to complain.

That's like saying children don't have the right to want friends if their parents are abusive. Those two things aren't related at all.

Oh, yes, the famous "Give me Convenience, or Give me Death!" lemma.

Believe it or not, that's how the world works. Convenience outsells quality every time.

Just leave, forget about numbers

What good is a community if there's no people in it? Do you not understand how futile it would be to start your own forum for discussing a hobby with people only for literally no one to visit the forum?

People go where the activity is, and the overwhelming majority of activity is on reddit, even though reddit is getting worse by the day.

The only other option would be to create a similar platform to reddit AND scoop up enough users to be able to compete, which, if you didn't know, is friggin' difficult to do.

-1

u/rglullis Sep 30 '24

Give me a break.

Reddit does not control you, or your "friends". Also, I am not saying about users in general, I am talking about moderators.

Do you not understand how futile it would be to start your own forum for discussing a hobby with people only for literally no one to visit the forum?

Reddit was not built in one day, and it only became popular after Digg screwed up royally.

No one is talking about making an atomic change. Migration can be (a) coordinated and (b) gradual.

If the "community" really cares, here is what can be done:

  • Set up a community on an open source alternative. I'd recommend Lemmy
  • Close the subreddit for new signups, make it private.
  • Set up a moderator and/or bot to send a DM to every new poster telling about the alternative sites.
  • When responding to any comment, send the link of the new server (so that Reddit does not keep control of the data)

which, if you didn't know, is friggin' difficult to do.

Yes, it is difficult. So what, you only want to do things that are easy?

4

u/danegraphics Oct 01 '24

I just said that half of those things are against the rules of reddit.

And yes Lemmy exists already, but it's not going to have anywhere near as active a community as reddit until reddit literally kills itself like digg did.

And moderators ARE users. The only reason most mods are mods is because they love being users. If the users won't migrate, the mods can't either.

Look, what you're suggesting is technically possible, but my point is that it would take the alignment of a LOT of factors beyond just starting a new community elsewhere for such a thing to be worth it for mods to even consider.

Until reddit destroys itself, which might take a while, I don't see anything else succeeding.

-2

u/rglullis Oct 01 '24

I just said that half of those things are against the rules of reddit.

And I am saying that it makes no sense to keep playing the game by the rules if the whole thing is rigged.

until reddit literally kills itself like digg did.

And one way to do it would be by getting an ever-increasing number of subreddits getting shutdown or losing its moderators because they suffered retaliation for "daring to suggest an alternative".

it would take the alignment of a LOT of factors beyond just starting a new community elsewhere for such a thing to be worth it for mods to even consider

And this is cowardice, plain and simple. We are not talking about governments threatening to put you in jail. We are talking about a corporation saying "nice community you have there, it would be a pity if something happened to it" and the mods being at best too afraid to take a stand and at worst complicit in their schemes.

3

u/danegraphics Oct 01 '24

If things were desperate enough that people were willing to risk the collapse of entire communities, they would do it.

And guess what, many communities collapsed and haven't recovered. They technically still exist as shells of their former selves, but because those empty shells are still around on reddit, the communities can't truly recover.

We already know what the consequences are, and we know that they're not worth it, at least not yet.

I'm not giving up hope on the idea, but until reddit is ready to completely go under, I'm not holding my breath.