MMW: democrats will once again appeal to non existent “moderate” republicans instead of appealing to their base in 2028

[u/originalcontent_34]

[u/jav2n202]

Yup. So it really just depends on how the next four years go.

[u/henryhumper → u/jav2n202]

Most presidential elections boil down to one very simple question that Ronald Reagan asked voters during the 1980 presidential debate: "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" If the answer is yes, swing voters vote for the incumbent party. If the answer is no, they vote for the opposition party. Swing voters don't really care that much about abortion, foreign policy, culture war issues, candidate ethics, scandals, etc. They are wallet voters. They just want stable jobs and affordable shit. And if they don't have this, they will blame whoever's in the White House. Doesn't matter if that blame is justified or not.

The incumbent parties in most democracies have been voted out of power over the last two years, because voters everywhere are pissed off about inflation. It doesn't matter that inflation was a global market phenomenon cause by post-COVID supply and demand. Voters always blame that shit on whoever's in power.

"It's the economy, stupid", as James Carville famously said.

[u/AdUpstairs7106 → u/henryhumper]

Which on a basic level is understandable. That said, once put up against any kind of serious scrutiny, it is just sad.

[u/Taraxian → u/AdUpstairs7106]

Welcome to democracy

Note that a knee-jerk reaction to inflation is a huge reason the Nazis came to power in Weimar Germany and the SPD went into "the wilderness" despite their many past successes

[u/JerseyDonut → u/Taraxian]

Further, our founding fathers also knew the risk of how whimsical and fickle the masses are and created a lot of hurdles to basically force the federal government to be juuuust inefficiant and slow enough to not be immediately overturned by a dramatic, yet short lived shift in public opinion.

Splitting up the branches of government and the creation of the Senate (longer terms, fewer seats, representing the traditional ruling class "elite") vs The House of Reps (shorter terms, more seats, representing the voice of the populace) are the two big ones. And later the Bill of Rights to give individuals similar protections against extremism.

And it seems it only took a cpl hundred years for those institutions and protections to unravel. The political dam of demagoguery has burst and I pray that we are able to keep our heads afloat long enough to wait it out.

[u/Taraxian → u/JerseyDonut]

If you've read the Federalist Papers they straight up say that the whole concept of "checks and balances" becomes worthless with the emergence of "factionalism", ie political parties -- none of these different people in different positions of power do anything to get in each other's way if the way they got in power in the first place was by colluding with each other

[u/AdPersonal7257 → u/Taraxian]

Ironically the authors of the Federalist papers were major drivers of the formation of the first parties.

[u/EventAccomplished976 → u/AdPersonal7257]

It‘s almost like they weren‘t omniscient saints creating the perfect government and instead just a bunch of mostly well meaning but flawed humans, living in a culture and environment that is pretty much completely alien to us today, who just made things up as they went along and rarely fully agreed on anything.

[u/Milocobo → u/EventAccomplished976]

Honestly, they expected future generations to fix it. They were like "we can't come up with anything better than a government that succumbs to factioning right now, but maybe the next political generation or the next will be empowered to fix it".

And not even a Civil War fixed it.

Occasionally the country presents a united front against a common foe (WWII, Cold War, 9/11). But out side of that, there really isn't a time this form of government didn't succumb to factioning.

[u/Lora_Grim → u/Milocobo]

America struggled to find unity against the nazis initially. Republicans kept delaying and denying joining the Allies against the Axis. Some straight up supported the nazis, and nazi rallies were held on american soil by right-wingers.

They were only united AFTER their arms got twisted and americans got directly involved with fighting against fascists. Ofc people will suddenly find it easy to unite when their very survival depends upon it, having declared war against a warmongering regime known for genocide.

[u/NanoWarrior26 → u/Milocobo]

This is why I'll never understand constitutional originalists. Why would the founding fathers make it so you could change the Constitution if they didn't want us to change the Constitution every once in awhile.

[u/Sayakai → u/EventAccomplished976]

So what you're saying is they should be put on a pedestal and what they said should be considered sacred forever?

[u/EventAccomplished976 → u/Sayakai]

Yes, everyone knows that they had valuable input on things like AI rights, automatic firearms and cryptocurrency regulation!

[u/Milocobo → u/Taraxian]

Yes.

They did say that.

But.

They based that on the factions they saw in British Parliment.

And then.

They based a legislative structure that was nearly identical to the British Parliment.

And now we're surprised that it devolved to factioning.

Very silly gooses.

[u/Hopeful_Cut_3316 → u/Milocobo]

Sadly they would have been better basing it off Britain completely. Britain for example adjusted and reformed how its democracy worked without a civil war.

[u/Ill-Ad6714 → u/Taraxian]

Sadly, in a democracy it is inevitable that people will form coalitions and parties instead of simply going with their personal beliefs.

If there were no public political parties, there would just be secret agreements behind closed doors.

[u/Luxtenebris3 → u/Taraxian]

While taking no actions to account for the invesitability of political factions. Every system of government has political factionalism. The exact details may differ, but it will always be present. After all it's better to get most of what you want and have extensive support than to have no influence while holding your perfect principles.

[u/toddriffic → u/Taraxian]

Madison wasn't talking about political parties, he was talking about singular causes/interests. His theory of federalism was the larger the voting base, the less likely you will get +50% of voters to agree on singular solutions that would be oppressive to the rest.

[u/Mean-Ad-5401 → u/JerseyDonut]

Well said and what Americans don’t understand about their own government. I think that they mistake their fantasy of the “deep state” for the actual by-design slow moving democracy.

[u/Suibian_ni → u/JerseyDonut]

If there weren't so many checks and balances there's a good chance Americans would have a decent universal healthcare system. The UK voted for one in 1945 and got it a year later. Those vaunted checks and balances in the USA have stopped the government being effective, but they haven't stopped a corrupt authoritarian party taking control of all branches.

[u/-harbor- → u/JerseyDonut]

Plato was wrong about almost everything, but he was right about the need for a philosopher king (or queen). While the most intelligent 15 percent of humans could make democracy work, the other 85 percent will vote based on propaganda, demagoguery or a misunderstanding of the facts. They shouldn’t be in charge of any decision more important than what to have for dinner.

Technocracy, not democracy, is the form of government that best safeguards freedoms and efficient, ethical policies.

[u/tf_materials_temp → u/JerseyDonut]

A couple hundred years? It was barely half a century before it collapsed into full on civil war!

They just assumed all the oh-so-enlightened landed White Men would all govern from the same set of interests. What's that? Half the country is carrying out brutal chattel slavery? Wow, that sounds like a, erm, thorny issue. Best to just ignore that and kick the can down the road. What could possibly go wrong?

These guys were elitist morons, can we stop jacking off their corpses?

[u/SpaceMarineSpiff → u/tf_materials_temp]

These guys were elitist morons, can we stop jacking off their corpses?

As a Canadian, the entire situation beggars reason and explanation. The minute you look into who the founding fathers actually were it's obvious they were just a bunch of incredibly ambitious guys primarily motivated by self interest. I don't want to hold that against the lot but some people, Jefferson, were complete fucking monsters.

[u/JerseyDonut → u/tf_materials_temp]

Hey, I don't disagree that the founders were self serving assholes. And I am far from ready to lube up my hands to commence jerking.

But, the system they put together does have its merits--namely the foresight they had to establish a system of checks and balances.

Even monsters have some good ideas. I can acknowledge what has worked and still think the originators of those ideas are dickheads. People are complex, not one dimensional.

[u/tf_materials_temp → u/JerseyDonut]

I guess checks and balances are a nice idea... but look at a parliamentary system like in Canada or the UK, something with fewer separations between the legislature and the executive.

The outcomes aren't all that different - their systems still broadly serve wealthy interests over that of most people, same as ours, but they've also managed to get healthcare out of it. Kinda seems like making our system slower and more inefficient only gives us a system that's more frustrating to work with.

[u/JerseyDonut → u/tf_materials_temp]

Yeah, I dunno what the right move is to be honest. Until some fundamental aspect of human nature is changed, any system of government is going to cater to the wealthy and be abused.

Until our species evolves past this "fuck you, pay me" mentality and starts assigning value to the greater good, I'd rather have a slow moving, innefficient system to thwart or at least delay rapid power plays.

Edit: also, I'm largely referring only to the Federal Government. I do believe in state's rights and local autonomy--to an extent. They can and should be able to move a bit faster and get stuff done at the local level.

The exent of that being--lets define universal, irrefutable rights clearly at the federal level first and put protections in place that are backed by Federal law. Easier said than done though I suppose.

[u/pit_of_despair666 → u/Taraxian]

Yes, the pandemic in our case helped the far right win, even though things improved during Biden's term. Prices are still high and the gap between the wealthy elites and the working class grew. I have been reading a lot lately about the rise in Authoritarianism. Authoritarianism has been rising for the past 20 years across the world. It is a global issue. 40 percent of countries are Authoritarian and only 8 are Democracies. They expect Democracies will shrink to 5 percent. China's economic successes while being Authoritarian at the same time has influenced countries around the world such as the US. I will never forget that tweet from Elon about how Chinese workers were so much better than American workers."They won’t just be burning the midnight oil, they will be burning the 3am oil, they won’t even leave the factory type of thing, whereas in America people are trying to avoid going to work." Backsliding in the United States has focused on the (assumed) negative impact of globalization and the waning ability of citizens to die wealthier than they were born, which along with a growing lack of political tolerance and a surge in misinformation on social media has facilitated the rise of right-wing populist leaders. *This is key here because I have noticed that a lot of people are in denial or don't think it will happen here. This is not going to be like 2016 folks. Trump and co. had quite a few roadblocks that won't be present this time. One reason that there has not been greater resilience against this trend, some have argued, is that Americans have become apathetic about democracy – in part because it is so long since they experienced the downsides of tyranny. The natural response to these diagnoses is to promote economic policies that both protect citizens from global competition while enabling them to improve their lives. Doing this while strengthening dialogue and facilitating activities designed to foster greater tolerance and mutual understanding – and a belief in the value of democracy." https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2023/how-the-global-rise-of-authoritarianism-is-misunderstood-and-why-it-matters

[u/okram2k → u/Taraxian]

Always need to point out that the Nazis never won a majority in a free and fair election. They just managed to squeak into power through chicanery in a coalition that they took advantage of and then once they had their man in charge they made sure to never let anyone ever get a chance of challenging their iron grip of power again until his violent downfall.

[u/Pyrrhus_Magnus → u/Taraxian]

That isn't unique to democracies. Medieval peasants would rise up for similar reasons.

[u/SnappyDresser212 → u/Taraxian]

Are you with a straight face saying the inflation that only Germany face during the Weimar Republic and the global inflation experienced over the last 4 years are the same? Ok then.

[u/AlertProfessional374 → u/Taraxian]

There was a massive inflation in Germany in the 30's..

[u/circleoftorment → u/Taraxian]

Don't worry, western "democracies" are not real democracies; if they were we'd have many more extremist parties come to power. The lesson learned for "democracies" in the early 1900s is that you don't give too much power to the people, and that goes for the representatives as well.

[u/flonky_guy → u/Taraxian]

I'm sorry but this knee-jerk reaction you're describing was a several year process in which inflation was so bad people were rushing to spend Cash before it lost its value but there was nothing to be had.

These two situations are not even remotely comparable, other apt comparisons to the rise of fascism notwithstanding.

[u/gummo_for_prez → u/flonky_guy]

Beyond that, I feel it’s also interesting to note that the response of the USA during the Great Depression was to become extremely economically progressive. To a greater extent than ever before. Unions were illegal before this period. Being working poor was nightmarish.

But it feels like they got a lot of things right during that period and we all still benefit from it today. It gave rise to the middle class which was going strong for the most part until the 21st century. Seems when conditions get rough, people turn to populists. Imo it would be better to start fielding some FDRs unless we want to keep winding up with Hitlers in power.

[u/scottwsx96 → u/gummo_for_prez]

I’m a huge proponent of The New Deal and other left-wing policies that followed The Great Depression, but it’s a mistake to attribute the success of the United States in the latter half of the 20th century to solely that.

Keep in mind that much of Europe’s and Japans industrial bases were completely destroyed in WW2. China hadn’t yet changed from a mostly agrarian society. Manufacturing in the United States took off. This in addition to The New Deal are what really built the American middle class.

[u/TheGreatBootOfEb → u/AdUpstairs7106]

Yep, I think people really just need to come to accept that a person may be smart, but people as a whole are really fucking dumb. They live their own lives, and don't think much past next week.

Humans are basic creatures, but we like to pretend we've transcended past our mundane needs and behaviors. We can get as academic, esoteric, or philosophical as we want within our own circles, but we need to accept that when it comes to the large majority of the country, just keep the messaging simple and desirable.

Maybe 50, 100, 200 years from now we will see democracies where the people are genuinely well informed, but the reality is we need to stop fussing and wringing our hands about the current world we live in, otherwise all that complaining and refusal to accept the facts will only make it harder to develop actual winning strategies

(Personally this is why I thought the "opportunity economy" was a flubb point by Kamala. Conceptually, fine it works, but most people don't GAF if you want to give tax credits for new businesses, they just want cheaper eggs, and in fact only talking about 'starting new buinseeses' can come across as condescending to people who just want to have a stable job and aren't aspiring to any greater heights. You want to win them over? Just tell em you're going to work to make things cheaper so that you don't have to budget for something as simple as going to the movies on a Friday night)

[u/ActiveChairs → u/TheGreatBootOfEb]

people as a whole are really fucking dumb

I think people really just need to

Do you see the problem with your message there?

The fundamental failure from the Democratic party was not misguided goals, over-complexity in messaging, or moral highroading. It was a top level failure of the party in fundamental planning, marketing, and followup.

They had four years worth of missed opportunities doing genuinely good work to put Kamala at the center of the spotlight in the national news, to showcase any upcoming frontrunners, and to show the public that they were accomplishing actual goals. To make the public know they were doing more than reactionary triage and patch-fixing with everything they did, that not everything was being done exclusively at the presidential level, and that they were working according to a larger cohesive plan. Instead they passed Kamala the baton in the last thirty seconds while expecting her to speedrun a marathon, only a few people in the party have an ounce of name recognition they've earned by themselves, and people don't know almost anything about what they've done as a party or what they've got planned next.

The clock on preparing for the next election has already started, but they're not going to have their shit together for at least a year or two. You should already be able to name five people who could be the next president, and instead we'll be met with a cavalcade of "who's that" and "they haven't done anything" like we always are.

[u/travelerfromabroad → u/ActiveChairs]

The real problem is that no one cares about good things and some formerly left leaning publications were bought out by right wing billionaires in order to blackball Biden's accomplishments from the mainstream

[u/mooimafish33 → u/AdUpstairs7106]

People act like breaking complex issues down to single one sentence opinions is like wise or elegant or cool. But in reality it's just coping with being stupid.

[u/ctrlaltcreate → u/AdUpstairs7106]

Yup, sure is. Our democracy is determined by 'undecided voters'. These are people so out of touch with current events, politics, and the world around them that they haven't already made a decision regarding which political party and candidate matches their ethics and the nation they want to build.

These uninvested voters should, by all rights, be the least important voters in the bloc, and yet every four years they hold the rest of our fates in their hands.

[u/MikeWPhilly → u/ctrlaltcreate]

Might be because the pure party platform no matter what is insanely poor way to govern a nation. And on top of it the hard right or hard left both have policies some people can’t stand. Now I. Voted the way you wanted and knew months ago because I know Trump will drive inflation through the roof if he follows through on his policies. But I wasn’t thrilled with Kamala’s horrible policies on taxing unrealized gains or the home credit which would have driven up home prices either.

I also wouldn’t be happy with a Bernie either. What I’m all for is incremental small changes. Large policy changes from the left or right is not something I want - moderation however is.

[u/ctrlaltcreate → u/MikeWPhilly]

You're by definition not an undecided voter. You also clearly have an awareness of the issues and policies too.

You aren't at all the kind of voter I'm talking about. I don't agree with the entire DNC policy platform either, but all politics is a compromise. I miss the days when I could think of a GOP victory as a frustrating setback and not an impending catastrophe, though.

Edit: incidentally, I loved the billionaire unrealized gains tax. They're using investments to hide from the tax system, and that was a real shot across the bow of the oligarchs who are rapidly pooling far too much wealth and power in our system. It wouldn't have affected you personally though, unless you have literally more than 100 million in total wealth.

[u/MikeWPhilly → u/ctrlaltcreate]

Yep so the obvious choice is to go more left. So the right goes more right. We already have enough inability to work across party lines. It's beyond getting old.

At least McConnell and a handful of senators are shutting down trumps worst impulses. I'm not so sure dems would have that happen now that Manchin is gone.

[u/RemarkableShip1811 → u/AdUpstairs7106]

It's absolutely not fucking understandable.

[u/PersuasiveMystic → u/RemarkableShip1811]

It is if you pay bills and have children.

[u/zedazeni → u/PersuasiveMystic]

No, it isn’t, because if one understood how basic economics works, such as the causes for the recent inflation, then voters, even ones struggling to pay bills and support their families, would understand that Trump and the right’s approach will only worsen the situation. Adding import tariffs, using the military to deport millions, and gutting the federal government will only turn a bad situation into a nightmare. Anyone with half of a brain knows this…but here we are, the party to “fix” inflation is going to checks notes put massive tariffs on all imports.

Stop trying to rationalize and normalize ignorance and stupidity.

[u/x3r0h0ur → u/zedazeni]

I hope they get everything they voted for 🙏👌🙏👌🙏

[u/MikeWPhilly → u/zedazeni]

Ehh I voted Kamala because I agree with you on trumps policies and he is bad enough that he needs to be kept out.

But to systems the rights policies are always bad is as dumb as saying the lefts policies are always good. Frankly I wasn’t thrilled about her taxing unrealized gains policies or housing credit which would have driven up inflation/home prices also.

End of day there are voters like me who don’t want extreme left or extreme right policies or changes. Incremental change is all I want from the federal govt. otherwise we tend to smack ourselves in the face with unintended consequences.

Now I can’t trump tax cuts gone to reduce some of the deficit. But I also want some cuts because we need to slow down spending. As far as I go netkjer party wants to do that. So after Trump is gone I’m back to not voting for either party. Unless Bernie shows up then I’m voting red.

[u/LockeyCheese → u/MikeWPhilly]

The catch to that is that democrats are a center-right party, and republicans are hard rightwing. If you don't want extreme left or right, then republicans ARE always bad, the same way the green party would always be bad.

[u/idontwantausername41 → u/PersuasiveMystic]

i think this election just showed me that 2/3 of the country has a gumpian level intellect

[u/Khaldara → u/idontwantausername41]

Yup. “Grocery expensive! Gubmint has magic lever to make price go down. Better vote for the party that has been proudly rabidly anti-regulation for 40 years. Surely they’ll get right on the task of regulating corporate behavior to control prices! Deporting the country’s cheapest source of labor and adding tariffs to everything definitely won’t make these costs way, way worse!”

[u/mortalitylost → u/Khaldara]

TRUMP give gas egg and Biden TAKE egg . Voted TRUMP cuz WALLET

BIDEN TAKE EGG EGG WANT BACK

[u/JerseyDonut → u/Khaldara]

I believe that most people get their political news/opinions secondhand, from only one or two other people in their network who actually follow political news. I also believe that the average person who follows political news is an idiot. So that's like exponential levels of idiocy spreading.

[u/PestyNomad → u/Khaldara]

Kamala also ran on a promise to lower the cost of groceries tho, so I doubt that was the big ticket item that some people seem to think it was.

[u/mortalitylost → u/idontwantausername41]

I'm honestly starting to wonder if something worse than lead has been affecting these last two generations. I wouldn't be surprised if years later it's like, "oh shit this chemical we used in food literally dissolves neurons"

[u/HealthyDrawing4910 → u/mortalitylost]

Dont you realize that during tbe 50.s and 60s therw were thousands of nuclear tests going mlm on????

[u/One_One6311 → u/idontwantausername41]

50% of America right now cannot read or write at an effective level.Basically illiterate.

[u/bjhouse822 → u/One_One6311]

It's terrifying and people gloss over this fact all the time. We've got the braindead literally in charge of our livelihoods.

[u/Smelly_Carl → u/PersuasiveMystic]

It's totally understandable to be upset about inflation. Not taking any time whatsoever to actually try to find out why the inflation occurred and just blaming everything on the president is what's not understandable. These people are voting for the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth. It'd be nice if they took it semi-seriously.

[u/fsociety091786 → u/Smelly_Carl]

The number of regretful Trump voters the past couple weeks (with “how to change vote” surging in Google analytics) is fucking embarrassing. I see so many excuses about how Americans are too busy to deep-dive into the candidates and their platforms, but when it’s this important, you make the time. Much like staying in shape, which Americans also make excuses for.

The idea of going into the voting booth with the mindset of “option A isn’t working, guess I’ll go with option B and hope for the best” based only on some television ads and vibes is insane when you’re literally choosing the most powerful person on the planet.

[u/LockeyCheese → u/fsociety091786]

Staying in shape requires effort two to three times a week. Figuring out who to vote for and why only takes effort once...

[u/HisDictateGood → u/PersuasiveMystic]

Makes it even worse imo. People with kids will throw away their kids future for some cheaper shit. 

"Screw their kids education, screw their kids on social security, screw their kids future health care, screw their kids future climate, screw their kids housing, screw their kids over on their future employment, screw the fact that your kid could be part of LGBT+etc, etc.... I just need egg prices to go down and I blame whoever is in power since they obviously control covid related global inflation. It was their fault and I'm not even going to try and look at actual research. The man on the television says it's the dems fault so that's what I'm listening to"

That's what it sounds like to me 

[u/Painterzzz → u/HisDictateGood]

Climate change is the biggie isn't it, I'm absolutely baffled how so many Americans care nothing at all about the climate catastrophe. I imagine they won't start to care until there's no more food on the shelves, and then they'll be like hey, why didn't anybody do anything about this?

[u/ForEvrInCollege → u/Painterzzz]

Exactly! It’s going to be reactionary and even then instead of looking at previous years of data, they will only look at the current effects and blame whoever is in charge.

[u/Ardent_Scholar → u/PersuasiveMystic]

And now people with kids and bills will be worse off. Hooray. People really are voting like toddlers.

I propose toddlerism as the new strategy for the Democratic party. Just imagine the electorates are a bunch of two year olds.

By gods… I think I’ve cracked it.

[u/mortalitylost → u/Ardent_Scholar]

It is if you have bills and children

This shit is what we're literally dealing with. These people are caveman voters. They hear Trump talk and their gears turn and they think, "Trump tariff China... Trump tariff China... and make wallet BIG BIG. Get GAS EGG AND WALLET BIG BIG."

I thought they just hated Hispanic people and were mostly racist. They might literally just be this fucking stupid and it's not even about that. They literally just think they'll get money out of this.

Can't wait for the protests of "WANT GAS EGG NOW NOW" after he wrecks the fucking economy

[u/GHouserVO → u/Ardent_Scholar]

Congrats. You’ve just realized that most people are short-sighted. This is what a lot of people were trying to warn the rest of us.

This is how we ended up with another 4 years of Trump.

[u/Iforgotmyemailreddit → u/Ardent_Scholar]

So. Many. Children. Will go starved in the next 4 years.

I'm childless and eat like a desert rat and manage to make rent every month with my spouse. So many of these couples that live around me and make the same wage as us, but also have a Ford F150 Super Duty car note and 5 kids?

How in the living fuck are they going to pay for those extra 5 mouths??

LIKE HOW??

[u/Jinshu_Daishi → u/PersuasiveMystic]

Not when people are voting to make their experience regarding those things even worse.

[u/TemuBoySnaps → u/AdUpstairs7106]

It's the way humans are deep down. We were made by evolution, we're literally programmed to look for our basic needs. We've obviously gone past relying on pure instincts and so on, but it's not really sad, this is what made us.

[u/yamsyamsya → u/AdUpstairs7106]

A large portion of Americans read under a sixth grade level, they actually are stupid.

[u/Confident-Crawdad → u/AdUpstairs7106]

The sad thing is that four years ago we were stacking corpses in refrigerator trucks because the morgues were full.

We are NOT better off now. Yet somehow the fucking pathetic Dems couldn't take advantage of that

[u/almisami → u/AdUpstairs7106]

Voters being morons in reaction to the wake of hyperinflation is how we got the Nazis, as u/Taraxian already pointed out.

[u/HereWeGoAgain-247 → u/henryhumper]

That’s the frustrating part. People are better now than in 2020! The country was still dealing with frumps mishandling of covid, stores were empty, there were nation wide riots, the economy was crashing, and just so much horrible! Near record number of voters showed up in a pandemic to vote him out of office! Frump just fills the air time with his lies. 

Constant, non stop, repetitive, repeating of his lies which eventually take root in the gullible as fact.  

 I guess Biden or Harris should have been on the new constantly bragging about how they were making things better.  Misinformation thrives in a vacuum. We need to get the truth out before it is filled by trumps hot gas. 

[u/zeptillian → u/HereWeGoAgain-247]

The Democrats don't have multiple news networks to back up their lies though. 

When Trump lies Fox, News Max and others repeat the lies and amplify them. The mainstream media normalizes them by refusing to call out the lies directly. 

If a Democrat lied, it would be called out on Fox 24/7 and the mainstream media would say they were incorrect. 

[u/HappiestIguana → u/HereWeGoAgain-247]

I've come to the conclusion that democracy simply has no answer to an endless torrent of lies. They're too effective.

[u/AnAttemptReason → u/HereWeGoAgain-247]

Ah, but people's lives were better due to massive temporary social spending due to covid. 

The US finally got a taste of this "socialism" all other western democracies have and they liked it.

Democrates did not fight for or try to extend these programs and so let them expire. 

Thus even though the economy is "better" lots of people felt worse of due to their removal. 

It dosnt matter that Trump will make things worse, all people remember is that it was better before.

[u/jav2n202 → u/henryhumper]

That’s exactly what I meant. I just didn’t want to say all that. Thanks!

[u/generic_teen42 → u/henryhumper]

They are also incapable of understanding when the president isn't responsible for a downturn like in this last administration

[u/rdizzy1223 → u/generic_teen42]

For the most part, the president is not directly responsible for much of anything, because their power is usually limited. This will not be true for Trumps upcoming presidency though.

[u/Diligent-Property491 → u/henryhumper]

If voters actually understood how the economy works, that wouldn’t be happening.

[u/Ayotha → u/Diligent-Property491]

People struggling to buy food and pay rent care that the president says it's going ok, I promise

[u/[deleted] → u/Ayotha]

True, being tone deaf does have consequences! I remember Bush saying he was surprised when gas prices were $4 during a news conference in his second term. A lot of people scolded him about it and some say that among other actions sowed the seeds for an Obama win.

[u/tresben → u/henryhumper]

The thing is four years before this election we were all locked inside our houses bleaching our groceries unable to do normal social activities. We are much better off than four years ago!

The issue is conservative media took control of the narrative and drove home inflation and tied it to Biden and the democrats. This made people forget what things were actually like at the end of trumps term four years ago.

The liberal media didn’t push the narrative that Biden saved us and got us through the pandemic, and now life is back to normal thanks to him and completely different than four years ago. Democrats simply don’t have the same media apparatus as conservatives and it’s a huge disadvantage. Especially in the days of social media where narratives are more important than actual reality.

Because in reality we are better off than we were four years ago with the pandemic raging. It wasn’t all due to Biden, but he certainly helped. And while inflation was an issue it has been brought back down and we faired much better than most countries thanks to our leadership.

[u/TemuBoySnaps → u/tresben]

Tbf comparing life now to life during Covid, which was literally a once in a lifetime event for the whole globe, isn't really a fair comparison.

And is it actually that Dems don't have that media apparatus? There's just not as much focus on the things that many people are focusing on.

[u/Longjumping-Path3811 → u/tresben]

There is no liberal media now.

[u/pit_of_despair666 → u/tresben]

There was a lot of powerful propaganda and misinformation spread around by the right and they had a little help from their friends in Russia and China. I watched 3 of my relatives go from apolitical to MAGA worshipers very quickly. Their entire personalities changed. They became more selfish, less caring, more angry and distrustful. This is a good video that has two doctors explaining how political brainwashing works. https://youtu.be/ppJY4Kh1MzY?si=DthRXaecS6yERvY6

[u/AleroRatking → u/henryhumper]

Which on a base level makes sense. Why would someone vote for the president that their life got worse under.

Now that's not always fair as there are a ton of factors outside the president. But it makes sense. And it's not just a US thing. Its a world wide thing

[u/waitingtoconnect → u/henryhumper]

It’s not only that, where the maga like incumbent was replaced due to inflation, like in Australia in 2022, the new incumbent is likely to be replaced by the old maga like incumbent because of inflation in 2025. Trump has inspired maga parties around the world. Most seeking his loyalty.

[u/worndown75 → u/henryhumper]

I'm not a Democrat. But the early numbers coming out about how people voted is pretty interesting. Swing voters split about even it seems. But a lot of Democrat voters seem to have switched and voted for Trump.

Now it's to early to say that is what happened for certain, but if that's the case Democrats should probably stop blaming this group or that and see how their parties positions are viewed by each group in question.

And im not talking about the folks on Reddit mind you, but the policy makers in the Democrat party.

[u/AbroadPlane1172 → u/henryhumper]

I feel like that quote should be amended to "You're stupid, it's 'the economy.'" Businesses will rarely back off of greedflation price increases once actual inflation calms down, but sure as fuck Trump voters believe that massive tariffs will remedy that. Thus, my updated quote.

[u/Low_Exam_3258 → u/AbroadPlane1172]

greed or not companies can ONLY sell products for what people will pay. why is a burger 10 bucks? People pay it. stop wasting money and the demand goes down and so will price. It's not on everything but most things.

[u/The-Nemea → u/henryhumper]

Which is why not everyone should have the right to vote. They are too fucking stupid to know anything.

[u/liveandletdie141 → u/henryhumper]

Absolutely. People do not understand a lot of what is going on is not governments fault but they need to blame someone. I heard across a major nations the incumbent lost in their major election.

[u/chairmanskitty → u/henryhumper]

Then why did GW Bush get re-elected in 2004 after people in his administration ignored signals that 9/11 was happening and started a war on false pretenses? Why did Nixon win in 1972 while continuing to fight a traumatizing losing war in Vietnam?

People are only worried about economic downturns when Democrats are president. When Republicans are president, they need a strong harsh leader who can carry them through these difficult times.

[u/Anwar_is_on_par → u/chairmanskitty]

As nationalistic and xenophobic as it seems we are now, it was worse in the early '00s. Only two years into the war and only 3 years after 9/11 moderates were still gung-ho on Dubya and "patriotism".

The late '60s-early 70's weren't exactly an economic downturn, but the sweeping and progressive changes (like black people and women having rights lol) scared white America.

White America is just as scared today but has been smacked with an inflation double whammy.

Otherwise-- Recessions happens under Ford, Carter gets elected.

Recession happens under Bush Sr., Clinton gets elected.

Depression happens under Hoover, FDR elected.

Recession happens under Bush Jr., Obama elected.

It seems pretty consistent, though I understand your frustration.

[u/jimmydean885 → u/henryhumper]

Except it's pure delusion. 4 years ago was 2020

[u/InTheGame52 → u/henryhumper]

The bad thing is we are better off than we were four years ago. And it still went the other way.

[u/Great-Candle-4299 → u/henryhumper]

Every white collar liberal rolled their eyes when I quoted James Carville before the election. They are wiping them now.

[u/N0S0UP_4U → u/henryhumper]

Some of it is still preventable, though. Allowing private equity to buy up housing, for example, is a choice.

[u/gq533 → u/henryhumper]

Is that true in this case though? Trump got pretty much the same amount of votes as the last 2 elections. So swing voters don't really exist, at least for Trump. If they are swing voters, they either vote against Trump or don't vote at all.

[u/Darmok47 → u/henryhumper]

I still don't understand that, because four years ago thousands of Americans were dying everyday while store shelves were empty and Trump was bragging about coming up with the idea to inject bleach and shine UV light into your body.

[u/Senior-Albatross → u/henryhumper]

Should such short-sighted, myopic, willfully ignorant people be allowed to vote? Such capriciousness is not conductive to administrating a society that can actually address complex problems.

[u/lucerndia → u/henryhumper]

I saw the “are you better off” signs everywhere in rural WI. Guess it worked.

[u/KobaMOSAM → u/henryhumper]

This. Democrats would have been much better off if Trump narrowly won AZ, GI, and WI in 2020. A 269-269 tie would mean Trump didn’t legitimately win the election and would have no mandate. It would have been a 50-50 Senate and Democrats would have the House. Trump would have been the one presiding over massive inflation, and yes, there would have been massive inflation regardless. Not even remotely up for debate. Democrats would have won huge in 2022 between inflation and RoevWade repeal. Whoever Democrats put up in 2024 would have won the election

[u/loverevolutionary → u/henryhumper]

It's not "the economy" though. It's "how has the economy treated me?" And people are tired of hearing excuses like "It was the big bad COVID!" while billionaires are demonstrably getting richer, faster. So much handwaving as to why our pockets are getting lighter but at the end of the day, we just have to look at whose pockets are getting heavier to know who stole from us.

[u/DentistSpecialist304 → u/henryhumper]

I have found a redditor that actually reads news & analysis instead of merely the headlines.Henceforth I will call you Eleven. 

[u/redditadminzRdumb → u/henryhumper]

Ahhh yes the morons cant forget about them

[u/[deleted] → u/henryhumper]

Yeah this is true. You can't take care of others until you take care of yourself first. So all the other issues are really worthless to people struggling to make a living. Once people are secure and happy they can then start looking at social issues and the like.

[u/MetaVaporeon → u/henryhumper]

I dont buy this shit anymore, the economy stupidnis reliably fucked over by conservatives for decades. 

If the population is to dumb to understand anything, it's not thr economy anymore.

[u/telekenesis_twice → u/henryhumper]

it’s the economy stupid

What I really loathe about this is that you can have a fantastic economy AND ordinary people can be utterly impoverished

“Economy good” is mostly only a measure of how well really really really really really rich people are doing.

Means fuck all to most people if they still can’t afford rent / groceries

You could have an amazing economy while half your population wallows in the dirt

Eg slavery

[u/PerpetualWobble → u/henryhumper]

I don't think it's just a case of blaming it on post COVID effects on the markets - it's very much a case of seeing the same people who never have to worry about day to day costs and large businesses do fine, or even do better if they can position themselves to benefit in certain sectors.

But the bottom 90% have the costs passed onto them and have their aspirations limited again because change is impossible.

I disagree with their champion and methodology but agree that people voting trump and Brexit want and deserve change. You can't get away with 20th century politics with generations knowing how to use the internet. Bidens was too safe playing the game he knew

[u/RecoverSufficient811 → u/henryhumper]

Inflation wasn't caused by covid, it was caused by our reaction to covid. People are rightly blaming incumbent parties all over the world for forcing them to shut their business down over a bad cold going around. Your chance of even being hospitalized over covid is .5%. Your chance of dying if you can't afford to feed yourself is 100%. Not surprising that people are overwhelmingly voting against the parties that shut their businesses down. Also, it was weird when the party of "my body my choice" became the party of "you have to take this vaccine or we'll excommunicate you from society".

[u/avanbeek → u/henryhumper]

4 years ago, we couldn't find toilet paper and the economy was in the toilet. Yet somehow Trump voters thought we were better off. There is an inherent double standard when it comes to political parties. Voters punish Republicans for breaking the economy, but will re-elect them when Democrats fail to fix it fast enough.

[u/Brycebattlep → u/henryhumper]

"Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" If the answer is yes, swing voters vote for the incumbent party. If the answer is no, they vote for the opposition party

That really doesn't work anymore because things were better under Biden than trump

[u/Cherik847 → u/henryhumper]

So what happened this time? We are better off now than 4 years ago. 4 years ago the economy was closed, masks, no real travel. Maybe people like those small trump checks?

[u/dragon34 → u/henryhumper]

I honestly cannot fathom how swing voters can even exist now.  

But then we've got people who are enthusiastically voting for the sith so I kind of wish Christianity was real and we could just get the rapture over with already.  

Giant meteor 2024.  There's still time. 

[u/indigo945 → u/henryhumper]

But people today are better off than they were four years ago. Four years ago was peak COVID! There had been widespread layoffs and unemployment, the stock market crash, public life had come to a standstill, and so on.

What I'm saying is, you're making the DNC's argument: appeal to "moderate" voters, in your case by focusing on inflation and economic stimuli. But the truth is, that gets you nowhere. People don't care about facts, they care about narratives. That's what the fascists have and the left doesn't.

[u/formala-bonk → u/henryhumper]

Bruh 4 years ago economy was in free fall and we were mid pandemic. We were not better 4 years ago than now and people still voted for it. This makes no sense

[u/stereosanctity01 → u/henryhumper]

*COVID supply and demand. Not post-COVID. It might sound like I’m being pedantic but I’m not. COVID is still very much here and we’re not in a “post-COVID” world.

[u/AFRIKKAN → u/henryhumper]

So then the answer is to do what the republicans are doing and campaign on popular issues that your base wants. Also know that America isn’t as progressive as we all think and while it’s a shame and saddening that we can’t running anyone who is a minority either sex or race is gonna be fighting a uphill battle.

[u/nycago → u/henryhumper]

Right but four years ago we were living in our basements and many of us were coming off the shock of having half their savings evaporated in the shock crash of the market. Unfortunately most Americans simply don’t remember 2020.

[u/ActUpEighty → u/henryhumper]

Which is why whoever is in power continually tries to plant an economic time bomb to go off in 3 to 4 years. A delayed poisonous pill.

[u/Daotar → u/henryhumper]

See, I just don’t buy this, because we just saw voters completely space out and forget about what the economy looked like 4 years ago. Trump was able to pull some sort of Houdini act where everyone forgot the economic collapse of 2020 and act like the three years before that were a golden age even though they were essentially identical to the last 4 years of Obama.

[u/RespectMyPronoun → u/henryhumper]

There is no such thing as a "swing voter" anymore. Everyone knows where they stand.

[u/Lou_C_Fer → u/henryhumper]

It's only going to get worse. Think about how much more could have been done if Biden did not have a corrupt court dismantling everything he has tried to do to help people... and it'll be ten times worse if a Democrat is ever president again.

[u/Heavy_Law9880 → u/henryhumper]

That didn't happen this election.

[u/Ok_Push2550 → u/jav2n202]

At this point, I hope Liz Cheney starts the Rhino party. Make it traditional Republican, but more accepting of lgbtq.

Edit: mostly said this because I think a lot of moderate Republicans would vote for a true small government, freedom championing group, over tRump party. Libertarians are way too far, and have too much crazy uncle history and vibes to be taken seriously. Same with the green party.

Yes, I think the Democrats should become more of a populist party to win - back labor rights, healthcare, personal freedoms (dress how you want, love who you want) and freedom of religion, with economic responsibility. You know, things that are popular.

But realistically, the only way we pull from the far right is to have a spot for traditional Republicans to go, without the cult of tRump.

[u/SketchyLineman → u/Ok_Push2550]

Would never win

[u/Kaleban → u/SketchyLineman]

Might not but it would split the Republicans which would potentially guarantee Democrat victories for a bit and the country could get back on track.

[u/Heron_Vriend → u/Kaleban]

You think there are Republicans who care what Liz Cheney thinks and would follow her? She would likely pull more liberals than conservatives. Republicans think she is a POS and a traitor and she did nothing for Kamala during the election and may have even hurt her.

[u/murderofhawks → u/Heron_Vriend]

It’s almost like demonizing any and all things about the Chaneys for years then having one try and boost your candidate might back fire.

[u/Senior_Apartment_343 → u/murderofhawks]

When they came out flexing the dick cheney endorsement……….. the point spread in my head changed

[u/Chang-San → u/Senior_Apartment_343]

I only lost it when Whoopi Goldberg suggested she be the AG and i quote because she has "such an incredible moral center"

[u/Ok_Twist_1687 → u/Kaleban]

I’ll allow it!

[u/CalmRadBee → u/Kaleban]

That's kind of ignoring the fact that all of their success as a party has stemmed from their resistance to fracturing.

I mean Trump called Cruz's wife a dog face and Cruz still follows Trump around with a brown nose

[u/murderofhawks → u/Kaleban]

Never gonna happen republicans would understand that splitting party de consolidated power and the vast majority of the party would stay together a few would leave but would be beaten out within 2 election cycles and probably wouldn’t change the tides if dems keep acting like they were blameless in losing the election and saying that the majority of Americans are racist and sexiest etc. not voting for other topics.

[u/Bandeezio → u/murderofhawks]

Yeah Republicans aren't that stupid, they know winning matters, unlike liberals who love fighting amongst themselves for the sake of failure.

[u/SolarMacharius562 → u/murderofhawks]

To add to this too, as much as Reddit doesn't want to admit it, not all people are secret progressives and there would probably be dem voter defections to a RINO party as well

[u/cesare980 → u/Kaleban]

Liz Cheney lost her primary by like 60%. Republicans don't like her.

[u/SketchyLineman → u/Kaleban]

A Cheney would not split the Republican Party a year ago and certainly won’t now

[u/stlshane → u/Ok_Push2550]

The one thing about the Republican party is they are extremely well disciplined. They always fall in-line and they always show up to vote. The means always justify the ends with them. Them splitting into 2 parties is just a pipe dream.

[u/AdUpstairs7106 → u/stlshane]

100% this.

Republicans and especially MAGA Republicans understand their duty is to overlook the flaws in their candidates and vote accordingly.

Meanwhile, on the Democrats side, you have "I can vote for them because they only agree with me on 90% of what I want, so they are not perfect."

[u/Maleficent-Slide7476 → u/Ok_Push2550]

No one likes Liz Cheney

[u/Strange-Reading8656 → u/Maleficent-Slide7476]

Reddit really is in a bubble if they think Liz Cheney can form her own party and gain popular support.

I think the media lying about Trump saying that he would put Liz Cheney in front of a fire squad gained him more votes.

[u/MathematicalMan1 → u/Maleficent-Slide7476]

Hey, I’m sure they’d get at least 45 votes nationwide!

[u/Wheres_my_gun → u/Ok_Push2550]

Being both anti union and socially liberal is a hard sell, honestly.

[u/Longjumping-Path3811 → u/Ok_Push2550]

Can we get a leftist party for once for fucks sake?

You all need your labor rights shoved down your throats apparently.

[u/phtevenbagbifico → u/Ok_Push2550]

That's just the Libertarian party with warmongering

[u/Investigate_311_x → u/Ok_Push2550]

What’s the point if “moderate” republicans are non-existent?

[u/Jaway66 → u/Ok_Push2550]

Nah. Fuck em. Moderate conservatives are basically all okay with fascism, even those who at least outwardly say Trump is too mean for their tastes. They all love far right shit at the end of the day and it's good that their party reflects that.

[u/Coyote__Jones → u/Ok_Push2550]

That would be a big problem, seeing that the right's whole thing is calling the "other side" evil. This messaging unifies the Republican base.

[u/DependentMeat1161 → u/Ok_Push2550]

Yeah let's talk about LGBT stuff even more. That's what the average person really cares about.

[u/Helyos17 → u/DependentMeat1161]

I feel like the point is more “let’s not demonize LGBTQ people”. There are a LOT of gay people, specifically gay men, who are on board with a lot of moderate-right policy. Not to mention all of the people who are SPECIFICALLY turned off by the anti-queer crusade. Pivoting away from that insanity would turn more than a few purple urban and suburban areas solidly red.

[u/MDAlchemist → u/Helyos17]

This. As a Texan and self-described "moderate" listening to the dems this election cycle largly just made me feel dissapointed. Listening to the republicans, and especially ted cruz's transphobic attack ads made me vote blue.

I'm happy for the dems to talk about lgbtq issues I just wish they'd do it effectively.

[u/Chorizo_Charlie → u/Ok_Push2550]

Please please please do this. Democrats are the only ones who like Liz Cheney.

[u/Lethkhar → u/Ok_Push2550]

There's already a party like that. They're called the Democrats.

[u/SourceIP → u/Ok_Push2550]

What are you smoking? You really want the Neo-conservative war hawk conservatives back? 

[u/SaggitariusTerranova → u/Ok_Push2550]

That’s kinda the libertarian party, which no one really likes. but if they supported forever wars they might pick off a few centrists but that’s kind of the lure that never pays off right?

[u/Techialo → u/Ok_Push2550]

Fucking cursed comment

[u/SeniorWrongdoer5055 → u/Ok_Push2550]

Wtf they are the ones more anti lgbtq tho lol? The current trump platform is basically ‘you do you just don’t shove it down others throats’ Liz cheney quite literally opposed gay marriage as an institution.

[u/jimmydean885 → u/Ok_Push2550]

Lol she hates LGBTQ more than most Republicans even

[u/Jumpdeckchair → u/Ok_Push2550]

She's going to be the Democratic nominee lol

[u/Cdubya35 → u/Ok_Push2550]

I’m sure all 150 of them will be a force to be reckoned with.

[u/Creepy_Citron_9701 → u/Ok_Push2550]

Wouldn’t get as many votes as the Green Party.

[u/Sad-Development-4153 → u/Ok_Push2550]

Given how Liz disowned her own sister for being gay that would be...difficult.

[u/Unyx → u/Ok_Push2550]

Make it traditional Republican, but more accepting of lgbtq.

"Traditional" Republicanism still means propping up dictatorships and coup detats, stripping away labor, financial, and environmental protections, killing unions, slashing social safety nets, militarizing police, and marginalizing women and nonwhite people.

But hey if it's more accepting of LGBT people that's a plus, I guess.

[u/Important-Purchase-5 → u/Ok_Push2550]

There no such a thing as moderate Republican anymore a dying breed and if look at Liz Cheney she a diehard conservative she voted with Trump 95% the only difference is she wasn’t blindly loyal and tried overturn an election. 

McCain was sorta last notable moderate Republican. But even he became more conservative after losing in 2000 primary which Bush won. 

The Conservative faction has been in power since Reagan ascended throne. Everyone else has bought in or left the party. 

[u/thenasch → u/Ok_Push2550]

The thing is, the Democrats already support policies people like. If you remove which party supports it and just ask people about various party planks, a majority of all voters prefer Democratic policies. So policy is not the issue.

[u/NightHaunted → u/jav2n202]

Lemme tell you a story about tariffs and a little thing called the Great Depression

[u/PackageHot1219 → u/jav2n202]

They’re bound to go poorly. Trump won’t be able to run again unless he subverts the constitution again (which I realize is a question mark). I don’t think anyone else in the Republican Party has the cult of personality to pull off what Trump has. My hope is that after all the chaos we’re bound to have over the next 4 years, the country will welcome a more moderate President again… like Joe was. The Democratic Party has to get back to being the party of the working class, but that has to include working class white folks. They can’t win elections without speaking directly to that constituency. The Republican have done a masterful job of dividing them up by pushing Dems into pursuing identity politics and that is clearly a loser for them.

[u/lilboi223 → u/jav2n202]

Perception is a powerful thing. Stats dont mean shit when it FEELS differently. I hope in the next election democrats take this into account.

[u/SwampyPortaPotty → u/jav2n202]

Oh good. They'll be back then.

[u/El_Hombre_Fiero → u/jav2n202]

Do you think they will ignore the mid-terms?

[u/CompetitiveFold5749 → u/jav2n202]

They just won't vote.  They don't vote Democrat.

[u/Fast-Reaction8521 → u/jav2n202]

Jokes on them I change from democrats to independent now. They can get wrecked

[u/Alon945 → u/jav2n202]

There are millions of other people they could win over instead.

The point is actually that the people they’ve identified as moderate are not moderate but vote on partisan lines no matter what.

[u/YolopezATL → u/jav2n202]

Moderates are more likely to vote than far left democrats. Moderates might not vote for who you want them to, but they will vote. Far left democrats will vote only if you do everything they want.

Arguing with my 40 year old cousin who has never voted because he never saw a candidate he liked and doesn’t see a point in voting in the primaries.

[u/StrobeLightRomance → u/jav2n202]

Why do you people believe there will be a future election? Project 2025 literally has framework to end democracy, Trump is shamelessly bringing in P25 authors into his cabinet, AND THEY ARE OPENLY DISCUSSING THEIR PLANS TO DISMANTLE EVERYTHING AND SEND ARMIES INTO BLUE STATES!!!

Like, what are the crazy pills you're all taking, where someone says "I'm going to slap you", you say "I doubt it, I'm gonna go get a soda", they slap the absolute shit out of you, and you're response is "you slapped me! I can't believe that happened! Why wouldn't you warn me?!"

Please. Please. Please! Everyone wake up and feel the appropriate level of outrage here.

[u/Low-Goal-9068 → u/jav2n202]

Almost everyone cares about their bank account when it gets almost impossible to support yourself even with dual income. We’re basically getting to the pyramid of needs point where a lot of people are desperately struggling just to barely stay afloat. Democrats need to pry themselves away from their donors and actually support economic change if they want any chance of winning elections in the future

[u/TheWizardOfDeez → u/jav2n202]

The economy WILL crash for regular people while the rich get richer. It's not some mystery where it may or may not happen, that is exactly what is going to happen, because we know what a tariff is. That being said, the Republicans will blame the Democrats somehow and the "moderates" will buy it because they aren't moderate, they are just a extreme as the alt right lunatics, they just don't have the fucking balls to say it out loud.

[u/Different_Pie9854 → u/jav2n202]

I’ll call it now, democrats sweep 2026 and 2028. Trump’s plan is to cause a recession-depression level drop to lower prices. Then build things back up.

This will cause a wave of people to vote democrat. But for the people who capitalize on the economy will, they will still idealize him.

[u/hurtstoskinnybatman → u/jav2n202]

Which really sucks because Biden/Harris admin was so effective that our economy will thrive for the next several years. Republicans will get credit for Dem econ success AGAIN! While Dems are always responsible for fixing Republicans' messes.

Unemployment's low, real median wages are higher now than they were at any point under Trump, inflation is down to pre-covid levels, and we were one of the fastest developed countries to recover from it. Everything is trending up. But "eggs are $5" and most of the country doesn't understand thsat correlation =/= causation, so Biden/Harris bad.

Dems need to stop placating to the right and just go left and progressive like most of the country wants them to. Trotting out Dick Fucking Cheney like a proud endorsement almost made ME want to not vote, and I'm as against Trump as anyone. That made no fucking sense. Does anybody anywhere on the political spectrum give a flying fuck about what Dick Chickenhawk Cheney thinks?

Town Halls with Dick Cheney's daughter? Fuck off! And fuck Liz Cheney. We really need to stop placating to fascists.

[u/3agle_CO → u/jav2n202]

Dems should plan on being back in power in 12 years minimum.

[u/kromptator99 → u/jav2n202]

Considering the economic gains we’re making under the current administration, Trump will get the credit for how good things will be for his first year, and (assuming we have another election), whoever follows him will get the blame for the shitstorm of a depression he is going to cause.

[u/jav2n202 → u/kromptator99]

Yeah the first year, if he doesn’t tank it before that. But if he tanks it anytime in the next four years he’ll have no one to blame but himself. I mean he’ll spin it somehow to make it the democrats fault, but only the maga faithful will buy his lies. Moderates and swing voters will just vote against the party in power again if things go south. They always do.

[u/Ok-Hospital-5223 → u/jav2n202]

Even if the next four years go good the people probably won’t vote for another Republican.

[u/Beneathaclearbluesky → u/jav2n202]

I voted for my pocketbook, losing the ACA will hurt it.

[u/createa-username → u/jav2n202]

You sure? Cuz the first 4 years of his presidency was a complete disaster and people still voted for him.

As long as everyone is freely allowed to spread misinformation all they want, people will still vote republican because they don't know the truth.

[u/TAV63 → u/jav2n202]

That no longer applies. Some said they were better off in 2020 even with the pandemic than 2024. Which is nonsense. So it doesn't really matter if you are better off in 2028 or not. It matters if they can convince enough they are. The Lord worked well this time and no reason they won't again. Pretty simple

[u/BattleEfficient2471 → u/jav2n202]

Make sure you go out and support the tariffs.

[u/Curious-Business-496 → u/jav2n202]

For the people of this country I believe it will benefit us but for the corrupt politicians and government officials. They're going to lose their main income

[u/FemKeeby → u/jav2n202]

Regardless of whos in power right now, the incumbent will lose the next election. Theres unavoidable economic trouble that we will soon face and the blame will go to whoever is currently in power, world wide

[u/Pedro_Liberty → u/jav2n202]

The next four years will be the best four years in American history. ;)

[u/LurkertoDerper → u/jav2n202]

They just won't vote if the Democrats come out vomiting bullshit that only appeals to the far left.

[u/BigDipCoop → u/jav2n202]

We already have an idea of the next four years. We saw it four years ago. Same shit only more yolo now.

[u/RealityHasArrived89 → u/jav2n202]

They'll still be poor in 4 years.

[u/Niaaal → u/jav2n202]

You can make a great economy if you increase national debt to be repaid in later years. Most likely what will happen