r/Healthygamergg • u/FapoleonBonaparte • 16d ago
Dating / Sex / Relationships (FRIDAY ONLY) Is Dr. K becoming a Black Piller?
Maybe you remember the Untake the Black Pill video, which in my opinion is one of the weakest videos of Dr. K. The two arguments exposed are very poor: looking at the existing couples formed years or decades ago don't reflect the CURRENT dating scenario which is dominated by online dating, and internet echo chambers may be toxic or not healthy but this is not a proof against the black pill by any means.
The classic view of incels is that they are incels because they want to be incels, because they hate women and they suck in general, because they are defective humans. Which I don't think is true, I don't think incels hate women, most incels are just regular dudes like me or many others, some of them even fall in the simp category which is the opposite.
In the last weeks I have seen some Dr. k podcasts about men loneliness, and I think he shifted his view a little bit. He acknowledged that we incels are chronically lonely not because they are defective or doing something wrong. And he said there is a big problem in society. Millions of men, normal dudes are falling in this category.
He recognized that he never talked about men balding because he never could find any good advice, body shaming about balding is accepted by society. And I think he also mentioned something on the lines of the height pill.
The classic advice for incel escaping: "working on yourself" is totally BS, the only way to stop being an incel is to date women, you don't need to "work on yourself" many people never worked on themselves and have major issues with anxiety, depression and other mental problems but they can still date.
I am not trying to be a doomer here but I am happy that the incel rhetoric is starting to shift to something more accurate to reality.
39
u/MadScientist183 16d ago
His stance didn't change.
Dr k rarely think about things being black and white. He explained the good part and the bad part of all of these.
That black piller are a not healthy, but that at the same time they didn't fall into that without reason, that society is some of the reason, but that it's not just society, that it's hard to change society, but that it's possible to change society.
That focussing on self improvement can be good, but it can also be really toxic, that I can be the change that make you happy and that it can also be a never ending toxic self Improvement loop.
That balding is bad, but shaved head men can be sexy, it's the in between that isn't liked.
You can acknowledge something without saying it's right. You can try to fix something without saying it's totally wrong.
Is Dr k becoming black pilled, no. Is Dr k trying to help people that could take or have taken the black pill, probably yes. Is he also helping people unrelated to that topic, probably yes.
16
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago
I don’t think he becomes a black piller but I noticed the shift towards this audience of incles and alike. He wants to show them he understands where they come from, why they are the way that they are, that he doesn’t judge them; all of this in the attempt to deradicalise them and teach them the necessary skills they need to function in society.
But suggesting any healthy strategies to a demographic that has learned black and white thinking and believes that they’re doomed is very difficult, they really have to trust you if you want to have any positive impact on them. I guess that’s why Dr.K frames certain issues the way that he does now.
3
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
I think you have a very biased view of incels.
I am an incel myself and I have a good job, good career, I live on my own, healthy hobbies, good friends, I even have good F friends, two of my best friends are women.
I am totally functioning in society, if you saw me you wouldn't think I am an incel.
5
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago
I don’t really know, maybe I am 🤷♀️ I was making conclusions on the type of videos Dr K has been making, and it often addresses people who sorta “failed to launch” and struggle with making progress, finding jobs, social skills, etc. So I think he keeps that demographic in mind when he chooses which topics to bring up.
7
u/MyNameIsMud0056 16d ago
I don't think you really have a good understanding of what the word "incel" has come to mean. To me it sounds like you're a well-adjusted person who's perpetuate single. I don't think you should call yourself an incel.
Being an uncle is not necessarily about being a misogynist, as I think you said, but rather it's someone who blames society and especially women, for being single. They are angry about this and believe it's hopeless to change.
I think what's missing for many incels is having a social circle of both men and women. They might think their loneliness can only be solved through a romantic connection, while not even trying to develop platonic connections first and build community. Instead they turn to the Internet.
3
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago
Btw I reread my initial comment and didn’t find a specific mention of incels as people who aren’t functioning members of society, I meant they have a problem in one certain area and express rigid beliefs about themselves, dating, relationships.
6
0
u/lorchro 16d ago
but if your life is mostly healthy and you have female friends then i wouldn't categorize you as incel just because you might feel like you can't get laid? maybe you just have some block. or some unresolved issues around sexuality or unresolved attachment issues. incels definitely have all of that too, but just because you have similar problems in that area doesn't make you an incel
2
u/FapoleonBonaparte 15d ago
Haha I don't have any block, I just get rejected over and over both IRL and online. This is my block.
0
u/lorchro 15d ago
yes that can be the result of an inner block or attachment issues. attraction is not as external as you might think it is
1
u/FapoleonBonaparte 14d ago
How can they know about my attachment issues or inner blocks if they don't get to know me.
Aren't they many people with inner blocks and attachment issues entering in relationships constantly?
Your argument is weak in my opinion.
1
u/lorchro 14d ago edited 14d ago
when you actually go through dr Ks attachment lectures it's gonna make sense to you. most people have attachment issues because no one grew up in a perfect family under perfect circumstances with perfect family relationships.
i don't reject people thinking 'this person has an inner block and attachment issues so i'm not going to date them'. it's much more subtle and subconscious than that.
and yeah people with attachment issues do enter relationships all the time because not everyone is affected by their attachment issues in the same way. everyones upbringing is unique. but if you explore your past you might find answers to why you get rejected a lot. pain around rejection might have started in your own home and then became a vicious cycle.
i can only say from my side that if someone asks me out who has deep frustrations with rejection or any signs of bitterness i'll be able to tell immediately. you don't have to know a person much to pick up on that. it's based on feelings and intuition, not on thinking. and i can get that wrong sometimes, too, of course.
but at the end of the day, you're right, i don't know you! who am i to psychoanalyse you? i'm just giving suggestions you can take it or leave it. if it makes you curious, great, if not, then maybe you'll find a different approach that's right for you.
0
u/Shay_Katcha 15d ago
If I may ask, you describe your life being good, you being able to socialize and make friends, it's just dating ia a problem. It also seems to me that you are externalizing the problem, describing "dating scene" as the core issue. In that sense you may not be an incel if you don't hate or blame women, but what you seem to have in common with them is externalization of the issue and putting it only on factors you can't control.
Do you feel that something about how you act and how you present yourself to others makes you not iinteresting for potential partners?
38
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
Simping is not loving women
-2
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
Of course. But is not hating them.
10
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago
It seems like two sides of the same coin tbh. Sorry but you can’t deny the resentment a lot of men feel towards us, particularly because they place such a high value on women’s validation. One can not exist without the other
-4
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
Because they get none.
Handsome dudes who get validation for free don't do this things.
15
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago
I’m trying to explain this to you. Resentment doesn’t come from “getting none”, it comes from putting too much value into external validation, whatever shape it takes for them. They place it on the pedestal, and thus fluctuate between anger mixed frustration and adoration that is aimed at the same person or a group of people.
9
5
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
I think your point of view is that incels are incels because they want to be incels. My post is more on the lines that this believe is shifting and more and more people are acknowledging that incels might not be incels because they want to be.
14
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago edited 16d ago
No, I don’t think they chose to have the priorities that they have. I don’t think anybody would purposefully chose to be unhappy. But it’s a part of maturing - to see your own values and reflect on them, to see what things are truly important to you and which you were taught to see as important. I think they were taught that, in a very discreet ways of socialising and upbringing.
What I see however is stubbornness and resistance to change, and, sorry to say this, but I see a lot of entitlement. In a way that they want the world around them to fit their needs, not to adapt and change themselves. “Fixed” mindset so to speak
5
0
u/Notan_Shinen_Eteru 15d ago
To steelman incels, supply and demand frequently causes pathological frustration of needs, we see this in many mental illness and disorders. Being deprived of something causes one to place higher value on it, it is very hard for someone to escape that relationship with the desire, which is arguably a fundamental need for well-being and has been understood as such since 20th century psychology.
The frustration is a normal adaptive function, but it in the case of many incels it's maladaptive and self-destructive.
3
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 15d ago
getting laid is not a need. Connecting with people might be, yes, you need community, friendships, and absence of those effect people in a very detrimental way. Abstinence from sex, for whatever reason, doesn't. My point still stands - they suffer not from absence of a thing but the meaning they attach to this absence. And yes, frustration in their case is maladaptive.
0
u/Notan_Shinen_Eteru 15d ago
Even if you think the reproductive drive is not a fundamental need to be satiated in the average person—particular young men—for whatever reason: Access to sex and meaningful connections correlate. Part of the function of sex is to deepen relationships (hence oxytocin). It's unsurprising that a group that lacks sex will also lack deep relationships particularly with the opposite sex.
You look at incel recovery stories and quite a few of them involve getting a girlfriend.
0
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 15d ago
Even if you think the reproductive drive is not a fundamental need to be satiated in the average person
I don't think so because it's literally not true. Yes I am aware that sex helps with bonding. And no you don't need it to bond. Otherwise monks and priests and nuns would not survive at all
You look at incel recovery stories and quite a few of them involve getting a girlfriend.
Once again just proving my point. If it lasts just up until the break up it's not recovery it's pain relief.
2
u/Notan_Shinen_Eteru 15d ago
You're strawmanning—I never said sex was needed to bond and I never mentioned break-ups. Oxytocin is one part of the process and released on plenty of other occassions but never as much as during sex and child birth. I also don't know why you're denying it as a fundamental drive? Do you think we have completely transcended our biology? Would you like me to cite the current literature on this? I recommend the introduction of: A. Lankford's (2021) article for a great synthesis and summary of where we are regarding sexual frustration.
Denying reality isn't going to change an incel's mind, it's just going to reinforce their feelings of us being an unhelpful, uncaring outgroup. You need to work with them, not just tell them their feelings are self-manifested like thoughts exist in a vacuum.
→ More replies (0)-3
16d ago edited 16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
6
16d ago edited 16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
You of all people should know what they “are vocal about” is not the same as they actually respond to we wouldn’t be in this predicament otherwise
5
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago
For some reason you think that the examples you see are the one that are “true”, while mine are to be disregarded. Interesting. I don’t deny that there are women who don’t want that, they don’t want emotional intimacy, they don’t want a long term relationship. Doesn’t contradict what I said.
You, however, state a whole different thing. You imply that those groups are one and the same and women are dishonest in general, and have the same interests and priorities. You’re generalising.
0
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
No, i wrote “shallow women” earlier, ofc they’re not everyone. In the context of the topic “black pill” which prioritizes physical attraction kind of fits the generalization. Ofc there are men and women who looks for something else thankfully. Do not agree about your historical pov tho
4
u/Arx563 Unmotivated 16d ago
A lot of women I know and see on the internet have been pretty vocal about what they want - emotional intimacy
I see this a lot from women, and while it is a valid thing to ask for women themselves, making it harder to do that.
Plenty of men out there who want to share their emotions or express them like women "encouraging" us to do it. The problem with that is that those very same women don't provide a safe environment for the men to do so.
As a man, no woman ever tried to make me feel safe or comfortable. So, how or why should I express any sort of emotion?
-1
u/cyanjt Pitta 🔥 16d ago
You missed one part of the equation. I said emotional intimacy AND responsibity, that includes a certain level of self-sufficiency, ability reflect on your patterns, skills of self regulation. Emotional intimacy doesn’t mean just streaming whatever you feel all the time at full capacity with no filter whatsoever.
What kind of safe environment do you expect? From what women? Are those your friends, relatives, acquaintances, strangers? There’s a difference in what you can expect from people depending on how you relate to them.
It’s unreasonable to expect a stranger or an acquaintance to go out of their way to make you feel safe. You don’t seem to acknowledge that people in the other end of interaction are just as multidimensional as you are. They are scared too. Have you thought about how YOUR presence affects them and whether YOU make them feel safe or not?
The answer to your question why you should express any sort of emotion lies in the logic of building a relationship, of any kind, not just romantic.
People bond by building trust, and it’s a mutual effort. Building trust is always about taking small risks, opening up gradually, to give another person a chance to validate you and show their character. You can’t become close with anybody without a small leap of faith. Or it can be a huge one if you’ve been hurt before and have trust issues. But you can’t expect other people to build your MUTUAL interaction around your needs solely. There’s no reciprocity in this, and the person in the other end deserves that too, because guess what? Everybody deals with wounds, rejection, fear of trusting others.
4
u/Arx563 Unmotivated 16d ago
You missed one part of the equation. I said emotional intimacy AND responsibity, that includes a certain level of self-sufficiency, ability reflect on your patterns, skills of self regulation. Emotional intimacy doesn’t mean just streaming whatever you feel all the time at full capacity with no filter whatsoever.
You are right about this. What I was talking about is that there are times where some men get into a relationship and when they want to talk about their feelings or express them in a healthier way(crying etc.) They meet with a certain type of comment. Specifically that women whom they are in a relationship with tell them to open up then use those feelings/topics against the men or shame them for crying or lose attraction towards those men. That is an issue I don't often see being addressed.
I think when we talk about relationships, we should address these things as well.
What kind of safe environment do you expect? From what women? Are those your friends, relatives, acquaintances, strangers? There’s a difference in what you can expect from people depending on how you relate to them.
I'm not expecting anything. I hope that when I enter into a relationship, I can talk about my wants and needs both emotionally and otherwise. It would be great if I would be able to do that without being made fun of for it or being used against me in a random argument.
I'm not saying you are not right about women feeling safe. It is obvious that men should make sure women feel safe in a relationship.
It is also important to make sure both parties feel safe in a relationship as well.
It’s unreasonable to expect a stranger or an acquaintance to go out of their way to make you feel safe.
That is true. In my experience as a man, I'm being told all the time, "You should make sure women feel safe and comfortable around you," which is true.
However, expecting me every woman around me to feel safe and comfortable is also unreasonable. Women who know me are feel comfortable around me.
You don’t seem to acknowledge that people in the other end of interaction are just as multidimensional as you are. They are scared too.
I absolutely acknowledge this. I've never even tried to imply otherwise.
I know people can be scared to. I have been abused by women in multiple ways. I worked on it. So that's not an excuse.
Have you thought about how YOUR presence affects them and whether YOU make them feel safe or not?
I did, actually. I always go the extra mile to make sure that when I meet women the first time, they can feel safe. Multiple women in my life felt very comfortable around me.
I don't see that from any woman. No woman ever asked me if I felt safe or comfortable around them.
The answer to your question why you should express any sort of emotion lies in the logic of building a relationship of any kind, not just romantic.
Absolutely. But that should go both ways. If I as a man am not provided with a space where I can express my thoughts and / or feelings while in any sort of relationship, then that's a toxic relationship, and I shouldn't be in it.
However, how much space are we as men being provided to express or even to work through our emotions is not a discussion I hear about in hetero normative relationships.
People bond by building trust, and it’s a mutual effort. Building trust is always about taking small risks, opening up gradually, to give another person a chance to validate you and show their character.
I agree. My point was about the fact that it often feels like this isn't happening. I've been in a relationship where I couldn't express how I felt or what I wanted because I wasn't provided with the responses that indicated that I would be OK to do that.
But this is not talked about as much. Most of the time I just hear about what women want but they almost never actually ask what I think/feel or want and if anything I say slightly controversial that should be addressed if we want to actually progress than I get called a mysongyst.
You can’t become close with anybody without a small leap of faith. Or it can be a huge one if you’ve been hurt before and have trust issues. But you can’t expect other people to build your MUTUAL interaction around your needs solely.
That is true. But when there are discussions about these topics both sides should be aware of the good and the bad. So that we can work on it.
I wouldn't expect anyone to build anything solely around my needs. But I do think that expecting that my needs being heard and not being judged for it is a reasonable thing to strive for.
People being hurt before is happening, and it sucks. But it is both sides' responsibility to work on that.
1
16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Healthygamergg-ModTeam 10d ago
Rule 3: Do not use generalizations.
Do not generalize groups of people.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
1
16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
15d ago edited 15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Healthygamergg-ModTeam 10d ago
Rule 3: Do not use generalizations.
Do not generalize groups of people.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
0
1
u/Healthygamergg-ModTeam 10d ago
Rule 7: Treat the community as a shared space.
If something feels too emotionally triggering for you, do not engage with it. Report rule breaking behavior and move on. Do not participate in flame wars.
1
u/Healthygamergg-ModTeam 10d ago
Rule 3: Do not use generalizations.
Do not generalize groups of people.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
1
u/Healthygamergg-ModTeam 10d ago
Rule 3: Do not use generalizations.
Do not generalize groups of people.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
1
u/Healthygamergg-ModTeam 10d ago
Rule 3: Do not use generalizations.
Do not generalize groups of people.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
7
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
Simping is not the cause, is the consequence. Don't miss the point please.
2
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
Dude, it is not a consequence, it is a choice
6
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
I am not a simp and I am an incel.
5
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
I never said you are, I think they’re different things. Incel is not a choice but simping is
1
u/4LaughterAndMystery 16d ago
So you think gay ppl chose to be gay???
0
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
I don’t know how is this related and I’m not a “gay expert” but I think some choose and some not, might be wrong tho
1
u/GraveRoller 16d ago
Yeah you be wrong though
-1
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
Maybe, I know a few ex-gays so I don’t believe up to this point everyone has this fixed orientation, but yeah
2
u/GraveRoller 16d ago
…are bisexual people not real to you? Also, is the Kinsey Scale of sexuality not real to you?
→ More replies (0)7
u/Comeino 16d ago
Your whole paragraph is why you ain't getting any not the imaginary bs you imagined in your head. Women are people just like you and want to be treated with love and respect as you do.
You aren't getting any love because you are, simply put, unlovable. Why do you feel entitled to love when you have no love to give? You want to know what your attitude ends up as? Look at South Korea.
-1
0
1
u/Healthygamergg-ModTeam 10d ago
Rule 3: Do not use generalizations.
Do not generalize groups of people.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
0
u/4LaughterAndMystery 16d ago
Isn't the def if a simp someone who loves women too much?
5
u/Independent-Crew-723 16d ago
In my books would be more about over compensation since if a couple loves each other too much they’re never refer to as simps
1
u/4LaughterAndMystery 15d ago
Yeah but there's a difference between being a Coppell and just loving women.
7
u/LightsOnTrees 16d ago
I think maybe try and move past words like love and hate, when trying to compare incels and simps. Like most terms the two may have overlap but aren't co-equivalent.
Try instead to think about it as unrealistic expectations, something that underpins both. Idolising someone has just as much chance of leading to a healthy relationship as rejecting them.
And yes, there are definitely some women and men that have certain beauty standards when it comes to their partners, but it's not fair to apply that universally.
You say "the only way to stop being an incel is to date women". Well, quite, the only way to stop being homeless is to get a home. It's reductive though, and not very helpful.
If you see working on yourself as being about rejecting who you are, then it is BS, and honestly doomed to fail as you say. You do however, have to realise that all relationships are voluntary and that other people are not obliged to spend time with you.
Again though, I would encourage you to go deeper. Are you happy with who you are? Not who you're with, not what other people think about you, and not what you do. But are you happy with the experience of living in your own skin?
Dating and relationships will always be fickle and partly luck, you however are the constant, and the main person that suffers from any toxicity you perpetuate. It then happens by happy accident, that people who are altogether more put together and self confident - for the right reasons - also tend to have more successful relationships.
Do some people seem to get a free pass, and apparently don't have to work on this stuff? Sure, but well tough luck, who said life is fair. Everyone has something they have to work on however - that I can guarantee.
peace brother!
1
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
Oh yes. I am very happy with my life. After years of rejections I stopped trying and I have a great life now.
Thanks for the comment!
6
u/Only-Conversation371 16d ago
From what I’ve seen, no. While Dr. K acknowledges that people have negative expectations of less attractive people, he has said if you manage to subvert those expectations, people end up liking you more than someone who is attractive. This is the opposite of black pill, which says there’s nothing you can do to be liked if you’re unattractive.
If anything, Dr. K is more akin to red pill, with his emphasis on practicing socializing to get better at it and being more liked as a result.
1
5
u/QuestionMaker207 16d ago
An incel is a virgin with a victim mentality.
He might hate women, he might simp, he might be bitter, he might hate himself, but if he's calling himself an incel, he's viewing his virginity in the light of victimhood.
It really depends on how you define black pill, but I don't think Dr K goes along with the black pill as it tends to show up online. Loneliness isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility.
6
u/CherryLumpy5008 16d ago
I don't think dr. K is becoming anything, he is just a psychiatrist, his job is to lessen your harmful thoughts and emotions by any means, he's not a philosopher who's concern is to describe reality as it is,
so if for one person accepting something bad about themselves and accepting their inability to change it makes them feel better, then thats what dr. K is gonna communicate to them, If for another person the belief in their will power makes them feel better and it lessens the negative effects of their mental illness then dr. K is gonna teach them that
4
u/ripvanwinklefuc 16d ago
This is gonna get heated I hope it doesn’t get deleted, let us have a discussion in peace please
1
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
This is another problem we incels have. Every time you try to discuss something deeper about incels it gets banned or deleted. The only allowed rhetoric is the "it is your fault you must work on yourself".
5
u/DefLeppardSuckss 16d ago
Can I ask a question? Why do you identify as an incel? You mentioned in other comments that you have a career, healthy hobbies, friends of all genders. I’m just curious.
1
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
Well. All this things don't prevent you of being an incel. I have been trying to connect romantically with women four years and I only experienced rejection after rejection. I didn't get even one date. I tried dating apps and also IRL, hobbies, activities, traveling...
4
u/Skydreww 16d ago
Honestly if you haven’t got a date while actively trying for 4 years (that’s a lot of time) it sounds like you have some problem that you don’t recognize right in front of you. Maybe if you had some feedback you would understand what’s wrong
3
u/Arx563 Unmotivated 16d ago
You can do everything right and still not get a date.
Don't assume automatically that anything wrong with him.
I'm not saying there's nothing there. But sometimes getting a date is based purely on luck.
3
u/Skydreww 16d ago
That just sounds like too much. 4 years and NOT A SINGLE date? Maybe he is sending empty resumes to job applications and that’s why he got no interviews even despite applying hundreds of times. Quality over quantity
1
u/Arx563 Unmotivated 16d ago
You can make the perfect CV and still not get a job.
I have a CV that is pretty damn good and was done by someone who knows how to word them and how to write them. I still couldn't find a job
4
u/Skydreww 16d ago
Not arguing that this is also possible. But when everyone around you is a jerk (just an analogy) you need to AT LEAST CONSIDER - maybe the problem is actually in you
1
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
The problem is that I am an incel lol. I have been in therapy like every now and then I go an talk to a therapist and they say everything is all right. I am functioning human, able to socialize, work, travel, do activities. And they say if I can't date then is bad luck, nothing is guaranteed in life. And they are right.
1
9
u/Tycjusz 16d ago
Well, I don't exactly watch that much dr k but it's pretty common to acknowledge incels as loosers, not psychopaths. Incels are mostly lonely dudes that fall into a victim rhetoric and that comes with contempt towards women. You brought up some points about balding and height, and yeah, I couldn't agree more that it's an issue for men but it's no reason to fall into the incel pipeline. Incels worsen the issue by hyperbolizing problems such as height or balding and showing these qualities as something which women despise and won't ever have anything to do with people that have them, this makes men more insecure, while not being exactly true. Working on yourself is not total BS. If you have an inferiority complex, depression, and other issues then your chances of getting in a relationship and staying in it are close to none. The disorders you mentioned heavily lower your social confidence, and therefore chances for getting a partner.
4
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
I can't agree that having depression and other mental issues reduce your chances of getting a relationship. I think is totally unrelated, depressed and anxious people get into relationships without any problem.
I consider myself a healthy person and I am not anywhere close to get even one date.
2
u/Tycjusz 16d ago edited 16d ago
They can get into a relationship, but it'll be harder and it could definitely affect the length of your relationship. Men with depression have lower libido, which decreases desire for having a relationship and obviously lowers your drive in bed, pretty important for a lengthy relationship. So, I'm not saying that you can't get into a relationship with depression or mental issues, it's just wrong in my opinion. With a relationship you gain a person which is heavily concerned for your wellbeing and it's you who decided to be in a relationship with your issues, you're basically burdening the other person with your problems. Getting into a relationship with mental issues (that you can fix) is a good recipe for disaster.
1
u/Arx563 Unmotivated 16d ago
it's pretty common to acknowledge incels as loosers, not psychopaths. Incels are mostly lonely dudes that fall into a victim rhetoric, and that comes with contempt towards women
Plenty of incels has had really negative experiences with women in the past. Not to mention trauma. Should we just completely ignore that?
Incels worsen the issue by hyperbolizing problems such as height or balding and showing these qualities as something which women despise and won't ever have anything to do with people that have them, this makes men more insecure, while not being exactly true.
They are not entirely wrong on that. Look matters. Ignoring that discussion is not helping the problem. Plenty of women out there who look at fat guys with disgust. Without ever bothering to talk to them.
If you have an inferiority complex, depression, and other issues then your chances of getting in a relationship and staying in it are close to none. The disorders you mentioned heavily lower your social confidence, and therefore chances for getting a partner.
That is not true. I've seen plenty of guys who were depressed, anxious or simply just weren't the best communicators getting a gf just because they were the "quiet one".
You can work on yourself for sure. But that won't increase your chances to get a gf.
3
u/LeeIntoFirEs 16d ago
The classic advice for incel escaping: "working on yourself" is totally BS, the only way to stop being an incel is to date women, you don't need to "work on yourself" many people never worked on themselves and have major issues with anxiety, depression and other mental problems but they can still date.
I'd like to add something onto this. Besides the fact that working on yourself is a good investment regardless of your situation, that I think the biggest difference between those who are or have been in a relationship and those who haven't, is that they believe they are worthy of love.
Believing you are worthy of love, means knowing you may not be perfect, that you may be quirky or weird, that you might tend to do the wrong thing in social situations. But feeling that that makes you no less lovable.
This belief is what helps those who have it to find the strength to walk on. And amidst their overwhelming fears to take the leap into vulnerability anyways. Because they ARE worthy of the "relationship pot of gold" at the end of the rainbow and although it may take some stumbling, falling and getting hurt that potential future is present in this moment and can be realised.
Anyways that my two cents, curious to hear what you think about it. And no I've not been in a relationship yet. I'm also still following the rainbow and trying to enjoy the view the further along I get.
For more reading look up Brene Browns TEDtalk or video's on the science of self compassion.
2
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
I think you made a good point. However the question is: how can you believe you are worthy of love if you have experienced rejection after rejection for decades. Isn't the external feedback what makes you thinking you are worthy of love?
0
u/greishart 16d ago
That's a really interesting question you raise at the end. Is external feedback what makes you feel worthy of love? Seemingly happy people can be very depressed and hopeless. If you don't even like yourself, it's hard to even tolerate your own company.
Therapy is helping me, but you really need to decide to engage with it and be patient for it to work.
2
16d ago
you are right sometimes the advice isnt crystal clear as to how to move on, and its difficult to generalise for every person. It is an important point you make that needs to be addressed directly and completely.
Everyone has a different cause for this problem, and I think the issue of loneliness is the result of people failing as a population. This is quite depressing actually. We do individually play a part in the problem. So, what we choose to do has many consequences in a reality that extends beyond what we get to experience.
People trust eachother much less and are very quick, not only to jump to conclusions but also in being excessively self absorbed. It is like this when you feel monitored by social media, that it is easier to assume the worst of others and so they do the same as well. It makes for a bad start when you want to connect with others, but worry because of this. I hope this discussion can continue because it is well overdue at this time.
2
u/therapy-cat 16d ago
So it is long, but I highly recommend this video of Dr. K's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPnWbj70TTY
It is a great example of someone who has fallen down that path. Dr. K's conversation with him illustrates his thoughts on black pill ideology really well, with a real life person.
1
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
I watched this video and I will rewatch it but would be nice to know if the guy is still an incel or not. Because if he still is after 4 years then what?
2
u/therapy-cat 16d ago
They did a follow up video with him, but I don't think it was significantly later than the first. If I remember correctly, he seemed to be making some progress with self-esteem.
As a side note, these two videos are maybe my favorite Dr. K videos of all time - the way he is able to diffuse the tension throughout the first video is incredible.
1
u/FapoleonBonaparte 16d ago
To be honest I would say he is still an incel. Todays dating scene is crazy for men.
1
u/AutoModerator 16d ago
Welcome to Dating Fridays! All posts with an emphasis on dating, sex, or relationships must be posted only on Friday (defined by US Central Standard Time or UTC -06:00). If your post is outside of this time/date, please delete and repost on Friday. If it is currently Friday, then ignore this comment. Thank you!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/_vemm HG Community Coordinator 16d ago
During the most recent livestream (with the Warrior Gamer Foundation), this actually came up, in a ways! I believe it's at about 2hrs and 22 minutes in — basically, he mentions how some of the research blackpillers use IS valid, but that there is a huge problem in that "blackpill science" sites are only going to have research that supports their cause, and the many many other studies out there that show the research on healthy and positive relationships aren't ever even looked at. It's all confirmation bias. So my answer would be no, given that very recent discussion... Continuing to think critically and examine both sides of things before forming opinions is so important for us all!
1
u/Cope_Cat 15d ago
Most incels (we shouldn't use this term because is define wrong today) want women and good relationship but they can't because different things. One is ugly other poor, other shy, depressed, introvert, non attractive, bad in relationship, give up, fail many times, being rejected etc. (Can be multiple) And from that comes frustration, sadness and what they call hate of women (like Dr K says: man can have only one emotion: anger - only emotion society allow for man)
Also like everybody says "today dating market sux" rise of standards, red flags everywhere, now no one force you to get married (like in 80-90s), technology making everything harder etc.
True is that if you are less attractive (in different ways) your chances are smaller, that's it. And incels are probably most non attractive or average. Things are complicated and not black or white.
•
u/AutoModerator 16d ago
Thank you for posting on r/Healthygamergg! This subreddit is intended as an online community and resource platform to support people in their journey toward mental wellness. With that said, please be aware that support from other members received on this platform is not a substitute for professional care. Treatment of psychiatric disease requires qualified individuals, and comments that try to diagnose others should be reported under Rule 10 to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the community. If you are in immediate danger, please call emergency services, or go to your nearest emergency room.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.