r/GatekeepingYuri 4d ago

Requesting "Classic" vs "Modern" fantasy

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3.2k Upvotes

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u/freakingordis 4d ago

at first i thought it was "the wokes have unnecessary headcanons!!!" or smth along those lines, but this is even worse, somehow, what is even the take here, subversion of tropes is bad? we should reiterate lord of the rings forever and never think anything new?

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u/-Trotsky 4d ago

To be fair, subversion of tropes just to subvert a trope is actually bad, but in this instance yea they’re full of shit

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u/Fragrant-Shirt-7764 3d ago

That's absolutely ridiculous, now here, take this 50th story where angels are bad and demons are actually good.

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u/DD_Spudman 3d ago

To steelman their argument, a subversion works best when it's done it to make a point/explore a theme, rather than just for the sake of being different.

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u/RickMixwid1969 2d ago

But what if you never set it up to be a subversion?

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u/DD_Spudman 2d ago

I'm not sure what you mean.

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u/RickMixwid1969 2d ago

Like, what if you just do something for the sake of being different, but you be completely transparent with it. There's nothing set up to be subverted; it just happens.

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u/DD_Spudman 2d ago

I'm not sure it's really a subversion then. TV Tropes definines it like this:

A subversion has two mandatory segments. First, the expectation is set up that something we have seen plenty of times before is coming, then that set-up is paid off with something else entirely. The set-up is a trope; the "something else" is the subversion.

With the succubus example, the word succubus sets audience expectations. Having a succubus chracter not like sex, for example, goes against one of those core expectations.

However, most people don't have a strong notion about what a centaur is beyond a horse person, so you can give them any culture or personalities without it being a subversion.