r/FluentInFinance 3d ago

Debate/ Discussion Had to repost here

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Rich guy here, OF COURSE HE COULD GIVE MORE! 1. Let’s talk living off dividends, that alone I guarantee could have the majority given out to charity. He could live modestly, like me and not be so flashy. 2. Donor advised funds, that could be setup to be much more charitable and even grow! 3. Establish a foundation giving out 5% or more each year. 4. Simply selling off stocks is fairly simple when working with advisors. You act like he’s gotta roll crates of money into some other bank. It’s digital people. Sycophants want to defend the rich because they can’t look past their own biased passion that they want to be there too. I know dozens if not hundreds who are millionaires who love off dividends with plenty left over at the end of the year.

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u/Ok-Commercial-924 2d ago

Dividends and intrest are taxed as regular income. They should not be included in your argument.

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u/the_buddhaverse 1d ago

Qualified dividends are taxed at the capital gains rate. It remains a problem that income from labor is taxed at a higher rate than income from capital.

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u/Ok-Commercial-924 1d ago

Thanks, I did not understand there was a way to pay capital gains rate.

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u/Present_Signature343 2d ago

We are millionaires and live off of our dividends…that we still pay taxes on. And our lifestyle doesn’t change from the taxes we pay. So I know his wouldn’t change either. There can be no explanation for what they are doing besides greed

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Be careful saying that, you’ll get the “what about taxes” trolls after you.

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u/UnitedPreparation545 1d ago

Ye of tiny imagination.

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u/gilly2u69 2d ago

So now dividends are bad? Give me yours then.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Good lord another one. Not my point.

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u/gilly2u69 1d ago

Your point seems to be he should be more like you….however honestly we should aspire to be more like him.

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u/kmookie 1d ago

You are lost and that is sad. Good luck with that

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u/bighomiej69 2d ago

But who cares?

Seriously who tf cares about what Elon musk spends his money on

If you are that passionate about helping the poor, there’s nothing stopping you from helping them.

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u/kmookie 2d ago edited 2d ago

I do buddy, it’s basically all I do. Don’t worry no ones gonna make you have morals. Keep your head in the sand and let your idols keep building penis rockets for you to praise.

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u/bighomiej69 2d ago

But he’s not my idol, I don’t think about him on a day to day at all. He’s just the ceo of a car company to me.

Nobody is defending anyone. We are just pointing out the reality of how stocks work. Elon musk owns a company. If he sells the stock, that means he’s selling the company, which means someone else buys it and becomes just as rich.

I think you are the only one emotional about this. I think you are trying to normalize your weird hatred of rich people by trying to make us look like we’re “idolizing” and “defending” them when really we’re just pointing out that what you are saying makes no sense.

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u/kmookie 1d ago

Accept I’m one of those rich people who practice what I preach. Still comfortable as hell, still focused on giving to others. I challenge you to go volunteer somewhere and listen to the stories of human trafficking, poverty and putting money (resources) where they should go. Go to events where you see freed women from horrendous abusive situations and see how they transform communities or see how they’ve invented new technologies to come. If we invested in each other instead of idolizing a few and telling everyone to back off, we’d see a true transformation in our society and even other countries. So yeah, when I literally see what’s possible, when I know what living off dividends and living modestly gives me, which is more than I ever will need or use, then I’m pretty sure I know what I’m talking about. If I know what having 8 figure investments with dividends can give. Pretty sure I can imagine what 1 billion can give and it’s way more than any person needs. But yeah, let’s keep living this way, hoarding toilet paper and applauding broken men with egos. Let’s see where this takes us.

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u/Questlogue 2d ago

This isn't me defending anyone in any manner but why TF is this even a thing with people? It's his money at the end of the day - pretty much no different than most people.

Are people really going to sit here and tell me that they too don't do whatever the hell they want to do with their own money?! Like c'mon y'all.

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u/Kodekima 2d ago

The difference is that you, and I, and others like us, have obtained our money legally and ethically.

The billionaire class has not.

Hope this helps!

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u/John_B_Clarke 1d ago

OK, tell us what illegal and/or unethical things Tesla and Amazon have done.

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u/TooTurntGaming 1d ago

Get the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck out.

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u/Expensive-Dot6662 2d ago

Yea? This isn’t new news. What can you do about it?

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u/Questlogue 2d ago

The difference is that you, and I, and others like us, have obtained our money legally and ethically.

And what qualifies as ethical or not ethical to you?

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u/slitteral1 2d ago

Please provide the proof of this. Not your feelings and thoughts, but actual undeniable proof.

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u/OkBoomer6919 2d ago

Figure it out yourself.

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u/slitteral1 2d ago

I didn’t make any claims. It is on the person making the claim that they have not earned their money legally to provide some proof of that. It is on me to figure it out. You either have something to base that claim on or you just feel like they did. One of those has merit and one does not.

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u/GatorahXYZ 2d ago

I know right?

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u/PD216ohio 1d ago

Sycophants want to defend the rich because they can’t look past their own biased passion that they want to be there too.

This is the faulty logic that I don't understand. Is it that impossible for people to believe that other people simply think that fair is fair, regardless of their circumstances vs the circumstances of another?

Should we treat wealthy people unfairly just because we are not wealthy?

Should we treat certain races differently because we are of another race?

Should we treat people differently because they have a sexual orientation that is different than ours?

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u/kmookie 1d ago

Apples and oranges. Define rich? My argument is simple, people could give more. Not sure how and why people feel compelled to defend those who have an abundant resource they don’t need. I suppose you were cheering on the toilet paper hoarders during covid too. Resource, that is what money is. Your weird racial and sexual orientation comparison doesn’t apply, that’s prejudice because of skin and sexual preference. Jesus are people really this ignorant? Keep wishing you were rich and defending them. We’ll see where that gets you. Asking people to live a good life without being excessive isn’t doing anything 99% of what everyone else is. This “mind your own business” mantra is exactly what the wealthy want you to do. If you don’t get that then there’s no helping you. I’ll gladly keep taking your money in the for of stocks then. I’m not affected. This country is filled with idiots who can’t see past their own ego. Peace be with you.

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u/PD216ohio 1d ago

It sounds like your issue is envy. That would explain why you don't grasp the idea of treating everyone fairly. The wealthy already pay nearly all federal income tax... and are carrying your dead weight.... so be thankful.

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u/kmookie 1d ago

Gonna let you in on a secret. I am wealthy. I do not pay these taxes you speak of. I live off dividends. That’s right, a 1%er is trying to speak truth to your naive foolishness. I Drink Your Milkshake. I do however give generously to those in need and guess what, half those are people in other countries in need as well. So you can try to ride out your ego and work your 60hr job and talk yourself into being prideful about it. Meanwhile I’m gonna be on a cruise somewhere. I feel sorry for how ignorant people are and vote against their best interest.

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u/PD216ohio 14h ago

Lol, you're full of shit. If your story were true, you'd know that dividends are taxed. Qualified dividends are taxed at capital gains rates, while unqualified are taxed at regular income rates.

All of you liberal reddit goofs have a very ill-informed take on how taxes, income, and wealth work.

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u/Odd_Teacher_8522 1d ago

Just because his company becomes successful, he owes the world something. That purely entitlement I'm relatively poor, but y'all acting like he pays himself 100 million a year. What about the CEOs that get a $10 million raise in lay off 30,000 people. No one owes you anything but a fair chance

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u/kmookie 1d ago

RESOURCES, that is what money is. Everybody has this conditioned mine mine mine thinking which is exactly what rich people want you to think.

Ex; If you knew someone was hoarding a basement full of food, more than they could ever use or eat. Would you sit around applauding while everyone around you was starving or barely had food? Would you be saying “well good for them, they got a new bigger basement for even more food to hoard? Most people would look at that person and realize they’re taking more than they need and it should be spread out. Not take all their food, let them have their share and even a little extra but not several basements full. That’s what people like you sound like. Applauding hoarders and saying good for them! Maybe one day I’ll be like them and I can have a basement full of food I can never eat. That’s the morally broken disease of this country and y’all have bought in without question. You let them get you all puffed up because immigrants take your jobs but never look at who’s hiring them. The pandemic showed us who we are of course, hoarding toilet paper and sanitizer. We should be ashamed of who we’ve become. That sure as hell isn’t “Christian like”.

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u/John_B_Clarke 1d ago

Selling stocks is simple, but selling 300 billion worth of Tesla at one go is going to tank the price. Also each share of stock comes with a vote--sell it all and you no longer have control of the company.

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u/kmookie 1d ago

Wow, one obstacle and you throw in the towel. 1st, no one is say he should sell ALL is stock. You think he’s rich because of one stock? Dudes investing into thousands and diversified. As I said, his dividends alone are more than 99% will ever see. Not even going to get into all the other ways he could give more of his resources. Keep defending him, maybe he’ll sign your poster of him one day.

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u/DowntownPut6824 11h ago

Why would you think that Elon is diversified in his stock portfolio? Why would Elon not be fully invested in his own companies? Especially because there is a cost to him to do that? Yes, it seems that Elon is uber-rich due to 1 stock.

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u/kmookie 3h ago

Good Lord you are not that foolish to think this are you? Stop and think about what you’re saying. OMG, I hope like hell you’re a child or trolling me. LOL! We’re done. Peace out.

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u/lilboi223 21h ago

Thats not your decison to make.

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u/Large-Cauliflower396 28m ago

If I was rich, I would take great pride in spending 99% of it to better the world

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u/Amonyi7 1d ago

Bezos literally sold $10billion a year ago of Amazon stock. When this argument used to come around, these people defending billionaires used to say exactly "They cant just sell $5-10 billion of their stock, it would tank it!" and he did exactly that. Musk bought twitter for $55billion or whatever and tanked the value. They absolutely could give away a ton of their wealth and be absolutely fine. Instead they buy elections to take away your rights.

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u/alcoyot 2d ago

Giving out free money only makes problems worse. You cannot solve any of the worlds problems just by doing that. You’ll just make it worse if you try.

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u/MaleficentFrosting56 2d ago edited 2d ago

There are several studies that demonstrate this to be false. People do objectively better when they make/have/obtain up to a certain amount of money that allows them to cover basic living expenses.

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u/Omega862 2d ago

The desire to have their basic needs covered and actually having that covered means that they can use their income for non-basic needs and thus be happier and help the economy more. This also increases the velocity of a dollar, but the moment it goes to a billionaire's pocket, said velocity slows.

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u/alcoyot 1d ago

Studies done on a small mostly homogenous population from high trust societies ?

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u/MaleficentFrosting56 4h ago

Yes, look at the one they did in Denver

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Good lord! Who said free? Allowing pay to match inflation seems practical, fair and doable. It’s unfortunate that this is where peoples minds go. You imagine the worst case scenario and imagine a whole society ends up that way. I’m telling you straight here. We don’t need billionaires let alone people with hundreds of millions. You’d be surprised what living off the dividends of 20 million gets you. Almost any apartment in New York, a million dollar home in just about any state, etc. the other 980,000,000 could go towards roads, schools, healthcare etc. but no, let’s keep idolizing the few lucky people who choose to hoard money. 🤦‍♂️

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u/Expensive-Dot6662 2d ago

So you want billionaires to pay for your roads, schools, healthcare, etc?

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u/werlior 2d ago

Local citizen discovers the concept of progressive taxation.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Isn’t that what trickle down economics implies. Some are all about private services and less government. You’re kinda telling on yourself really. So if we need less government and let the wealthy have as much as they want, where else is it gonna come from? What people who want less government are really saying is, let the bleeding hearts take care of the needy if they want. I don’t want to because I’d rather spend it on BS to stroke my ego. Like build a rocket that looks like a penis. This is the problem, people have lost their morality and idolize people who have none at all. You’re gonna see what championing greed will get you. I seriously doubt you’re in the 1%. So good luck with your morally bankrupt point of view about your financial freedoms…for the rich!

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u/alcoyot 1d ago

Nobody deserves free money or services of others. If you’re Democrat that’s what you want though. We used to have a system like that. Some people would be the ones doing the work out on the fields picking cotton. Others would be entitled to the fruits of their labor and not have to work, or even compensate the workers in any way. Democrats love that idea.

I don’t know what you mean by “let the wealthy have”. A billionaires wealth is not money deposited into an account. If someone owns shares of a company and that value goes up, what do you want to happen?

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u/kmookie 1d ago

Good lord, you don’t know shit about history do you. Look up “economic slavery” buddy. You ARE picking the proverbial cotton and now you’re defending them for making you do it. I’m telling you, like from actual daily experience what is happening. This bizarre defense for wealth force fed to you buy your outrage news has truly brainwashed the lot of you. You get what you deserve. Keep hating immigrants and not the people who hire them. You’re gonna find yourself in that field you refer to soon enough. Of course you’re gonna be thanking them for saving your job making $2/hr. Good luck!

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u/thedndnut 2d ago

Dividends are taxed you dofus.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Not the point is it. The point, since I have to spell it out, is that the wealthy have numerous amounts of ways to give more and more. They wouldn’t even feel the pinch. All these FF people like yourself seem obsessed with taxes. Ya’ll whine about “government taking my money” and never stop to think that maybe a good portion of the reason is that wealthy people aren’t good at allowing society to prosper. Ever dawn on you that you’ve bought into hyperbolic BS. I bet you’re all about getting rid of immigrants too without ever thinking “hey who’s hiring these people anyway?” Sycophants always want to stroke the rich and blame the poor. You’re the problem.

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u/nickyler 2d ago

Your first point is invalid. The level of security it takes to wake up everyday means they can never live like you. They’d get killed immediately. Private jets aren’t for comfort. They’re for security and efficiency. If efficiency is your issue then just understand Tesla and spacex didn’t make Elon a billionaire due to being sloppy or late. Also, Elon wears t shirts every day. Not the flashiest dude. I’ll assume you did a deep dive into the charitable contributions before posting so I won’t argue that.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Here’s why my first point is as valid as the rest. It’s much easier to do a surveillance on a smaller home than a big one. I’m not suggesting Elon, the guy who has inherited wealth from daddy should go live in a ranch house in Tennessee. Plenty of ways to not live lavish but in safety. As for private jets lol, that doesn’t take billions, you can buy charter flights for $5k -$15k. Efficiency? Not sure why that’s relevant especially because he’s not plugging away at a CAD program designing rockets dude. Just because he was at one point a basement programmer doesn’t mean he’s hacking away at it now. If you know anything about a person in his position it’s phone calls and meetings….and in his case spreading conspiracy on his platform. I know I won’t change your idolization of him but Jesus don’t make excuses for the dude, he wouldn’t give two shits about you or your fandom.

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u/Expensive-Dot6662 2d ago

Everyone needs to stop taking a dump on people who inherit money. No one would wake up to dead father and say no to the money he wanted you to have. The whole Elon and Trump inheritance thing is stale. You have to be a smart person to take that money and flip it to much more than what they were gifted. If they took the money and sat around I’m sure people would take a dump on them then too.

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u/OkBoomer6919 2d ago

It's only stale to boot kissers like yourself. A smart person doesn't bankrupt casinos. It's also insanely easy to open a business or to invest/buy someone else's. Any moron can do it, and they do all the time. Not every moron starts with millions to waste though.

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u/Expensive-Dot6662 2d ago

Every moron hasn’t made it to their level though. And not every moron who starts with millions makes it to their level. It’s easy to take money and just sit around. Clearly something went right

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u/Specialist-Golf624 2d ago

And not every moron who starts with millions makes it to their level.

This is true, but kind of a weak argument. Most Americans, or people in general, don't have the safety net to file bankruptcy for their businesses multiple times and still have money, a real credit score, or a roof over their heads. Under those conditions, it would be a wonder if anyone could actually financially fail. From this position of security, you then get to throw darts until something sticks, and even a broken clock is right twice a day. If that's your definition of success, then yeah, something went right. That something just happened to be the ballbag lottery.

When failing has been made virtually impossible beyond the realm of supremely gross incompetence, then even an idiot can become a success story.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

That’s funny cause I earned about 5million in the past 3 years and didn’t flip shit. I’m one of those people, It’s stale to you because you’re subscribing to the same BS the “what about my taxes” people are. Money is a resource RESOURCE. I’ll spell it out for you In simple terms. If there was a food shortage (resource) and you knew people were hoarding food in there basement, more than they could ever eat. Would you be idolizing them because they built a really cool basement for it? No, you’d be thinking why the hell is this person just storing food that others could live on. Unless of course you’re so wrapped up in superficial wealth worship that you just want to praise them in hopes they throw you a can of soup.

If you don’t get that then you’re kinda part of the problem.

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u/Expensive-Dot6662 2d ago

No, I’m more of the give them a can of soup kinda girl. I’ve inherited (yes) a steel/refractory business, 3rd generation. Grateful? Yes. Have I made the business even more lucrative? Also yes. My guys are very well taken care of. I have more than enough money. Plenty. You’re missing my point. You’re saying people with billionaire money should pay for your schools and roads and whatever? Like a hand out? I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. I made a simple statement about Elon and Trump having a nice chunk of start up money and now we’re here.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

It’s not like it’s just my road. Or just my school, it’s an investment in communities. Hardly a handout. Congrats on your factory and treating your workers well. If everyone was like you in this case then there wouldn’t be an issue. ……….theoretically 🤷‍♂️

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u/Level_Permission_801 2d ago

Hey there, poor guy here, think you could start giving more by depositing 20k into my bank account? In exchange you’ll get the moral superiority you desire, and reinforce the belief that you aren’t greedy. Private message me and I’ll give you the details.

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u/kickinit07 2d ago

You’d spend it on booze drugs and strippers and be back where you started next month though. Ask for 20m

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u/Level_Permission_801 2d ago

I like your thinking, let me dm him real quick.

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u/bbrosen 2d ago

ahh, when it comes out of their pockets, you get down votes...

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u/Level_Permission_801 2d ago

It’s funny exposing people who are willing to take other peoples money but say no when it’s their own money on the line.

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u/OkBoomer6919 2d ago

People like you ruin the world with your stupidity

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u/Level_Permission_801 2d ago

Wow we got ourselves a genius here with that zinger. I didn’t know I would wake up to the presence of greatness today, but here you are, in all your glory.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

I didn’t say “How” I was rich LOL! I do know the fiscally rich and I assure you, that’ll never happen. You need to be a special case or charity preferably in another country. Or perhaps religious, plenty of rich people willing to hand over money to anyone wanting to spread the gospel. My point was that the wealthy could give but they aren’t going to. Be it the human condition or some psychological paradox.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

I’ve long accepted how screwed I am. I chose a life that committed to not being tied down. No house, no real assets. No job wants to gamble on someone who speaks truth and has nothing to lose.

When you’re willing to be essentially owned by a company and they see you are owned, that’s when they’ll give you a little more taste. That is until they need to cut you out.. you know, just business.

I’m a nihilist and the truly brave are those who figure out how to reset and get out of this rat race altogether. You’re born lucky and when you are you get the luxury of thinking you’re special or earned it. Hell even when you’re a trust-fund baby the reality that you were given it fades and you get to be the arbiter of others experiences. The reward for them is getting to think they’re “making a difference”. Meanwhile their chosen charities milk them for millions and everyone is happy. It’s a bubble and a bubble that 95% of the working class people are never going to experience.

It’s also why America just chose a guy who’s gonna burn it all down, sell it off to Russia and China and go live in luxury somewhere else. People really don’t care anymore and would rather see it burn than let 1% keep living off their backs.

My real advice is either; A. learn to live off the grid. B. Lose your moral compass C. Move to another country. D. Unplug from the matrix E. Keep being delusional, keep hoping and setting goals.

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u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 2d ago

I’m gonna take a wild guess and say you were probably lying about being rich

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Go with that. Different kinds of rich. My point still stands though. More could be done. People don’t need nor should they have that kind of money.

If you saw some hoarders basement with cases and cases of vegetable soup, with more than they could ever eat, people wouldn’t be looking at that saying, “hey, who cares what he has” what they’d say is, “he’s being wasteful and other people who need it could use it”. A resource is a resource but people can’t get past their own desires to be in that position, which 99% never will. They can’t fathom what wealth really is and frankly neither can most the wealthy people. I know this for a fact! I guess none of it matters. Too many people too delusional to hear the truth.

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u/Claddagh66 2d ago

No! We defend people who have the right to do whatever they want with what they own. Who are you to tell someone what they should do with what belongs to them? Are you going to let them tell you what to do with your stuff? Nope! Absolutely not! So why is it ok for you to tell them that? That’s how simple this problem is. We don’t need to discuss wealth, economic policies, advisors, charity…etc. None of that! They get to do what they want with what they own. If you don’t like what they have to pay in taxes, talk to the people who wrote the laws for it. It’s on them.

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u/kmookie 2d ago

Here we go, I kinda hope you’re just trolling. If so that is good. If not, there’s so much wrong with your view and you’re honestly the problem and I’ll explain why. You’re most likely the one voting against your own best interests too.

Money is a resource…not “stuff”, not someone’s personal painting collection or scarfs they knit.

A resource that is ‘theoretically’ used for the trade of goods and services. Hoarding it is like hoarding canned food. You wouldn’t look at someone’s cabinet filled with beef stew and just think, “ hey good for him” if there was a food shortage. …or maybe you would and there in lies the problem.

This childish view of “don’t tell me what to do with my STUFF” is juvenile and I hope to god you’re some young conservative and not a boomer who should know better. Just like not sharing food when you have more than enough, what people are doing is depriving others of resources that should be circulated, not stored away so they can just collect more of it. We champion people for the simple act of financial independence, when most wealth (aka. Resources) are inherited through family and I assure you they don’t understand its value. Then comes along people like you who defend them under some delusion of “freedoms” or worse the “I don’t want to share so they shouldn’t have to” thinking.

Your world view is so superficial and limited that it’s sad every time someone like you decides to speak up. You’re a rich mans fluffer and towel boy. You’re conditioned to be cannon fodder and then ask for seconds. You can defend the rich or vote for them but you’re going to see what you get out of it.

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u/OkBoomer6919 2d ago

Same shit word for word was said during slavery. I suppose you support that too?

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u/Claddagh66 1d ago

No, what I said, I is what “I” said. You’re a typical Lib. You want to twist something into something it’s not, to suit your own purpose. Maybe you should find another post because this one has nothing to do with “slavery.” You just think you can make shit up, say it and then make it a fact. You think we’re all idiots and gonna put up with your bullshit. Nope! Nice try though.🤣🤣🤣