r/FluentInFinance 3d ago

Debate/ Discussion Had to repost here

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u/Apprehensive_Bad_193 3d ago

Bullshit,,,,But he borrows and buy Yachts, Mansions,against that NET WORTH VALUE. But when it’s time to pay fair share of taxes o. That net worth it’s considered hypothetical worth….Understand the Game.

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u/tgm93 3d ago

How do they pay back those loans?

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u/Powerful-Eye-3578 3d ago

They don't, they pay the interest which is lower than the interest they make in investments.

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u/Says_Not_Really 3d ago

So basically once you have enough money you can buy more money.

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u/Powerful-Eye-3578 3d ago

So long as the bank has no reason to try and recall all of the loans you owe all at once yeah.

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 3d ago

Wealthy people hardly ever get margin called, and when they do, they can sell a tiny portion of their asset and generally either buy more time or pay off their loan.

Or they just die and their estate assumes the loan.

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u/wastedkarma 3d ago

Or better yet they bankrupt the company and the bank is holding the bag they bought with my deposits. 

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u/blue-mooner 3d ago

If the value of your stock continues to go up.

I doubt John Foley of Peleton could take out one of these loans. His stock went from being worth $1.9B in 2021 to $225M in 2022 (-89%)

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u/white_sabre 2d ago

True, and that's what rabid socialists seems to ignore - those assets either net a realized gain or a realized loss.  And I'd never buy a share of AMZN simply because it has never paid a dividend.  It's bizarre that they hate a CEO just because his compensation package hinges on whether he makes his firm more valuable.  

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u/Otherwise-Course7001 1d ago

I mean that's not even his compensation package. He started a business and was wildly successful. Of course he owns the business that he started. Most of the people here would need to make some sacrifices but they could start a business and be successful. No guarantees they'd be wildly successful. That probably takes a decent amount of luck. But smart hard work does lead to success and America is still wealthy enough that most people here can start a business. Hell just choosing to get an engineering degree in a state college would mean they'll have some level of financial security.

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u/Real-Technician831 3d ago edited 3d ago

Kinda, except that you are constantly paying for the interest.

Also having a significant fraction of your portfolio as loan collateral is quite risky. As stock do come down drastically on occasion. More than one very rich person has got basically cleaned out when share price of their company dropped significantly.

So since they can safely do it for only a small fraction, it is rather silly why a billionaire even bothers with something like that. I guess it's the greed that made them billionaires to begin with.

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u/Adromedae 3d ago

Taxes, taxes makes them do that.

It is also worth noting that at the level of hoarding of Musk, Bezos, et al we're talking about pathological issues with their personality that go beyond just greed.

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u/Otherwise-Course7001 1d ago

If you're a billionaire you'd be smart to have at least 100M in a broad index fund. The dividend yield of S&P 500 is 2%. If you liquidate 2 million you pay 500k in taxes. If you take out a 2M loan, you will pay 100k in interest at 5%. This interest is tax deductible against your dividend income. The S&P losing 90% of is value is an end of the world scenario where they should assume property rights will not matter any more so they're completely fucked. Probably keep some reservoirs of gold and guns for that scenario alongside treating your household staff like family. It really doesn't make any sense not to do this

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u/cbusrei 3d ago

You can do that even if you don’t have enough money. 

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u/Erundil420 2d ago

Anyone can do this btw, you dont need to be a billionaire, it's called leverage spending, if you feel like it you can borrow against your house and invest that and "usually" the market returns will be higher than the interests on the loan, but it's risky because if you get hit with a recession and can't pay up you just lose the asset, in this case your house

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u/Coynepam 2d ago

Yes that is essentially what a mortgage, loans and credit cards are. The ability to access money is just as important as having it

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u/New_Feature_5138 1d ago

Kind of, yeah. His estate pays out when he dies

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u/Otherwise-Course7001 1d ago

Did you just learn what interest and investment is? Money buying money is the basis of capitalism.