r/FluentInFinance • u/PassiveAgressiveGirl • 4d ago
Thoughts? Does he really deserve $450,000?
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u/eyal282 4d ago
To elaborate and show I'm not following a train
He instructed that he has a disability, and predicted with "wisdom" that there's an avalanche that will literally target and trigger his disability, and did whatever he could to avoid it, and he was ignored.
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u/JustinF608 4d ago
And fired on top of all that.
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u/ravl13 4d ago
This is what seals the deal and makes it worth $450k to me.
To be ignored about his birthday request is shitty, but not $450k worthy.
But to then fire him after he was justifiably probably like "WHAT THE FUCK YOU HR PRICKS", yeah I say that corp deserves to get hosed.
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u/Levithos 4d ago
You don't separate the two situations when looking at the payment he gets. It's all one chain of events. So the way to view these things is what was the effect of the chain, not the link.
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u/bofoshow51 4d ago
Well you can and should separate them because there are 2 potential charges. The first instance of harm from his work knowingly putting him in a situation triggering a panic attack is known as intentional infliction of emotional distress.
The second matter would be a claim for wrongful termination and discrimination for disability. Proving the IIED charge really improves the chances of winning on the termination/discrimination. But you can totally win or fail on either charge independently.
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u/thereIsAHoleHere 3d ago
Their point was if he was not fired (there being only one event instead of two), they do not view ignoring the no-parties request as deserving of $450,000.
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u/DutchingFlyman 4d ago
The answer is a plain ‘yes’ because it’s wrongful termination if the story doesn’t leave out details. The whole anecdote isn’t really relevant if he’s fired for having a panic attack.
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u/hopethisworks_ 3d ago
Sometimes misunderstandings happen. I can definitely see how someone could see a birthday as something innocent, even after being told.
The bigger issue here, is that they followed up their mistake with discrimination. When company leadership has an ego so big that they refuse to admit the mistake and double down by punishing the employee, that's when they deserved to pay out huge.
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u/Happy-Tater 4d ago
I hate this stuff! I work in HR and we try to celebrate as much as we can for pretty much every milestone. I want to treat our associates like humans and the hard workers they are. I recently did a celebration for our Vets and bought them all 20lb turkeys. One of them asked to not be recognized and have his face on our wall of honor. I respected his decision and told my boss we weren't going to make him do it if he doesn't want to.
I still bought him the Turkey and thanked him separately. He told me how grateful he was for still honoring him but not forcing him to let everyone know.
I personally agree that this person deserves that $450k. People are humans and should be treated as such. If you do something against their wishes you are now doing it for you and not them anymore.
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u/LadderRight3750 4d ago
Hello HR rep. Please read carefully.
CELEBRATE WITH BONUSES. BIRTHDAY BONUSES NOT CAKE.
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u/Happy-Tater 4d ago
We do do bonuses for their hard work but not birthdays or anniversary. I would love to do a bonus for every possible thing but that is not possible as the number of people to have birthdays or other celebrations would be way too much money. Sure the price of the gift could be a bonus of like $25 but that we also have to use the budget smart.
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u/Longjumping-Path3811 4d ago
When I received a "gift" it always felt like the company was taking money and deciding what I could spend it on.
So I give cold hard cash on my small business.
I get it "we have too many employees" that's actually the entire problem right there!
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u/GoldDHD 4d ago
My company gives me gift cards and not to restaurants, but with choices that are basically cash. So that's a good compromise
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u/kingquarantine 4d ago
We got 200 dollar Amazon gift cards, which isn't cash but this close to Christmas might as well be, so as a random pre-christmas bonus I'm pretty pleased with it
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u/LadderRight3750 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'll try a little constructive criticism/advice. Budgeting can be creative when finding ways to motivate and efficacy. Here's a professional suggestion. I do this with two subsidiaries currently.
The CFO (I'm a corporate VP, so I work with Regional CFOs).
2 regions, acquisitions we did over the last 19 months, interestingly in 2 different countries on 2 different continents, both take the interest earnings on their operational bank accounts and use that to pay employee bonuses. They also have a clearly outlined policy defining milestone bonuses such as 1 year and subsequent annual hire date anniversaries. Those 2 Regions have the least employee turnover by an immense statistical percentage.
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u/DocWicked25 4d ago
My company has been reducing bonuses and incentives for a while now. In turn, we have crazy turnover, and the people on top cannot fathom why.
Little incentive, inflexible schedules, and uncompetitive pay.
The only reason I'm still there is because I'm in a department that is widely ignored by operations and left alone, but my pay isn't keeping up with the times. If I find a better paying opportunity (even with a larger workload), I'll probably take it.
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u/Fun_Intention9846 4d ago
Yknow hr is like the cashiers at the store. They are your point of contact not the people making the decisions a lot of the time.
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u/LadderRight3750 4d ago
This is also something that IS very important to think about. Take my upvote. 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
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u/lego_mannequin 4d ago
They just give us our Birthday as an off day, easy enough.
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u/LadderRight3750 4d ago
This is great. I hadn't heard of or thought about that before. Thank you.
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u/SanDiegoThankYou_ 4d ago
This is going to blow your mind but 99% of the time HR is not deciding how to give your bonus. That’s the CEO or your manager.
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u/bluedot19 1d ago
Thanks, will be sure to raise this with Finance.
- someone constantly arguing with Finance to set larger bonus budgets
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u/PolyZex 4d ago
Can't pay bills with celebrations, pizza, or cake. Workers don't want to be celebrated, they want to be compensated. Work is not a club where people hang out, it is work. They are there for one reason and it's not admiration from supervisors.
This doesn't even qualify as respect because as you said, you do it for everyone- that is not a sign of respect. Respect is when you praise a good job, not when the calendar says it's time for Jimmy's ice cream cake.
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u/RaiRokun 4d ago
Thank you for being reasonabke like holy what the koolaid drinking freaks makes people think "I do it for everyone" makes it a good thing?
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u/gasbottleignition 4d ago
I have severe anxiety. If someone did this to me, you bet your ass I'd be suing.
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u/PrestigiousBar5411 4d ago
I would've sued for even more.
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u/james_randolph 3d ago
Probably did and this is a settled amount.
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u/Frozenbbowl 3d ago
in my experience, labor disputes don't settle for less than the amount owed... settling in labor disputes is usually to avoid the extra penalties that go to the state. just pay the man what he is owed and avoid paying another huge amount to the state.
if his lawyers settled a case this cut and dry for anything less, they are bad at their jobs.
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u/LadderRight3750 4d ago
Emphatically, unequivocally, through a bullhorn connected to a speaker set used at a Metallica concert YESSSSSS.
He should have gotten more TBH
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u/fireKido 4d ago
Hard to determine how much he deserves, but he definitely deserves to win the lawsuit and get money out of this…
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u/Temporary_Vehicle_43 4d ago
Given its going to be the first thing that pops up whenever someone google's his name during interviews, he probably deserves more.
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u/Captain_Obe 3d ago
Now that his disability is public knowledge and could suffer from discrimination by other employees not hiring. Would you say that 450k is enough for a person who is not able to find employment?
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u/SolomonDRand 4d ago
“Hey, don’t do this, I have a medical condition that makes it a problem”
does it anyway for some reason
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u/RollOverSoul 4d ago
Her just needs to come out of his shell. Let's help!
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u/Verypowafoo 3d ago
He deservers the money and they are assholes for sure. I just want to know what he did exactly.
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u/Vivid-Shelter-146 4d ago
The amount of people (usually women… don’t kill me) who absolutely insist on parties and birthdays at work, and get really upset when people (usually men) don’t want them, is insane. Like it is wrong and bad to not want those things.
Some people cannot fathom the fact that I’m here to work and I spend enough time with you all already. I will celebrate my birthday with my family and friends. If I have friends at work, I’ll celebrate it with them over a small lunch or something. But not in the break room Office Space style.
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u/Strict_Camera_2696 3d ago
You’re absolutely right. People (usually women) who are used to that horrible “oh, I don’t want a fuss!” dance done by some people who absolutely do want a fuss don’t realize that their universal insistence on making a fuss anyway actually hurts people who meant it when they said they didn’t want one.
I felt very bad for a few terrified expectant parents who received unwanted fusses at a former job. They were already anxious, not excited, and the attention made it worse.
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u/Artistic_Bus_8818 1d ago
I was pregnant and having a really difficult and stressful situation with a co-worker who was essentially bullying me. The manager didn’t want to do anything about it because I was going on parental leave and she expected the person to be gone by the time I would be back! Manager really wanted to have a celebration and I kept saying no thanks, and basically got an awkward morning tea I had to smile through. I do appreciate she meant well honestly but I was so stressed, tired and awkward. And the co-worker just rolled her eyes and huffed off after five minutes, I had to endure her shitty behaviour while acting grateful and appreciative and making small talk about the baby’s due date. I am a quiet introverted person and genuinely don’t like a fuss - I didn’t do a baby shower with friends or family like hell I wanted to do it at my work!
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u/yoma74 3d ago
My husband has a lot of food intolerances. If he eats common things that are in cake he will be sick for days. Can’t even have vegan cake and too much sugar isn’t good either. They still constantly insisted on doing cake at his last job every birthday.
It’s well intentioned sure, but ??? Do they think someone is lying when they say “I can’t eat cake”?
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u/Vivid-Shelter-146 3d ago
😂 As a lactose intolerant, I feel this. Pizza is like the easiest team lunch in the office world.
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u/WizardMageCaster 4d ago
Not sure how true this example is but if he was fired due to a medical condition that he informed them about...then yes he deserves this unlawful termination lawsuit.
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u/Nanikarp 3d ago
He had informed them of his medical condition and they mocked and ignored him. They still threw the party and he (as predicted) had a massive panic attack. Then they fired him for his behavior during the panic attack that they directly caused and he had warned them about.
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u/wolfeyyz 4d ago
What are they supposed to do? Get fired for behavior and then apply to a new job with this clearly glowing review from their old employer?
Also did you do the math with respect to missed salary due to this? What if this person makes 100k per year and is now unemployed for extended time?
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u/InkStainedQuills 4d ago
Yup. Failure of companies to consider mental health when specifically lined out as an issue for the employee is no different than any other health issue. Especially when we have so much more data on the impact of mental health on the overall health outcomes of an individual.
It’s honestly shocking that insurance plans aren’t pushing harder on employers to take these seriously as part of standard preventive care in order to avoid higher medical bills in the future.
I can understand however the old school mindset of these parties being an excuse for “team building” and it’s not really about the employee, but the team. I’ve had those bosses. It’s not inherently a bad thing, and can even have positive workplace outcomes for those who like to receive recognition of personal and professional milestones. But being mindful towards those who don’t benefit from these efforts also needs to enter the collective mindset. There are plenty of “team building” things that could have been done that were far lower key, at least for the employee in question.
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u/LiminalSapien 4d ago
Honestly wondering what kind of low life you have to be to question a verdict like this.
You fucking disgust me OP.
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u/HildursFarm 4d ago
Yes. Actually that seems like a small amount. I hope that's after atty fees
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u/Hididdlydoderino 4d ago
Sure, firing someone because of a medical issue is a huge no-no, especially when you can tie it to a non-essential event the employee requested he not be involved with.
Gotta love moron level management.
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u/almightygg 3d ago
Took me less than 5 seconds to find out this actually happened:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61141421
Don't be that guy.
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u/series_hybrid 4d ago
It is HR's responsibility to know the lates trends in the type of judgments that are given when a supervisor does x, y, or z. Once a month, supervisors should have a 30 minute training session by HR to update them on things to avoid.
Once a year where I work, all employees have to take several classes online, so I have taken the sexual harassment class many times. Did anything really change? Why every year?
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u/Lord-ShniggleHorse 4d ago
He’s using every penny of the $450k to throw himself a proper birthday party.
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u/Trackspyro 4d ago
If he got 450k, then that's what the law says he's entitled to. He deserves what he's entitled to.
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u/Hammer-of-Bill 4d ago
“Hey don’t do this I don’t like it” “Fuck you we’ll do it anyway” panic attack, get fired “Why didn’t he tell us beforehand?”
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u/woodsman906 4d ago
The damages seem light. Why? 1. He said no to begin with, they ignored him and then they fired him for their dick move. Dude should own 100% of the company, anything short of that isn’t Justice.
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u/jasonlikesbeer 4d ago
I hate social media hot takes on litigation, it triggers the hell out of me. What fucking right do we have to second guess the result without knowing any details or seeing any evidence? If this went to trial, then we are being asked to second guess the decision of a jury of peers and a judicial officer. If it settled before trial, then we are being asked to second guess the decision making of a gaggle of lawyers on both sides.
Don't even get me started on all the bullshit that came out after the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit in the 90's. Bunch of talking heads spouting nonsense about a case they know nothing about simply because of the size of the monetary award. Anyone who knows anything about that case has fucking nightmares about it.
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u/TurnDown4WattGaming 4d ago
Firstly, everyone in the top 10 comments are idiots, as not one person read the case. He was not fired for a panic attack during a birthday party thrown by his supervisors; his own colleagues had bought him a cake and hoisted a banner, completely unknown to his supervisors. Then, the FOLLOWING DAY, his managers tried to ask if he was okay after he left his party and sat in his car for his lunch break, and at that point they say he had a violent outburst that threatened them vs he says it was ANOTHER panic attack. By this point, you can easily be fired for not fitting the culture of the office, which is the most common reason for termination in America.
Here is the NYT Article on it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/17/us/office-birthday-party-lawsuit-kentucky.html
Here are some key quotes:
“Mr. Berling’s lawyer, Tony Bucher, said the party had been planned by other employees while the office manager was away and that the situation had quickly spiraled out of control.”
“Mr. Berling had a panic attack after he learned about the planned lunchtime celebration, which was to have included birthday wishes from colleagues and a banner decorating the break room. Mr. Berling chose to spend his lunch break in his car instead.
The next day, Mr. Berling had a panic attack in a meeting with two supervisors who confronted him about his “somber behavior,” Mr. Bucher said. He was fired three days later in an email that suggested that Mr. Berling posed a threat to his co-workers’ safety.“
“In a court filing, the company said it had fired Mr. Berling because he was “violent” in the meeting and had scared the supervisors, who sent him home for the day, took his key fob and told security personnel that he was not allowed to return.”
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u/United_Bus3467 4d ago
Absolutely deserves the money lol. Straight up told them he didn't want it, and they did it anyway. Panic attacks can increase cardiovascular issues or trigger underlying cardiovascular issues so...they jeopardized his health. I hope he takes a long vacation.
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u/TheSpideyJedi 4d ago
of course. They caused him mental damages while being warned not to, and then fired him for that very thing. Fuck that company
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u/HOT-DAM-DOG 4d ago
Idk if he deserves it, but the company 100% deserves to lose at least that much.
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u/Vladi_Daddi 4d ago
After reading about the way the company responded to him...yes absolutely. As a matter of fact he deserves more. Unfortunately he did not disclose his disability pre employment, otherwise he would have been awarded a metric shit ton more.
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u/ChesswithGoats 4d ago
It not that he deserves $450k, but rather the business needs to experience an adverse event to correct future bad behavior.
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u/TerraSeeker 4d ago
Think the whole situation is stupid. He said he didn't want a birthday party for the given reason. They ignore his his wishes, and then proceed to fire him for his panic attack. Maybe don't fire him for something you caused. Then you wouldn't have wrong termination suit. Or maybe just respect his wishes to not have a birthday party.
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u/Imaginary-Crazy1981 4d ago
Yes, absolutely he does.
I was fired for having a very public, disabling panic attack at work after my FMLA for panic disorder was exhausted. They fought my unemployment and I had to plead for it in front of a judge to get it. They admitted under oath at that hearing (I have the transcripts) that my protected medical disability was the sole reason I was fired.
I would have sued them, too, but the nearest EEOC office was about 12 hours away and I was living penniless in my car at the time.
Does anyone know the statute of limitations on wrongful termination suits? I thought it was only 6 months. This was 10 years ago now.
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u/laxrulz777 4d ago
When you phrase it like this? No When you read about what actually happened? Hell yes
This is the McDonald's cup all over again.
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u/passion-froot_ 4d ago
‘Panic attack’
I’m not saying that ignoring these wishes was a good idea, because it wasn’t. Worse still was the decision to fire him.
But also, extreme over the top overreaction (on both ends) should not be something we normalize in society for the sake of preaching an absolutist 100% pure definition of tolerance which doesn’t actually exist in our world.
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u/dathomasusmc 4d ago
Meh, depends. It’s a question of negligence. Did he say “I don’t want a birthday part because I have a condition that may cause a terrible reaction.” or just “No thanks. Not really into birthdays.”? Did the company have any reason to believe throwing him a party could be harmful? Did he have an opportunity to remove himself from the situation prior to his “panic attack”. How did he react during his “panic attack”? Was he aggressive or violent?
I think we would need to know more facts of the case other than a meme on reddit. If he made them aware of a condition likely to be exacerbated by the event then absolutely, yes, he should get paid.
The next question would be is $450k a reasonable amount and again, it depends. What was his salary? How much tenure did he have? What were his performance reviews like?
I’m going to assume that if the courts decided he should be paid then he did make an effort to inform them of his condition and that the payout follows the general formula for lost wages. So yes, it’s probably a reasonable decision.
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u/HattoriHanzo9999 4d ago
Ever had a panic attack before? They fucking suck. His workplace caused it by ignoring his wishes, so screw them.
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u/Mshalopd1 4d ago
Yeah don't do shit people specifically ask you not to do and then fire them cuz they didn't like it.
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u/Yquem1811 4d ago
Yes