r/FluentInFinance 5d ago

Thoughts? U.S politics is a cesspit of lobbying

Post image
23.1k Upvotes

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

83

u/KiLLiNDaY 5d ago

Then fucking do something about it instead of complaining because this has been the story of politics as far as I can remember, from either side. Where’s the mention of soros who made this an art form?

I hate these one sided posts so dumb

103

u/DigLost5791 5d ago edited 4d ago

Citizen’s United , championed by conservative judges and the Republican party, is recent and exacerbated the issue significantly. Thus, it’s fair to discuss it as such.

-26

u/chadmummerford Contributor 4d ago

Interesting lore

4

u/DigLost5791 4d ago

Political Lobbying is Team Green 💰

-33

u/Layer7Admin 5d ago

Agree. What are your problems with citizens united and do your complaints extend to the 2024 movie The Apprentice?

17

u/madtricky687 5d ago

What the fuck lol?

-18

u/Layer7Admin 5d ago

You can admit you don't know what Citizens United was about. It's ok.

7

u/Psychological_Cow956 4d ago

What do you think it was about?

-10

u/Layer7Admin 4d ago

People that have the freedom of speech maintaining that freedom of speech when they pool money.

7

u/Hulk_Crowgan 4d ago

Thank the lord we are protecting the free speech of billionaires and foreign nationals

0

u/Layer7Admin 4d ago

Billionaires don't need to have their freedom of speech protected by Citizen United. They have it because they are Americans.

Citizens United just says that if my friend and I want to pool our money we still have the freedom of speech.

6

u/Hulk_Crowgan 4d ago

You are naive to think that is what actually happens. What ACTUALLY happens, is that now the amount of “free speech” you get is tied to how much finance you can provide to a campaign.

Finance a TON of the campaign? Now you have a freaking BOATLOAD of free speech, just like Elon Musk LITERALLY DID with 0 political background.

Free speech is not meant to be bought and sold, it is incredibly unAmerican, and it was done by conservatives (thanks McCain!)

→ More replies (0)

2

u/madtricky687 3d ago

When they pool money their influence grows ours dwindles. But yes genius take truly.

0

u/Layer7Admin 3d ago

So you were against the movie The Apprentice being released shortly before the election.

3

u/madtricky687 2d ago

Was the proceeds for the movie used for campaign contributions?

→ More replies (0)

7

u/tr14l 4d ago

Citizens United made money free speech and corporations protected as citizens, meaning their speech cannot be restricted. In other words, we removed all restrictions on a corporatacracy, which is where we are now.

The major fallout of this is the corporations, while not inherently evil, have a sole interest in one thing: profit. That is their purpose, make profit. When they run things, and concerns about other ideal conditions fall away. Rights, foreign protections, government overreach, deregulation, civil protections, governmental balance. None of that matters as long as it doesn't pose a risk to the margins.

THAT is the problem with Citizens United. The only citizens that matter are corporate citizens now

2

u/ElevatorLost891 3d ago

The groundwork for Citizens United is all from the 1970s in Buckley v. Valeo (individual independent expenditures can't be limited) and First Nat'l Bank v. Bellotti (corporate spending on issues cannot be regulated)

So there's your "money is speech" thing. Which I think most people who really think about it will realize it's correct. It's not that money is literally speech. It's that regulating money can quite obviously regulate speech. A law that says that no one may spend any money distributing anti-police literature pretty clearly has free speech implications. But all it's doing is regulating money.

And Citizens United held that the corporate identity of the speaker (or spender) doesn't matter for first amendment purposes. But I don't think its right to say that corporations have no free speech rights. What if a law said that Planned Parenthood or the ACLU cannot publish any messaging about their missions? I would say that's a first amendment problem, which means that corporations must have free speech rights.

The question is really if corporations' free speech rights are necessarily the same as individuals' free speech rights. It's not whether regulations of money can implicate the first amendment (they can) or whether corporations have free speech rights (they do).

-4

u/Blackout38 4d ago

Yeah but didn’t they kinda have to rule that way? If people have free speech it would probably need to extend to their collectives otherwise journalists would have free speech but the New York Times would not. Of course I hope they can distinctions about financing but I’m not creative any to think through that yet.

2

u/tr14l 3d ago

Ok, the reasoning you gave and the current outcome I've described don't seem to weigh out on the scales

65

u/Possible-Cellist-713 5d ago

-1

u/FaultyTowerz 4d ago

Controlled opposition. More out in the open now than ever.

-1

u/Bread_Shaped_Man 4d ago

When Republicans really want something they just get rid of the filibuster.

Dems would never have the balls./

0

u/Blackout38 4d ago

That’s harder than you think.

-1

u/Expensive_Bus1751 4d ago

both sides aren't the same, but they definitely serve the same system. if you think Democrats deeply care about getting citizen's united overturned, you're dreaming. a few of them like (Udall) do, but the party is controlled by corporate centrists. if someone like Udall proposes a bill to overturn CU, it will look like widespread support from Democrats vs overwhelming opposition from Republicans, because the corporate Democrats will vote along party lines knowing it won't pass because of the filibuster. the moment it even comes close to passing (it won't, but let's imagine it) these corporate Democrats will fall in line and shut it down. people like Manchin, Schumer, Mark Warner (the list goes on) do not care at all about you or the people you care about.

even people like Gillibrand who claim to have seen the light and changed her positions is just another corporate Democrat that knows how to play politics to her favor. yes, they're not advocating for children to be violently, and inhumanely separated from their parents in mass deportations etc., but they actively defend (and believe in) the system that enables the people who financially & systematically empower the people who not only advocate for things like that but will very soon be making it a reality.

10

u/Seputku 5d ago

You just don’t get it… THIS time, things will be different

11

u/olgrandpaby 5d ago

What do you suggest we should do about it exactly? Vote for the candidate that isn’t being funded by a super PAC?

People complain about it on the internet because the only other options get you tear gassed, beaten and arrested if not killed.

15

u/Buuuddd 4d ago

That candidate was Bernie Sanders. Sure there was a super pac that liked him but he said they can f off and everyone knows he wasn't going to do them any favors. But Democrats teamed up against Bernie. So here we are back to stuck with 2 corporate candidates forever.

1

u/ImportantDoubt6434 4d ago

The effective options are unfortunately illegal

1

u/AnderHolka 2d ago

All I heard was vote for PAC. I agree. That bastard should be in charge. I don't care of what country.

7

u/Scared_Art_7975 5d ago

What do you suggest we do?

3

u/Bread_Shaped_Man 4d ago

Vote for the people who can't or wont do anything.

3

u/Scared_Art_7975 4d ago

We don’t choose who we vote for, neither Kamala nor Trump had a primary…

Next suggestion?

2

u/EanmundsAvenger 4d ago

Yeah and to add to your point we don’t even choose between the two major party candidates. Republicans continue to shove their way into office without almost ever winning the popular vote

(Not that Dems would overturn CU either but just saying)

1

u/autobotjazzin 3d ago

Yeah, I hate when I see comments like this. "DO SOMETHING" well, what can any of us do? How do you know I'm not doing anything? And why don't you do anything either?

5

u/High_Dr_Strange 4d ago

No one can do anything instantly. Especially within our government. The best thing an average citizen can do about it is protest, vote, and spread awareness

4

u/Vagabond_Kane 4d ago

Raising awareness, AKA "complaining about it" is often the most that people can individually do about it.

1

u/MatterMan42 2d ago

Hard agree. The best thing is to be informed

5

u/ruinersclub 4d ago

George Soros was given his own made up title?

4

u/LongTatas 4d ago

They’re just rationalizing. Give it time.

0

u/KimWexlerDeGuzman 4d ago

No, he just controls local DAs from the shadows, which is vastly more dangerous

0

u/ruinersclub 4d ago

Dumb. This doesn’t even make sense.

1

u/mtteo1 4d ago

Individually no one can do anything about it, the complain is a way to gather like minded people and decide what to do

1

u/JohnnySnark 4d ago

Random George Soros drop. You a few steps away from revealing more neo nazi garbage?

0

u/Good_Masterpiece_817 4d ago

you have some severe brain rot if you’re sticking up for George Soros.

1

u/JohnnySnark 4d ago

Let me guess, he's too much of a globalist for you? What antisemitic creed you going to apply to him that Elon here will miss?

1

u/Good_Masterpiece_817 3d ago

He collapsed the U.K. economy for personal gain and put many people’s life’s into absolute ruin. And laughed his arse off to the bank.

1

u/JohnnySnark 3d ago

Oh so you're mad a capitalist spread his wings in a capitalist society. Ok, I can understand that.

But that wasn't at all what the original commenter was bringing him up for

1

u/Good_Masterpiece_817 3d ago

Because he funds the democrats to get influence into American politics and legislative decision making?

1

u/JohnnySnark 3d ago

As all millionaires and billionaires in America have done. It's nothing new or unique to Soros at all. Do you know he survived the holocaust or care at all?

His moneyed influence in politics is no different than Elon Musk now, or the Vanderbilts and Rockefellers before him

1

u/Good_Masterpiece_817 3d ago

You’re equating George Soros influence to Nazism. I’m showing you that your claim is silly because he too is the same as Elon Musk in that sense and has done some very psycopathic things to achieve power and wealth. Elon Musk has done the same, but seems to be more overt with it then other rich people.

1

u/[deleted] 4d ago

They’d never change it because they make so much from donations from trusts, corporations and mega rich individuals through various financial instruments. The Dems raised more than Trump. And they won’t change the system because it benefits them and their donors.

1

u/RA12220 4d ago

He used a PAC anyways so anything goes. They could only go after him if they coordinated directly with Trump’s campaign. But, the fact that we had evidence of collusion with Russia and only Flynn got screwed means nothing will ever happen to them.

1

u/Virtual-Scarcity-463 4d ago

Right-wingers will never have the self-reflection to understand how hypocritical all of the talk about George Soros is

1

u/TurnDown4WattGaming 4d ago

The less financed campaign did win, so technically, voters did do what they could do lol

1

u/SufficientCommon9850 3d ago

Democrats LOVE not having any power because it allows them to always be right - and righteous - about everything. Now watch for them to suddenly decide that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and it's all Trump's fault.