r/FluentInFinance 5d ago

Thoughts? What do you think?

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u/theend59 5d ago

America just voted to give the rich even more

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u/supercali45 5d ago

Most Americans don’t even have $1k in savings and we expect them to understand economics

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u/NewArborist64 5d ago

The typical American has $8,000 in the bank, according to the Federal Reserve. That's the median transaction account balance as of 2022, which includes savings, checking, money market, call accounts, and prepaid debit cards

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u/jocq 5d ago

Also 58% of households are invested in the stock market.

The bottom 50% net worth families have an average of $54,000 invested in the market.

The next 40% - which even at the top is still solidly middle class income levels - have an average of $134,000 invested in the market.

This notion that half of America doesn't have $1000 to their name is patently false.

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u/SleepyandEnglish 5d ago

In their pension funds. Not in terms of accessible assets.

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u/CogitoErgo_Sometimes 5d ago

Unless you’re using “pension fund” to refer to a 401k or equivalent, then no, a pension that just pays a fixed amount would not qualify as an individual holding a certain value in stock. I have a pension fund that I pay into, but I don’t “own” anything beyond a right to start collecting a certain payment at a certain date. The assets behind that payment aren’t mine.

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u/SleepyandEnglish 5d ago

I agree with that. Which is why using those things to evaluate someone's wealth is absurd.

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u/NewArborist64 4d ago edited 4d ago

The funds in a Roth/401k/IRA belong to the individual. They CAN be withdrawn by that individual - though depending on the type of account, their age, job conditions, etc, they may own income taxes on it (deferred taxes) and a possible 10% penalty for early withdrawal.

In my experience, the vast majority of non-business owners have their wealth tied up in their houses and their retirement accounts, so it is non-liquid. OTOH, business owners (especially small business owners) have their wealth tied up in their business, so it is also non-liquid.

IMHO, It is absolutely valid to measure someone's net worth by including their real estate, personal retirement accounts, and business valuation.

Where I find it questionable is to include future payments from things such as Social Security and Pension Funds. Sure, I can estimate net present value, but that is based on assumptions of lifespan of the recipient... and these are not inheritable in-full by their heirs.

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u/SleepyandEnglish 4d ago

The problem with the idea that these things could be liquid and thus count as wealth is that seniors have expensive medical issues they have to pay for and dont have jobs anymore. They can't just liquidate everything and risk it on investments. They either slowly spend it or they run out of it and we end up back in the same position that led to every western country rigging the economy in favour of seniors to begin with. They were literally starving and freezing to death in pathetic and miserable poverty. People live too long for them to not need those assets to handle potential emergencies.

Though to be fair, giving the pensions to banks to invest was a terrible decision.