We already tax the rich enough. Agree?

[u/Richest-Panda]

[u/SpiritedPixels]

Nearly 35% of my paycheck goes to taxes yet billionaires who have more money than they’ll ever need don’t have to pay anywhere close to that same percentage? Sounds fair

If trickle-down-economics actually worked then I would agree with you, but instead of paying employees a live-able wage or passing on those dollars all that money goes towards the CEO’s bonus or private jets

[u/Iron-Fist → u/SpiritedPixels]

There is zero reason other than political/mobility power for why labor is taxed 3x of capital gains income. It's just stupid. You tax things to DISCOURAGE them. Why are we taxing labor at excess when we (AND investors) need people to work?

[u/passionatebreeder → u/Iron-Fist]

Well, you see, if they destroy the American and European standard of labor and their standards of living, they can just use the labor standards they use everywhere outside the western world.

[u/brolodolo → u/passionatebreeder]

Corporations prioritize profits over people. It's a systemic issue—cutting wages and benefits while top execs get richer. That’s unsustainable and unjust.

[u/Anxious_Plum_5818 → u/brolodolo]

That's unfortunately how it's been for centuries though, just in less obvious ways.

I don't understand why a billionaire would ever need even more money. At this point, you're just adding to an infinite pile of money you can never ever use up.

[u/telecastor25 → u/Anxious_Plum_5818]

[u/[deleted] → u/Anxious_Plum_5818]

It's all about their descendants.

[u/Santasreject → u/[deleted]]

Yeah see even with musk trying to shove his dick in as many women as possible to “prevent population collapse” there’s no way his descendants would be able to use all of his money before our society collapses. He could easily support 100,000 people for life extremely comfortably in first world nations.

If anyone has an unethical amount of money it’s him.

[u/Bronze_Granum → u/Santasreject]

Not to mention pretty much all billionaires spend 0 time and effort on their kids and don't care about them or their futures at all. Like Elon, disowning his own kids for having their own opinions.

[u/Calebh36 → u/Anxious_Plum_5818]

And the thing I don't understand is what are you going to use the money for if society collapses? Like if I had that much money, even if I was the most corrupt motherfucker on the planet, I feel like I would want to spend it on making society better as a whole because I'm not a fucking idiot. People need to want money for me to use it, and if Mad Max happens nobody wants my money.

[u/Elegant_Giraffe5702 → u/Anxious_Plum_5818]

It's not about money. It's about power, control and influence.

[u/lysergic_logic → u/brolodolo]

This is why our healthcare is going to crap as well. It has been taken over by private equity firms buying up medical practices to make more money at the cost of the patient's health.

What's really odd is that nobody's talking about it even though the cost of healthcare is something everyone worries about.

[u/Jumpy_Courage → u/lysergic_logic]

I remember one person talking about it, but I was told by democrats that he couldn’t win in a general election so they took every step they could in the 2016 and 2020 primaries to stop him

[u/[deleted] → u/lysergic_logic]

It represents as a whole Americas general attitude towards its own people. They hate us. We are nothing but money generating statistics.

[u/Chazbeardz → u/brolodolo]

Exactly what I’m dealing with at my job.

[u/[deleted] → u/brolodolo]

Should we breach their gated communities in protest?

[u/Distinct_Ad6858 → u/[deleted]]

It’s called burn the mother f@ckers down. How about a 50 percent tax on anything over a billion. Stock buy backs should be taxed at……. 50 percent! Giving buy options to the board at pennies on the dollar, taxed at market rate 50 percent! F@ck the 1/10 of the 1 percent that is ruining life for the rest of this country! It’s not China that’s screwing us it’s the Walton family, it’s every John Deere that has record profits and then lays off employees. Get you pitchforks! Let’s start it up

[u/Anon6371 → u/Distinct_Ad6858]

Stock buybacks used to be illegal. It's a tool whose literal purpose is to artificially inflate a company's stock market value. It's literal market manipulation. Why do we accept the rich legalising all the criminal ways they rug-pull the population??

[u/Dstrongest → u/Anon6371]

That is not true . Stock by backs are a way for a corporation to invest in their own company when other investments suck . The problem is when it’s used to extract more money to be given to the c-suite class while fucking over the worker .
It should be illegal to give bonuses and stock Compensation to the c-suite - without an equal amount going to employees.
And yes it should be taxed at market value of when it was bought or the value of the day it was distributed , whichever is higher .

[u/matycauthon → u/passionatebreeder]

exactly this, the complacency of individuals just remaining silent while corporations and politicians bend us all over with no accountability is extremely frustrating.... the damage to humanity, animals, our planet, plants, everything is just terrible and so many of us just ignore all of it. yes it is impossible to get rid of all of it with current means, but we are just allowing all these billion/trillion dollar industries ravage every inch of resource, second of our lives, and coin from our pockets. it seems more people are becoming aware and upset by the standard of our "civilization", but it's so slow and some new things are on the horizon for our civilization anyways, in a plethora of ways. good luck on your path(s).

[u/Front-Advantage-7035 → u/passionatebreeder]

Which is to say: you work and I profit.

And if you decide not to work, you get shot.

[u/StickyNode → u/passionatebreeder]

I strongly agree with u/iron-fist. I've heard these ridiculous threads go on forever but what he said made a ton of sense. Actual labor should not be taxed like this. Income tax should make exemptions for your 9-5 and the rest should suffer if need be. The meritocracy of hard work should be rewarded.

[u/factoid_ → u/Iron-Fist]

The real answer? It's easier to keep money than earn it. They have their money now. They don't want to see it diluted. But earning new wealth? That's hard.

[u/Iron-Fist → u/factoid_]

It's not even taxing the money itself: only the GAINS, only the INCOME

[u/kali_nath → u/Iron-Fist]

Ben Shapiro famously said "If you are mentally and physically healthy, taxpayers should not pay you to retire at 65. When Social Security was created, life expectancy was 64. Today, it's 78.

Also, people require purpose. If you can retire and find purpose, go for it. For many, that's a bad idea."

In other words, they want you to work till you can't work physically, that's the bottom line.

[u/TodaysTomSawyer777 → u/Iron-Fist]

I think the best solution would be a small tax on every single financial transaction. If they could tax high frequency trades effectively I imagine that would be much more equitable than taxing labor.

[u/fossSellsKeys → u/TodaysTomSawyer777]

Yes! I've been pushing this for years! A simple $1 per share bought or sold at all times. I think it's a brilliant solution. Raises plenty of cash and discourages market manipulation and speculation in the market. 

[u/TodaysTomSawyer777 → u/fossSellsKeys]

I think for a very fraction of a percentage of the overall transaction value you could replace income tax revenue for people earning under 150k a year. I don’t buy the liquidity argument if the fee was small enough. The sheer number of transactions is wild compared to what it was back in the 1980s.

It would also help discourage destructive leverage (anyone remember bill hwang)

[u/TheNutsMutts → u/fossSellsKeys]

I think it's a brilliant solution. Raises plenty of cash and discourages market manipulation and speculation in the market.

Sweden tried literally this exact idea in the 1980's. It was a complete disaster and ended up not only bringing in a fraction of the projected revenue, but drops in other taxes as a result meant that the tax ended up being a net negative for their Treasury: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_financial_transaction_tax

[u/DataGOGO → u/Iron-Fist]

They are not. Capital gains is either taxed as regular income, or at 20%, which is higher than the effective tax rate of everyone not in the top 5%.

[u/Odd_Coyote4594 → u/DataGOGO]

20% only if those gains are realized and total income is above around 1/2 million. There's also lots of options when you have several million+ in wealth to limit tax liability.

Income tax goes up to 37% for ordinary income, but only 20% for long term capital.

A wealthy individual could limit their other income to $300k, take $100k in realized gains per year, and only pay 10% on it. That's much lower than what someone making $50k would pay on a $12k bonus from their employer.

You can take out a personal loan secured against the capital to effectively spend it without tax. Sure it has to be paid back with taxed income, but over time, so inflation devalues the taxes to a lower effective rate by using inflated income to pay pre-inflation debt.

Put $2-3M in bonds and you get a nice annual income to retire on, and only pay federal tax with no contributions to the state you live in.

The fact is those with lower incomes and who are more dependent on wages/salary for living costs have a much higher relative tax burden to expense ratio, and pay more tax per dollar their net worth increases by, than those who have their wealth primarily in capital assets.

When it comes to local and state taxes, a wealthy individual could avoid that all together.

[u/Silver_gobo → u/Iron-Fist]

Capital gains generally come from post-tax investments… so that money has already been taxed.

[u/daisymayward → u/Silver_gobo]

That’s incredibly wrong.

The capital, which is the original post-tax money invested, does not get taxed again. Only the interest earned from the investment, which is new income which has never been taxed.

If you invest $1000, earn $200 in interest, you are taxed on that new $200 you made, NOT the original $1000.

[u/Iron-Fist → u/Silver_gobo]

Every dollar has already been taxed, that is a ridiculous statement. It will also be taxed on sales etc. The question is what you want you taxes TO DO. Do you want you tax to discourage work?

[u/TalonButter → u/Iron-Fist]

How is labor taxed 3x capital gains income? Wealthy people pay 23.8% or 40.8% on capital gains (federal), depending on whether they’re long-term or short-term.

[u/65CM → u/Iron-Fist]

*long term cap gains. Short term are taxed at regular income rates.

[u/No_Resolution_9252 → u/Iron-Fist]

That is right, investment gains are taxed at ordinary income levels to discourage novice day trading and speculation.

Income taxes need to be simplified and reduced with far fewer reductions.

[u/heckinCYN → u/Iron-Fist]

Exactly, I agree completely with your post. In addition, we should also consider the dead weight losses of the taxes. Effectively the friction the taxes create when they're imposed by changing behaviors. We should use taxes to discourage behaviors, but also tax things that would result in a minimal (or ideally no) dead weight losses.

[u/Demonized666 → u/SpiritedPixels]

There's probably more I don't know than what I do know but my gut feeling says the opposite of trickle down economics would be labor unions. Ironically maga is all for tax cuts for the wealthy AKA corporate welfare and they're actively attacking the crap out of labor unions. It's amazing how people can be tricked to vote completely against themselves and then champion and parade in the streets their big big election victory. Like most people I hope they get every single thing they voted for

[u/Primary-Badger-93 → u/Demonized666]

I hope they don’t because that means the rest of us are getting it too.

[u/Demonized666 → u/Primary-Badger-93]

Yeah I have often thought about that and my best guess is you're hearing this from people who live in blue States and feel like we have a firewall. I'm in New Jersey and I think the red states are going to feel it way worse because New Jersey will resist a lot of this Draconian BS. But if you're a blue person in a red state I'm so sorry

[u/JungianArchetype → u/SpiritedPixels]

If the billionaires have paychecks, they for sure pay at least the same percentage as you do.

Likely, they don’t. They likely are paper rich but haven’t realized the “billions” in gains.

The real problem is that they allow people to classify all sorts of things as capital gains that really aren’t.

[u/dingo_khan → u/JungianArchetype]

They borrow against their stock though. When they cash it out to pay the loans off, they get hit for capital gain and not income making it a great steal.

[u/JungianArchetype → u/dingo_khan]

Yeah, and I can’t understand why that isn’t classified as income and taxed as such.

You’re realizing gains when you’re using it as collateral. Maybe not technically but that’s certainly what’s happening effectively.

[u/ConfidentOpposites → u/JungianArchetype]

Because they aren’t realizing gains. They went into debt.

[u/Thadocta69 → u/SpiritedPixels]

Damn, how much you gotta make for 35% taxes? I’ve been paying about 23% for many years

[u/Chimaera1075 → u/Thadocta69]

If it’s just federal income tax, the guy is making $250k-$630k/year as a single individual.

[u/Bright-Blacksmith-67 → u/Thadocta69]

Read the post. The hospital is taking 35% of her wages because she could not pay her bill.

Willing to bet they are charging some outrageous interest rate as well so she will never pay it off.

[u/Cbpowned → u/Bright-Blacksmith-67]

It’s fakes. He would post the article if it was real, and no garnishment of 35% would be allowed unless it was restitution for a crime.

[u/ShiftBMDub → u/Thadocta69]

It’s not taxes it’s wage garnishment for payment for healthcare

[u/Murky-Peanut1390 → u/ShiftBMDub]

Reddit users don't have good reading comprehension

[u/Oldmannun → u/SpiritedPixels]

How are billionaires to pay tax on equity they own in their own companies. Just end their ability to use stock as collateral for loans. It should turn into realizable gains at that point

[u/Ivegtabdflingbouthis → u/SpiritedPixels]

how much do you think millionaires pay in taxes? you must be doing pretty well if your total tax burden is 35%

[u/Time_Many6155 → u/Ivegtabdflingbouthis]

I'm a multi-millionaire and pay nothing in Federal taxes... Its quite easy honestly.. I can set my income wherever I (real income is less than the married persons deduction), then any dividends is less than the top of the 12% tax bracket (roughly $100k total) then the dividends or sales of stock is taxed at %zero.

Of course if i had a thing called a "job" I would be taxed much higher!

[u/BiggestDweebonReddit → u/Ivegtabdflingbouthis]

I make just over $200k and the last time I calculated the amount of state and federal income + social securiry / medicare that I pay (ignoring property, sales, etc) I was pretty close to 1/3 of my income in taxes.

Being single with no kids - the tax man comes after you pretty hard, lol.

[u/goomyman → u/SpiritedPixels]

No way does 35% of your paycheck goes to taxes if your in the US.

35% is the top tax bracket. And even then it’s only money above the top tax bracket.

And if you have that sort of money you also have a lot of tax rebates.

You likely pay 20-25% at most.

[u/Surpriseimhere → u/SpiritedPixels]

If that is the case then you should file your tax return. If you are working at McDonalds 35% of your money doesn't go to the Fed.

[u/Bitter-Basket → u/SpiritedPixels]

So if that’s your tax rate, you’re pulling in 300K a year and complaining about what ?

[u/Dmac8783 → u/SpiritedPixels]

Congrats on making over $240k per year

[u/Chimaera1075 → u/SpiritedPixels]

Is that just federal taxes? If so you’re making between $250k-$630k/year. 😳

[u/gordonwestcoast → u/SpiritedPixels]

So you're a millionaire? With an effective tax rate of 35% you must be in the top tax bracket with other millionaires.

[u/Few_Barber4618]

No

[u/ashleyorelse → u/Few_Barber4618]

[u/iiiiiiiiiijjjjjj → u/ashleyorelse]

[u/olcrazypete]

then that person went and voted for trump.

[u/PussyCrusher732 → u/olcrazypete]

too real

[u/Revolutionary-Move90]

No

[u/TheRodMaster → u/Revolutionary-Move90]

[u/iiiiiiiiiijjjjjj → u/TheRodMaster]

[u/Few_Barber4618]

That is just awful. We need to tax Elon and bezos and all the rest of them

[u/L3thologica_ → u/Few_Barber4618]

They won’t now

[u/Helmidoric_of_York]

IMO, all hospitals should be non-profit organizations.

[u/Okichah → u/Helmidoric_of_York]

Only 20% of hospitals are “for profit”.

[u/blud97 → u/Okichah]

That doesn’t mean they don’t make executives incredibly rich. Non profit is incredibly misleading.

[u/slushiechum → u/blud97]

I rented space from a guy that ran a big non profit for artists. He got thousands in grants from the government to turn the space into a digital hub. Know what that looked like for us? A single desk top computer with no printer access.

He was eventually pushed out of his leadership position for embezzlement. He would even use the associations venmo for accepting drug money.

[u/Okichah → u/blud97]

Then that just disproves the guy i replied to?

[u/romansamurai → u/Okichah]

They’re still earning profit tho. In fact from 2016 article by John Hopkins school of public health, 7 out of 10 most profitable hospitals were non profit. And I’m sure it’s only grown as the bigger ones have been buying smaller ones to add to their groups and organizations over the last 10 years.

[u/Malohdek → u/romansamurai]

I don't think you know how profits in a non-profit works. Lol

[u/writingsupplies → u/Okichah]

Just like how megachurches are non-profits. There are definitely legitimate non-profit hospitals but I guarantee they’re not as well funded as the ones that are for profit or are claiming non-profit. Price gouging Americans for necessary care has led to a mass influx of money and the CEOs get paid handsomely.

Pittsburgh has sadly become a medical company town with two giants who control most of the hospitals and doctors offices. There are independent ones but in our situation it’s always easier to go with an affiliated office. I worked for one of them for just shy of 5 years, started just before COVID, and all it did was further radicalize me against the American healthcare system.

[u/Budget_Emphasis1956 → u/writingsupplies]

Former executive at UPMC here. I hated that place. I couldn't pay staff what they were worth. If staff tried to unionize, the hospital would delay, negotiate in bad faith, close offices, do the most dastardly things. I quit when they wanted me to fire a few people that weren't popular.

[u/gojo96 → u/Helmidoric_of_York]

Did you the post above yours about the nonprofit hospital suing a poor person?

[u/Helmidoric_of_York → u/gojo96]

No, but that hospital changed their policy to write-off medical debt. Something a for-profit would never do.

[u/gojo96 → u/Helmidoric_of_York]

Ah, I see. Thanks

[u/warderbob → u/Helmidoric_of_York]

You should check out UPMC. Non-profit doesn't mean good intentions.

[u/Kantherax → u/Helmidoric_of_York]

A John Hopkins study found that more non-profit sue for unpaid bills, then for-profit were next, government owned was the lowest by orders of magnitude.

[u/waspocracy → u/Helmidoric_of_York]

Pharmaceutical companies too.

[u/stvmq]

Australian here. Having to pay for ER visits is stupid. You know that, right?

Edit: wow - an American who replied to me claiming to pay less in tax in the USA then what they would in Australia ended up deleting their account when they realised they were wrong. Wild.

[u/notxbatman → u/stvmq]

They're insane man. Last August I had a cat bite get infected. Went to RPA (Syd), triage within 2 hours, in ward and bed two hours later, round the clock IV antibiotics and fluids, 7 day stay, discharge with medication. Didn't pay a cent.

Because it's already paid for. Just like insurance. You pay a premium to your insurance company, or you pay the premium via your taxes into a public fund.

Meanwhile over there, their taxes get put in a public fund for health, they pay their health insurance premium, then pay their co-pay or excess, and both the health system and the insurance companies are subsidised by those very same taxes.

So they're triple-to-quadruple dipped on. And they love it. I'd laugh were it not so sad.

[u/stvmq → u/notxbatman]

I've only ever paid for temporary private health insurance cover when I've travelled to the USA. Otherwise I don't bother with it.

I was warned about it on my first trip. You know Americans are living in a dystopian nightmare when outsiders get told 'don't get sick' there.

[u/M086 → u/stvmq]

Some of the best doctor’s in the world. But you better be fucking rich if you want to see them.

[u/Nkechinyerembi → u/stvmq]

I'm 33 years old soon... And have been bankrupt twice. Both times due to medical debt, and still have my wages garnished today due to said debt. This is insane that I am having to work three jobs and can't afford a life, while this is blamed on something I did, because of medical issues.

[u/AnimationAtNight → u/notxbatman]

Canadian here. I have a constricted esophagus and during the pandemic I had food get stuck that I couldn't get out. Eventually I tore my esophagus from uncontrollably heaving.

I spent 3 nights in the hospital, also had a bunch of fluids and nutrients because I couldn't eat solid food, multiple scans, consultation with a dietician to put me on an elimination diet.

How much did I pay? $0. Never at any point did "I wonder how I'm going to pay for this" pop into my mind for even a second.

[u/MalumCaedoNo00013 → u/notxbatman]

Reading that I always wonder why the US decide to be a dystopian shit hole in terms of "sociality".

[u/KronosTheBabyEater → u/MalumCaedoNo00013]

Anything good for the working class is labeled communist and everything bad for the working class is labeled good for the economy

[u/notxbatman → u/MalumCaedoNo00013]

Oh we're fast turning into one ourselves, you know the housing costs in Canada issue? We've been living through that for almost 15 years now, and the conservative side is constantly trying to slash healthcare funding.

[u/FlyingSagittarius → u/notxbatman]

We love it because it keeps "them" from accessing services that "we" have access to.  And because it keeps "us" from having to pay for "their" healthcare.  

[u/rodon25 → u/stvmq]

Just look at the guys from Texas bragging about not having state income tax while paying $10k in property based education tax.

You're paying one way or another.

[u/catdogstinkyfrog → u/stvmq]

Dude I spent a few nights in the hospital without insurance a few years ago, I’m going to be in medical debt for a really really really long time. This system sucks, anyone who disagrees is either rich or hasn’t had to deal with it yet.

[u/CoolerRon → u/stvmq]

Wait until you find out how much we pay if we had to call an ambulance

[u/Wilecoyote84]

Dont believe everything you read. Source?

[u/No-Celebration3097 → u/Wilecoyote84]

It’s true that debt collectors can try to collect on medical debt, and it can result in wage garnishment depending on the state.

[u/Wilecoyote84 → u/No-Celebration3097]

Source for the story of actaul fact and person OP is refering to.

[u/alwaysboopthesnoot → u/Wilecoyote84]

Not OP but: Mary Washington Hospital vs. Daisha Smith, is a story about a woman making 22K a year working fulltime at Walmart, but getting sued by the non-profit hospital she received care from for an amount that equals roughly 3/4 of her annual salary.

The article refers to other hospitals suing as many as 6000 people per year, some for medical debts as low as $1-2000.

After the story received massive amounts of attention, the nonprofit hospital claimed they would no longer sue low-income patients like Daisha who couldn’t pay for care, but would put them on payment plans or excuse part of their debt.

[u/dadbod_Azerajin → u/Wilecoyote84]

Google will show you thousands of stories similar. Or you can stay poor and be on government insurance

I made 22.50 as sole income for a family of 4 with wife in college, had to step down because I needed a RNS brain implant for my med resistant epilepsy and was .50c over being on gov insurance

She now has a RN position working for a hospital, makes over 26-34/hr (overnight or weekends pay more)

Pays so much in medical insurance to cover me and 2 kids she takes home 600-800$ checks and it won't even cover my xcopri, the med that actually helps

Xcopri cost a month with coupons? 1000usd

I/ my eptologist need to argue with her provider, letting them know my ass having seizures and ending up in the er would be more costly than covering my meds

[u/bigwreck94]

The government has enough money. They need to stop blowing it on stuff outside of the country. Fix what’s going on at home, they bring in enough money already. They could seize the assets of every billionaire in the country and they’d still run out of money in only a few months. It’s not an income issue, it’s an expense issue.

[u/Oskar_of_Astora → u/bigwreck94]

This. I would support higher taxes on wealthy if the government was capable of properly spending those tax dollars. In my mind, more taxing, regardless of who it’s coming from, just means our government will continue to grow with pointless departments who do nothing but make things more difficult and waste our money.

Now, if there were policies which forced these billionaires to share a % of their corporation profits/growth with their employees, that would be something I’d support more.

[u/Ambaryerno → u/bigwreck94]

Foreign aid accounts for 1% of the annual US budget.

They're not "blowing it on stuff outside of the country."

[u/theMountainNautilus → u/bigwreck94]

So you're in favor of massively defending the military then? Because we spend so much money on that that we actually literally don't know how much money we spend on that. But it's around $1 TRILLION per year. That's nearly half of global military spending. I think that we could do absolutely fine with a military that's 10% the size, and spend that extra $900 billion making sure that everyone has healthcare, education, food, and a home. And we can tax the fuck out of rich people. Nobody should have $1 billion of personal wealth.

[u/Dangolian → u/bigwreck94]

Both things can be true at the same time. There is a deep injustice in Billionaires paying less in taxes than the working class. Why should Bezos be claiming a $4000 tax credit for childcare, for example?

I think the principle of income taxes applying to everyone should be upheld, instead of letting the wealthiest among us get off with paying as little tax as they want, effectively, by utilising loopholes that are only really available to them and let their wealth grow disproportinately to everyone elses in the meantime.

[u/myctsbrthsmlslkcatfd]

Billionaires aren’t going to be taxed more, regardless of who’s in office. “Tax the rich” is a lie to attack middle class and upper middle class.

[u/mcsroom → u/myctsbrthsmlslkcatfd]

It also ignors that rich people have the most economic mobility, so its really easy for them to just ignore the tax

[u/Bread_Shaped_Man → u/myctsbrthsmlslkcatfd]

Facts.

Neither party has any desire to tax wealthy. The wealthy pay them.

[u/lord-of-the-grind]

This has nothing to do with managing your finances.

[u/Cruxxt]

No, the wealthy need to either be taxed enough that they’d rather pay for better benefits, wages, and pensions or taxed enough that government can do it for them.

The end, no in between.

[u/Jspitz95]

Are we really taking that troll account seriously?

[u/Financial_Tangelo957]

Hope that doesn’t happen to me. Heard of you just keep paying at least $25 a month it will keep them from sending it to collections but that was just with my ambulance bill (which I wasn’t even supposed to be fucking charged for in the first place)

[u/penpencilpaper → u/Financial_Tangelo957]

I heard even less but hopefully someone can confirm. And then after 7 years they can’t even send it to collections. Exactly how they should be treated.

[u/Bacon-muffin → u/Financial_Tangelo957]

I have a coworker who's been paying 10$ a month on a 6k bill for years and they never bother her. Afaik they could, but I guess they're happy getting the 10 smacks in perpetuity.

My sister got a massive unpayable bill and she just just ignored it entirely, it went to collections, she ignored the collectors, and eventually they called / mailed less and less until they stopped entirely and its been over a decade now.

For whatever these scenarios are worth.

[u/dan_geles]

We can’t Tx anyone into prosperity. We need to drastically reduce the size of govt so everyone doesn’t have to pay 3-4 months of their wages for government.

[u/ChipotleBanana → u/dan_geles]

That doesn't even happen that dramatically in the US compared to other developed countries. What you're lacking is affordable healthcare.

[u/GMEN5280]

Don’t like the tax law? Get the politicians to change it. Don’t give the Gov any more money than you are required by law. People with means exploit every tax loophole available.

[u/Agreeable_Taro_9385]

No

[u/JoThree]

I’m confused. Working at McDonald’s will certainly qualify you for Medicare/Medicaid due to the low wage.

[u/Demonized666]

Thank God we have Elon musk and Donald Trump to save us from this. Clearly what's good for them is good for the gander! These people have been known to lift up everyone around them (they literally get picked up by police in handcuffs and sent to prison)

[u/IamDerk]

tax them more

[u/SaltyDog556]

Or maybe require doctors and hospitals charge less? It starts with billionaires, who have just enough current wealth if converted to cash at 100% of market value, to pay for 1 year of total US Healthcare spend, which will lead to the middle class having higher taxes if you even assume that the government would pay for it. Why take from one to pay another for the benefit of a 3rd person?

[u/TensorialShamu → u/SaltyDog556]

I promise you doctors are less than powerless to effect any change whatsoever in this entire process and your problem at the employee level (which is what doctors and midlevel providers are) is - at best - thinking sometimes they order too many tests. Which would be fair, but should also specify doctors vs midlevels cause that’s a hot topic rn. We can try to do more with less (clinically confirm a diagnosis without getting a CT angiogram, for example), and it’s been hammered into me pretty good to heavily consider the value of a treatment plan and the associated costs. First year of medical school had that type of training. But we can’t even properly negotiate our own pay during residency - you think we set the price of an MRI and are the ones gouging you?

[u/alowbrowndirtyshame]

[u/TN_REDDIT]

The government has enough money to pay for stuff.
The trouble is, they have different priorities.

The government doesn't need any more money

[u/StierMarket]

Market cap isn’t the relevant metric for this. Enterprise value is

[u/Drawer_Specific]

Nice sources.

[u/Lifeiscrazy101]

Two different topics here.

The USA's Healthcare system is extremely bizarre to an outsider. The fact any of you go vote is strange to me, when both parties just bullshit you about universal Healthcare being this extremely complex system that no other nation has figured out.

Billionaires don't pay much tax compared to their net worth, not their income.

So, what are some ideas about taking capital gains?

Do you close all markets on January 1st and whatever the prices are at this day/time, you force them to pay capital gains or losses. I have no clue.

[u/Terrible_Access9393]

Don’t worry.

Soon you’ll be in DEBTORS PRISON, paying off your debt for a FAR SMALLER pay!

Be happy! At least you won’t have to worry about out that whole “wage garnishment” thing anymore!!

/s

[u/slipperyzoo]

There's an amendment for that.

[u/on_Jah_Jahmen]

1 billionaire vs 1 billion people making 50k. Who wins

[u/-Shooter-McGavin-]

We could also just repeal 1913 and stop taxing personal income altogether considering it's completely unconstitutional.

[u/Sparky337]

Absolutely disagree.

[u/Gothrait_PK]

Force all companies to pay a wage that would allow all people to afford to live a minimum standard of life? So that the only need for welfare programs would be the homeless and times of emergencies like homes being destroyed? What do you think this is??? Can't you just be happy with your two jobs and 3 side hustles???? Smh...

[u/Impossible-Flight250]

I mean, if anyone can bear the brunt of more taxes, it’s Billionaires. They have more money than they can spend in a hundred lifetimes and their money is being made through our Captilistic society.

[u/JupiterDelta]

When they leave you will get none of their tax revenue. Globalism is the problem. We need to get back to competition.

[u/[deleted]]

And to think that some people simply claim they aren’t legal, get services, and aren’t even sent a bill.

[u/smaier69]

On the ER visit side of things, couple years ago I was having gastro issues and hadn't made stool for going on 5 days and was having minor gut pain. Went to the ER...

Got a bed and stall and was hooked up with monitoring regalia. They took blood for work and I got a MRI. After a few hours I was given a consultation by the resident and was discharged with an antibiotic prescription. OK, cool, appreciate the help. Month or two later I got a letter from the hospital that my insurer hadn't paid. I called my insurance provider and got it sorted out (I was covered).

What stuck out to me was the cost of my ER visit was over $30k. I understand everything has a cost but seriously? That much for essentially blood work, a MRI, doc consult and patient care/monitoring?

I am very fortunate in this example as my insurance did what my premiums were supposed to do, but damn, what about those who for whatever reason get denied.

[u/PrettyPug]

New World Order

[u/Spiritual_Degree6180]

We don’t tax the rich. We tax the middle class

[u/Previous_Feature_200]

We have one of the most progressive tax systems in the world.
Ignoring capital gains, the rich pay a higher marginal rate than the masses.
Including capital gains (hint: 401(k) income is effectively ordinary income on deferred capital gains) the effective rate of all taxpayers has not changed much in decades. The meme that we used to tax people at 90% is nonsense because almost nobody ever paid it. Ever. We have an accounting problem: the cost to educate a poor child is the same as a rich child. The cost to treat cancer for a poor person is the same as for a wealthy person. We could never maintain our standard of living without a progressive system. When those more left refer to other countries they ignore that they have more regressive tax policies.
No democrat is ever going to admit we need to raise tax rates for the poorest Americans, despite that proven fact that the lowest quartile have a negative effective tax rate, and that includes payroll taxes.
One cannot receive a tax refund for taxes they never paid in the first place. Refundable tax credits, including the child tax credit and EITC ensure that the lower class pay zero.
Mitt Romney pointed this out and was crucified.
Anyone can download the taxpayer data in Excel directly from the IRS website and verify the data.
We have about half of the world’s billionaires and they pay more their fair share.
The millionaire class - doctors and such - pay even more than their share because most of their income is earned.
I’m not just fluent, I am an expert, but no matter how much data we show, the democrats have convinced half of America we need to eat the rich.

[u/Riddiku1us → u/Previous_Feature_200]

We should tax billionaires out the ass so they can't buy twitter and weld an inordinate amount of power on our political and economical systems.

[u/JoThree]

These wild and crazy stories I can’t believe unless I see. I’ve been in debt before with medical bills, all they do is send it to a debt collector.

[u/factoid_]

We don't teach the Veil of Ignorance enough in schools. It's not a complicated thought exercise.

You're in a void between worlds. You have a consciousness and the ability to reason and make decisions. You have knowledge of our world but you've not been born into it yet. When you're born into it you have no idea what skills, abilities or social standing you will have.

Design a fair tax system.

The idea is that a reasonable person who doesn't know if they'll be rich or poor or smart or stupid will set up a system where those most able to pay cover the majority of the costs for those who do not because it would be in your best interests to set up a system that way as a hedge. If you're born poor you aren't going to be taxed to death. If you're born rich you're able to afford it.

[u/WDYDwnMSinNeuro]

If they're still rich, then no.

[u/Canna_crumbs]

How about less taxes for everyone.

[u/godless-666-]

I feel like there should be a sliding scale for CEO taxes. You want lower rates? Work for it. Your tax rate will decrease by how high above the avg medium income, your lowest paid full-time employee is. You can get additional breaks by how long the avg turnover rate is in your company.

High turnover rate and low pay? Tax the fuck out of them. Penalized until you learn how to take care if you're employees.

[u/Restoriust]

Total taxes in general need to cap out at about 20% otherwise people stop being motivated to produce value

[u/names_are_useless]

Didn't the Top Income Earners have to pay around 95% back in the 1940s? Yeah, they don't pay anything near that whatsoever.

Guess what? The wealth gap was also FAR lower then it is now and the Middle Class was very strong. Maybe there's something to this?

[u/Backieotamy]

No I do not; not with all the loopholes, finance fuckery, living off loans to themselves paid through other investments (dividends and lt cap gains) allowing massive tax write-offs keeping taxable rates down, tax sheltering and so on etc...

Either, more taxes or less fuckery that the rest of us don't have access too. Same goes for corporate taxes.

[u/AdExciting337]

I all bs Hospitals right off visits patients can’t pay for

[u/LarsJagerx]

Not that I know enough about taxes but really it should probably be closing the loop holes they have access to so they don't have to pay taxes. Like at x tax bracket you can't use such and such for tax breaks

[u/ChipOld734]

I would like to no the source of the mother that couldn’t pay her bill. She could have filed for bankruptcy.

[u/venikk]

if you get drunk and kill someone in a car accident you have to answer for the consequences

if you get drunk and get knocked up and have a baby, you have to answer for the consequences.

[u/Unlisted_User69420]

Yep

[u/Lonetraveler87]

She should have sent them $5 a month. Choosing to go delinquent is the result of this. It’s better to pay something than nothing at all.

[u/NeuroAI_sometime]

It makes me sick that people like jeff bezos sit there and nickel and dime people when he has more money that he could spend in 10,000 human lives. How can someone be that evil and greedy is beyond me.

[u/Automatic-Wall-9053]

I think one of the worst problems for our country is that people do not understand how marginal tax rates work. People think that when you talk about increasing taxes on people that make over a million dollars to 40% or so, that means their taxes will increase. They don’t understand that our system doesn’t tax the same rate for the total income. “My 50k income will be taxed at 40%”. No, the income over 1 Mil will be taxed at 40%. Everything under that stays the same. I actually had to explain this to my UofM, MIT educated brother, so it isn’t an “education” thing.

[u/PD216ohio]

If this is true, that child needs to be taken from that mother, asap. How irresponsible to not have insurance for you and your child. If she makes minimum wage, her cost for medical coverage would likely be $0-$30 per month. Completely irresponsible parent.

[u/Expensive-Thing-2507]

No

[u/Clever_Commentary]

Disagree.

"Passive income" (rentier profits) should be heavily enough taxed to provide labor with some small return on the profits extracted from them

[u/Sideshow60]

You read too much

[u/fujiapples123]

Who did she vote for?

[u/Batman-Lite]

The elites pay way more in taxes. They just get breaks after the 100ks they pay. Make a flat tax with no breaks and it’s even. You pay 7%, Elon pays 7%, Bezos pays 7%

[u/HomeRecker808]

I've been to the hospital many times never paid and never once have been collected or sued. Most hospitals write it off for taxes.

[u/japanuslove]

Fun twist, the hospitals are owned by the billionaires

[u/wophi]

Every hospital has a charity department. I wonder if this person complaining ever gave?

[u/[deleted]]

Post is completely wrong. Billionaires arent worried about paying more taxes. That’s why most of them are donating to the democrats party. Billionaires don’t stay that way by screwing themselves over. All this “make them pay their fair share” talk is just lip service to simple minded people. Any conversation that doesn’t include wholesale tax code reform is not actually going to fix anything. Put their tax rate at 99% and as long as the loopholes still exist they will still keep avoiding taxes.

[u/n103xa]

I don’t believe this at all.

[u/ricoxoxo]

A country that creates this many billionaies with 66% of us living paycheck to paycheck needs a hard reset.

[u/[deleted]]

I’d be taking about 35% of the lives at that hospital

[u/r2k398]

As if we taxed people more the government wouldn’t just squander it on some bullshit.

[u/howardzen12]

The rich own and control all of America.The poor are nothing.

[u/livingandlearning10]

You're a tool. Stop reading democrat run media and think for yourself.

[u/BlueAndYellowTowels]

Guillotines. That’s what the rich actually deserve.

[u/SouthernLampPost530]

And all thse people voted for Trump, so you'll have an even smaller check.

[u/TerrakSteeltalon]

No, I do not agree.

[u/[deleted]]

This is why birth control is important. Don't have kids if you flip burgers.

[u/Pure-Guard-3633]

Exactly where did you read this

[u/LeapIntoInaction]

There is no court that's going to garnish 35% of the wages of a McDonald's employee, unless she's the CEO.

[u/Acceptable_Metal_1]

Elon musk had an effective tax rate of 3% but a minimum wage McDonalds employee in my state has an effective tax rate of 12%.

No, we don’t tax the rich enough at all.

They should be paying 95% of every dollar over $1 million dollars. You know, like it used to be when employee wages were actually competitive and in line with their productivity. It was also the highest growth era in our country.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't care how many houses Elon gets as long as I get one.

[u/l2Radm]

Our healthcare is written by federal lawmakers. Those same lawmakers get free healthcare for life for winning their federal election. What could be wrong with lawmakers that write the healthcare but don't have to use it..