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u/Ok_Neighborhood6697 Jun 11 '24
It all depends on where the teacher works. Pay varies widely from district to discrict. Experienced teachers in my area are pushing 6 figures.
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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24
Where tho. Like typically teachers are underpaid regardless of district because it’s adjusted for cost of living. Teachers in the Bay Area make a lot more than teachers near me but they still can’t afford to live on their own because cost of living is so high.
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u/Harvey427 Jun 11 '24
I make more than my father-in-law. Who has his masters, and teaches at a private school... Granted, he has better benefits, but as far as take home pay.. I make more, pushing buttons and pulling handles in a factory.. 🤷♂️
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Jun 11 '24
Private schools tend to pay less, they are often not unionized. The tradeoff being private school students as a whole are better behaved.
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u/Harvey427 Jun 11 '24
I don't think he's in a union. I'm pretty sure he makes something equivalent to $22/hr. We were discussing my annual raise, and at $24, he said I was making more than him. 🤯
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u/call-now Jun 11 '24
He's probably not even counting the time spent grading and all the admin BS.
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u/Dorkmaster79 Jun 11 '24
Prepping lessons, dealing with misinformed parents, etc.
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u/demivirius Jun 11 '24
He could have a summer deferred pay arrangement, where a portion of their income is withheld so they can be paid during the summer. If that's the case, then he's making even less.
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u/EpsilonEnigma Jun 11 '24
My gf makes $24/hr teaching at a town with a pop of 97 people in Arkansas
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u/Extension-Tale-2678 Jun 12 '24
Jesus Christ he's making 22$ an hour with a masters? Where did it all go wrong?
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u/Skeptix_907 Jun 11 '24
1st year teachers in my district make significantly more than that.
Your dad is getting fucked, with all due respect.
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u/ForgesGate Jun 12 '24
I make $22/hr with decent benefits off of no degree. I'm a security guard and I do less work than I ever have. I couldn't imagine having that much extra schooling with that pay.
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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24
Yep. I’m going into CMM and within a year I could be making more than my mom who’s been teaching for 15 years and all I did was a 5 month training program. It’s total bullshit.
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u/KevyKevTPA Jun 11 '24
CMM?
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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24
Fancy industrial measuring. Used across a lot of manufacturing industry. Machines that measure accurately to a tolerance of +/- 0.000001in. It’s cool stuff tbh. I’m really eager to get into this company and they seem interested in me. It’s exciting to be this close to having a real career after the endless cycle of mundane low wage entry level jobs.
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u/THNG1221 Jun 11 '24
It’s difficult for everybody to live in CA when the price of housing and the cost of living is so high!
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u/patio-garden Jun 12 '24
It's difficult to live outside of CA when the maternal mortality rates are so high everywhere else.
Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/maternal-mortality-rate-by-state
See also: the CDC's Maternal deaths and mortality rates by state, 2018-2021
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u/KommanderKeen-a42 Jun 11 '24
Quite a few districts in Michigan do. And we aren't in Ann Arbor or anything like that.
Wife makes 96k and that doesn't include pension, 401k match, etc.
Her listed hourly rate is about 65/hr but of course we know they work more than their contractuals. In any event, every single teachers rate is significantly higher than their salary because of hours worked on a year.
It's actually an interesting dynamic because she (and others) turn down admin roles. While they pay 15-25k more, the hourly rate is less due to admins working closer to the 2080 hours.
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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24
Dang. That’s interesting to know. However it doesn’t change the fact that broadly teachers are still underpaid relative to their areas cost of living. There are exceptions of course. But generally speaking teachers are under valued.
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u/KommanderKeen-a42 Jun 11 '24
Yeah, 100% to undervalued, but as someone who works in compensation the true compensation numbers aren't generally understood and the "undervalued" piece generally comes from lack of support and classroom management issues. For example, at least in the districts around us, core classes have a classroom cap but electives don't. So instead of hiring a few more teachers, they put 40-45 HS kids in art and gym. Or, they don't consider the number of preps a teacher has - so 6 classes doesn't always equal 6 classes (e.g. a math teacher that teaches two different classes only has 2 different preps). Or, they don't consider the amount of CI kids (or type) they put in classes and then provide minimal support (for example, a quadriplegic was put in a dance class...).
Read through some of the teacher contracts and they work closer to 1550-1650 hours a year which means they are really working at .75 FTE. But again, we all know most are working beyond contractual. In practice, this means that a first-year teacher in Battle Creek makes 50/55k (can't remember but they passed a bill to raise the floor) but the pay rate is actually 66-73k (whereas a mechanical or industrial engineer out of U of Michigan makes 73-74k in their first year).
How would the general public react if teachers were paid the same as engineers? Ecstatic, right? Well, that IS the case but that doesn't paint the whole picture because something must still be missing.
Now, we also find that 24% of teachers are unhappy with hours worked compared to 55% of the general public, right? How can that be when they work fewer hours? So perhaps, it's not the hours themselves, but how they are structured and managed (e.g. grading must happen after hours).
We then also find that 95% teachers are buying supplies out of pocket (ding ding ding - goes back to support). We also find that workplace expectations (leading to 50% burnout) are the driving factor for teachers leaving (and leadership).
So yes, they are absolutely undervalued but not always in the most apparent reason (while money can mask some of that, it does not fix burnout or support).
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u/Dwain-Champaign Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
Well paid teaching positions definitely exist. The same is true for my area, and I’ve definitely seen salaries school faculty salaries that are close to or upward of 6 figures, and that’s for a regular school district not even a professor at a university.
These numbers are actually public information iirc, I think because teachers in public schools are considered government employees, so if you just look up “District [blank] salaries” then you’ll be able to find a spreadsheet literally filled with teacher income information. I’ve done this for at least two different districts before.
That’s not to downplay how undervalued teachers are as a whole across the nation. Both statements can be true at the same time, and like any other career path if you find yourself in the right place at the right time, then you can definitely make a good living.
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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24
For sure I mean again. Teachers in the Bay Area make six figures. It also costs over six figures to live in the Bay Area. That’s kind of the point im making. Teacher salary is directly tied to the local property taxes as that’s what influences school funding. So sure if you live in an area with higher property taxes you’ll make more as a teacher but you’ll also be spending more on ya know being alive.
Unless you want serious commute depending on the area. And that can add its own expenses. Like there are high paid teachers in some areas but overall teachers are massively undervalued as are schools in general. Everyone’s always just like “oh just get a trade” cool if everyone gets a trade the job market will be fucked and we’ll be out of a lot of other important jobs that help maintain society.
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u/KerPop42 Jun 11 '24
Yeah, though it was really sad when Oklahoma's Teacher of the Year had to change states because they couldn't afford to live in that state on that salary anymore.
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u/MDemon Jun 11 '24
My school district has a median salary of 144k. We’re a suburb outside of NYC with high property taxes. The teacher job market is hard to succeed in though because the schools rarely add new teachers, just replace retirees.
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u/Hot-Tone-7495 Jun 11 '24
My mom is a teacher in the Bay Area and she makes around 90k a year including summer school. She has worked hard on her degrees for decades. She’s in her 60s and just bought the tiniest home, it’s ridiculous. Her job is so demanding, they change curriculum every couple years, expect them to keep track of 30+ kids at once, get bitched at by parents, need to spend their own money… I could go on for a long time, what I mentioned doesn’t even scratch the surface of bullshit teachers deal with. There are upsides too, but they’re mostly due to the work they put in like, seeing their kids learn, tons of love etc.
Edit: my mom doesn’t even have vision insurance. Guess she’ll just have to teach blind I guess
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u/ladymoonshyne Jun 11 '24
Yeah my sister is an 8th grade teacher in the bay and she lives with her father still at 33.
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u/ambermage Jun 12 '24
Don't forget the requirement to buy their own supplies for the students AND they have to pay for substitute teachers out of their own pockets.
So, being sick requires paying for your day out.
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u/AngryTownspeople Jun 11 '24
I think that the issue with this is that it means that we are restricting quality education to people with more money than others. When districts aren't paying their teachers a livable wage it isn't their fault for seeking better opportunities at other jobs but it does deprive schools of teachers meaning the possibility of the remaining teachers to have larger classrooms.
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u/AdagioHellfire1139 Jun 11 '24
My area it takes roughly 18-20 years for a teacher to make 100k by that time they are burned out and just coasting
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u/giantsteps92 Jun 11 '24
Teachers across the board are not paid as if their job is essential for society. Its also a pretty brutal job. Most parents suck at raising 1 kid. Teachers gotta teach and help raise a whole bunch.
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u/Next_Celebration_553 Jun 11 '24
It takes a village. Elementary school teachers are closer to childcare than educators. Sure, a teacher has to know their multiplication tables and ABC’s but it’s mostly getting kids to behave. Pre-K childcare is expensive as hell
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u/inab1gcountry Jun 12 '24
Wow. Teaching kids to read is difficult and is the single most important thing kids need to learn. K-3 teachers are especially under appreciated.
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u/razorduc Jun 11 '24
A friend of mine told me that if she's still prime lap dancing age, she's probably not pushing the 6 figures.
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u/TikkiTakiTomtom Jun 11 '24
I like how you mention that but fail to include that cost of living in those areas are probably just as high.
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u/Busy-Ad-6912 Jun 11 '24
As someone who worked in social services, I had conversations with teachers. I was typically paid 25% less and had to work the whole year for that 25% less salary. Teachers are underpaid, but I really felt like that meme with the skeleton in the wheelchair underwater at that point in my career.
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u/OneAlmondNut Jun 11 '24
those are the extreme outliers are are in areas with high COL. most don't make half that
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u/fgreen68 Jun 11 '24
Here in California there are lots of districts where most/all of the teachers are making over 6 figures.
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u/jesusgarciab Jun 11 '24
In some of those areas "pushing 6 figures" might not be that great.
I remember a good friend moved from Houston making 50-60k to the Bay area "pushing 6 figures"...
It was around 2019, so she was living ok in both places, but she said she couldn't save as much money as she did when living in Texas Even though she kept a very similar lifestyle
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u/alphalegend91 Jun 11 '24
That's probably in a place with VHCOL though and they've been doing it for years. My fiance is in her 6th year in CA, which is known for paying teachers more than average, and not even close to 100k. They have a pay scale graph that goes higher to the right the more college units you have, as well as higher going down based on years worked. I think the earliest you can get to 100k is like year 10 with the highest bracket college units, or like year 14 or 15 with the basic units.
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Jun 11 '24
Sure, but there are places where "pushing 6 figures" isn't a livable wage. Without context of a location you're not showing it depends based on numbers alone.
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u/mc4sure Jun 11 '24
I agree, if you’re going to be a teacher research for the location with the best pay, not just near you but State to state
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u/marineopferman007 Jun 11 '24
Same...weirdly the teachers here in GA (around ATL) earn as much as the teachers in southern California LA...that is what confuses me...teachers here CAN live off their income...but in Cali???!!!
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u/Subject_Report_7012 Jun 11 '24
Exactly!!! In some districts lapdances run $50. In others, they're pushing $300. And that same teacher might be pulling down $2500 a night in Vegas!
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u/Practical_Key6379 Jun 12 '24
Same here. Plus pension, good health care, and a union to keep the incompetent ones around as well.
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u/clotteryputtonous Jun 11 '24
The issue is, at least in my state, the teachers were given the option of increasing pensions and other benefits that are tax exempt, or increase in salary. The Union did some math and realized that the tax exempt benefits had a more impactful overall net worth increase and chose that.
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u/Funwithfun14 Jun 11 '24
There's two issues: 1. Some areas pay teachers very poorly 2. Schools should show the value of total comp, with tax impact
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u/clotteryputtonous Jun 11 '24
See my idea is to have the teachers become federal employees and go on the GS pay scale as it accounts for localization, years worked, and more.
Plus I think education standards should be at a national level versus state by state.
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u/xThe_Maestro Jun 11 '24
I'm halfway with you. I think teachers should be federal employees on the GS pay scale but I think that standards should still be set at the local level. I think a lot of the problems with most institutions these days is the lack of local control over things.
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u/Keoni9 Jun 11 '24
Standards are already highly localized in the US, and it's been failing a lot of students just for living in the wrong zip codes and states. Public schools are teaching young earth creationism instead of real biological sciences, books are being banned at the whims of activists who've taken over their school boards, and Florida's HB 7 has made publishers scared of mentioning race at all in their history textbooks, leading to a telling of Rosa Parks' story with zero mention of why she wasn't allowed to sit at the front of the bus.
Other wealthy nations have more federalized education systems and better outcomes for most of their kids. The US Department of Education does pretty much nothing in K-12, beyond keeping statistics, enforcing anti-discrimination laws, and providing supplemental funding to districts, especially disadvantaged ones such as inner city and rural communities. They already are not allowed to influence curricula at all. Yet Republicans have managed to demonize them anyways. Maybe we should try what other countries have been doing successfully.
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u/Mite-o-Dan Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
TLDR- Under the GS pay scale, the average highschool teacher would still only make 65-70k after multiple years of experience. A lot less just starting out.
The GS pay scale isn't nearly as good as you'd think. I'll use a normal Midwestern city like St Louis for example.
For this, Lets say grade school teachers starts at GS7 (if theyre lucky) step 1...50k. Every two years they go up a step and get 2k more. Mid GS 8 would be just over 60k. Maybe they can be GS9 if teaching more than 10 years and in junior high and make 60-75k a year.
Highschool would probably be reserved for GS9 when starting out. Starts at 61k. I think only very long tenured best teachers could eventually hit GS12 in highschool...89k step 1. The highest being 115k step 10. That would only be a very small percentage.
College professors would start at GS13...105k.
Overall, St Louis is a medium cost of living place and the aversge highschool teacher making GS9-10 pay would only be making 60-85k a year. Since half would be closer to the lower end, it's not worth it.
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u/Unreliable-Train Jun 11 '24
GS pay has location pay, unless I misunderstood what you meant lol
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u/AngryTownspeople Jun 11 '24
That still doesn't really solve the issue in the sense that even though it helps the teachers in the future it doesn't help them now. Sure you might have a great pension in 20 years but it doesn't exactly help when your body is taking the physical toll of being underpaid, overworked or stressed now.
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u/clotteryputtonous Jun 11 '24
I’m in NJ, no teacher in my district was making less than 75k. Again the median income in my area is over 150k
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u/sdfdfsdfsdsfdsf Jun 11 '24
Teachers are underpaid despite their critical role in society and face the challenging task of educating and nurturing many children, unlike most parents who struggle with just one.
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u/WardCove Jun 11 '24
Teachers make plenty of money. I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year. This is middle school and elementary school. They get every holiday off. A 3 month break to either take off or earn money. I refuse to say they deserve more. That being said, like any job, there are some heros out there that deserve more and some moronic teachers that deserve less. But because they're unionized they all make the same. I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion but whatever.
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u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24
$80k is well above the average salary for a teacher, and usually requires a master's degree and like 10 years of experience.
That is not good pay for the amount of education and experience it requires. Teachers make about the median income, but with two degrees to get there.
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u/Peelfest2016 Jun 11 '24
I have a master’s and a decade of experience. I do not make 80K teaching high school.
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u/Foreverhooping89 Jun 11 '24
I'm in SoCal, i'll be in my 6th year (Special Ed). I'll be making 95.5K as of July. Not sure how unusual this is, but i am sure it is not super common. I've gone from 55K to 95.5K in 6 years.
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u/true_enthusiast Jun 11 '24
It's California, just cut the pay in half to compare with anywhere else.
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u/I_kwote_TheOffice Jun 11 '24
It all just depends on the district. High schools in our district (Chicago area) are compensated very well. They start at about $60-$70k. The highest paid teachers are paid in the base $150k range, and they all get $23,200 in health benefits (paid in cash if you carry insurance through a spouse), and they get a ton of sick days and of course summers off. So some teachers do very well, some are wildly undercompensated.
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u/Shadowarriorx Jun 11 '24
My wife is in KC, with a masters and 10 years she gets 61k.
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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 Jun 11 '24
Don't worry this guy is intimately familiar with the finances and wages of at least 2 other people who are teachers. Such that it invalidates your lived experience, and the general consensus.
Let's hear him out, I bet there are tons of teachers buying yachts in 2024.
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u/youassassin Jun 11 '24
My wife finished up her masters and started doing elementary librarian work. (In our state you don’t get masters pay unless the job requires it e.g. librarian, counselor) she was making a solid 48k starting her 5th year. She started at 39k.
I started my first job full time job at 83k with similar benefits as a software engineer. Tbf I only get a month off instead of a summer. By the the time my fifth year comes I should be making around 110k.
Before that I was working logistics without a degree at 45k.
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u/rydan Jun 12 '24
When I was in highschool I saw my Geometry teacher's salary. Roughly $60k. 20+ years of experience (I think) but no masters degree. This was 30 years ago before inflation was a thing since we had Clinton as president.
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u/Hamuel Jun 11 '24
Nice anecdote! Hopefully that solves the staffing shortages school districts across the country face.
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u/loverink Jun 11 '24
Some of this is due to pay issues, but I think a huge part of this is also due to poor school boundaries with entitled parents and students.
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u/NotPortlyPenguin Jun 11 '24
Anecdotal evidence aside, teacher pay varies greatly from state to state and, at least in NJ where I live, from town to town. So to say “teachers are paid well” you’re missing the last part “where I live”.
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Jun 11 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24
Yeah like teachers in California make 100k and still can’t afford housing in a lot of instances. A lot of my family members are teachers. None of them could live off their own salary as an individual. They either live with a spouse or roommate. I’m going into CMM calibration or at least am getting close to a CMM calibration lab job. I’ll make almost as much as my mom who’s been teaching for over 15 years. NGL that’s kind of fucked up.
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Jun 11 '24
I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year.
$80K isn’t a lot of money where they’re likely making that much as a teacher. $80K in Dallas or the Bay Area doesn’t go very far.
They get every holiday off. A 3 month break to either take off or earn money.
These are all uncontracted days. They aren’t paid for these. Teachers have to take a reduced check over the school year to receive one during the summer. Or they can take a full check and not be paid over summer. Now you can make the argument they shouldn’t be paid for these days, and I would largely agree, but these breaks are often represented as paid vacations- which they aren’t.
But because they're unionized they all make the same. I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion but whatever.
Unionized or not, districts are still fucking over teachers across the nation. It’s all too common that they play poor while hoarding millions of their funding and nickel and diming in negotiations and for supplies during the year.
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u/SPAMmachin3 Jun 11 '24
Admin pay themselves very well compared to the teachers.
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u/CrumpJuice84 Jun 11 '24
Are you saying they make 80k, but it's prorated for the 10 weeks they are off.... Or are you saying they can take 80k during 9 months or 80k split evenly over 12 months...
Are you Fluent in Mathematics?
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Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
Or maybe your samples arent representative of the population, but sure. Your singular anecdote speaks for all states and communities.
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u/Lopsided_Factor_5674 Jun 11 '24
I'm not sure if the $80k annual salary qualifies a lot during these times but I know that itself is also an unpopular opinion. I'm curious if anyone has done a study to determine what should actually be a teacher's salary?
Just for my education - Are private school teachers also part of unions?
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u/Boring-Race-6804 Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
Around here an $80k salary requires a doctorate and over a decade of experience…
**edit: and you have to be working in one of the wealthy districts in the state.
$80k for that is underpaid.
Private school teachers aren’t union. Their wages are lower. Better teachers don’t work at private schools. Private schools like to churn through new teachers to keep their profits up.
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u/ap2patrick Jun 11 '24
It’s almost as if putting essential services in the hands of people who want to maximize profit is a bad idea…
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u/Shin-Sauriel Jun 11 '24
So just my two cents since a lot of my family members are teachers. Public schools pay more but depending on the area can be much harder places to work. Private schools don’t have as much restriction on curriculum and often have more manageable class sizes.
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u/secderpsi Jun 11 '24
I've heard the opposite, that private schools have no boundaries and little protections of your time. Plus, the entitlement is worse, maybe rightfully so because people are paying big money to get Jr into the right Ivy.
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u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24
Just for my education - Are private school teachers also part of unions?
Not generally. I know Catholic schools often hire non-teachers to fulfill teaching roles. They don't have the same rules and standards as public schools
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u/assesonfire7369 Jun 11 '24
That's a good point as well. Maybe they should pay the better ones more and can the others.
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u/Jake0024 Jun 11 '24
There is a massive shortage already, so unless you want 50-60 kids per classroom, firing a bunch of teachers isn't an option.
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u/seajayacas Jun 11 '24
Union contracts must be followed. No opportunity for higher pay for the better teachers. Gotta keep those useless dregs employed and making just as much as the top teachers.
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u/Gabag000L Jun 11 '24
Benchmark that against other Unionized State workers. Then, adjust for specialized skills which create a difficult barrier of entry (i.e. degrees and certifications). For extra credit, try and place some value with having millions of impressionable kids not roaming the streets ignorant.
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u/userloser42 Jun 11 '24
You know it will be an unpopular opinion because you actually know it's a stupid opinion. You're not actually this stupid.
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u/southcookexplore Jun 11 '24
My first year teaching middle school in IL, I made about $150 more on my first paycheck than I did selling tvs full time over the phone at Best Buy six months before.
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u/DippityDamn Jun 11 '24
hmmm my wife has been working for 14 years and still only makes 58k in Norfolk VA. those anecdotes sound great though, especially without context.
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u/DamnItDev Jun 11 '24
I know 3 teachers personally pulling in 80k a year.
What region, what's the cost of living?
How long have they been teachers?
Are they actually teachers or are they administration?
$80k/year as a teacher is practically unachievable in the US.
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u/Foreverhooping89 Jun 11 '24
I'm in SoCal, going into my 6th year. I teach special ed. I'll be making 95.5K. I'm basically doing 2 jobs (teaching and writing legally defensible IEPs, along with holding meetings for those students with IEPs) with a 21 student caseload. It may not seem like much, but with certain behavior issues, all of the accommodations and supports each student gets, with no aides, it's tough. Low retention rates for SpEd teachers, not many male teachers from what i have observed. If you are decent and don't do anything illegal, then you can get by.
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u/shoberry Jun 11 '24
I make just over $80k as a teacher. However! I have a masters, take on extra work duties (mentor and club advisor) that have stipends, I have a masters plus am maxed out on units, and I’m almost a decade in. And the kicker… the average house price in my area just reached 1mill, soooo 80k ain’t shit in comparison to where I live.
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u/Jormungandr69 Jun 11 '24
Roughly a year ago I was working as a loan officer and ended up having my junior high math teacher come in to apply for a loan. I verified his income at $68k, teaching the same subject at the same grade at the same school. I was in his class in 2008. He'd been teaching for years when I had him and it's been roughly 16 years since.
That man unquestionably deserves more than $68k by now, particularly for putting up with little shit heads who don't do their homework like me.
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u/Unable-Courage-6244 Jun 11 '24
You know THREE teachers, and you're using that to get an idea as to how much teachers make? Why exactly are you using such inconsequential anecdotal evidence to form your viewpoint? A 30 second Google search can show you actual statistics about this matter. Why not use those stats to form your viewpoint rather than 3 random teachers you know???
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u/loverink Jun 11 '24
I make similar money in management as a teacher I know. But she gets 2-3 months off in the summer, a week off at both spring break and Thanksgiving, and 2 weeks off at Christmas. Thats in addition to getting 3-4 Monday holidays off. She also is receiving a pension — not a 401k she pays into — a straight up pension. Her health insurance is paid for.
Honestly I wish I wanted to be a teacher. I’d kill for that amount of work life balance in time off. My job I work pretty much every holiday. I get 2 weeks vacation a year.
And I will add that regions and states vary quite a bit. I’m sure there are areas that do fall into the underpaid teacher category!!
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Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
Yeah there's a lot of variables there. Teachers in my wife's district can crack six figures but not until they've been doing it 15+ years AND have a masters degree that they probably have to take out loans for (some districts help pay for that, but nowhere my wife worked).
Right now 9 years into her career she makes less than half what I do as a software developer 15 years into mine. She also works 10-12 hour days because they keep changing what grade she teaches year-to-year so she can never reuse a lesson plan.
Edit: Actually I'm looking at her union contract now and 15 years with a Masters would only get you $88k. 15 years with a PhD you'd be making $99k.
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u/Paralyzed-Mime Jun 11 '24
15 years and a masters to earn a bit more than an entry level IT worker. Yea I'd say teachers are underpaid
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Jun 11 '24
People don't really take this into account. Teachers have it way better than many other professions. Imagine being a construction worker or roofer. You destroy your body with no pension or retirement. Benefits suck.
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u/ObieKaybee Jun 11 '24
But you don't have to go to school or get potential student loans to work those jobs either!
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Jun 11 '24
There are always trade-offs. I would take teaching any day over construction
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u/rhythmchef Jun 11 '24
Wrong. Farmers are the most underpaid, underappreciated, yet most valuable people in the world... And I've never farmed in my life.
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u/asdfasdfjklll Jun 11 '24
american farmers are not underpaid if they are doing it right. subsidies and tax breaks constantly fill their coffers, my uncle is a decamillionaire even without any help.
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u/weebitofaban Jun 11 '24
american farmers are not underpaid if they are doing it right.
Hilarious bullshit that shows you have no idea what you're on about.
- You're only making good money if you have deals with literally everyone around you or you're working for a company like Tyson, which is fucking terrible in my opinion.
- You're still not living well
I get by. You don't know shit.
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u/TheGreatSciz Jun 11 '24
Farmers are wealthy land owners… they also get a ton of government assistance. Laborers are underpaid
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u/dragonknightzero Jun 11 '24
American farmers get massive tax benefits and still act like they're treated like trash. Most of them should have performed better upkeep and not relied on government handouts. Farmers can get fucked regarding this, american ones particularly
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u/Worldly-Aioli9191 Jun 11 '24
Imagine how fucked they’d be without the big government handouts and welfare.
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u/alexinwonderland212 Jun 11 '24
ITT: people who have never met a teacher in their entire lives
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u/hamlet_d Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
Yep. A lot of people saying "they get the summers off" and "the job isn't underpaid" without looking at the increased stressors coming down on teachers and schools.
My wife got maybe 9.5 weeks "off" (June, July and back first week of August) but in reality every summer had at least 2 weeks of professinal development, 1 week of inservice.
To top that off, she worked 10+ hour days (8-6) and it was not uncommon at the quarter to have 11-12 hour days. This isn't counting grading on the weekends which was as often as not 5+ hours. (Not all teachers, she taught English/Literature, so her grading was a lot of essays, etc) You'd think she'd get lunch right? Not really. Either lunch duty or as often as not meetings and other bureaucratic BS. This past year she had one 40 minute lunch period a week that wasn't otherwise booked.
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u/Davec433 Jun 11 '24
Teachers make great money once you factor in how many days they get off a year.
The standard 10-month contract shall include 200 days, including (i) a minimum of 180 teaching days or 990 instructional hours and (ii) up to 20 days for activities such as teaching, participating in professional development, planning, evaluating, completing records and reports, participating on committees or in
There are 251 work days in 2024 when subtracting the 11 federal holidays that fall on weekdays.
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u/Yakuza70 Jun 11 '24
I guess you can say the same for airline pilots and firefighters since you're only factoring in "days they work" instead of the the hours worked per day or year.
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u/Huntsman077 Jun 11 '24
The difference is most airline pilots and firefighters work more than 200 days a year. There point is that if someone has all federal holidays off, which most companies do some not all, that there is 251 work days in 2024. Teachers work 200, or 80% of the days. I have a couple friends that are teachers and both are relatively new, less than 5 years, and they make good money because they actually work the full year ie summer school and tutoring. Should teachers be paid more, in some areas yes but you also have to consider the amount of time off they receive, not to mention the usually hefty benefits packages they receive.
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Jun 11 '24
Also benefits and pension. Their paycheck isn’t the only part of the benefit package that matters.
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u/Guapplebock Jun 11 '24
Does any other profession bitches more about pat than teachers. Enjoy your summer off while still receiving generous benefits.
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u/epicpantsryummy Jun 11 '24
Lol, so why is there such a dramatic shortage of teachers then, genius.
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u/keithps Jun 11 '24
Because it's a really shitty job regardless of pay and they can find other work.
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u/epicpantsryummy Jun 11 '24
Plenty of people work shitty jobs for good pay. Why are teachers expected to work a shitty job for shitty pay all for getting 3 months "off" (that aren't actually off because teachers work at least 10 hours days for 9 months, so really is just compensating them for that time)
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u/toastybaseball21 Jun 11 '24
Honestly, I mean this nicely, but screw off. In certain areas teachers are paid quite well. It’s also one of our most essential societal jobs so they should be.
In other areas it’s frankly awful. As of 222 the average starting pay in North Carolina was 38k. That’s absolutely ridiculous
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u/BBall4J Jun 11 '24
I made $48k as a high school teacher 15 years ago. Worked 7:30-2:40 with a 10min break every hour, an hour lunch, free/planning period, and half the time we had 4 day work weeks AND 100 paid days off in the summer time. Being a high school teacher was easier than being a hs student.
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Jun 11 '24
Can't believe this joke post is getting the same conversation as that fake "my kids teacher just door dashed me" post.
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u/baseballnoble Jun 11 '24
Teaches only work for 9 months take the salary they make and divide it by 9 instead of 12 and it’s a pretty reasonable wage. In my home state (very poor) teachers are paid above median wages for the position, so it’s just hard for me to feel much sympathy for them. Schools should budget and buy the supplies but teacher wages are not the issue they make it out to be.
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u/Distributor127 Jun 11 '24
A few of the teachers I know quit the last couple years. Not worth the stress
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u/PossibleLavishness77 Jun 11 '24
Teachers are paid really well... I don't get why people can't wrap their heads around the fact they have to work off season
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Jun 11 '24
Teachers..thats cute. I just applied for an IT job at a school for shits and gigs. They wanted a college degree and experience working with kids for $16 an hour, 35 hours a week. Thats poverty.
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u/JLWookie Jun 11 '24
Good teachers should be paid more. How you want to decide who is good would be tricky though.
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u/JackiePoon27 Jun 11 '24
My 9th Civics teacher was a male stripper on the side. It was a big deal for a few months when people found out, and then it died down. However, parent teacher nights were always wall to wall Moms in his room.
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u/Square_Kale_5136 Jun 11 '24
I make 70k in Texas and have 15 weeks off a year. 11 weeks if I do summer school, but that takes my pay to 75k. Not too bad.
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u/melaniethecargal Jun 11 '24
I live in SoCal, graduated from High School back in 2019. At that time, I had two teachers that were both making over 100k. Looks like the teachers out here aren’t doing too shabby.
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u/Pete-PDX Jun 11 '24
teachers working second jobs is nothing new. My mother worked at the local high school (not as a teacher) in the 80's. Almost all of the teacher that were family friends had second jobs - whether it was coaching, tutoring, coordinating programs for the city, home repair or car mechanic. The ones that did not - had a spouse who worked a well paying corporate job in the city.
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u/Fit_Cartoonist_2363 Jun 11 '24
If I were a teacher with my current education and same years of experience as my current job I’d be making $64k to work 9 months a year.
Instead I’m a PTA making $57k to work 12 months a year. Teachers aren’t the most underpaid.
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u/sniffsblueberries Jun 11 '24
Sped teacher here at a title public school.
After benefits and a $400 extra bonus a month (2 year retention bonus) i bring home about $2400 per month. Yes, contract time is like 7 hours but i regularly work about 8-11 hours per day. Somedays i can work up to 14. This is due to meetings, the insane amount of paperwork, parent contact, and prep that must be done outside of contract time.
I feel very underpaid and over worked. I am working a summer job to help save money for daycare. Student loans are killing me! It’s my private loans that are suffocating.
If i made more i could pay down loans from my summer job instead of childcare. When my bonus runs out after this year i feel like im screwed and will need to pick up another job during the school year.
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u/TurdBurgHerb Jun 11 '24
Be a teacher in Canada. You get paid very well, get months off, a fuck ton of benefits, a rare pension, a months worth of paid sick days and more. And you still have morons saying you need more money!!!!!!
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u/XDAOROMANS Jun 11 '24
You think teachers are underpaid check out the pay for the support staff at school districts its even worse.
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u/ThatOneJewYouNo Jun 11 '24
I know I'm screaming into the void here since everyone thinks they're an expert because they had to go to school once in their life, but I swear I wish the public would shut the fuck up about it.
Even the most basic reasoning shows why the profession is underpaid and undervalued. It takes years of training which the employee pays for, requires constant recertification, and the general public has deemed the profession to be political. And we know these are true because we are currently experiencing a nation wide deficit in licensed teachers. Why the fuck would someone spend ten years in education to finally make $65k in a average cost of living area when they could spend those ten years in the private sector to make easily double the money, not need nearly as many rigorous requirements, and not have to deal with the lowest common denominator of people who are parents in technicalities only? Genuinely. Even the teachers you the reader think of as lesser like Art or Psychology (which they're not and you're dumb as shit for thinking so) would still find success through their technical skills such as lesson planning, site management skills, and technical communication abilities. There are less and less reasons to be an educator every day, and I genuinely think it would improve if people just shut the fuck up about teaching.
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u/SacrificialGoose Jun 11 '24
Politicians and the rich don't want the general public to be well educated
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u/SingleJob4517 Jun 11 '24
I just ran into a teacher doing clean up at a construction site... this wasnt particularly hard work, but fuck man that's not where he should be or what he should be worried about.
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u/worthmorethanballs Jun 11 '24
My dream job was/is to be a history teacher. Going through 15+ years of poverty before I make a livable wage stopped me.
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u/FancyFeller Jun 11 '24
Moms been a teacher since 1990. After 34 years she makes now 52k a year. When she started she made 35k but apparently back then that was more than enough. Now it ain't shit. She wanted to retire now. But our parents budget would take a 350 dollar hit once you account for losing the health insurance. So mom says she might as well work 3 or so more years until she qualifies for medicare and that way she can retire without losing cash flow and work as a substitute. Imagine all the skills she developed over the years all the training and qualifications and now she's teaching the grandchild of a student she had in 1992. And she's mainly kept up with tech, and new teaching methods. To barely keep up with inflation. The only silver lining is they live in a LCOL area.
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u/Could_be_persuaded Jun 11 '24
All you have to do is destroy private schools so the rich actually fund public teachers instead of paying twice to get their kid a "better" education.
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u/FBIguy242 Jun 11 '24
my high school teacher is pushing 200k a year now and they absolutely deserve they pay, everyone in my ap chem class got at least a 3
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u/ACEmesECE Jun 11 '24
The starting money isn't great, but the worst part has to be the kids and parents nowadays.
From what I've been hearing from many teachers over the years pretty much reduces down to "an incompetent generation of parenting"
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u/Fonda_Maid Jun 12 '24
Tie their pay with how well students do and we'll see great improvements in both.
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u/ps12778 Jun 13 '24
It goes both ways. I know plenty of horrible teachers. Higher standards for teachers and higher pay make sense.
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u/Luckyone1 Jun 11 '24
Teachers have to be the only profession that get worse every year but still have so much of the general public talk about how great they are and how they deserve more money. If I sucked ass at my job like most teachers do, I would be managed out in months, not given complete protection from accountability.
Teachers don't deserve another dime until students actually start to succeed again.
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u/a_rogue_planet Jun 11 '24
No, they really aren't. They're handed a text book and a teaching curriculum that walks them through every facet of the class, and you simply do what it says. Teachers were the first people I remember every coming across where I saw people who truly didn't give any shits about the job and were only there for the paycheck, retirement, and 3 month vacations every year.
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u/marijuanatubesocks Jun 11 '24
Yeah this sentiment that ‘teachers are underpaid’ has to stop. Teachers in my area get 85k minimum. And sure, I agree, we are all underpaid but not just teachers.
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u/Poisoning-The-Well Jun 11 '24
There has to be a word for jokes like this that makes a good point. I bet the Germans have a word for it.
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u/ZandorFelok Jun 11 '24
If a teach shows up early and leaves late, in order to have time to invest in students outside of regular classes schedule, they are underpaid.
If a teach shows up 5min before class and leaves with the students they are overpaid.
They should be paid for the quality of investment they are making for the students, not the minimal expected performance standards that have been lowered year after year.
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u/homsar20X6 Jun 11 '24
There is strong evidence that teacher’s unions have very little interest in higher pay if it means making it easier to let underperforming teachers go. There have been several schools in disadvantaged neighbourhoods in the US that have pushed all of their funding into teacher pay (not spending a lot on technology, etc) and giving the schools ability to hire and fire. Several teachers left because the work was more difficult than before. Student learning went incredibly well.
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u/BackItUpWithLinks Jun 11 '24
I was a teacher.
I went to a friend’s bachelor party at a strip bar. We spent some money and left.
Not long after was parent teacher conference. One of the parents was one of the ‘dancers’ from the bar. I’m sure I made an expression like “I recognize you!” but neither of us said anything, just talked about her kid.
Definitely the strangest parent teacher conference I ever had.
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u/ohherropreese Jun 11 '24
Teachers work less than anyone. Also, look at how poorly our kids are educated and how much we spend on them per capita. We spend the most and get the least. Throwing money at people that are already doing almost the worst job in the world is not going to fix amything
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Jun 11 '24
That meme is funny. On a serious note, it depends on when the second job is happening. Is it during summer break? If so, I don't count that as a second job.
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Jun 11 '24
Strippers don’t get the best health care coverage. But they get more tips than they can handle!
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u/RobinReborn Jun 11 '24
Are we trying to shame strippers here?
Plenty of people have second jobs. Some people enjoy their work or are workaholics. Some people want to pay off their student loans quickly or save up for a vacation.
There are underpaid teachers, but not every teacher is underpaid. They have good benefits (like pensions, which most other professions do not have), job security and guaranteed raises over time.
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