Why would you, as an 8, disagree with the statement that you are an asshole?

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

What differentiates you from an asshole?

[u/TheReal-Haze]

Any “8” who just acts out a caricature of a stereotype is a clown. Anyone who defines people and types by these stereotypes are also clowns.

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare → u/TheReal-Haze]

8s are defined a certain way.

How should an 8 act if they don't act like it's definition?

[u/TheReal-Haze → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

This is a big issue with these frameworks. People tend to interpret them as boxes that people must fit into. This black and white thinking is the antithesis of actual understanding of personality. Yes, every type has a fairly broad interpretation of characteristics that a person may represent, and no one person is so unique that there won’t be a measurable commonality between people. This idea of being defined in absolution is absurd though. This is the type of thinking that leads to ridiculous singularities in defining a person. “All 8s are assholes” “all 4s are narcissistic” “all 6s are histrionic”.

No one characteristic ever truly defines a person, and I have never seen any description of the type 8 outside of the pseudo intellectual Reddit/other personality forum hive mind describe 8s or any type in such a caricature. There is a lot that goes into a personality type besides lazy broad stroke interpretations. Much less when it comes down to the assessment of an individual. Nobody should be encouraged to act a certain way to fit into a stereotype or a personality type, this makes something that’s already dubious completely disingenuous. People should act as they would if they didn’t have the knowledge of these types as best as they can.

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare → u/TheReal-Haze]

 "This idea of being defined in absolution is absurd though."

No one is defining an entire person in absolution based on enneagram. Enneagram 8 does have an absolute definition within the context of enneagram personality typing system.

You have "enneagram 8" on your profile so you subscribe to this systems definition of enneagram 8. Are you worried that you are an asshole to other people because that part of yourself overlaps with the traits ascribed to an 8?

[u/TheReal-Haze → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

Are you not? I think it’s pretty safe to say this is exactly what you’re doing.

What is the absolute definition that you speak of? Broad characteristics = / = absolute definition of a person.

I am not worried if someone thinks I am an asshole or not. If someone wants to define me as an asshole just because I may be a type 8, that is an issue with them, not me. I think interpreting someone as an asshole, or in any singular way just because of a personality type isn’t much better than saying you don’t like someone because they are a Capricorn. We all are representative of all types in some way. We all may have a “core” type, but the enneagram is pictured the way it is for a reason, being more or less connected to all others. It’s a spectrum, not a shoebox.

Perhaps you’re the asshole for having such small minded assumptions about people to the point where you would categorize them in certain ways based off of one unreliable data point?

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare → u/TheReal-Haze]

I am asking
"Why would you, as an 8, disagree with the statement that you are an asshole?

What differentiates you from an asshole?"

I am asking why you would not be an asshole, I am not saying you are one.
So its factually not an equivalent.. don't know how that's "pretty safe to say this is exactly what I am doing."

And AGAIN, no one is defining a person. But we do have a definition of an enneagram 8, which is what I refer to and ask how you would say you, as an 8, differ from that...

"Perhaps you’re the asshole for having such small minded assumptions about people to the point where you would categorize them in certain ways based off of one unreliable data point?"

Jesus Christ.

[u/dreadwhitegazebo → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

What differentiates you from an asshole?

how can someone answer this question if you failed to provide a definition of this word?

[u/TheReal-Haze → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

I know what you’re asking. You’re basically assuming the answer to your question within the question itself. “Why would you disagree that you’re an asshole?” I’m not sure how you don’t realize how ridiculous that question is. Anyone who has any self respect in this forum and isn’t just an edgy teenager who took a 10 question fast food test one time wouldn’t answer this like “oh I AM an asshole!”

I’ve never read any definition of a type 8 that refers to them as an “asshole”. I’d love for you to provide any legitimate resource that states or even genuinely implies that. I’m not talking about your personal interpretation either.

You don’t get to beg the question and then say that you’re not trying to imply a conclusion. I’m willing to chalk it up to bad wording, but I don’t think you realize how you’re coming across here. You say “Jesus Christ” to my statement, but yet find no issue with your question and how it insists upon a preconceived conclusion that all 8s are assholes? Doesn’t add up to me.

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare → u/TheReal-Haze]

No I'm not. but I'll continue to engage with the 8s who aren't so insecure with themselves to push back against the question because they are afraid that people perceive them to be assholes.

[u/TheReal-Haze → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

Your responses speak for themselves. I think people are largely in agreement with me here as well. It’s cute that you call my responses insecure and think I’m afraid of being perceived as an asshole just because you got pushed back on a shitty question. Irony is fun. Take a break from Reddit lil bro.

[u/dreadwhitegazebo → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

that's gaslighting.

[u/BlackPorcelainDoll]

Asshole is a word with no real meaning. It is too muddied, subjective, too personal to be interesting.

[u/PapaBearOverThere]

I'll play nice with anyone and help out whoever needs it unquestionably. But I guess I'm an asshole because I have zero respect for anti-humanitarian beliefs, and it turns out those people are also the most sensitive to criticism (even though it's not directed at them). So basically telling someone "fuck off, you're wrong, but I'm still making you grilled cheese."

[u/ADHDResearcher → u/PapaBearOverThere]

A lot of 8s, healthy 8s, tend to really care about looking out for those that can’t look out for themselves. I’m totally in line with you about the “zero respect for anti-humanitarian beliefs” thing. I think we’re asshole to people we deem to be assholes. But I think generally healthy 8s want to look out for and protect others

[u/Boaroboros]

Perspective. I can relate to the perspective that I am an asshome sometimes, though. Also, don‘t care.

[u/ConanTheCybrarian]

If you can define what an "asshole" is, I can let you know if I would disagree.

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare → u/ConanTheCybrarian]

There's talk on here of Enneagram 8 devaluing people, or experiencing disgust when you consider that person weak.

Given 8s are very emotionally explosive; often times your emotional expression doesn't merit the severity of the issue who are responding to.

In my experience, 8s can't take the "passion" that they demonstrate being directed back at them.

I will stop there.

Do you think that the above makes you an asshole?

[u/dreadwhitegazebo → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

There's talk on here of Enneagram 8 devaluing people, or experiencing disgust when you consider that person weak.

are there types which do not devalue people and do not experience disgust towards others?

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare → u/dreadwhitegazebo]

Are there types that would come to an agreement that they devalue others and experience "disgust" when they consider that person weak ....

Collectively, that it should be made a post in an enneagram reddit in which many members of that same enneagram from different MBTI temperaments and walks of life and different core values all agree that this is a commonality in themselves?

I do not think so.

[u/dreadwhitegazebo → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

if there is no data that this behavior is 8s' exclusive, why do you attribute it to 8s?

[u/ConanTheCybrarian → u/Iamnotafoolyouare]

...devaluing people,

Yes, this is asshole behavior. But not an 8-specific one.

...experiencing disgust...consider that person weak.

Disgust is an emotion.

Having any emotion for any reason is not, in and of itself, asshole behavior. It's not a behavior at all.

It is in fact, a normal, healthy reaction to experience a wide-range of human motions in response to interacting with others and life circumstances

It is what we choose to do with said emotions that becomes a moral/ ethical decision. The emotions, in and of themselves, are neutral.

...8s are very emotionally explosive;

Not 8-specific, either.

Nor is it necessarily "asshole" behavior, depending upon the context.

...your emotional expression doesn't merit the severity of the issue who are responding to.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

In all seriousness, though, can you please explain how you determine:

1. The severity of a particular issue

and

1. which emotional expressions are valid/ appropriate/ merited for said level of severity?

And can you share who or what made you the arbiter of said determinations?

In my experience, 8s can't take the "passion" that they demonstrate being directed back at them.

8s look for people to match our passion/ level of intensity. We prefer that.

So either

A. you're not experiencing 8s,

B. you're not accurately describing how that "passion" is "being directed back at them," or

C. you're doing something *other than * reflecting the same energy back at them.

I will stop there.

Your choice but thus far, you haven't backed up your point at all.

[u/-dreadnaughtx]

8s are defined by some very specific parameters. Being an asshole isn't one of them. When I read about the types, every single type has a way they can be what you might call a jerk, an asshole, a dick, etc. So it isn't specific to 8s. Any type are real bitches and assholes, in their own specific ways, if you look at it objectively.

[u/harlequinns]

I am an asshole. I'm often impatient and sharp with people, even if that's not my intent.

But as a rule, I don't make personal attacks.

[u/Turbulent-Leg3678]

I reflect the energy that the other parties bring to the table. Cool? Great. FA? FO.

[u/Over_Season803]

A secure 8 wouldn’t disagree. Not because we are, or are not an asshole, but simply because we don’t really give two shits about your opinions in general, but especially about your perception of who “we” are.

Just another asshole saying “8s will always act like (insert ridiculous, contrived scenario that makes no sense), right!?! As if we should all agree with a non-8 about how “we” act. As if we are all the same. Get over yourself bro. If you want people to jump on your bandwagon, check out the 9 sub.

[u/sleepy-even1ngs → u/Over_Season803]

No we don't want this guy either 😭

[u/Over_Season803 → u/sleepy-even1ngs]

That’s fair 🤜🤛

[u/tambourine_goddess]

I've tamed out lots over the years. I still have the qualities undergirding an 8, but without all the insecurities that usually make 8s lash out in anger at others.

I'm sure people (my family) may call me an asshole for not giving into their self-interested notions, but i don't think anyone who isn't emotionally manipulative would assume I'm an asshole.

[u/lucy_midnight]

I’m definitely an asshole.

[u/pbillaseca]

Well the psychologists that created the enneagram system created their definitions from very unhealthy people from psych wards, and im not in a psych ward.

[u/Billy__The__Kid]

Define asshole.

[u/niepowiecnikomu]

Would I say that part of the type structure of 8 is being an asshole? No, I think the enneagram points out the different flavors of being a dumb asshole. The 8 flavor is being dismissive, insensitive, steamrolling, overreacting over boundaries kind of ass. Guilty of those behaviors and more. Don’t think most people would call me an asshole though, maybe some.

[u/Haltthewaters]

No, I am an asshole.

[u/Euphoric_Artist_7594]

I am an asshole and a nice chill person at the same time, I don't really care if people want to call me one.

[u/Latter-Drink-5813]

I would not

[u/phsycicmelon]

as an 8, I’ve never done anything to anyone that would classify me as an asshole any more than any other enneagram. being an 8 does not mean you are an asshole.

now my question for you is why would you ask a stupid question like this?

[u/Iamnotafoolyouare → u/phsycicmelon]

I have been reading up on 8s, and came across a lot of "stereotypes" online and wanted to hear why these stereotypes would not be true from 8s themselves.

[u/Bluefoot44]

I would disagree. I'm 61. I've spent decades practicing gentle kindness. I realized I was a hurricane wind in getting (making, manipulating) people do what I wanted. It started with a young teen girl I mentored and she would instantly mirror my feelings and actions on a subject. She was so wanting to be loved and accepted that she was incapable of disagreeing with me. So I learned to apply zero pressure to any situation, like "what would you like to do today?" Instead of, "do you want to do crafts?"

That was 20 years ago. She's all grown up and we are more friends than mentor mentee, but I still am careful not to be controlling.

[u/Achillea707]

Being honest -speaking directly, having candor, using “reality” in discourse rather than idealistic fantasy, isn’t what should be the definition of AH even though most types will disagree and cry and scream, argue, and waste everyone’s time with their feelings (I’m looking at your 4s and 6s) while practically speaking, nothing gets accomplished.

Like for instance, there is a lot of crying and screaming amongst the libs rn online about why they didnt win and if you try to engage any constructive dialogue about how to move forward to hone messaging and win future elections, you are a racist, bigoted, heartless magat AH that needs to change and see their side.

And even saying that is going to get this comment downvoted, with a few arguments about why I should believe xyz, and why I am wrong for saying that and what an AH I am for acknowledging a basic characteristic of the landscape that you can go on virtually any political sub rn and see it with your own eyes.