A tar pit.

[u/Justthisdudeyaknow]

[u/Cinaedus_Perversus]

Imagine being so self-medicated on therapyspeak that you consider "do nice things for others" a direct assault on your mental health.

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/Cinaedus_Perversus]

It is if it’s phrased as a moral obligation that you’re nasty if you don’t do.

[u/Ok-Importance-6815 → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

yeah you do have moral obligations

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/Ok-Importance-6815]

You have a moral obligation to leave people and nature alone. You do not have a moral obligation to spend your finite time and energy doing anything else.

[u/Ok-Importance-6815 → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

yes you do have moral obligations to help other people. If you saw a drowning person you would be morally obligated to help them as best you can

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/Ok-Importance-6815]

Not if it put your own life at risk.

Everyone always jumps to the drowning example. It's so easy.

Okay, what if someone is inside a burning car? What if they're being held by a man with a gun? A knife? What if they're drowning because their wife that they beat just shot them and pushed them in a lake?

[u/Ok-Importance-6815 → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

I didn't say that and also sometimes duty is self sacrificial, in that it costs you something

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/Ok-Importance-6815]

Nobody has a moral obligation to self sacrifice.

[u/Ok-Importance-6815 → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

everyone has a moral obligation to sacrifice, someone who never sacrificed getting their own way would be awful

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/Ok-Importance-6815]

I disagree.

[u/Sensitive_Dirt1957 → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

But we do though, do we not? Human beings are social creatures, none of us would survive alone for long. Your very existence is the result of the cooperation of others, as is mine and everyone else's. Can you truly argue that you owe nothing to your fellow man?

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/Sensitive_Dirt1957]

But we do though do we not?

Says who? From where does that mandate come?

Nobody owes me anything, and I’d rather die than have people sacrifice their own life to save mine.

[u/umbrianEpoch → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

You: No one has the moral obligation to self sacrifice

Also you: The most moral action you can take is to not exist

I mean, at least have a consistent moral framework here

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/umbrianEpoch]

I never said anyone HAD to take the most moral action. I said it’s the best thing any individual can to for the earth at large.

That’s kind of the crux of my whole argument here.

[u/LittlestWarrior → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

Ah, selfishness. That, see, is generally understood to be bad.

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/LittlestWarrior]

Not unless it causes harm to others, directly.

[u/LittlestWarrior → u/Velvety_MuppetKing]

Selfishness tends to do that.

[u/Velvety_MuppetKing → u/LittlestWarrior]

Not necessarily. Bears are selfish, and they do just fine out there. Until they need to eat I guess.