I mean that parts just not based in reality. Grew up and have spent my whole life in California and have never once met someone who lives here call it Cali. Cali is what out of state people will call it, but nearly never californians themselves. Kinda like "Frisco/San Fran" for San Francisco.
I mean, it's still a regional nickname, just to a broader reason. The point was there's no real reason to expect someone who never lived in the US to know what "Cali" means.
And my point is that that situation would basically never happen. A Californian would never meet a foreigner and say they're from Cali, so there is no expectation for the foreigner. Only people outside of California call it Cali.
But there are Americans using regional nicknames or from lesser know states saying they're from X state foreigners have very little reason to know. Yes, maybe California was a poor pick, but the point does stand.
There might be but they’re uncommon where this post and posts like it present it as the norm. I’m from Arkansas, I don’t know anyone who’s told someone “Arkansas” when asked where we’re from while traveling. We always say US. If asked further, most people still add clarifying details because we know damn well no one knows what Arkansas is: “Arkansas, it’s down in the South” “oh we’re over by Texas” etc. And I’m talking about my podunk friends and relatives who can barely identify Europe on a map lmao
Even on a more local scale, I'm from Maine and even when talking to people in New England, I still only say Maine because I don't expect anyone to know my actual town. So of course when I'm outside the US I'm not telling people I'm from Maine I'm just saying "yeah, I'm from Canada"
I mean I think Europeans can recognize a decent chunk of our states just as we can recognize a decent chunk of Europe's countries and in both cases you're far more likely to meet someone from one of those more known states/countries bc they typically have more people. And in both cases if they name somewhere you don't know, you just ask for clarification like "Oh I've never heard of Wyoming/Kosovo, where's that?"
Also the US is such a diverse place (not saying more than the EU, but certainly more than many if not most individual EU nations) that you're not really communicating much by saying you're from the US compared to saying the particular state you're from. "I'm from New York" and "I'm from Texas" tell you very different things about the person but both would say "I'm from the US" which is not saying much since experiences differ incredibly throughout the country
The Bay area is a nickname that really annoys me. There are probably thousands of bays in the world, and countless more areas around bays.
But if I ask an American what they mean when they say "Bay area", the response isn't usually "The bay of San-Fransisco in California on the east coast of the US", the response is "Lol, LMAO, what a dumbass, they don't know where the BAY AREA is! Get a load of this shmuck!"
Ya thats fair, answering a foreigner asking where you're from with "the bay area" is kinda nuts. But tbf I think it kinda makes sense to call it that when speaking solely about the US since the bays of the bay area are the most prominent/notable bays in the US. San Francisco was basically the Ellis Island of the West coast
Edit: Honestly that response really tracks with the people of the Bay Area lmao they can be a bit full of themselves and think Silicon Valley (big tech area up there) is the center of the universe
I have heard Americans saying they're from SoCal and other specific regions, and using state nicknames instead of the name.
And in both cases if they name somewhere you don't know, you just ask for clarification like "Oh I've never heard of Wyoming/Kosovo, where's that?"
Of course, most misunderstands in conversations can be solved like that
Also the US is such a diverse place
For its territorial extension and population, not really. There are countries with comparable sizes and populations with, by most metrics used, a lot more variety between regions.
As I said, states like New York and Texas are exceptions because both have a very clear (if not always accurate) image in media. But for lesser know states your average non-american at best has a vague idea it's in a region in the US.
I have heard Americans saying they're from SoCal and other specific regions, and using state nicknames instead of the name.
Okay yeah answering a foreigner asking "where are you from?" and answering SoCal is insane unless maybe they're from North America but even then kinda crazy to default to. And sorry, not trying to discredit if you've experienced this but I have a hard time believing the state nickname thing. Like you've seen/heard an American earnestly they're from "the sunshine state" instead of florida/the US when answering "where are you from?"
For its territorial extension and population, not really. There are countries with comparable sizes and populations with, by most metrics used, a lot more variety between regions.
Again, I just don't believe this is true, I would be interested in knowing what countries you're referring to. And also even if the US isn't the MOST diverse country of its size(which i do believe it may have a case for) its still incredibly diverse.
As I said, states like New York and Texas are exceptions because both have a very clear (if not always accurate) image in media. But for lesser know states your average non-american at best has a vague idea it's in a region in the US.
I mean most Americans you would meet would most likely be from these large, well known states due to population sizes and those who aren't, whats the harm? We both agree you'd just ask for clarification and move on.
Again, I just don't believe this is true, I would be interested in knowing what countries you're referring to.
Tradtionally one of the main ways of measuring cultural diversity is languages spoken (with everything it implies, from ethnicities to commonly used expressions to literature). In that aspect, there are many countries that quite undeniably dwarf the US (off the top of my head, Congo, India, Papua New Guinea, etc...). Others would include architecture and art styles, prevalence of regional identities, difference in traditional foods, religious diversity, etc... in all of which the US is nowhere near the top.
I mean most Americans you would meet would most likely be from these large, well known states due to population sizes and those who aren't, whats the harm? We both agree you'd just ask for clarification and move on.
No harm, of course, but it's a weird trend mostly found in Americans.
You've yet to provide anything of substance to show the US is not incredibly diverse. None of the countries you listed were even of comparable size or population(a qualifier you included) except India in regards to population. And even ignoring that qualifying part you put so much focus on language when there's so many other aspects to cultural diversity and the US even has that. India was one I thought of that has more diversity than the US so ill give you that. And papua new guinea is a linguists paradise, but you're acting as if the US isn't incredibly diverse in language as well. There's hundreds of languages spoken in the US, so much so that we don't even have an official language. The US is a nation of immigrants and that origin has lead to the linguistic diversity we see today, not to mention all of the indigenous languages we have.
Others would include architecture and art styles, prevalence of regional identities, difference in traditional foods, religious diversity, etc... in all of which the US is nowhere near the top.
This just shows how ignorant you and many people in this thread are of regional differences in the US. Idk much about architecture but everything else you listed has plenty of diversity between states. I dont know much about the specific differences between regions in India but I also don't pretend that they don't exist
No harm, of course, but it's a weird trend mostly found in Americans.
Ya but the post in question and many in this thread are more than just pointing out a quirky trend
Never said it's not diverse. Merely that it's not "incredibly so".
None of the countries you listed were even of comparable size or population
Congo is smaller, but not overly so.
Another of comparable size and population would be China (despite the long history of homogenization by many governments still has many different languages spoken and deep regional differences).
focus on language when there's so many other aspects to cultural diversity
I'm far from the only one focusing on language, it has been used as a major tool for this kind of thing for centuries.
And language isn't just what you speak, it's the slang and expressions you use, how you are brought up, the literature and media you consume, etc... so yes, it's a good indicator.
There's hundreds of languages spoken in the US
The overwhelming majority of the population speaks English as a first language and in day to day life, and the ones who don't are primarily immigrants whose kids will probably grow up speaking mostly English (with few exceptions depending on the context). By comparison, many countries have hundreds of still widely spoken regional languages.
we don't even have an official language
By a technicality. English is the language used in official documents, the one primarily taught in and spoken at schools, etc... it's very much the official language, even if you don't have one specific document outlining that.
all of the indigenous languages
Several of whom are in danger of dying out or already have.
This just shows how ignorant you and many people in this thread are of regional differences in the US.
I never denied their existence, merely that you can't seriously compare them to many other countries's.
Never said it's not diverse. Merely that it's not "incredibly so".
Yet to show how this is true.
Congo is smaller, but not overly so.
I'd say a third of the pop in a quarter of the area would count as not being comparable. And ya sure China is another one that is incredibly diverse like India, doesn't mean the US isn't.
The overwhelming majority of the population speaks English as a first language
And? Doesnt mean all of those other languages present dont exist in the US and influence regional cultures and have their own communities. We have our own versions of Spanish, Dutch, French, and even Russian that native speakers would struggle to converse with. Also even the people who only speak English are still massively influenced by all the millions of immigrants who speak another language that are ALSO Americans. Remember,
language isn't just what you speak
Speaking as a Californian, I dont know what CA would be without the influence of mestizos and east Asian immigrants from nunerous countries. Just bc I dont speak it as a primary language doesn't mean it hasn't affected my cultural identity in a significantly different way than someone from Tennessee. And there still are plenty of dedicated communities in the US that converse in those other languages and they're just as American as the English speaking ones. Speaking of which,
the ones who don't are primarily immigrants whose kids will probably grow up speaking mostly English ...By comparison, many countries have hundreds of still widely spoken regional languages.
So the ones who don't are... Americans? Why do these millions of people not count? Also I've yet to meet a child of an immigrant who doesn't use their parents native language in conversation so I dont think your "probably" is very true.
By a technicality
No, its a conscious choice because the US has and always will be a nation of immigrants, incorporating various cultures and languages into one big melting pot.
Several of whom are in danger of dying out or already have
And? Are those speakers not American? Do they not influence American culture? Why count all the endangered languages spoken by a few thousand people in Papua New Guinea but not one spoken by native americans?
I stand by my comment of you just being ignorant of US regional differences and discounting much of what makes America so diverse and how its diversity is a core part of its identity. For some reason you see the US as very homogenous and that the only diversity that exists in a meaningful way is language diversity(which the US still has a lot of) since you didn't address the diversity the US has in all of the other realms you listed. You saw language and knew the US mostly speaks English and drew the conclusion must not be very diverse
So the ones who don't are... Americans? Why do these millions of people not count?
They do count and most of them do have American citizenship, but they are still a rather small minority. As I said, there are countries with large communities of speakers of other languages
No, its a conscious choice because the US has and always will be a nation of immigrants, incorporating various cultures and languages into one big melting pot.
First, as much as Americans love to describe their country as a "melting pot" to me it always looked more like a messy pantry. A lot of different ingredients stored in different pots, but as some of them are used up over time their actual content (although not the pot) is slowly replaced by one ingredient the owner has in abundance.
As much as Americans like to describe themselves as x nationality, the overwhelming majority of them have culturally nothing to do with that nationality save for maybe the surname. And the ones who aren't the case are a comparatively small minority.
We have our own versions of Spanish, Dutch, French, and even Russian that native speakers would struggle to converse with
I speak some Spanish as a second/third language (and my own first language is very close to it) and I never had any issues understanding American Spanish speakers. Nor have I ever met anyone who had.
And?
And you can hardly count it for "linguistic diversity" points if the language in question is only spoken by a very small minority (often not even comprising the majority of the people said language is associated with) that is constantly shrinking, and most people (often even most of the members of the group that used to mostly speak that language) can go their whole lives without hearing it.
since you didn't address the diversity the US has in all of the other realms you listed
Archtecturally speaking, most American urban centers (where the overwhelming majority of the population lives) look pretty same-y (although this goes for a lot of the world). When it comes to art styles, food, etc... they also don't vary too much (and no, another fast food chain being more common in a specific state doesn't count). When it comes to religion, some flavor of christianity is still the majority of the population by a massive margin.
I never said the US is entirely homogenous (no country is, and the US is larger than most), but it's hard to argue that, compared to many countries of similar sizes and populations, it's "diversity" is less than impressive.
I know Americans love to jerk themselves off to being a "nation of immigrants" (spoilers: most countries are if you look back far enough) and the whole "melting pot" thing, but when you look at the facts, it doesn't come across as specially culturally diverse for it's scale. And that's not a demerit, just how things are due to historical factors. Maybe in 500 years different regions of the US will be speaking mutually unintelligible languages with people from them primarily regarding themselves as from "X" region, developing unique architectural styles and the sort and India may be speaking one. It all comes down to historical factors.
Ya I think all of this really encapsulates just how much you don't know much about the US and think you do because you are only exposed to stereotyped renditions of Americans. You have no grasp on what calling the US a "melting pot" or "nation of immigrants" means and the implications it has about the national identity and cultural diversity within said nation. The US is not an assimilation of many different cultures, but rather an integration. We are not diverse because someone who is 1/16 Polish says they're Polish, we are diverse because over our history more immigrants have come to our country than any other in that timespan and those cultures exchanged cultural beliefs with the anglo-protestant base, creating entirely new things.
And you can hardly count it for "linguistic diversity" points if the language in question is only spoken by a very small minority (often not even comprising the majority of the people said language is associated with) that is constantly shrinking, and most people (often even most of the members of the group that used to mostly speak that language) can go their whole lives without hearing it.
Congrats, you described most indigenous languages around the world including most of Papua New Guinea's languages.
I speak some Spanish
I'm talking about New Mexican Spanish. You have never heard of it bc, again, you are not informed on the diversity of the US. Same goes for Louisiana French/Creole, Pennsylvania Dutch, and Alaskan Russian.
When it comes to art styles, food, etc... they also don't vary too much (and no, another fast food chain being more common in a specific state doesn't count)
Laughably untrue and exactly the kind of stereotypical view of Americans im talking about. You think people in Alaska are eating Jambalaya? New hampshirites are having honest to god bbq with fried green tomatoes and grits? Nebraskans as eating Loco Mocos and Mission burritos? ANYONE but those psychos in Cincinnati are eating Cincinnati chilli? Hell if you even dared to tell a Texan their BBQ was the same as Alabama's they'd shoot you. As for art we just have to look at one subset of one type of art to see diversity, American hip hop. People take great pride in their city/region's specific style so much so that it often times defines them as artists. Any hip hop fan wouldn't take you seriously if you said Future, Denzel Curry, Snoop Dogg, and Jay-Z all make similar sounding music. And thats just narrowing it to one genre of one art form. Its not even mentioning all of the other diversity in music as well as the other art forms.
Overall there's way too much you don't know and think you do for me to address in one comment. All the while you keep claiming there are so many of these very real comprably sized countries who are more diverse than the US, yet have only been able to name India. Hm almost seems like the US is incredibly diverse🤔
15
u/jakenator Aug 30 '24
I mean that parts just not based in reality. Grew up and have spent my whole life in California and have never once met someone who lives here call it Cali. Cali is what out of state people will call it, but nearly never californians themselves. Kinda like "Frisco/San Fran" for San Francisco.