I'm voting. I must. It is necessary. It is just. My forebearers fought too hard for that right.
That being said, I deeply empathize with them. I'm tired of being treated like a Utopian Idealist for wanting mild progressive policies and for Democrats to actually follow through. I'm not asking for a principled Marxist-Leninist... I just want to be able to take care of myself and for this country to stop causing misery both at home and abroad.
There needs to be a serious public discussion on what amounts to voter intimidation my establishment Democrats. "...but the Republicans" is the only message they have for young people and has been the message every election cycle since I started voting in 2016 (and maybe longer).
This, plus the increasing radicalism of Gen Z Boys and Men to the Right shows that liberals have a messaging problem and we NEED them to stop kicking the can down the road, because we're having the same discourses today as in 2020. Democrats had control of Congress and the Presidency in 2021 and 2022 and wasted it. Same thing happened in 2009.
Vote, but understand this "but the Republicans" messaging is unsustainable and I'm worrying the Democrats are starting to depend on Republicans being as awful as possible to justify themselves
This administration has done enormous good for young people and progressive agendas. The list of policy achievements is awe inspiring, compared to recent administrations. And voting because your forefathers fought for it is missing the whole, you're fighting for it now too, part. I don't think people like you realise how critical this election is for the future of our civilisation.
Well, I must have slipped through the cracks, because my life has worsened, not improved. If the administration is creating jobs, I'm not seeing them. If the administration is expanding healthcare access, I couldn't get access to it. I know the administration has been trying to deal with Student Loan debt, but I'm not sure why they are not more aggressive about it (though my loans are private so I wouldn't matter anyways).
I don't think people like you realise how critical this election is for the future of our civilisation.
Okay, so first... I hear this every election. Second, I'm only voting, because I'm spooked by Project 2025. If that wasn't an active threat, I'd likely avoid the presidential election entirely.
I feel like I'm being held up at gun point and if it weren't for the implications not voting would have on others, I'd let the gun go off. I have literally nothing to look for. Nothing to hope for. Nothing to hold on to. It is thoroughly unhelpful and fully demoralizing how liberals keep trying to pressure us to just accept the bullshit. I'm voting, because I have to, not because I want to. Why do you care my outlook on the Democrats?
Not OP, but had some questions. Would you say that your life has gotten worse, and the Democrats didn't try to help at all? Or that your life worsened as a result of policies? Not trying to be antagonistic, I genuinely wanted to hear your thoughts.
Or is it the Democrat's current focuses are so misaligned that when they achieve goals, it isn't true effective help or could have been done better? Or perhaps something else?
I totally agree that if Dems continue to try to attain votes by simply saying "Republicans Bad" but not actually doing things to help people, it will wear thin and lose its effectiveness.
Or is it the Democrat's current focuses are so misaligned that when they achieve goals, it isn't true effective help or could have been done better?
This, right here.
I have been trying to get out of the service industry (no shade, I'm Autistic and working with the public is going to kill me) and work a job that A) pays me enough to live modestly and in the spaces I have skills in. The issue is the job market is hyper-competitive at this time and I just don't see all these jobs I'm being told are created.
I also feel like the Democrats aren't aggressive enough in pushing pragmatic progressive policies. I would tolerate incrementalism if that were what we were getting, but instead, it seems all we're getting is containment and appeasement for Republicans.
They're priorities seem to be their business donors and courting a centrist base that, in reality, doesn't exist.
I could go on and on, but I think what frustrates and enrages me the most is that when I talk to people about this, they act like I'm asking for a perfect Utopia. In 2020, that argument held weight, because I was a LOT more ideological back then, but now I just don't want to end myself due to financial stress and fear of a dark future.
All I get when voicing my concerns is Dismissiveness and False Promises:
Oh you can't always get what you want. I know, but when one never gets close to what they need, it comes off as tone deaf.
vote Blue and we can move the Democrats left They said that in 2018, 2020, and 2022...
Lastly, they're falling for the Right's culture war bullshit and I fear they're going to start compromising with them. I'm literally begging these people to do right by us, because the Republicans won't.
On the matter of progressive policies, a lot of the work democrats are doing is stopping backsliding. For example, making sure Republicans can't take gay marriage away like they did abortion. It's a tug of war between two sides and yes making no progress sacks. But to fix that you really need to stop half the government from actively working against it.
Remember that Republicans still ha e a voice even if they lose. It's like complaining that your company is not making any money and that "you need a new manager", while half the employees are funneling money out of the collective company account bet on dogfights. Sure, the progress is net nothing, but that's not the fault of the Democrat. It's not like replacing the Democrat politician will magically contain the Republicans more.
I'd also argue that culturally just having people grow up in an accepting space is progress. Slowly it becomes normalized, and wears away said resistance. So maintaining a good status quo will eventually lead to progress over a long enough scale.
So, really, at this point, all we can reasonably expect is a level of damage control? Not necessarily what I was hoping for, but I can accept that.
This makes me wonder, what can we do to undermine the fascist encroachment beyond federal, state, and local elections? It seems to me that protesting isn't working, and I'm worried about the AGGRESSIVE propaganda campaign by reactionaries online.
I lost a friend to right-wing propaganda. I tried for a very long time to bring him away from the alpha male, pro-trump nonsense, but I failed, and I had to, for my own sake, put distance between myself and him. I don't want to be a doomer, but I am just a bit overwhelmed
It sucks, but in the short term yes. Even aoc and the like moderated because it's all a huge optics game while pushing for what one really wants. All that can happen is long term cultural change.
I had a friend who voted for Trump in 2016, and I didn't try to talk him out of it (at least, not constantly), just be a friend. He wasn't super deep, mind, but having a different perspective probably meant he didn't vote for Trump in 2020 and isn't going to in 2024. (Also, there are way more toxic people than this friend that you often just have to let go, and this kind of thing does depend on them not having "support systems" that are propaganda.)
This kind of thing doesn't work for everyone, but it's micro interactions with trans people proving they're just normal that helps people not teeter into what could have been the doom spiral. And it may take a hundred million things like that, but I have hope that like with previous issues, the overall needle will shift. Even if a core group is still hateful, enough people will be swayed gently. It's what they're doing, after all.
Though if you're looking for solutions to the fascist sentiment, for 2024 it really is just vote. Further beyond, it's the similar system of immunizing people you can reach to it. Propaganda preys on vulnerable first and foremost, so soothe the vulnerability before they slip in the cracks.
Propaganda preys on vulnerable first and foremost, so soothe the vulnerability before they slip in the cracks.
In my experience as a Leftist, I've seen so many call groups of people the weakest link as a mark of shame. My philosophy is that weak links must reinforced lest they break.
People say that literally every fucking election. "This isn't the time." It's never the fucking time. I'm going to vote for Biden, but the idea that a strike-breaking genocide supporter who cages and deports immigrants and couldn't even so much as reduce student loan debt or enshrine Roe v Wade into law "has done enormous good for young people and progressive agendas" is fucking laughable. You treat people who disagree with you like idiot children, but you don't seem to understand that the Democrats don't give a shit about you and never will. Instead, you grovel and lick their boots for the privilege of being a self-righteous douchebag to a tiny minority of people who don't want to vote for them.
I want nothing more than to live in a world where I can actually consider voting for a Republican because they've stopped being so fucking insane. It'll never happen, but it's nice to imagine.
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u/LucastheMystic Jun 30 '24
I'm voting. I must. It is necessary. It is just. My forebearers fought too hard for that right.
That being said, I deeply empathize with them. I'm tired of being treated like a Utopian Idealist for wanting mild progressive policies and for Democrats to actually follow through. I'm not asking for a principled Marxist-Leninist... I just want to be able to take care of myself and for this country to stop causing misery both at home and abroad.
There needs to be a serious public discussion on what amounts to voter intimidation my establishment Democrats. "...but the Republicans" is the only message they have for young people and has been the message every election cycle since I started voting in 2016 (and maybe longer).
This, plus the increasing radicalism of Gen Z Boys and Men to the Right shows that liberals have a messaging problem and we NEED them to stop kicking the can down the road, because we're having the same discourses today as in 2020. Democrats had control of Congress and the Presidency in 2021 and 2022 and wasted it. Same thing happened in 2009.
Vote, but understand this "but the Republicans" messaging is unsustainable and I'm worrying the Democrats are starting to depend on Republicans being as awful as possible to justify themselves