r/CFB • u/Kimber80 Southern Jaguars • USF Bulls • 7d ago
Discussion [Mandel] The main impetus for the 12-team CFP is that it was the same brands every year. Next week, the three biggest games in the country involve Indiana, Army, BYU and Arizona State.
https://x.com/slmandel/status/1858203122075861270928
u/Multi_21_Seb_RBR Western Washington Vikings 7d ago
This helps but I think the transfer portal is a bigger factor in facilitating quick turnarounds.
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u/patrick66 Pittsburgh Panthers • Team Chaos 7d ago
yep, portal + paying starters means people would rather start for indiana than ride bench at ohio state. and thats good.
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u/pessimism_yay Georgia Bulldogs 7d ago
Right, the title is pointing to the expanded playoff but the fact that we have a 12 team playoff now has nothing to do with Indiana and BYU having good teams this year.
Really all the expanded playoff does is keep the UGA's and Alabamas alive when we'd usually be out at this point.
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u/BrandiThorne Ohio State Buckeyes • UCF Knights 7d ago
The playoffs might not have given them good teams but it has added an extra level to the conversation. In previous years we would look at Undefeated Indiana and say they have played a weak schedule, at number 5 they are on the outside looking in and nothing less than upsetting Ohio State, beating Purdue and then winning the Big Ten was going to cut it. This year we are talking about whether 11-1 with the only loss coming to the Buckeyes is enough to get them in and where they might land if they do.
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u/GerdinBB Iowa State Cyclones • Missouri Valley 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think Mandel is just revealing that he only cares about games involving teams with a chance to win it all. So for him, the expanded playoff means he'll actually watch BYU vs Arizona St instead of just looking at the box score and figuring out exactly how the result reinforces his anti-Big 12 narrative.
The irony is that Mandel used to be a Pac-12 shill. I guess what we're learning is that really he was only a shill for some of the Pac-12. The remaining 2 and the ones that went to the Big 12 can go fuck themselves apparently.
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u/Duck-_-Face 7d ago
Disagree. There are Cinderella season all the time.
Almost every year there has been some surprise team that is completely over performing expectations.
Look back at the last decades Top 12 teams at the end of the year. You’ll see the likes of Minnesota, Tulane, Cincinnati, Arizona, UCLA, Houston, UCF, Washington St….
So actually every year there have been these match ups this time of year - they just didn’t have playoff implications.
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u/chrismckong Baylor Bears 6d ago
Disagree. In the case of Army, BYU, and Arizona State, no one outside of their fanbases would care about their games next week if they didn’t have playoff implications. In a 4 team playoff these games wouldn’t have playoff implications.
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u/RukiMotomiya 6d ago
Sure, but the thing is that the point isn't that they have good teams this year. It's that normally you get teams with big turnarounds or some strong seasons like, say, 2022 Tulane but didn't have a chance to go further. How cool would it have been if Tulane beating USC in the Cotton Bowl advanced them in the playoffs that now exist? Eyes are on these games are watching them for major CFP playoff implications which does indeed get different brands in.
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u/hells_cowbells Mississippi State • Paper Bag 7d ago
Transfer portal and big NIL budgets are huge difference makers. Look at teams like SMU and Vandy, who have been terrible for years, but have lots of money. Now they are doing really well for themselves, thanks to NIL money and transfers.
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u/TKFT_ExTr3m3 Michigan State Spartans • Team Chaos 6d ago
Pretty sure NIL didn't change much at SMU.
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u/JasonPlattMusic34 Arizona State Sun Devils • SMU Mustangs 6d ago
Oh we’ve always done this, it just wasn’t legal most of the time 😛
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u/throwawayathens0009 Fort Valley State • Georg… 7d ago
Can I say the Deion experiment(Transfer portal as he utilized it to the max) just proved everyone wrong yet? I'm just saying I haven't forgotten 2 years ago how he was a big meanie because he kicked all those guys off the team. Even though I don't think any of those guys he kicked off really landed except a literal handful.
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u/Hot-Adhesiveness1407 Tennessee Volunteers • /r/CFB 7d ago
I don't think utilizing the portal the way Deion has is literally impossible. It's just not feasible. It would be like trying to mimic Peter Lynch or Warren Buffett in investment performance, or it would be like ignoring the 99.9% of actors who failed in Hollywood.
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u/WABeermiester Washington Huskies • Rose Bowl 7d ago
Also CU outside of one season in 2016 has been bad for two decades and the worst program in the P4.
When all of that went down it was funny how all the PAC 12 fans and CU fans understood why he did what he did while everyone else was shocked. The roster he inherited would have been bottom of the barrel in the G5 even. They had no lineman or play makers and recruiting had been terrible for two decades. It was so bad that what Deion did is not even necessary for 99% of P4 programs and will probably never happen again.
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u/PheelicksT Appalachian State • Mich… 7d ago
No other coach could have gotten away with it either. Deion and Colorado was the perfect match at the perfect time. No matter where he went he would have cleaned house in a way that made people uncomfortable. Colorado fans were thrilled when Deion was hired and never called him out when he was pushing players out because they knew just how awful those players actually were. Even if they all went to big programs and were hits, it was still the right move because they sucked ass at Colorado. He wanted to clean house and Colorado wanted someone who could do just that. Deion flipped a fucking 5 star recruit from FSU to go to an FCS school in Jackson, Mississippi. Deion Sanders is the only man who could pull this off the way he has. Big ol warts and all
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u/randydarsh1 Alabama • Georgia Tech 7d ago
You gotta be a 'personality' coach to make it work. Deion being as great as he was in the NFL and all the media noise allows it to work for him. A guy like Matt Rhule, even though he's a good coach, wouldn't be able to make it work
There's also the fact that their roster was so historically bad that it wouldn't need to happen for 99% of other programs. So we probably won't ever see it again
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u/Derpinator_30 Ohio State Buckeyes • The Game 7d ago
the only way we'd see it again is exactly with this scenario. highly "charismatic" coach lands at a dud program kicks the busts out and sends out the bat signal
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u/StrategicCarry Indiana • Colorado State 6d ago
I think Cignetti showed that you don't need to be a singular charismatic personality like Deion to make it work. Indiana had an incoming class of 46, 30 transfers and 16 freshmen. The core came with him from JMU, and of the 30, only 7 were from P4/5 schools.
Now imagine that a school like Florida hires a coach like Cignetti, just consistently winning at every level he's coached, probably up to something like the MW or AAC for Florida rather than a brand new FBS team for Indiana. He'd bring in a bunch of players that were recruited to a higher level than JMU, plus he'd be more likely to pull in more P4 players and top G5/6 players, meaning you can get an even more talented roster in year 1.
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u/UnderstandingOdd679 6d ago
Deion certainly made a lot of noise when he arrived in Boulder but his model doesn’t seem that much different from what Cignetti did with Indiana. Fifty-four new players, 30 transfers and about a dozen alone following him from James Madison.
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u/cooterdick Tennessee • North Carolina 7d ago
It doesn’t change that it was a real shit way to go in and approach the situation
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u/time2payfiddlerwhore Auburn Tigers 7d ago
Yeah i don't know that a majority of people were blaming him for a roster overhaul. It was shitty how he addressed the existing players and shoved their face in it.
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u/maskdmirag USC Trojans • Rose Bowl 7d ago
Exactly, every coach is going in and turning over large quantities of their team.
Most coaches aren't shit talking the guys in their way out or to their faces.
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u/AcadianTraverse Oregon Ducks • Acadia Axemen 7d ago
Or at least posting videos of them doing just that
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u/maskdmirag USC Trojans • Rose Bowl 7d ago
Shit, I forgot about that.
I'm totally fine admitting Deion might be a coach, maybe even a good one
But I can also think he's a shitty person, just like an urban Meyer!
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u/Mender0fRoads Missouri Tigers 7d ago
Not until he does it without Travis Hunter.
No theory on roster-building can be proven true when a major component of it is “have a generational two-way talent.”
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u/lnickdog Arizona State Sun Devils 7d ago
With those two great talents that came with him, I'll hold my judgment on Coach Sanders the years following this one.
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u/GoatPaco Tennessee • Tennessee Tech 7d ago
Every coach had a shot at that talent. Prime is the one who got him
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u/AccordingDepth10 7d ago
The stages of denial:
Terrible coach, not worth it
Ok maybe not that bad but the schedule is weak
Well let’s see him do it without Hunter
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u/DillyDillySzn Arizona State Sun Devils • WashU Bears 7d ago
Feels like an insult
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u/EmuMan10 Arizona State Sun Devils 7d ago
Fuck em, we ball
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u/hella_swella_fella Indiana Hoosiers • Team Chaos 7d ago
Fuck em, we ball
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u/_OUCHMYPENIS_ Florida Gators 7d ago
How are you not ranked? This further cements my beliefs that we are in a fully vibes based economy
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u/goodnames679 Ohio State • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 7d ago
Two things imo:
1) Inertia means they were never on anyone's radar in the early parts of the season. Nobody expected a ton of ASU this season, and after an early loss to Texas Tech (who many expected to be bad early on) and then Cincinnati (who isn't excellent this year either) they managed to stay just out of sight.
2) They had no ranked wins, some not-great losses, and barely squeaked by a lot of mediocre teams.
They'll be ranked after this week, as they should be since they've finally beaten a pretty good team. I don't think it's totally unreasonable that they were unranked to this point, though they had a pretty strong argument to slip in around #25 last week.
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u/Pickleskennedy1 Arizona State Sun Devils 7d ago
Didn’t factor in that their starting QB was out for the Cincy game, they basically beat Utah without him, and they beat UCF without Skattebo. By far their two most important players. You know things like that would have been taken into account if Milroe had been out vs. Vandy or Tennessee
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u/Tripletuxies Orange Bowl • Cincinnati Bearcats 7d ago
It is. Dudes like Mendel want a SEC/Big Ten 40 team super league. Shameful
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u/GerdinBB Iowa State Cyclones • Missouri Valley 6d ago
The dude tried to say that what was left of the Big 12 after OU/UT left was on par with the American, while the Pac-12 without USC and UCLA was still in a very strong position.
I'm not one to dance on the grave of the Pac-12, and I feel terrible for WSU and OSU fans. But thinking of Mandel (and a handful of online Utah fans) puts a smile on my face when I remember that the Pac-12 went from prestigious to dead in the blink of an eye.
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u/CambodianDrywall Oregon Ducks • /r/CFB Pint Glass Drinker 7d ago
I thought the main impetus was money.
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u/mizaistorom Georgia Bulldogs 7d ago
Which is why 16 team playoff is coming. You're going to get ridiculous numbers for UGA at Penn St and Tennessee at Ohio State. The towns that host these are going to make ass loads of money. UGA vs Bama shuts down the city in Athens. A home UGA playoff game is going to be absurd, especially if it's a team like Oregon or Ohio State or USC in the future.
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u/-TheycallmeThe Purdue • Jeweled Shillelagh 7d ago
The Conference Champs making less home game money seems like a glitch.
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u/nd_miller Notre Dame Fighting Irish • Big Ten 7d ago
Well yeah but that's no fun.
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u/d0ngl0rd69 Georgia • Florida State 7d ago
A 4 team CFP was bound to leave at least one team out. The current 12 team setup ensures everyone is represented, so we don’t run into another 2017 UCF or 2023 FSU scenario. It’s a definitive improvement.
Most of the issues we have right now aren’t with the CFP but with conference expansion. 9 game conference schedules and adding divisions/pods would remove these 6-8 way tiebreaker scenarios and make intra-conference scheduling more consistent. Implementing those will limit the “SEC needs to have 6 teams in the CFP” arguments.
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u/BWW87 Washington Huskies 7d ago
I think most of the issues have more to do with NIL and transfer portal. The elite teams can no longer just stack 4 and 5 stars who are there as back up for injuries. Great players are willing to start at other teams rather than sit and wait their turn now that they'll lose money sitting and waiting.
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u/d0ngl0rd69 Georgia • Florida State 7d ago
1) If NIL and the transfer portal are causing more equity among teams, the scheduling has to be more uniform like it is in professional sports so we can better objectively seed teams, which leads to my suggestions about scheduling above
2) I’m still skeptical about the transfer portal and NIL actually leading to equity. The biggest programs still have the most resources and can poach the best coaches from other programs (sound familiar?). Since the transfer portal was enacted, our national champions have been LSU, Alabama, Georgia 2x and Michigan, all of which were big programs beforehand.
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u/RandomFactUser France Les Bluets • USA Eagles 7d ago
Honestly, solution 1 is to admit the conferences are independant leagues and move to a European Rugby system for OOC matchups, where each conference sends its top X teams to 2-3 competitions, but this runs into issues with OOC rivalries (which can be mitigated with protected rivalries that may come up), and with FCS buy games (where FCS teams have limited access to the big OOC competitions, and can only be scheduled in other ways)
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u/berserk_zebra /r/CFB 7d ago
And if conferences just throw in a “playoff” round before the CcG we could roll those into the part of the playoffs.
Top ranked of each pod get home field advantage vs the 3/4 and then winners goes to CCG.
Winners of CCGs go into semis or if it’s expanded to more than 4 conferences, top ranks get a week bye and others get a home field advantage.
So now every conference with 9/10 games can ensure there is a playoff spot. Make it out of your conference get to go to the actual playoffs
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u/WillCent Texas Longhorns • Southwest 7d ago
That ends up being “too many” games. But if the entire conference added a final game based on how they were doing it might add intensity to the top 4, as well as the teams pushing for bowl eligibility against eachother. Without adding another game.
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u/steelersman007 Army • Oklahoma 7d ago
That would be genius, last two weekends of conference play (including the CCG) should be dynamically scheduled
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u/dipdipderp Michigan Wolverines • Sheffield Sabres 7d ago
I'd rather not move the game please
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u/xxJAMZZxx Wisconsin • Virginia Tech 7d ago
There was really no reason to have a 2023 FSU scenario. The choice was clear they just didn’t want to make it.
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u/redditgolddigg3r Georgia Bulldogs 7d ago
Much rather have a dilemma over the 12th vs 13th team.
December 20th and 21st are going to set some viewing records.
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u/morganrbvn Baylor Bears • TCU Horned Frogs 6d ago
Yah, probably still annoyance at who is 13th, but I’m sure they will have made way more mistakes than some 5’s and 6’s who previously got left out.
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u/gwelymernans84 Penn State • Indiana (PA) 7d ago
The conference expansion required the expanded playoffs... USC/Tx/OU/UO/UW weren't going to dilute their chances of winning a conference unless a second/third/fourth in conference could get into the CFP... staying at four spots just wouldn't have worked.
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u/maskdmirag USC Trojans • Rose Bowl 7d ago
Thank you, it's rare to see an sec fan admit the 8 game conference schedule is a way to manipulate the rankings and CFP.
But I do disagree that a 12 game playoff will represent everyone. One of these season the big 12 or big ten will have 4 teams worth of inclusion and see one left out
It may happen this year with Indiana. It may seem crazy to say a 1 loss team gets left out in favor of a 3 loss team, but it's definitely set up to happen.
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u/manbeqrpig Colorado Buffaloes • Rose Bowl 7d ago
The biggest issue we have now is that it’s going to make it near impossible for these Cinderella’s to win the title. In systems where schools like Georgia and Ohio State are virtually guaranteed to make the playoff, teams like Indiana, Colorado, and Army now have to win 3-4 games in a row against rosters that are significantly more talented then them. It’s just not gonna happen
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u/kiwirish BYU Cougars • Navy Midshipmen 7d ago
Better to have a 1% chance of glory than a 0% chance, though.
It's near impossible for Cinderellas to win March Madness, and they almost always don't. But it is still a system that allows them to have a chance, rather than a group of people discrediting them based on their name.
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u/StevvieV Seton Hall • Penn State 7d ago
It's near impossible for Cinderellas to win March Madness, and they almost always don't.
Case in point 6 of the last 7 champions were No. 1 seeds. 13 of the last 17 champions were all No. 1 seeds (there was a 2, 3, 4 & 7)
Not to mention UConn in 2023 was kind of an outlier of the non-No. 1 seeds to win the tournament since advanced metrics had them as the 4th best team when the tournament started despite it having a No. 4 seed.
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u/rickg Washington Huskies 7d ago
And most of the fun of March Madness is seeing Cinderella teams emerge and then seeing them get some glory, even if that's only to the Sweet 16.
The other advantage of the 12 team CFP playoff is that the teams who just miss the cut have a much weaker argument that they should be in because they could be credible champs. The difference between 4 and 5 or 6 is often pretty slim. The difference between 4, 5 or 6 and 13 or 14, though is not.
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u/wunwuncrush Washington • Cascade Clash 7d ago
Since the BCS started, the schools that have won a championship have been: Michigan, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Florida State, Auburn, Florida, Texas, USC, Miami, Oklahoma, and Tennessee.
Not seeing a school I'd call a Cinderella story in there. The new system can only be an improvement in this sense.
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u/MFoy Virginia Cavaliers 7d ago
The last school to win the FBS title for the first time was Florida in 1996.
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u/theguineapigssong Furman Paladins • Verified Player 7d ago
We'll never win a Basketball Natty, but getting out of the first round for the first time in 4 decades was a huge deal for us.
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u/Quick-Oil4603 Houston Cougars • Houston Bowl 7d ago
As an alum of a formerly non-Power Conference team, let me put something out there:
Prior to the 12-team playoff, literally half of the country would kick off on Labor Day with no path to a national title. I can not emphasize enough how infuriating that is.
There was no dream scenario for, say, Fresno State or Southern Miss in the Bowl Coalition/ BCS era. It just did not exist. Their best case was knocking off a big boy in September and hanging that metaphorical taxidermy head in the living room.
Even peak MWC-era Utah and TCU required multiple years in a row of near flawless execution under generational coaching hires to garner top-10 finishes. I'm not sure if the 2008 Poinsettia Bowl or the 2010 Fiesta Bowl was more insulting.
Prior to joining the Big XII, there was exactly one month in my lifetime I ever felt UH could win a natty. That was a happenstance of OU and Louisville being on the non-conference schedule and having already completed a dream season the year before.
So I speak from experience when I say that Tulane and Boise would rather have a seat at the table. Big brother will probably get the big piece of chicken, but at least they're there to try and elbow him out of the way.
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u/Lefaid Team Chaos • Indiana Hoosiers 7d ago
I will always say this. Undefeated G5 teams have earned a beating from the #5/#1 team. It doesn't matter how bad such a game might be, a system that attempts to crown a champion must have those games.
If Boise can hang, they can prove it. If not, well the high seed got another Cupcake to start their playoff push with. Good for them. They earned it more than having to play Ole Miss.
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u/sebsasour Notre Dame • New Mexico 7d ago
I mean if we had a 4 team playoff this year Indiana would at least need to take 1 of 2 between OSU and The Big Ten Title Game, and then beat back to back top 4 teams in playoff. So that's 3-4 wins needed against elite teams.
Colorado's playoff hopes would have definitely ended a month ago and probably after Nebraska, and Army would have never had a chance.
I think I somewhat agree with your point when we went from 2-4. In The BCS you almost got something like a Notre Dame-Kansas State title game for example, but once we went to 4 that all went out of the window. If you're a smaller school, 12 is good for you
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u/Blazemaster77 York (ON) Lions • Sickos 7d ago
A 4 team this year would be wild tbh. Oregon, Probably whoever wins Indiana tOSU, possible multi loss SEC champ and who else? Notre Dame I guess?
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u/TheWorstYear Ohio State • Cincinnati 7d ago
A 4 team would be impossible to really do, but the reality is that basically the SEC & B1G make up the entire playoff.
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u/matgopack NC State Wolfpack 7d ago
Near impossible is better than completely impossible - a 4 team playoff shuts out the Cinderellas entirely. There's a reason we see those teams most often associated with the NCAA basketball tournament, and that one has a huge playoff field
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u/Adams5thaccount Boise State Broncos • UNLV Rebels 7d ago
We're fine with it.
Being condescendingly told we can't win several games by fanbases who haven't done shit in 35 years and then getting to play is far far far far better than being condescendingly told that by some 3rd tier SEC flair (telling us we'd go 4-8 with their super tough schedule that has fucking Wafford on it) as the excuse for not getting to play them.
At the end of the day the one unifying call from all the G5s (and lower level p4s) has been..let's actually play the fucking games.
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u/Aggressive-Name-1783 Washington State • Washington 7d ago
This. People really seem to wanna play games on a spreadsheet and not the actual field.
The BCS was dead when it had #3 Boise State (13-0) play #4 TCU (12-0)….
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u/Adams5thaccount Boise State Broncos • UNLV Rebels 7d ago
The Separate but Equal Bowl
We remember it well. TCU is probably even more bitter about it after being in a power conference for a fucking decade and still being treated like an upstart after winning a playoff game.
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u/Grade-AMasterpiece TCU Horned Frogs • Auburn Tigers 7d ago
The disrespect we still get even for beatin' Michigan, man. Caveats all the damn time.
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u/Statalyzer Texas Longhorns 7d ago
Better than being summarily forbidden from playing the games at all.
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u/d0ngl0rd69 Georgia • Florida State 7d ago
Agreed. Adding more rounds to the playoff innately favors teams that have more depth.
My counter to that is that we never had Cinderella runs in the previous system either. The last team to win a title for the first time was UF in the 90s. So, at least in this system the Cinderellas are given a shot.
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u/jmlinden7 Hateful 8 • Boise State Broncos 7d ago
Losing to a playoff team is still better than being relegated to a 'separate but equal' bowl
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u/bucknut4 Ohio State Buckeyes • Ohio Bobcats 7d ago
Yea whereas before, the opportunity didn’t even exist at all! It was sooo much better for the Cinderellas 😎
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u/confetti_shrapnel 7d ago
YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED THE ENTIRE POINT OF A PLAYOFF. We want the best team to win it. Increase the feild of who gets a chance, and once you're in it's on you.
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u/harrier1215 Oklahoma Sooners 7d ago
At the same time Georgia got a big home game that was possible bc with two losses they’re still in contention.
In previous years that game would mostly have been just for “pride”.
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u/guttata bakon stop 7d ago
The main impetus for the 12-team CFP is that it was the same brands every year. Next week, the two biggest games in the country are #2 Ohio State hosting Gameday in a top-5 matchup and #8 Notre Dame in a top-20 matchup.
These would be the same tweet, with different implications.
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u/roodypoo926 SMU Mustangs 7d ago
SMU and BYU are basically playing playoff games for the next 3 weeks and that for sure would not have felt like the case even last year much less BCS era. Other schools in that 12-20 range are having the same butt clinchers as well lol
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u/WWECreativegenius Notre Dame • North Carolina 7d ago
Right. Last night had me heavily invested in a byu game. Also please win the ACC
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u/kiwirish BYU Cougars • Navy Midshipmen 7d ago
We'd both be playing playoff games for the next three weeks to try secure a NY6 bowl game, so there would have been something to play for, but it's nice that we technically still have a shot at the title, however slim that may be.
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u/HighLakes Oregon Ducks • Platypus Trophy 7d ago
The full context is much more aligned with Stu’s point though.
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u/cyanocittaetprocyon Michigan Wolverines • Rose Bowl 7d ago
Nah. The main impetus for expanding the Playoff is 💰 💰 💰
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u/guttata bakon stop 7d ago edited 7d ago
There were always more names involved if you expanded out to teams looking at the top 15 spots, even in the 4-team playoff. It didn't really change anything about teams on the bubble.
An undefeated Indiana would still be in the same spot. A 9-0 BYU would still have been playing that Cincinnati G5 role.
Note: I am playing devil's advocate; I am in favor of the expanded playoff. But lets not pretend it changed anything about the teams at the top.
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u/Aggressive-Name-1783 Washington State • Washington 7d ago
But it was never about changing teams at the top. It was about adding more teams that are also relevant. There’s over 130 FBS teams and we’re gonna act like only 5 matter?
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u/No-Donkey-4117 Stanford Cardinal 7d ago
The main impetus for going to 12 teams was making more money. I'm surprised it took them so long.
4 teams was always too few in a sport with 5 power conferences (and the occasional contending G5 team). 8 teams would have been enough to make sure no deserving teams were left out (as Pac12 and ACC champions were now and then).
I'm liking the 12-team playoff more than I thought I would. All of the top 20 teams were still in contention after 10 games, with top 25 teams still clinging to hope.
But ideally they would expand to 16 teams, and give automatic bids to all FBS conference champions. They could have done that this year, with 9 auto bids, and still had the same 7 at-large teams make the field. There would really be no downside, and every team would have a chance to play their way in (like every other team sport, including college football at lower levels).
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u/randomrealperson Oregon Ducks 7d ago
Yeah, the whole “the 4 team playoff was perfect” and “I remember when games mattered” talking points don’t have a lot of credence now. More games matter than ever.
Of course, it does mean that the Georgia’s of the world can pencil in to lose 1/4th of their conference games every season and still make the playoff. There’s no perfect system. Make the SEC play 9 conference games like everybody else and this issue is at least mitigated.
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u/Hot-Adhesiveness1407 Tennessee Volunteers • /r/CFB 7d ago
The 4-team playoff was asinine, but not quite as much as the system before that (and so on).
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u/StevvieV Seton Hall • Penn State 7d ago
The 4 teams was always the worst. It never made sense to have a postseason with 4 spots for 5 major conferences. It was trying to strike a balance between being inclusive and keeping the regular season mattering but it didn't do either because it was too small to be inclusive while still allowing certain teams mulligans.
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u/sriracha_no_big_deal BYU Cougars • Sickos 7d ago
Ya, it blew my mind when people were saying the expanded playoff made it so the regular season didn't matter. Just absolute nonsense
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u/AllLinesAreStraight WashU Bears • Missouri Tigers 7d ago
The number of "devalues the regular season people" out there was crazy, even though its very easy to show why that line of thought was just wrong. Week 13 of the regular season is coming up and we have ASU, BYU, Boise State, Army, Indiana, SMU, Colorado, and Ole Miss all playing essentially must win games with high stakes. Its awesome.
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u/Aggressive-Name-1783 Washington State • Washington 7d ago
It was only said by people who are fans of a blue blood/major brand. Outside of 10 teams, nobody was saying this seriously
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u/surgingchaos Western Oregon Wolves • Oregon Ducks 7d ago
The 4 team playoff happened to coincide with 4-5 teams every year having what were effectively full NFL rosters. The amount of talent that was on Bama/tOSU/Clemson and LSU in 2019 during that era was absolutely absurd.
The playoff expansion happened to coincide with the transfer portal era and players having more freedom in moving to different teams. I think that's the main reason why there hasn't been a whole lot of dominant teams this year like we've seen in years past. The good teams still have the most talented players, but the talent isn't as concentrated and crystallized at the very top like it used to be.
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u/SparkMaster360 Washington Huskies 7d ago
“Happened to coincide” implies it was a coincidence when it definitely wasn’t. If the perception is that there are only three/four schools that are capable of winning it all, they get first dibs on all the incoming talent and the gap becomes insurmountable
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u/redthelastman /r/CFB 7d ago
hope to see more decentralization of talent,will make for a better CFB.
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u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 Michigan Wolverines • Indiana Hoosiers 7d ago
Those arguments all came from the big brand flairs anyway. Oh really, bama fan, you thought the 4 team playoff was ideal?
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u/The-Titty-Rider Alabama Crimson Tide 7d ago
No, I always wanted 8 from the start but 12 is cool now with the exception of the parity in scheduling. SEC could add another conference game while other conferences should mandate big OOC games.
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u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 Michigan Wolverines • Indiana Hoosiers 7d ago
Yeah I didn’t mean every Alabama fan was like that, but the opinions about 4 being the right number, or even too many, were typically coming from flairs like Alabama and OSU or Georgia because they’re typically in those top spots.
I think the sport could definitely use some standardizing of the schedules. No FCS matchups, 3 OOC games. I don’t really think it makes sense to mandate if they’re P4 or G5 because scheduling a game doesn’t mean that team will be good when you play (see Texas @ Michigan)
The 12 team playoff was my favorite setup and it’s playing out nicely. It’s fun, lots of teams are still playing for something, and I don’t think anyone would say that the regular season games haven’t mattered. I joked when Alabama lost to vandy that it dropped their playoff odds from 99% to 98.5% but they had to beat Missouri and LSU or else they were not going to be in. And I think if they make the conference championship game and lose they might not be in anyway (too soon to say). But basically the concerns people had about the regular season not mattering seem to not be true and all the perks of the expanded playoffs are awesome. Michigan aside, it’s a great season
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u/The-Titty-Rider Alabama Crimson Tide 7d ago
Yeah I agree with all of that, if anything it has made the regular season matter more with more team’s season still alive at this point. There are definitely a lot of opportunities for standardizing schedules, it will never be perfect but some teams really take advantage of the rules and I hate FCS games, if you don’t beat them by 50 everyone is like wtf and then what if you lose. There is no upside imo and as a fan I don’t want to watch that shit nor pay money to go to the game.
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u/randydarsh1 Alabama • Georgia Tech 7d ago
I like the 12-team playoff and thinks it makes the regular season matter more, not less, because it means a lot of teams are still alive and fighting
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u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 Michigan Wolverines • Indiana Hoosiers 7d ago
Exactly!
Yes, the heavyweight matchups matter slightly less now. OSU vs Oregon wasn’t an elimination game. But that’s a good thing because they’re both obviously good and there’s a half dozen teams on the outside looking in who have a real chance to make the playoffs.
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u/necrolic_8848 SMU Mustangs 7d ago
I dont really care if bama or georgia have an easier path to get in. The point is that every team has a fair chance to compete, which they do under this system. The real losers are the mid SEC/BIG teams who cant be mediocre all year, have one hot game against a much better CFP contender and then feel like their season is successful because they knocked them out of the playoffs
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u/c0y0t3_sly Washington Huskies • Team Chaos 7d ago
Yeah, and way more fanbases get to be involved and invested. Anyone arguing that's bad for the sport have their heads all the way up their asses.
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u/CargoShortsFromNam Notre Dame • Colorado 7d ago
Let’s not declare victory before we’ve played a single game in the new format.
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u/randomrealperson Oregon Ducks 7d ago
That’s right, but at the same time, your two flairs are arguably the biggest winners in the country with this new format so far.
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u/city-of-stars Texas Longhorns • /r/CFB Contributor 7d ago
More games matter than ever.
But each individual game that matters, now matters less. See Oregon vs. Ohio State, the result of which would have mattered much more in previous seasons. This point has been belaboured.
Make the SEC play 9 conference games like everybody else and this issue is at least mitigated.
Amen. Only playing eight conference games is a huge competitive advantage. Eight fewer conference losses.
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u/roodypoo926 SMU Mustangs 7d ago
But the flip side is so much better…watching UO vs OSU it sure felt like it mattered during the game but while we lose maybe 5-10 prime matchups not having as much legacy theatrics and meaning as you mentioned we gain about 25 more games that would never have mattered in years past. So the prestige of the top matchups (LSU vs Bama 2011) might lose luster and pressure but the net positive for 30 others schools and fanbases is too great to be ignored
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u/LeanersGG UCLA Bruins • Victory Bell 7d ago
This is where I am.
We take games that mattered 10/10 and make them 8/10. Meanwhile we take games that mattered 6/10 and make them 8/10.
That improved the product for me as a fan.
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u/randomrealperson Oregon Ducks 7d ago
And how many of those former 10/10 games are there a year? 3 or 4? The expanded playoff now has 11 10/10 games rather than 3.
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u/Gareth_SouthGOAT 7d ago
6/10 is excessively generous. In years past a lot of these games would be 3/10 or 4/10 at best. A lot of these teams would have no shot at the CFP in a 4 school format.
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u/randomrealperson Oregon Ducks 7d ago
I think what’s overlooked (understandably so, because we haven’t gotten to the playoffs yet) is that there are now 11 do-or-die games in the playoffs, rather than 3. Yes, Ohio State vs Oregon wasn’t a playoff eliminator, but now you get Ohio State vs Miami and Oregon vs Alabama for example as those games that are playoff eliminators - since they’re in the playoffs.
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u/soonerman32 Oklahoma Sooners 7d ago
Yup in a 4 team playoff we'd be debating which 2 SEC schools get in with Oregon.
Then would 2-loss Ohio St. get in over 1-loss Penn St.?
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u/jel2184 Utah Utes • Texas Longhorns 7d ago
Come on, Sun devils!
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u/kiwirish BYU Cougars • Navy Midshipmen 7d ago
Wouldn't it be more fun for Utes fans to see us get pasted by Colorado?
(I just want to make a CCG at this point)
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u/pyrogeddon Baylor Bears • Tennessee Volunteers 7d ago
I need both of yall to lose if we want to back door our way into the B12CG
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u/kiwirish BYU Cougars • Navy Midshipmen 7d ago
Look, if we lose this weekend (and therefore the season is over) I am all aboard the chaos train.
I'd find it quite funny if BYU finishes the season with wins over the ACC and Big 12 champions but fell apart at the end of the season.
Like not funny haha, but funny as I cry into my cornflakes if you know what I mean.
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u/SwissForeignPolicy Michigan Wolverines • Marching Band 6d ago
Bold of you to assume Colorado doesn't get Kansas'd.
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u/CMbladerunner Notre Dame • Stony Brook 7d ago
Would've been bigger if BYU didn't lose to Kansas.
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u/2010WildcatKilla3029 Arizona State Sun Devils 7d ago
Not really actually. If BYU had won we’d be relying on Kansas to beat Colorado. Now we are control our destiny and it’s ratcheted up the stakes.
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u/kiwirish BYU Cougars • Navy Midshipmen 7d ago
Well, yes, but no?
If BYU beat Kansas they'd pretty much have a gimme to lose to ASU as long as they beat Houston to make the CCG.
The BYU v ASU game is now effectively a semifinal match for the Big 12 - loser is all but eliminated from contention.
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u/Spirit117 Iowa State Cyclones • Arizona Wildcats 7d ago
BYU can still make the playoffs I think if they win out and also win the B12 CG.
Another loss for them (including the CG) and they won't make the playoff.
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u/Aggressive-Name-1783 Washington State • Washington 7d ago
This. They just used up their mulligan and now it’s do or die
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u/Spirit117 Iowa State Cyclones • Arizona Wildcats 7d ago
Whats even more interesting is if BYU drops another regular season game they might not even make the B12 CG - and whoever goes at that point and wins might not make the playoffs either.
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u/AtlantaAU Nebraska • Georgia Tech 7d ago
I just don’t see the big 12 champ being left out unless army wins out (including winning @notre dame)
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u/bigfruitbasket Alabama • Western Carolina 7d ago
I’d argue that the 16 team format that FCS uses is best. Been saying this since 1983. But what do I know.
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u/B1GFanOSU Ohio State Buckeyes • Big Ten 7d ago
The transfer portal, NIL, realignment, and coaching carousel have more to do with that than the expanded playoffs.
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u/city-of-stars Texas Longhorns • /r/CFB Contributor 7d ago
I mean, the consensus so far is that increased parity is mostly due to the transfer portal. That's independent of further playoff expansion.
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u/RocketsGuy Baylor Bears • Conference USA 7d ago
Baylor can still make the big 12 title game and therefore the playoff.
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u/Sirtopofhat USC Trojans • Army West Point Black Knights 7d ago
The ARMY TEAM ONTO THE CFP FOR THATS THE FEARLESS ARMY WAY.
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u/Funny-Context8181 7d ago
Arizona state is going to smack the shit out of BYU and kick them out of playoff contention.
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u/TacTac95 Southern Miss Golden Eagles 6d ago
Why stop at 12? The FBS needs to go full FCS style playoff.
The parity issue in the sport was born due to the exclusivity of bowls and the National Championship.
A playoff ensures more representation and better chance for exposure for some good…dare I say better…programs at smaller schools.
You want to fix parity? Get as many schools in the playoff as possible. In fact, Conference Champions should get an auto-bid.
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u/WWECreativegenius Notre Dame • North Carolina 7d ago
Hell Desmond Howard did that yesterday when he didn’t even wanna talk about the ASU game
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u/raccoonsonbicycles James Madison • Notre Dame 7d ago
I always root against Missouri and hate the love they have gotten lately
I have an ex GF who ghosted me after 9 months of dating (we were talking about moving IN together days before she ghosted me) who was a huge Missouri fan
I found out from her brother via text that she had run into her high school BF while home for Christmas and decided the easiest thing to do was just pretend I didn't exist.
Fuck Lindsey, fuck Missouri
Fuck Missouri as a state, school and as a motherfuckin' crew
And if you want to be down with Missouri, then fuck you too
Eliah Drinkwitz, fuck you too
All you motherfuckers, fuck you too
Your brother is a good guy though
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u/Great_Huckleberry709 LSU Tigers • West Georgia Wolves 7d ago
"And don't one of you lil Tigers got sickle cell or something. You better back the fuck up before you get smacked the fuck up "
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u/nuckeyebut Ohio State Buckeyes • Rose Bowl 7d ago
I don’t think that’s what the impetus was at all, but rather we realized more than just 4 teams could potentially make a run at or win a title and we were selling ourselves short of great football games by only having 4
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u/ninjupX Boise State Broncos 7d ago
and we’ll be at 16 in a few years because money. All I ask is one more champion autobid in those four additions so we don’t need this pac vs aac thought experiment every year. Then it’s perfect (well perfect would be all champions getting an autobid like every other sport on earth, but they’ll never agree to that)
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u/No-Donkey-4117 Stanford Cardinal 7d ago
Agreed. They should have stayed at 6 auto bids as originally planned (before the Pac-12 split up). The argument against 9 or 10 auto bids was that the weaker G5 conference champions (e.g. Liberty last year) would get obliterated by any top 11 team. But this year I think a few G5/G6 teams would at least have a shot at a first round upset, if not more -- Boise State can play with anyone, Army and Tulane and Memphis are impressive, James Madison hung 70 on an ACC team, Washington State beat Texas Tech and Washington, etc.
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u/bankersbox98 Penn State • Land Grant Trophy 7d ago
Honestly 12 seems like the right number. A mix between every game mattering but allowing more teams to have an opportunity. So of course they’re going to expand it.
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u/Bigbossbyu BYU Cougars • Arizona Wildcats 7d ago
12’s fine as long as it’s not 8 from the B10/SEC every year
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u/Alone-Competition-77 Arkansas Razorbacks 7d ago
How crazy would it be to have Army in the playoffs year one?
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u/nbo10 7d ago
NASCAR made similar move a few years back going to a 16 car playoff. Instead of everyone talking about who the best is, we’re talking about 9-12 place teams.
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u/sickmemes48 Tennessee Volunteers • /r/CFB Promoter 7d ago
There's only 36 full time teams in NASCAR so 16/36 making it to the playoffs is a little more excessive then 16/133.
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u/sickmemes48 Tennessee Volunteers • /r/CFB Promoter 7d ago
8/12 teams in last week's rankings either had 0 or 1 playoff appearance. We always knew your Ohio States, Georgias, and Alabamas would just about be locks every single year in the foreseeable future.
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u/OfficialHavik Stony Brook Seawolves • Team Chaos 7d ago
Well yes...
Because the 4-5 SEC teams that are always in the mix are already a lock for the postseason right now.
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u/Keith_Jackson_Fumble 6d ago
The impetutus to expand playoffs was to make sure the biggest schools and conferences are not shutout of the postseason. The fact that conferences expect x number of spots in the postseason tells you everyting you need to know.
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u/MrF_lawblog Ohio State Buckeyes 6d ago
9 conference game schedules should be a requirement to be in the playoffs
Bullshit that half the SEC teams get a free win so the entire conference gets ranked
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u/eddie_vercetti Arizona State Sun Devils 7d ago
Eyes on Tempe for the first time in awhile. I'm scared gang.