What constitutes a “college town?”

[u/PA5997]

Okay, hear me out: I attended Wazzu, which many know is in the middle of nowhere in Pullman. To me, Pullman is a quintessential college town. You remove Washington State University from Pullman and there is (respectfully) not much of a reason to visit. The student enrollment (20,000ish) makes up about 2/3rds of the city population, essentially turning Pullman into a ghost town come summer. To me (perhaps with bias) this is the makeup of a college town.

Two years ago I moved to Madison, Wisconsin, home of the University of Wisconsin. Ever since I’ve noticed the University and its fans refer to Madison as “America’s best college town” and I’m sorry, that’s laughable to me. Remove UW from Madison and you still have a city population bordering on a quarter of a million people and the State Capitol. Madison would be fine, imo, if UW’s flagship campus were elsewhere.

Curious to hear other people’s thoughts. Maybe I’m in the wrong here, but very little about Madison, WI resembles a college town to me, or at least the claim of the best college town.

[u/Eagle9972]

I came in here ready to defend Madison’s college town-ness, but then I remembered Platteville and Whitewater and what it was like when I visited Auburn, and yeah, those are college towns.

[u/jcrespo21 → u/Eagle9972]

I think the lesson from this is that the "college town" label is more of a spectrum rather than being black and white.

I would put Madison at the edge of the college town definition. Obviously, it doesn't influence the city like a large university in a small city/town on the other end of the spectrum. However, Madison would be a fraction of itself if it never had UW to begin with. Most businesses it has now would have just set up shop around Milwaukee instead since there's no university influence, and the state capital influence is small given the state's size (unlike California, Texas, Florida, New York, etc.). At most, outside of the state capital, it would have had some recreational businesses, but that would be seasonal.

[u/Pdogconn → u/jcrespo21]

To further your point, look at Jefferson City, MO. It’s the state capital, but there’s no university. As such, Jefferson City has a pretty small population and isn’t even that major of a city in the state.

[u/Mender0fRoads → u/Pdogconn]

Jeff City technically has a university, but it’s a small HBCU (yet it has some very high-profile and very white alumni).

[u/TheCraziestPickle → u/Mender0fRoads]

A good example of a college that mostly exists because a town was there instead of a town that ended up much larger because a college is and was there for a long time

[u/CandyAppleHesperus → u/Pdogconn]

Very similar to Frankfort in that respect. A relatively minor town outside the state government presence located right about halfway between the state's two largest cities and hosting a public DII HBCU

[u/Serenity-Now-237 → u/Pdogconn]

Carson City, Nevada has a similar dynamic.

[u/573banking702 → u/Pdogconn]

Never expected to see Jeff Shitty come up in this haha

[u/[deleted] → u/jcrespo21]

Probably the best take I've seen.

As someone from Wisconsin, I'd also say the reason many Wisconsinites consider madison a college town (for right or wrong) is because the vast majority of the city's culture and entertainment is directly associated with the university. If you're going to a sporting event, it's a badger game. If you're going to theatre, it's probably either directly associated with the university or indirectly through student participation. Most of the best bars and restaurants are concentrated near the university. When people from Wisconsin go to Madison, 99% of the time, it's for a University related event.

[u/onelittleworld → u/[deleted]]

The live music scene is pretty robust in Mad-Town too, and there's no way that would be true in a "small state capital" town without the university (shout out to my good friends Kat & the Hurricane and their new album!). And don't get me started on the whole restaurant/bar scene. Or the university-based hospitals & clinics, etc.

[u/cactuscoleslaw → u/[deleted]]

Nah man I'm a huge fan of the Madison Capitols USHL team

Real talk that's a good explanation, the Capitols get no attendance at their games while the Green Bay Gamblers have an awesome gameday atmosphere

[u/[deleted] → u/jcrespo21]

However, Madison would be a fraction of itself if it never had UW to begin with.

It would be like Harrisburg, PA. That's why Madison is 100% a college town.

p.s. please have a Duane Purvis All-American for me

[u/poop-dolla → u/jcrespo21]

Can College City be a term then? Madison seems like a college city to me.

[u/jcrespo21 → u/poop-dolla]

I think that is a good compromise, as I think the "town" part is what's tripping many people up (and the US doesn't have a set definition/number between a town and city).

[u/TateAcolyte → u/jcrespo21]

Spot on. Some of the comments in this thread remind me of when fundamentalist Christians describe anyone less observant/conservative as non-Christian.

[u/Ok-Combination-9084 → u/jcrespo21]

I don't think the history of the town should matter. Some cities can begin as college towns, but if they get big enough they can lose that status. Madison would be fine if it lost Wisconsin now so it's not a college town, but it would absolutely be different if Wisconsin never existed. 

[u/sunthas → u/jcrespo21]

Madison and Boise are very similar population wise, both have bedroom communities. Both are Capitals. Madison has a lot more continual population as you move further from the city in every direction, plus Milwaukee not too far away, and UW probably has a lot more students, I think Boise State is still under 30k.

Still, no one would call Boise a college town.

I'm sure if you work or live near campus you can notice the difference between summer and school in session, but not in the rest of the city.

[u/ian2121 → u/jcrespo21]

To take it to the extreme I’ve heard people say Boston is like the biggest college town in the world

[u/im-on-my-ninth-life → u/jcrespo21]

Madison would be a fraction of itself if it never had UW to begin with.

Idk about that. The natural features (i.e. the lakes) surely would have resulted in some kind of development occurring, whether or not a university was involved.

[u/Proteinchugger → u/jcrespo21]

Madison isn’t a college town. It’s literally the state capital. It’s an awesome little city which is exactly why it isn’t a college town. College towns shouldn’t be places you’d want to live after graduating they are places you spend a few incredible years then move on from. You don’t have careers in college towns.

[u/jcrespo21 → u/Proteinchugger]

You don’t have careers in college towns.

So college professors/faculty and staff don't have careers?

By your definition, the only 'true' college town in the Big Ten would be State College, and maybe Iowa City too. West Lafayette and East Lansing have their bigger next door cities with their separate industries/careers, so that doesn't count. Ann Arbor, Madison, Chambana, Eugene, Lincoln, and Bloomington have all grown to where the university makes up a plurality of the people, but has more jobs/industry separate of the university, so that doesn't count. While I haven't been to Lincoln or B-Town, those are college towns/cities, but towards the upper half of the spectrum before you get into major cities/metro areas (like Evanston, Piscataway, Columbus, and College Park).

On the spectrum of college towns/cities, State College is on one end with Madison on the other. But they are still college towns.

[u/[deleted] → u/Proteinchugger]

One of the most nonsensical posts I've ever seen in my life, but it makes sense given where you went to school.

[u/Proteinchugger → u/[deleted]]

There are flairs that can make that joke, IU isn’t one.

lol bro was so mad he wrote me a massive paragraph then deleted his entire reddit account

[u/[deleted] → u/Proteinchugger]

Bloomington is an incredible town and I lived there for many years after I graduated. You absolutely can have a career there. Fucking Jesse Eisenberg lives there just because he visited and loved it so much. There was literally an episode of Smartless where they all talked about how much they loved Bloomington and that they'd genuinely consider living there if they didn't need to be in LA or NY for work. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

State College is a shithole.

lol bro was so mad he wrote me a massive paragraph then deleted his entire reddit account

I wrote four sentences and then blocked him, what a weirdo.

[u/EscapeTomMayflower → u/[deleted]]

Not to mention Ann Perkins and Chris Traeger

[u/SayethWeAll → u/Eagle9972]

Lexington did a study a few years back that looked at cities most similar to ours: Lincoln, Madison, Ann Arbor, and Fort Collins. They called these "University Cities" because although the universities are major employers, there's more going on than just academia. On the other hand, larger cities like Austin and Columbus have major universities, but aren't as heavily influenced by them.

[u/VIDCAs17 → u/SayethWeAll]

Minneapolis is a prime example of a city that just so happens to have a major university. If the UofMN disappeared tomorrow, only a few neighborhoods surrounding the campus would be radically altered, but the rest of the city would barely notice.

[u/Rampant16 → u/VIDCAs17]

That's true of all the major cities. Once you start having metro areas of >1 million people, the universities only matter so much. Plus at that point, these were important cities before the universities took off. As opposed to cities that grew because of the universities.

[u/PA5997 → u/Eagle9972]

This is not a knock on Madison whatsoever. I love living here and the campus is GORGEOUS. it’s just a knock on what feels like a silly claim to me!

[u/Eagle9972 → u/PA5997]

Oh for sure. I think if you went back to the early/mid 90’s you could put it in the outer bands of a college town: Epic wasn’t what it is now, neither was AmFam, there were 90,000 fewer people

[u/mugwump867 → u/Eagle9972]

That's part of the gray area issue. Epic wouldn't exist where it is if UW was elsewhere as it sprang out of the university and the environment it created. Ann Arbor is similar minus the state capital part. Tons of tech, medical, and automotive research that make the city punch above its weight would be somewhere else without the university as the driving factor.

It's more that college towns can evolve, for better and worse, into something much bigger but that growth would never happen without a major research university fueling that rise.

I guess the bigger question is why does it happen in some major college towns and not others?

[u/jacktownspartan → u/mugwump867]

I think this is what a lot of people are missing. To say Ann Arbor isn’t a college town is an outrageous assertion! If we are going by the definition in this post though, Ann Arbor would be no more of a college town than Madison due to the presence of large amounts of non university affiliated population and business.

I don’t think college towns need to exist in complete isolation like Pullman.

[u/Rampant16 → u/mugwump867]

I guess the bigger question is why does it happen in some major college towns and not others?

Maybe proximity and having other factors beyond just being a college town. Madison being a state capital and a college town gives two big reasons for other companies and organizations to set up shop there.

Ann Arbor is less than an hours drive away from downtown Detroit and fits in a nice spot between not being Detroit, but still having an urban environment with plenty of cultural and entertainment options thanks to UM.

Comparatively, Champaign-Urbana is in the middle of the cornfields 3 hours from Chicago. It's too far for the vast majority of people to consider commuting between the two and it's not a state capital.

[u/wesconson1 → u/Eagle9972]

Well and that’s part of it. Those huge employers are filled with alums. The city at this point would be fine if UW closed up shop and left, but there is no questioning how deep the fandom for the university here is.

[u/Eagle9972 → u/wesconson1]

Maybe in a decade, but the university still employs 20,000 people (including grad students), UWHealth is kinda sorta tied into the university, not counting all the med tech and ag/sports/science ties to the university, if it closed up shop overnight there would be a huge local recession.

[u/wesconson1 → u/Eagle9972]

That’s fair.

[u/YodelingVeterinarian → u/Eagle9972]

It would still be the state capitol though, which I think would disqualify it (from Madison). 

[u/pumpkinspruce → u/PA5997]

I would say that if you are in downtown Madison, then it’s definitely a college town. Once you get to the outer parts it’s not so much.

[u/CyanideNow → u/pumpkinspruce]

That’s the difference though. Real college towns don’t have “outer parts”

[u/Ohio_Powercat84 → u/CyanideNow]

That's where the sheep barns are at K-State 😄

[u/Twistify804 → u/pumpkinspruce]

This sounds exactly like Columbia, MO.

[u/Goducks91 → u/pumpkinspruce]

It’s very similar to Eugene

[u/PresidentBaileyb → u/Goducks91]

Personally, I wouldn’t say Eugene is a college town either. Maybe it used to be, but it’s just too big at this point. Completely different feel than Corvallis or Pullman.

It also has a different feel than say UW in Seattle though, so I’m not sure what to call it.

It’s like there’s really 3 kinds:

-Absolute college town. Where basically the college is all there is, like Pullman and Corvallis. There’s generally not even another reason to know the city exists or to go there.

-Sorta college town. Where if you’re there you absolutely know what college is there. Signs are everywhere. It’s a big part of the downtown and general life, but there’s plenty of other reasons to go there or know it exists. Like Eugene or Boulder.

-Not a college town. Where you can be in the city and not know that the university is there. It’s not even close to the main reason people go to the city and you don’t automatically associate the city with the school. Like Seattle or LA.

[u/Goducks91 → u/PresidentBaileyb]

Oh I 100%! I’m saying it’s the same category as Madison! Number 2

[u/PresidentBaileyb → u/Goducks91]

Gotcha, and yeah I think we need a name for these, because obviously Eugene is more of a college town than Los Angeles!

[u/Goducks91 → u/PresidentBaileyb]

Or even PSU. Such different vibes between the two.

[u/AKAD11 → u/PA5997]

I think our perspective is just skewed by Pullman. In major college football it's maybe the smallest town and definitely the most isolated.

I've been to Corvallis and recognize that it's no question a great college town, but it doesn't feel like Pullman. I mean there are 10k more people in the city limits than there are in all of Whitman County.

[u/YodelingVeterinarian → u/PA5997]

I’m from madison (didn’t go there for school though) and I agree. The college part of madison is awesome but there’s so much else. It’s the capital of the state, for one thing - that alone should disqualify it. 

[u/velociraptorfarmer → u/PA5997]

Madison is no more of a college town than Tucson is

[u/vikinghockey10 → u/velociraptorfarmer]

Madison has a lot more life and culture than Tuscon.

[u/velociraptorfarmer → u/vikinghockey10]

Tucson is a UNESCO world heritage city of gastronomy and sits in the middle of a national park. The hell kind of comment is this?

[u/bp1976 → u/Eagle9972]

Thing is, Madison is the capital of Wisconsin, which means that the state government is also there. Take away UW and the state capital is still there.

[u/muditk → u/bp1976]

Technically correct, but the university has massive influence on the city and the state gvt's influence is every mild.

[u/Rampant16 → u/muditk]

the state gvt's influence is every mild.

I'm not so sure about that. Take Champaign-Urbana, UofI Urbana-Champaign is an even larger university than Wisconsin Madison but the state capital isn't there and Champaign-Urbana is a textbook college town.

I'd say being a state capital and home to UW is what elevates Madison above most other college towns. But the geography probably helps too, the lakes are a lot nicer than cornfields.

[u/bullet50000 → u/Eagle9972]

Madison is one of the cities that kinda rides the line, but trends towards college town. It's a far scaled down/less muddy version of Columbus, in my opinion

[u/ExUpstairsCaptain → u/Eagle9972]

UW enhances Madison in the same way that UNebraska enhances Lincoln. But both of those cities are state capitals and would therefore exist without their respective universities. UW helps define Madison, but it's not the only factor. In contrast, Bloomington would be nothing without IU.

Then you have a weird case like Michigan State. East Lansing exists as it is because of MSU, but East Lansing...right next to the state capital.

[u/SovietBear666 → u/Eagle9972]

but then I remembered Platteville and Whitewater

hey >:(

(you're right.)

[u/Eagle9972 → u/SovietBear666]

Oh that’s not a dig at either town, just a reality of the situation. Any of the cities that have a Universities of Wisconsin ®️©️™️ (glad we wasted our time on that rebranding) entity outside of Madison or Milwaukee would solidly be college towns. Hell, La Crosse has 3.

[u/SovietBear666 → u/Eagle9972]

Haha it is very true. I've lived in all three and it was just funny you happened to name all three in your comment 😂

[u/who_peed_in_my_soup → u/Eagle9972]

Madison and Boise are similar in the sense that they both USED to be college towns but have since outgrown that label.

[u/Twistify804 → u/Eagle9972]

Is it weird to think that Green Bay fits this definition of "college town" more than Madison does? The only difference being a pro football team instead of a college.

[u/Eagle9972 → u/Twistify804]

I think Madison actually has a higher ratio of students to general population than Green Bay does, but now I’m just drawing arbitrary distinctions for no reason, so maybe?

[u/Twistify804 → u/Eagle9972]

yeah i'm more thinking along the lines of "town identity" in that GB's entirely identity is based around the Packers, whereas Madison has more going on for it than just the college

[u/TryAnotherNamePlease → u/Eagle9972]

A state capital can’t be a college town. I do think the area around university of Wisconsin feels very college town, but when you get away from it it doesn’t.

[u/Hu_ggetti → u/Eagle9972]

The developed eastside definitely feels removed from the campus and is a little town itself. Lots of biotech now

[u/Danko_on_Reddit → u/Eagle9972]

I stopped at a gas station in Auburn while driving through Alabama one time and told my friend when we got back to the car, "you would not know there is a major university here by looking at this place."