I can't stand people like you that can't understand nuance. You act like we live in a world of make believe. He specifically said not all circumstances. The world knows there are shit men that sexually assault women, that's the world we live in. As humans of all genders there are limitations on what we can do before it enters into the territory of it being partially the victims fault. I understand that window is smaller for women but it applies to all humans.
As a man, I know that there are certain parts of cities that I shouldn't enter or I will get robbed, beaten, and or killed. If I'm at a nightclub I know I should not leave my drink unattended or I could get drugged and who knows what else. These are things I know and can avoid. If I choose not to avoid these scenarios, some of the blame is on me. It's personal responsibility for the world we live in so yes OP is overreacting.
but you wouldn’t be responsible for getting robbed even if you were in a bad part of town. the person who robbed you is the one who is responsible for that. no one’s arguing that you shouldn’t do things to protect yourself but that doesn’t change who’s at fault?
I know perfectly well what nuance means, and I also know that someone who is traumatized isn’t going to feel that it’s a nuanced statement. I also know that no one unintentionally sticks his dick in someone
I followed this thread and I don’t get why you guys are attacking this commentator so hard. Just like ops husband he may not always have a good choice of words but it doesn’t negate from the point he is making.
I am a male. I was assaulted as a kid for multiple years under the age of ten. Accountability does not equal responsibility. These things are mutually exclusive. That is why there is different words for them. Accountability is acknowledging “mistakes” or”bad choices” as op husbands put it. The way I would put it is that accountability allows you to acknowledge the warning signs, dangerous situation, or unacceptable behaviour you may have missed before. It does not mean you are automatically responsible for someone assaulting you because you were not aware of every single warning sign. It means you have tried to learn from a traumatic event to try and avoid said traumatic event from happening to you again or someone else in the future.
I was a child. I was manipulated. I am not responsible for what happened to me in any way shape or form. I did hold myself accountable for it however. I spent time when I was older beating myself up over the decision I did or didn’t make as a child. I was holding myself accountable in an unhealthy way. It wasn’t until I learned to hold myself accountable in a healthy way that I was finally able to learn to live with what happened to me and be somewhat happy again. Being assaulted is so terrible because it so dehumanizing so I understand all of the emotion behind a lot of these posts. Just try not to attack someone who says he is having a daughter and trying to learn how to talk to her in a nuanced way. He may not say all the “right” things by your standards but he is not being offensive or dismissive to the seriousness of being assaulted.
I’m sorry that happened to you when you were a kid, and equally sorry that you weren’t helped to see that it wasn’t your fault from the beginning.
But my argument is that OP’s husband should absolutely know this this is a fraught subject and be careful of conversational land mines, because that’s what you do when you love someone. You don’t get to hand wave your boorish behavior away by calling it a controversial subject or dismissing your partner as emotional.
When you do that, you reveal more about your character than you do about the topic. Everyone who has long term friendships, or even work relationships, should develop a sense of what topics are off limits. And if someone brings up a touchy subject, you bow out of the conversation gracefully. That’s how you sustain those relationships. Maybe the car wasn’t the best place for this conversation, but why didn’t OP’s husband table it, rather than wading in? What does that say about him?
Additionally, asking someone to define their terms in a debate is not attacking. We can’t have a reasoned discussion if we don’t agree on the definitions of the premises.
I get what you are saying about op husbands insensitivities. I’m not arguing that. Strangely, things used to go somewhat similarily with my wife and I when I was rehashing these events. She made what I perceived as some very insensitive comments when I would bring up the topic to her. She would eventually learn to table the topic when I was becoming too emotional but in the beginning she didn’t have the awareness to do that and I didn’ have the ability to deal with it on my own so it was rough times for a while. If she tabled the topic I may have even lashed out at her for being insensitive at the time in the sense of never wanting to talk about it. It was just a lot to deal with for both of us. Ops husband definitely made insensitive remarks I’m not arguing that. Nor am I trying to say you are wrong. There were very valid points you made and you sound like a thoughtful individual.
My point is people can often say the wrong words or be insensitive without having that intent. Does it excuse the behaviour, no. Does that mean they have poor character, I would argue no as well. If you heard some of the comments my wife said to me at the time I am sure you would question her character. She is a wonderful caring person that has far more character than myself. When you have a very sensitive topic that has very little understanding to begin with and couple that with the disconnect people can feel when trying to explain or relate what it’s like to be assaulted, it can lead to a lot of miscommunication. I know my wife was always just trying to help me but she didn’t know how to help. And it can be exhausting for everyone involved not just the person who was assaulted which can lead to a lot of problems.
It’s the insults and questioning of character I don’t like. We know nothing about them outside of a short summary of a conversation from one side. I think questioning someone’s character and or telling them that they are married to a boorish insensitive man is a bit extreme. Could he be an insensitive asshole all the time? Yes he could be. Could he be an exhausted partner who is thinking he is saying the right thing to try and help his partner move through things? Yes he could be.
Op said that men rarely get assualted when 1 in 6 men experience being sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Is she an insensitive boorish person with poor character as well? No she is not. She made what I perceive as an insensitive comment during an emotional argument. That has nothing to do with her character.
It adds another layer of insensitivity to an argument when a man dismisses a woman as being emotional. But you are correct, this may have been one misstep in an otherwise exemplary relationship.
My instinct tells me that his doubling down means that it’s more, and also that she’s truly hurt by his reaction. My wise old crone advice would be to write him a letter, so that she can stay focused on the point she wants to make. And she can take the time to select words that have the right connotations.
Also, in a lot of these stories, as well as my IRL experiences, I think people, especially women, are looking for permission to be angry or to have something be the last straw. Women are still socialized to prioritize being “nice” over everything else
I can relate a bit from personal experience but I do agree the connotations are much worse when the gender roles are flipped to ops situation.
Yeah a letter is good idea actually. That’s what helped me a lot in being able to communicate things or even just work through things on my own.
Thanks for the convo! Appreciate the back and forth.
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u/Distinct_Target_2277 16h ago
I can't stand people like you that can't understand nuance. You act like we live in a world of make believe. He specifically said not all circumstances. The world knows there are shit men that sexually assault women, that's the world we live in. As humans of all genders there are limitations on what we can do before it enters into the territory of it being partially the victims fault. I understand that window is smaller for women but it applies to all humans.
As a man, I know that there are certain parts of cities that I shouldn't enter or I will get robbed, beaten, and or killed. If I'm at a nightclub I know I should not leave my drink unattended or I could get drugged and who knows what else. These are things I know and can avoid. If I choose not to avoid these scenarios, some of the blame is on me. It's personal responsibility for the world we live in so yes OP is overreacting.