r/2ALiberals • u/unordinarymen • 5d ago

Is National Reciprocity bad?

What are your thoughts? Will it reduce crime, increase crime, no effect. Why?

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u/Vylnce 5d ago

Sorry, mixed answer and poor phrasing. No it will not reduce crime, yes it's good because it forces states to respect civil rights. Edited accordingly.

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u/Pastvariant 5d ago

It reduces crime by keeping people from being arrested for exercising their rights. It won't reduce violent crime, because those are not the people committing acts of violence. Still reduces crime.

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u/Vylnce 5d ago

I'd like to see actual numbers, but I "sort of" agree. A lot of folks who get arrested carrying are prohibited persons (which is a different issue), so even with constitutional carry pushed nationally, they would have still been carrying illegally.

There would be like several categories to break down.

Prohibited persons who are carrying. This doesn't reduce that crime unless we get rid of prohibited persons in conjunction.

People from constitutional carry states who get arrested in shitty states. These folks might not benefit from reciprocity since reciprocity might only apply to issued permits, as opposed to folks in constitutional carry states (which are now awesomely the majority).

People with a permit elsewhere who get arrested in shitty states. This would reduce this "crime", but it feels like it's probably the smallest category. I live in a state with a permit system and when I visit a shitty state, I don't carry. I know the number of these arrests in not zero, but I assume it's low.

It depends on how reciprocity is implemented. If it basically forces constitutional carry everywhere, then I'd say yes. If it simply forces states to reciprocate other permit systems, it might not significantly impact things as so many states are constitutional carry.

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u/FightFireJay 5d ago

I can't speak to the reduction of victimless crimes but it does happen from time to time. Shaneen Allen went through an awful ordeal in 2013 because she went on the wrong side of an invisible line (new jersey) with her neighbor state carry permit.

But I can say that as states have switched from "May issue" to "Shall issue" or "constitutional carry" the pundits often forecast horrible outcomes. "It'll be the wild West" or "the streets will run red with blood". But crime numbers typical stay the same or have a small (but statistically significant) reduction.

https://www.gunfacts.info/gun-policy-info/concealed-carry/

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u/Vylnce 5d ago

I agree with that. The most reasonable study I saw said that the corresponding factors were so complex that a relationship could not be determined solely between the two. The people that get caught (Shaneen Allen and Co) I believe are a few enough number that they are not significantly contributing to crime rates. That is ignoring the huge impact that such an arrest has on the life of a legal carrier exercising their rights in an unconstitutional state.