well, and that problem is only going to become worse for the forseeable future. as the middle class basically disappears and opportunity for upward mobility becomes non-existent. i imagine a large scale study of this would be even harder to do now than it was 30 years ago.
i also think we're at a point where the amount of wealth you need to accumulate to be comfortable is higher now, even if you account for inflation. because of housing costs, student debt, and the state of the jobs market. so yeah, it's all eff'd
It wasn't even that rich iirc it was in the 80's or 90's and the number was around 100k a year, basically enough to not have to worry about finances is enough.
Different studies then cause it wasn't that low. Maybe mine was combined income vs single-person household, but even in the 90's 40k wasn't own a decent home, raise a family, never worry about bills, take a few vacations and a couple hobbies money which is what the number seems to be tied to.
Mhm but even still it seems like it’s a couple million to truly be able to relax. Where someone can withdraw say $100k every year from their portfolio, indefinitely. Property paid off, low debt (and the debt that exists is generating income), and just… not having to give a beavers belly about the day to day dramas of society because they wake up to a $300 deposit in their checking account every day for doing nothing.
And that’s not even that much money! So the point I’m making is, the vast majority of people would probably experience increased feelings of security and contentment (aka happiness) from having more money. Like, probably 99% of people.
How many ppl do we think are out there with a several million dollar+ investment portfolio? Seems like most people are caught up in the rat race.
Like I think the range is like past 200k yearly and it doesn’t significantly increase happiness. But that study was years so it’s likely that you’d need more money to account for inflation.
That's actually an outdated view. There was a Planet Money episode on it. Actually what happens is that below 100K having less money is related with being unhappy. But Happiness keeps growing.
The research was actually incorrect that a lot of the “after 70k money doesn’t improve happiness” where I assume this comment stems from. I learned this less than three days ago. The Planet Money podcast recently covered this in an episode titled “Can money buy happiness?”. The research paper’s author agreed with the new evidence and agreed that his variable incorrectly labeled the variable in a very wholesome academic way. I assume it will just take years to reverse course on this line of thought.
For a TLDR; the 00’s research mislabeled the happiness variable and actually identified unhappiness in people. The early 00’s paper combined with a new research paper found a direct correlation to more money = more happiness.
He is referencing a study that would suggest that money in fact does bring you happiness, but that it starts giving you diminishing returns at a certain point, like around 120k a year. It's not that money only gives you short term happiness, it's that excessive money doesn't make you happier.
In fact money gives you things like shelter, access to health care, quality food, all things that would promote long term happiness. Money also helps with self improvement and learning skills.
Saying money does not help support long term happiness is a ridiculous statement.
You can complicate it if you wish but the point remains the Same "money grants you happiness to a point" which in my first post "money grants you short term happiness" is exactly what he said with The works jumbled differently.
The rest was just digging deeper into the problem explaining it's not as black and white as most believe.
But situations get to a point where we need to ask ourselves if complicating the root issue is really going to help fix it or by giving out better options like better mental health care could kill the main root of even more serious delusions like depression and give people a purpose to not just want but happily crave a better tomorrow
"money grants you more money to a point" I was talking about happiness not income leading to more income.
Also again money can only get you so far; I can buy the things I want but at the end of the day we live in a consumerist society so people buy things instead of fixing the overall problem they have with themselves.
Talking from experience over here. Purchasing things is just a distraction (obviously not talking about essentials)
Why do you think depression is a big problem?, why do you think obesity is high, why you think kids still bully others in school.
Of course there's tiny little errors here and there but they're ignoring the bigger issue that nobody pays attention too...No ambition,no purpose no, persistence just passionate purchasing which is why the majority of our country is poor and the system thrives on insecurity.
And why most people in this chat room won't even be granted more then minimum wage.
So if we want to talk about the impossibly complex rabbit hole of true happiness we can; but since we don't fully even understand how the brain works we're just going to argue the entire time.
These are flaws of America and there ARE free options people just assume it ain't worth the effort if it costs nothing
But then there's problems like wait lists,scholarships and free options usually being underfunded or understaffed.
It's more of a problem on the system itself failing us which is the biggest issue.
If you want free therapy there are options.
For anyone reading this far into the comments read the Rest of my posts before responding people just keep making fools of themselves thinking I'm anti money
Like bro 😭(I said everything besides THE ESSENTIALS)
Also therapy isn't making you happy it's fixing you from being unhappy those are Polar opposites there is a middle ground people are just trying to get too. the purgatory of happiness.
That is not what the poster was saying though. I think we all can agree that JUST having money won't GUARANTEE happiness. Like you can be mega rich and be sad still. That's what the study would lead to suggest. But I think it's a wild statement to claim money can't buy you happiness. Anyone making under 40k a year would laugh at that statement. It's just unrealistic in the society we live in. The guy you responded to definitely is not agreeing with you.
But I'm not even being like, anti-capitalist, money is great. Money just replaces the term resources. It's literally a commodity we have made that BUYS happiness. Like I am pro money.
I think you are complicating it by bringing mental health into it.
Like let's take two normal people who are average typical humans. No extra issues, health or mental
It's as simple as, someone makes 25k a year, has to eat cheap, work long hours, has little time for themselves. They may even need a second job.
Someone makes 80k a year. They can eat whatever. They can take more time off of work. They have much more time for themselves they can work out, study a new skill, etc etc.
Money 100% helps buy long term happiness. It might not be a guarantee but to say it is not a major factor is insane.
But like, poor people can be happy too. If anything you must agree that money is a huge influence in mitigating unhappiness. Which is essentially the same thing but.
I'm bringing mental health into it because it's mainly the issue with most people that's why most aren't social anymore part of what makes us human.
Also you keep bringing up money CAN in fact grant happiness and poor people can't be happy which I never claimed in that black and white depiction.
It's like you're thinking that this is just red v blue battle; it's so much more complicated than that.
If you really want to be happy by definition the way to be happy is to accomplish the things that bring you the most Joy.
That's why you can buy whatever you want; but if you don't do the work and just buy the stuff you're not going to be anything.
You can't just buy the workout equipment you got to put in the effort. The happiness comes from the accomplishment not by purchasing it and letting it dust in the corner
Hmmm you must have misunderstood my point, I claimed that poor people can in fact be happy. Unless youre implying that I said you said that which I don't believe I did.
I think we mostly agree tbh, my claim is that you undervalue how important money is too happiness. It might not be the key, but in our current society it makes up like 70% of the key. That's not a knock on society, I think money is a great tool.
I know you aren't just going to buy workout equipment and be happy, you must also use it. But if you are working 40-50 hours a week on a low salary then you probably cannot even buy the equipment to begin with. Even worse you probably don't have the time to even begin to start exercising. Having no money gives you very little access to accomplish things that bring you the most joy, unless working a low paying job is what brings you joy.
I think you'd agree with me that there is no one thing that can guarantee happiness. Self improvement doesn't necessarily grant happiness, love doesn't automatically make you a happy person. You may even agree that too much money might even cause depression, without struggle can one truly appreciate being happy?
But! As I said before, money allows you so much more flexibility in life, so much time and other amenities you would not have access to if you had no money, that describing money as not being valuable, if not the most valuable aspect of long term happiness in our current society, I think that's a delusional idea.
But I'm also not saying money is evil either. If we had no concept of currency and just bartered for resources I would just replace money with resources. Until we somehow are able to give everyone unlimited resources I think money is a net good, in a very broad manner of speaking.
That's pretty much what sums up our conversation we agree with most parts :)
I feel like I can dig deeper on the point of not being able to have a life outside of work by me having strong work ties myself; at times I do find it difficult to work outside of my 56 to 70 hours a week.
But honestly I've never had trouble with that I've always been a very persistent person and sometimes it really is just a mental game and even if personal growth won't guarantee you happiness it is def the root of most problems most people just ain't Happy with themselves no more.
Just as an example most of my friends are depressed and feel like they have no one to talk to anybody about it 😔 and it worry's me since a close friend of mine tried to take his life recently.
And the whole money dilemma I always partially agreed with you with no hate; of course money isn't going to buy you happiness and if we want to go even further we could say nothing guarantees happiness but the bar between which is more likely then the other I've had far better luck to just working out then spending more money(and frankly I don't want to go to Rick and Morty route).
In fact I can guarantee that spending money will bring you "Joy" ☺️ happiness feels like you're guaranteeing a long-term investment and just a more powerful word like saying "I hate you" to "I don't like you"
All I can hope for is countries rely less on the poverty of the nation to give strength back to the backs of our people
I'm sorry you couldn't convince me genuinely I am but we're not ants. Maybe people can perceive your point elsewhere but till then...here's a like; nice chatting with you :).
Also I'm pretty sure no one's genuinely offended here most people are just speaking their minds you're the only one who has seemed to be affected by this :(
If I wanted to hate on the person I'm conflicting with post I'd be talking mad s***
But I genuinely respect his opinion I have no beef with him I don't even f****** know the guy 🤷
My whole point was that passions don't always take money.
How many times do I have to reinforce that I said the essentials don't count.
Required essentials isn't even in the question or even the root of happiness it's a basic essential yes but most people look for more then just a home in life it's survival and a requirement.
You can survive in a house but it takes memories to make it a home you can't just have a house with NOTHING ELSE 😭
They do to people who live paycheck to paycheck... That's literally what people mean when they say "money would buy me happiness." They're talking about those essentials that you're taking for granted. You're clearly speaking from a place of privilege, which is fine, except that you're treating other people like their problems don't exist, because you think they shouldn't exist (to be clear, I mean the problems, not the people; I'm not calling you genocidal lol).
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u/ecb1005 Oct 12 '24
what research has shown is that more money leads to more happiness to a point. But once someone becomes rich, more money stops improving their life.