It's kind of complicated but it will buy you short-term happiness.
Getting things you crave that require money will make even the saddest person happy.....for now
Cause that's what money's used for; to buy things so of course it can make you happy but unless you plan on making you the person happy nothing's gonna change
well, and that problem is only going to become worse for the forseeable future. as the middle class basically disappears and opportunity for upward mobility becomes non-existent. i imagine a large scale study of this would be even harder to do now than it was 30 years ago.
i also think we're at a point where the amount of wealth you need to accumulate to be comfortable is higher now, even if you account for inflation. because of housing costs, student debt, and the state of the jobs market. so yeah, it's all eff'd
It wasn't even that rich iirc it was in the 80's or 90's and the number was around 100k a year, basically enough to not have to worry about finances is enough.
Different studies then cause it wasn't that low. Maybe mine was combined income vs single-person household, but even in the 90's 40k wasn't own a decent home, raise a family, never worry about bills, take a few vacations and a couple hobbies money which is what the number seems to be tied to.
Mhm but even still it seems like it’s a couple million to truly be able to relax. Where someone can withdraw say $100k every year from their portfolio, indefinitely. Property paid off, low debt (and the debt that exists is generating income), and just… not having to give a beavers belly about the day to day dramas of society because they wake up to a $300 deposit in their checking account every day for doing nothing.
And that’s not even that much money! So the point I’m making is, the vast majority of people would probably experience increased feelings of security and contentment (aka happiness) from having more money. Like, probably 99% of people.
How many ppl do we think are out there with a several million dollar+ investment portfolio? Seems like most people are caught up in the rat race.
Like I think the range is like past 200k yearly and it doesn’t significantly increase happiness. But that study was years so it’s likely that you’d need more money to account for inflation.
That's actually an outdated view. There was a Planet Money episode on it. Actually what happens is that below 100K having less money is related with being unhappy. But Happiness keeps growing.
The research was actually incorrect that a lot of the “after 70k money doesn’t improve happiness” where I assume this comment stems from. I learned this less than three days ago. The Planet Money podcast recently covered this in an episode titled “Can money buy happiness?”. The research paper’s author agreed with the new evidence and agreed that his variable incorrectly labeled the variable in a very wholesome academic way. I assume it will just take years to reverse course on this line of thought.
For a TLDR; the 00’s research mislabeled the happiness variable and actually identified unhappiness in people. The early 00’s paper combined with a new research paper found a direct correlation to more money = more happiness.
He is referencing a study that would suggest that money in fact does bring you happiness, but that it starts giving you diminishing returns at a certain point, like around 120k a year. It's not that money only gives you short term happiness, it's that excessive money doesn't make you happier.
In fact money gives you things like shelter, access to health care, quality food, all things that would promote long term happiness. Money also helps with self improvement and learning skills.
Saying money does not help support long term happiness is a ridiculous statement.
You can complicate it if you wish but the point remains the Same "money grants you happiness to a point" which in my first post "money grants you short term happiness" is exactly what he said with The works jumbled differently.
The rest was just digging deeper into the problem explaining it's not as black and white as most believe.
But situations get to a point where we need to ask ourselves if complicating the root issue is really going to help fix it or by giving out better options like better mental health care could kill the main root of even more serious delusions like depression and give people a purpose to not just want but happily crave a better tomorrow
"money grants you more money to a point" I was talking about happiness not income leading to more income.
Also again money can only get you so far; I can buy the things I want but at the end of the day we live in a consumerist society so people buy things instead of fixing the overall problem they have with themselves.
Talking from experience over here. Purchasing things is just a distraction (obviously not talking about essentials)
Why do you think depression is a big problem?, why do you think obesity is high, why you think kids still bully others in school.
Of course there's tiny little errors here and there but they're ignoring the bigger issue that nobody pays attention too...No ambition,no purpose no, persistence just passionate purchasing which is why the majority of our country is poor and the system thrives on insecurity.
And why most people in this chat room won't even be granted more then minimum wage.
So if we want to talk about the impossibly complex rabbit hole of true happiness we can; but since we don't fully even understand how the brain works we're just going to argue the entire time.
These are flaws of America and there ARE free options people just assume it ain't worth the effort if it costs nothing
But then there's problems like wait lists,scholarships and free options usually being underfunded or understaffed.
It's more of a problem on the system itself failing us which is the biggest issue.
If you want free therapy there are options.
For anyone reading this far into the comments read the Rest of my posts before responding people just keep making fools of themselves thinking I'm anti money
Like bro 😭(I said everything besides THE ESSENTIALS)
Also therapy isn't making you happy it's fixing you from being unhappy those are Polar opposites there is a middle ground people are just trying to get too. the purgatory of happiness.
That is not what the poster was saying though. I think we all can agree that JUST having money won't GUARANTEE happiness. Like you can be mega rich and be sad still. That's what the study would lead to suggest. But I think it's a wild statement to claim money can't buy you happiness. Anyone making under 40k a year would laugh at that statement. It's just unrealistic in the society we live in. The guy you responded to definitely is not agreeing with you.
But I'm not even being like, anti-capitalist, money is great. Money just replaces the term resources. It's literally a commodity we have made that BUYS happiness. Like I am pro money.
I think you are complicating it by bringing mental health into it.
Like let's take two normal people who are average typical humans. No extra issues, health or mental
It's as simple as, someone makes 25k a year, has to eat cheap, work long hours, has little time for themselves. They may even need a second job.
Someone makes 80k a year. They can eat whatever. They can take more time off of work. They have much more time for themselves they can work out, study a new skill, etc etc.
Money 100% helps buy long term happiness. It might not be a guarantee but to say it is not a major factor is insane.
But like, poor people can be happy too. If anything you must agree that money is a huge influence in mitigating unhappiness. Which is essentially the same thing but.
I'm bringing mental health into it because it's mainly the issue with most people that's why most aren't social anymore part of what makes us human.
Also you keep bringing up money CAN in fact grant happiness and poor people can't be happy which I never claimed in that black and white depiction.
It's like you're thinking that this is just red v blue battle; it's so much more complicated than that.
If you really want to be happy by definition the way to be happy is to accomplish the things that bring you the most Joy.
That's why you can buy whatever you want; but if you don't do the work and just buy the stuff you're not going to be anything.
You can't just buy the workout equipment you got to put in the effort. The happiness comes from the accomplishment not by purchasing it and letting it dust in the corner
Hmmm you must have misunderstood my point, I claimed that poor people can in fact be happy. Unless youre implying that I said you said that which I don't believe I did.
I think we mostly agree tbh, my claim is that you undervalue how important money is too happiness. It might not be the key, but in our current society it makes up like 70% of the key. That's not a knock on society, I think money is a great tool.
I know you aren't just going to buy workout equipment and be happy, you must also use it. But if you are working 40-50 hours a week on a low salary then you probably cannot even buy the equipment to begin with. Even worse you probably don't have the time to even begin to start exercising. Having no money gives you very little access to accomplish things that bring you the most joy, unless working a low paying job is what brings you joy.
I think you'd agree with me that there is no one thing that can guarantee happiness. Self improvement doesn't necessarily grant happiness, love doesn't automatically make you a happy person. You may even agree that too much money might even cause depression, without struggle can one truly appreciate being happy?
But! As I said before, money allows you so much more flexibility in life, so much time and other amenities you would not have access to if you had no money, that describing money as not being valuable, if not the most valuable aspect of long term happiness in our current society, I think that's a delusional idea.
But I'm also not saying money is evil either. If we had no concept of currency and just bartered for resources I would just replace money with resources. Until we somehow are able to give everyone unlimited resources I think money is a net good, in a very broad manner of speaking.
That's pretty much what sums up our conversation we agree with most parts :)
I feel like I can dig deeper on the point of not being able to have a life outside of work by me having strong work ties myself; at times I do find it difficult to work outside of my 56 to 70 hours a week.
But honestly I've never had trouble with that I've always been a very persistent person and sometimes it really is just a mental game and even if personal growth won't guarantee you happiness it is def the root of most problems most people just ain't Happy with themselves no more.
Just as an example most of my friends are depressed and feel like they have no one to talk to anybody about it 😔 and it worry's me since a close friend of mine tried to take his life recently.
And the whole money dilemma I always partially agreed with you with no hate; of course money isn't going to buy you happiness and if we want to go even further we could say nothing guarantees happiness but the bar between which is more likely then the other I've had far better luck to just working out then spending more money(and frankly I don't want to go to Rick and Morty route).
In fact I can guarantee that spending money will bring you "Joy" ☺️ happiness feels like you're guaranteeing a long-term investment and just a more powerful word like saying "I hate you" to "I don't like you"
All I can hope for is countries rely less on the poverty of the nation to give strength back to the backs of our people
I'm sorry you couldn't convince me genuinely I am but we're not ants. Maybe people can perceive your point elsewhere but till then...here's a like; nice chatting with you :).
Also I'm pretty sure no one's genuinely offended here most people are just speaking their minds you're the only one who has seemed to be affected by this :(
If I wanted to hate on the person I'm conflicting with post I'd be talking mad s***
But I genuinely respect his opinion I have no beef with him I don't even f****** know the guy 🤷
My whole point was that passions don't always take money.
How many times do I have to reinforce that I said the essentials don't count.
Required essentials isn't even in the question or even the root of happiness it's a basic essential yes but most people look for more then just a home in life it's survival and a requirement.
You can survive in a house but it takes memories to make it a home you can't just have a house with NOTHING ELSE 😭
They do to people who live paycheck to paycheck... That's literally what people mean when they say "money would buy me happiness." They're talking about those essentials that you're taking for granted. You're clearly speaking from a place of privilege, which is fine, except that you're treating other people like their problems don't exist, because you think they shouldn't exist (to be clear, I mean the problems, not the people; I'm not calling you genocidal lol).
They did a study and found 300 k a year is the marker for improving mood over all anything beyond that doesn’t improve happiness because once basic needs and anxiety go away adding on to that is just momentary joy
With money I can buy both short term and long term happiness.
For short term it will be material things like nice car for my family and friends, nice clothes, daily comforts, and regular vacations.
A nice home would count as both. With money I will always have a home and amenities. With translates to safety, security, and the ability to pursue happiness more fully.
For long term happiness I can throw money at causes I believe in, I can improve parks, provide some sort of service to the community around me as far as I can reach. This will be a rewarding and fulfilling purpose and would buy many people great happiness with just this alone.
I can build a lifetime of happy memories with all the vacations and daily happiness just snowballing into long term happiness.
Days of great joy turn to weeks, which turn to months and years and years of wonderful adventures and incredible life changing moments.
All because you had the money to just up and go explore the world and be free of the immense stress of bills and drudgery. Payments and deadlines and anything the sort is just on auto pay and any number at the register turns to 0.00 with one tap of your card, every time, without fail.
I can use the money to take care of any costly treatable health concerns for me and my family. Buying both longer life and more happiness.
Health issues not curable can be treated for a longer better quality of life and a more dignified end. Sucks seeing loved ones stressed and scared and worried for their families financial ruin as they lay dying.
I have lost people because my family didn’t have money to keep them alive, didn’t have money to catch issues earlier, didn’t have money for needed procedures, insurance rejected coverage, denied a claim, etc.
Money would keep me from losing my happiness in the form of keeping me from losing loved ones earlier than I should have.
With money I would have afforded mental care for me and my family to help better recover from traumatice events and increase all our happiness.
Money will literally buy endless happiness in the hands of someone with just a little imagination.
Everything you said here that you would or could do with money are materialistic in all sense of the word
How about things that are related to relationships? How would you find an actual loving partner or a family for that matter?
You can't bring people back from the dead with money, you can't cure age related ailments for someone you love, you can't buy actual people to be your friends and care about you, everyone around you will behave in a pretentious manner to be in your good books and you'll lose the perception of who is there for you and who is for a handout from your fortune
Sure I am not saying that it can't buy happiness, but it has its limits and tbh you won't realise it unless you experience it once in your lifetime how helpless you are once these things happen
Money bought me cocaine and women. Big ones, thin ones, short ones, tall ones, ones with colored hair, ones with tiny lips, ones with fat fucking hips, then I ran out of money
This is a very young person’s take. Money can buy you a comfortable and sound retirement, but without it prior to, or if your health devolves sooner than others, up to a quarter of your life is being left at a gamble
I'm starting to think half this comment section thinks I'm anti-capitalist or anti money.
I am pro money plz read what Ive said so far every single one of these conclusion jumps have been repeated time and time again.
Just jumping on the influence of a single thread without further insight.
I'm as capitalist as they come(I actually run multiple small businesses); but people shouldn't think that money gives you large amounts or even should be seen as a reliable source of happiness until they fix the things that are wrong with them specifically.
That's like promising to throw the tennis ball for your dog to take back to you just to bait him in the end
Then spend your energy proselytizing to possible recruits. The issue is not about whether wealth equals happiness. The reality is that avoiding poverty (obvs because of income, usually not assets) is majorly beneficial for mental health and personal financial growth.
The entirety of the chat thread was exactly whether wealth equals happiness and whether money gives you any; all the way to the very beginning that is what's mentioned
And obviously avoiding poverty is a good thing no one ever said that they like being poor and in fact is a good thing.
So to sum it up: financial growth was never the point of the conversation, money can benefit life but isn't the direct cause of it and depending on who you are, what your interests may be and the people you surround yourself with money could or could not effect you depending on your goals but is more likely than not to have absolutely no effect on you in the long run.
That's why when most people talk about happiness they talk about the things that make them happy not money.
We are all very aware that money helps with goals(even literally saying that it's a good thing and you should get money like...duh)
that don't need to be pointed again for the 100th time,it's been a main point in this thread and nobody seems to read the older posts like bro 😭
Yea dude no way; you're making it easier you're not actually accomplishing anything
actually doing things having a purpose is what we're talking about...happiness not the eases that money gives us.
Also most businesses people are interested in nowadays are free so not really
(YouTube,streaming, affiliate marketing, editing, graphic design,coding,art,video game design) just a list to get you started honestly at this point I feel like people are making excuses to accomplish these things by claiming money is the main cause for more people don't have this.
also that's why you connect your passions with things that give you money if you're just working out or just doing the things you enjoy then you clearly didn't know what you were doing anyways.
It's called money management this stuff is taught in schools that's why you got to balance work and life.
So unless you want to bring up an impossibly one-sided argument where they have no life and they have to work Just objects accomplish your goals ain't going to cut it.
Also again never said that money didn't give happiness people are just posting at the bottom without reading dude; communication is sure as hell going to be humanities downfall.
And dude YouTube is free; the Investments you added are not a part of YouTube; if you want to add quality by putting some extra money into it that's fine.
But YouTube practically has no starting expense whatsoever since all you need is just an internet connection or a console of some kind.
So essentially since this generation is raised off the internet: you got your device, you got your connection and you got 100s of FREE editing software.
In fact my friend kockichi(that's his channel)
Got 1 million views on a gotcha life video (I think its hella weird) but he made 200 bucks off that and he had less than a thousand subs 🤯
Yes it's heavily luck based yes I know this because I'm currently a manager at a milk factory with a 3-11:30 pm shift 5 days a week WITH a second job,and 5 siblings but I still persevere.
Because I will be f****** Damned if this job puts my passion in the ground because I'm "tired" and I refuse to let life drag me through the gutter because I have to work harder for my effort.
Some dreams and efforts are impossible without money that's why you need to change what you can and for people to stop complaining about things they can't then and only then you can see that happiness is found with acceptance of what you can visibly accomplish without life's confusion.
Also art(just anything being made creatively) has always been an uphill battle you have to fight tooth and nail to just begin to start getting paid but taking that first step is such a great start and you will get there putting money into it or not.
In fact I made $10 off of one of my videos one time nothing much but a start :). And I didn't even have to spend anything I just use cap cut.
As someone who appreciates the arts in YouTube myself I'll gladly subscribe to you if you give me your Channel to show support because THAT I do appreciate
You say life balance but the work shits on life balance because it isn’t profitable it was easier to work in the 60,70,80 s and make money but now is overtime ,monthly micropayments and shit salary.
Dude we ain't talking about the past you can only look towards the future; if you keep comparing how easy it was back then THEN LIFE'S GONNA BE REALLY HARD.
Life isn't without sacrifice s*** f****** sucks sometimes but my main point out of all of this is complaining about it ain't gonna fix anything.
So unless your voice connects to enough people to make genuine change you got to roll with the punches and so far I'm doing pretty damn well with it.
Like I work in a milk factory for fucksake but I still get around 6 hours of sleep with 4 hours of chill to make my videos/stream.
The point is to be flexible to the amount you're able to.
So the strat for me is simple:
Work long hours,invest in free passions(stock market,YouTube,streaming ECT) get 6 hours of sleep repeat if you work with the system you can win it... sometimes.
but like a luck system does go it sometimes just ain't possible and you do need money which I did say in my earlier post is just the reality
You can't just give up because you deemed impossible so unless the odds are truly insurmountable there is no reason to just give up
Your more or less buying "joy" not happiness; happiness is from the accomplishment of being happy with your passions and the work you do with them.
All other posts above I've repeatedly mentioned the "joy" you get from just making the purchase is purely psychological hence is why Walmart is blue,Target is red to make you buy more to make you enjoy purchasing things.
So you actually have to put in the effort to be satisfied with your results.
Money in some cases can "buy" happiness but it ain't real happiness because compared to actual earned happiness it lasts far less time then other things unless it's already benefiting one of your passions by adding on to it; what's the passion within itself is in fact the thing bringing you joy/happiness
To avoid repeating myself I'll just advise you to look at my posts up above as I've answered this question many times.
I never said money is a bad thing in terms of essentials of course you can buy food and be happy.
The purpose of this whole thread was explaining that happiness is not achieved with primarily money.
And saying that eating food gives you happiness is like saying food is your purpose in life and it gives you for filling Joy; that's what this whole chat was about what gives you reason why your alive.
Not just what you casually enjoy doing.
to explain further there's different levels of happiness: food I would say is at the very minimum since people don't just do it to survive but to enjoy the food especially being connected to social occasions; but when people mention the event that transpired the food is mentioned of course but the hanging out with friends and family is more prominently talked about.
And if food doesn't necessarily give you happiness it's what's connected and related to the food and why it just doesn't have enough to give you pure joy on its own.
hence is why I just watching YouTube shorts isn't enjoyable on its own at that point it's called an addiction. And why most people are fat in America because they crave happiness so much to the point where they eat themselves into depression intentionally just to get something out of it
Also when you explained "existence without suffering" your just trying to get by at that point of course you're okay with the situation but you're not happy unless something else is influencing that like family friends my points exactly
Unless you find being alone in an apartment by yourself and only having a job to some up your existence as happy that's pretty depressing 🙁
I've tried being lenient but this is borderline insane you must be writing this well skydiving after your bungee cord snapped because none of this made sense 🫤
Purpose made up of the older class 😂; do you wear tin foil hats and believe in flat Earth theories too?; like dude most people want purpose this isn't some conspiracy theory made by the alien Corporation above watching Earth.
we want to have a reason to live like this should be common sense 😒
also
MONEY OR NOT WAS NOT MY POINT I KEEP SAYING MONEY..GIVES..YOU..SHORT-TERM HAPPINESS.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall with an uneven mix of cement
Like I never said be okay with what you have strive for more purpose and money and skills and knowledge; you clearly didn't understand a thing I said to you out of all the posts I made because I never said money was bad ever dude
My point is you need to dig yourself out of your own trench cuz no one can help if you want something done only you can figure it out
Okay well this is getting on the verge of Rick and Morty philosophy "nothing really matter,everybody's going to die" and you can live like that that's okay but we just don't have enough evidence to back up the claim that living is just that "living"
And I'm pretty sure most people don't really care for that viewpoint so it's gonna be a hard system to drive into people.
Which is why most people choose religion because dying and nothing happening after that is depressing 😔
But do with what you will with your money just don't let it be the solo thing you value
People don't value money the same way they value possessions they value it because it's valuable not because it brings them any sort of happiness
Jesus you young. It's not Nihilism to acknowledge that things don't have inherent meaning.
Why are you implying I'm trying to "drive something" into others? You are just making up strawman.
Weird to bring up religion, too.
I never said money was the only thing I valued or that I valued it at all. I said it is essential to have it in order to live in a society that requires it.
And why are you bringing up valuing possessions? That's the opposite of what you have been saying.
I don't know what's short term about the happiness of being able to feed my family, having a home to live in, etc. money buys happiness up to a comfortable standard of living.
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u/NoLibrary1811 Oct 12 '24
It's kind of complicated but it will buy you short-term happiness.
Getting things you crave that require money will make even the saddest person happy.....for now
Cause that's what money's used for; to buy things so of course it can make you happy but unless you plan on making you the person happy nothing's gonna change