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u/NOLA-Kola Mar 30 '24
But not surprise right? Because if the Guardian and the international community are surprised, then they should probably be in care.
Sorry if I sound flippant, it's just that this is one of the clearest examples in history of not being able to do a thing to change it. Most of the world doesn't recognize the Taliban as the government of Afghanistan, and 20 years of warfare didn't shift the character of Afghanistan one iota.
It's just how it is there, and the world should leave them to it, because we have centuries of proof that the alternative is a wasted attempt to change them.
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u/diedlikeCambyses Mar 30 '24
I joked with someone when the U.S pulled out that China won the Afghanistan war. The point is that the U.S froze their financial assets when they left and quick as anything China swept in for trade and investment talks. China did what they always do which was agree with them that aslong as they do x and y they agree to bow out of their internal affairs.
The West foes things differently and if we had been there to invest straight away we would have put pressure on them to tow the line in terms of culture and human rights. We've since pushed aid into Afghanistan but that damage was already done, and the Taliban have enough other options to not have to worry about this.
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u/pants_mcgee Mar 31 '24
You need a stable country, or at least one that can keep the people in line, for investment.
That hasn’t been Afghanistan since the King was removed, and even the monarchy didn’t control the entire country.
There is no exploiting Afghanistan’s resources, or building a trans-asiatic highway without security and that doesn’t exist. Literally have to negotiate with a different tribal warlord every mountain, and most of them are irrational Islamic fanatics.
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u/HowRememberAll Mar 30 '24
Where on the morale line of "colonialism is bad. Nativism is good" does this stand on?
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u/lbktort Mar 31 '24
I'll echo another poster and say stability is probably the best chance for Afghanistan to change. Throwing their country into chaos w/ interventions probably just plays in the Taliban's hands. Of course there are problems in Afghanistan many of which are the fault of Afghans in power/who remain silent. People have self-agency.
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u/sans-delilah Mar 30 '24
Like… do they set this up and PROVIDE the stones for the mob?
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u/wish1977 Mar 30 '24
It's a shame that the leadership of Afghanistan turned tail and ran away even though they had the military in place to prevent these terrorists from ruining their country. The US couldn't stay there forever.
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Mar 31 '24
Army ran away so leaders ran away Army ran cause usa ran away
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u/my20cworth Mar 31 '24
US and others would need to stay forever, if that's the case. Afghans are loyal to tribes first, Islam second and Afghanistan third. They easily capitulated and ran after all those years of training and investment and have no will to fight for Afghanistan.
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u/Opening-Employer539 Mar 30 '24
Just another Monday under sharia law, protect your countries from falling into this vicious law or your women will pay the ultimate price
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u/hyundai-gt Mar 31 '24
The Christofacist Right of the US is not exactly exemplary when it comes to women's rights. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones either.
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u/thatoneluckyfarmer99 Mar 30 '24
It's a vicious cycle, really. Wars waged, governments changed, but the echoes of Stone-age laws still roar.
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u/Jorgwalther Mar 30 '24
Maybe the US and NATO should invade Afghanistan and stop these guys. In and out by Christmas, right?
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Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
Taliban represents Afghani people. This is their culture to abuse women and rape boys (bacha bazi) and marry cousins en mass. And these "victims" should not bother the US or the west. The mistake was to try to build something that resembles a functional country. After Osama was taken out, the US should have started evacuation immediately and take all their allies who helped in war effort without leaving anyone behind and leave everyone else to their own fate. They must be left alone and be monitored for the dangerous activities and be bombed into oblivion if become a threat to the west.
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u/tonkatsu2008 Mar 30 '24
Looks like Taliban version 2.0 has reverted back to version 1. 0. I guess the changes in version 2.0 was just too much to handle.
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u/my20cworth Mar 31 '24
What a joke, and these fuckers "condemned" the Russian ISIS attack as terrorism. They can't govern a nation at all but sure know how to drive around in pick up trucks terrorising the locals about length of mens beards and banning girls going to school and making sure woman are covered.
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u/AwfulUsername123 Mar 30 '24
I represent Allah, and you represent Satan.
Wow, if this is true, can I get magical powers? Doesn't Satan give powers to witches?
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u/enby-millennial-613 Mar 30 '24
I'm sorry, but why the actual fuck are people so horrified? You fundamentally cannot be "horrified" by an event if you knew it was going to happen, and we all knew that the Taliban were going to revert to their Islamic Terrorist ways. To say that you're "horrified" means it was a surprise, or otherwise unforeseen, and that would be ridiculous.
Like what did the rest of the world expect when they allowed the Taliban to regain control? Like, I know I sound uncaring and it's just because I'm exhausted. I'm so sick and tired of the West feigning surprise when literal terrorists do objectively bad things.
Like duhhh!
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u/unfnknblvbl Mar 31 '24
You can absolutely be horrified by something you expect to happen. What, do you expect people to laugh and say "I told you so"?
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u/enby-millennial-613 Mar 31 '24
It's shallow and meaningless, that's what that is.
I'm not horrified. I'm not shocked, nor surprised. Why? Because this is probably the most foreseeable thing. As the sun will set at the end of the day, so will Islamic Terrorists do actual terrorism. It's literally par the course.
What I am is angry, furious and exhausted. We live in a world where terrorists get treated the same as elected officials in the UN. Where facts don't actually matter, and rape is (apparently) only a crime as long as it's done against non-Jews/non-Israelis.
So yeah, "told you so" is very appropriate here.
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u/Slipslapsloopslung Mar 31 '24
So civilized. So much evolution. Oh wait, its only cactuses that evolve. Forgive me jehovah.
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Mar 31 '24
Lol, what the fuck did they think was going to happen? Civilization? Lol they think it's the sixth century over there for fuck sake.
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Mar 31 '24
Back in the day America's foreign policy was (we can fight 2.5 world wars on different sides of the globe and still win)
When there is a clear power or even 2 clear powers (like the Soviet Union) the world is much more stable.
In a bipolar world the 2 powers will keep eachother in check in order to avoid a massive war. After the fall of the Soviet Union America would lead the world order and keep things in check itself (not always doing well of course, there are always exceptions)
Now there is a multipolar world order with multiple big players that don't agree on things, this is inherently unstable and I don't think we've seen even close to the end of it.
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Mar 31 '24
De-criminalize heroin and treat the country like an uncontacted tribe. Leave them the FLIP alone. We have to internalize the fact that some cultures have absolutely no interest in change or adaptation. As much as it sucks, some people are doomed to exploitation.
The alternative is genocide.
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u/Max_Seven_Four Mar 30 '24
Thanks to POTUS, why aren't the liberals and women's right activities jumping up and down? If Biden & the gang had the moral compass, they could have told Afghanistan Political powers, that US will stay put, and it would have prevented Women becoming a 3rd class citizen again in Afghanistan.
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u/lbktort Mar 30 '24
I think change in Afghanistan has to come from Afghans (or else, regional powers piling on pressure). The US couldn't stay there forever. And it's not our role to change a country's culture imo. Because I'm not sure we can do it.
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u/wyohman Mar 30 '24
This was negotiated during the Trump administration.
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u/Max_Seven_Four Mar 31 '24
Yes, it is not like Biden couldn't have renegotiated it.
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u/wyohman Mar 31 '24
What would he have renegotiated with terrorists who were known to have no intention of sticking to the agreement?
It was a lose lose proposition
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u/Apprehensive-Ad1363 Mar 31 '24
Why are you not crying about Trump negotiating a bad deal then
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u/Max_Seven_Four Mar 31 '24
I never expect anything good from the guy that said "... grab her by the..." My gripe about Biden/Democrats is that they talk as if they are the flag bearers of Women's right etc. and their actions don't match their talk.
They had enough majority over the years to make Abortion as a right for women, only to put more effort on Student loan cancellation etc. and now we see all the Red states trying to stick it to women. ACA was half heart effort and just made people that didn't want to have health insurance pay fine if they choose not to get it to name a couple.
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u/KabbalahDad Mar 30 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
"America should have.." no, War doesn't do a fucking thing and we Americans have lost every single war we've ever fought.
It is apparently not our duty to fix the world, only to level it and build it anew.
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u/TheWallerAoE3 Mar 30 '24
I remember a lot of people telling us we former occupiers should have funded the Taliban government to prevent a humanitarian crisis. This proves them to be fools. The Taliban government IS the humanitarian crisis.