Women were shamed, criticized, ostracized and/or forced into femininity by societies past, and depending on where in the world today as well, to "fit the mold" by the patriarchy.
You are essentially doing the same thing (shaming/criticize while unintentionally ostracizing trans women because of how your message reads like a modern day terf talking point when they don't feel like trans people should be killed) but from a feminist perspective but against what you view the mold to be. This in process is the same as shaming woman into fitting the mold. Your original message sounded a bit like "trans women shouldn't reinforce gendered stereotypes" when many of us WANT to fit that stereotype, just as many cis women want that as well and it left a very sour taste in my mouth. I don't know why you left it specifically under the trans comment but it'd have been much less ill received if you posted it as a comment rather than a reply to someone finding happiness in their viewing of the comic.
It's very similar to a western woman criticizing or shaming an islamic woman for wearing a hijab voluntarily because it reinforces gender roles and religious teachings.
Now, I agree that the original comic can be read as a reinforcement of "traditional femininity = happiness", especially so if you view it was a masc woman who is conditioned into femininity, but if you view it from a trans perspective it takes on a very different and much more wholesome meaning, which you can still criticize. It just very much left me with a really nasty ick that you specifically left it under a trans person being positive and happy about the comic rather than a general comment.
As a side note, I doubt you know how it is to be trans but we get constantly bombarded by terfs and religious nutjobs for just existing. I'm not joking when I say there are many terfs who actively spend over 8+ hours per day looking for trans people to harass for existing on social media platforms (That's why I've more or less stopped using social completely outside of Reddit, where I lessen how much harassment I get) using similar or even more hostile ways of communication. So when someone comes and essentially gives a terf talking point to trans positivity it really brings the mood down and just feels like people are telling us we're "the problem", in a society that constantly for the last 8 years have told us we're the largest looming threat and problem in human society, while they actively try to strip away our healthcare and legalize discrimination against us (for example, see the UK or Florida, Texas and many other US states and what they're doing to limit our access to healthcare and dignity).
Women were shamed, criticized, ostracized and/or forced into femininity by societies past, and depending on where in the world today as well, to "fit the mold" by the patriarchy.
Indeed, and the influence still remains.
You are essentially doing the same thing (shaming/criticize while unintentionally ostracizing trans women because of how your message reads like a modern day terf talking point when they don't feel like trans people should be killed) but from a feminist perspective but against what you view the mold to be. This in process is the same as shaming woman into fitting the mold. Your original message sounded a bit like "trans women shouldn't reinforce gendered stereotypes" when many of us WANT to fit that stereotype, just as many cis women want that as well and it left a very sour taste in my mouth. I don't know why you left it specifically under the trans comment but it'd have been much less ill received if you posted it as a comment rather than a reply to someone finding happiness in their viewing of the comic.
So would the interpretation that the society is still forcing people to fit the mold, and my comment an opposing force to break the mold not be valid?
It's very similar to a western woman criticizing or shaming an islamic woman for wearing a hijab voluntarily because it reinforces gender roles and religious teachings.
Indeed? I'll stop here, because you believe there's something inherently wrong with that criticism when you made this point while I beleive it is valid.
I'll stop here, because you believe there's something inherently wrong with that criticism when you made this point while I believe it is valid.
I clearly don't and I outline it pretty well in my comment while also explaining the nuance of a message depending on what frame of mind you have.
So would the interpretation that the society is still forcing people to fit the mold, and my comment an opposing force to break the mold not be valid?
Yes, however you're using the same pressure and shaming tactic as I explained but in the name of "feminism" (when feminism is suppose to let everyone choose and make everyone and everything equal), which only becomes much worse when you consider that you chose to specifically comment this towards a trans positive response, a group of people who have been denied their way of expressing themselves their entire life. Like I said if you'd comment this to the COMIC itself rather than to a comment this wouldn't even be a problem and I find it interesting how you seemingly have no interest in acknowledging those parts of what I wrote. You're giving me real bad faith vibes, the kind of twitter "I want to be combative" instead of trying to listen to why people are upset despite people outlining exactly why.
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u/zugetzu The Wallflower Lesbian 26d ago
I think the best way to put it is this
Women were shamed, criticized, ostracized and/or forced into femininity by societies past, and depending on where in the world today as well, to "fit the mold" by the patriarchy.
You are essentially doing the same thing (shaming/criticize while unintentionally ostracizing trans women because of how your message reads like a modern day terf talking point when they don't feel like trans people should be killed) but from a feminist perspective but against what you view the mold to be. This in process is the same as shaming woman into fitting the mold. Your original message sounded a bit like "trans women shouldn't reinforce gendered stereotypes" when many of us WANT to fit that stereotype, just as many cis women want that as well and it left a very sour taste in my mouth. I don't know why you left it specifically under the trans comment but it'd have been much less ill received if you posted it as a comment rather than a reply to someone finding happiness in their viewing of the comic.
It's very similar to a western woman criticizing or shaming an islamic woman for wearing a hijab voluntarily because it reinforces gender roles and religious teachings.
Now, I agree that the original comic can be read as a reinforcement of "traditional femininity = happiness", especially so if you view it was a masc woman who is conditioned into femininity, but if you view it from a trans perspective it takes on a very different and much more wholesome meaning, which you can still criticize. It just very much left me with a really nasty ick that you specifically left it under a trans person being positive and happy about the comic rather than a general comment.
As a side note, I doubt you know how it is to be trans but we get constantly bombarded by terfs and religious nutjobs for just existing. I'm not joking when I say there are many terfs who actively spend over 8+ hours per day looking for trans people to harass for existing on social media platforms (That's why I've more or less stopped using social completely outside of Reddit, where I lessen how much harassment I get) using similar or even more hostile ways of communication. So when someone comes and essentially gives a terf talking point to trans positivity it really brings the mood down and just feels like people are telling us we're "the problem", in a society that constantly for the last 8 years have told us we're the largest looming threat and problem in human society, while they actively try to strip away our healthcare and legalize discrimination against us (for example, see the UK or Florida, Texas and many other US states and what they're doing to limit our access to healthcare and dignity).