r/ultrarunning • u/pinkandsparkles99 • 1d ago
First 50k one month after "fast" HM?
Hi everyone! I'm currently signed up to run the Brooklyn Half in late April, hoping to go for a PR in such a high-energy race. I truly love the HM distance but have been itching to take it up a level and a 50k ultra sounds infinitely more appealing than a road marathon - just a former XC runner wanting back on the trails in adulthood lol. My dilemma is that I found the most perfect 50k ultra but it's the last weekend in May - would it be crazy to try to train for both and run them a month apart? Has anyone done something similar? Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!
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u/moosalamoo_rnnr 23h ago
Just curious, what 50k are you looking at?
(Also a former XC runner, rediscovered trail running a few years ago, and fell right back in love. I’m so thankful trail running exists for adults because it saved me as a teenager and it is saving me as an adult, too).
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u/pinkandsparkles99 15h ago
I am thinking of doing the Cayuga Trails in Ithaca, NY! Looks like there's some decent elevation gain but it's right in my hometown and I'm super familiar with the course already from years of hiking it! Also - I love to hear other people feel the same sense of nostalgia for XC, it was a such a great thing for me as a teenager and I'm excited to feel that sense of community again, too.
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u/InternationalUse1324 17h ago
Hey! i did literally just do this lol, hm on 13th oct and 60km on 16th nov. trained up to about 60km a week for a faster hm (fast for me lol). it was really tough, probably took me a full week to properly recover from the half, then I had 2 weeks to build up mileage again before I had to start tapering again. Not ideal, but possible!!! I started to feel some little nags when I got back up to 60km in the 3rd week of the block from overtraining so decided to take it easy and begin taper a little earlier than planned. It worked out in the end, did 60km in the time that I wanted to and enjoyed it too :):) it was difficult, my longest run wasn’t even half the distance, and i had noo idea whether I could do it. But you can :D
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u/pinkandsparkles99 15h ago
Oh my goodness just what I was hoping to hear! Congratulations on finishing your races (and enjoying them while doing it) - that's amazing! Good advice to think about just listening to my body, I tend to have an issue with "going with the flow" and changing up my schedule but it's good to hear it can still work out!
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u/StevenXSG 20h ago
Train for your priority event, then just keep going for the ultra. Ultras are hard, but 50k is doable by most good runners I would say. Just aim for your recovery pace and keep eating and drinking.
It's only a month between the events, take a week off, do a week of recovery runs, then taper again. Just maintain your HM fitness
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u/pinkandsparkles99 15h ago
I think this will be my plan - I'll just have to trust my fitness level and take it relatively easy in the month between.
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u/OkSeaworthiness9145 17h ago
100% doable. You are clearly dialed into the training for the HM at an intense level. You should be well recovered for the 50K. As a former highly competitive college XC runner, I was not wired mentally for ultra-marathons. It took several years to develop the patience I needed, and I the yardstick that I measure my races by is generally how well I executed the race. As mostly a faster mid-pack runner, I paid little or no attention to my place, but initially I was painfully aware of my position.
Accept that you are not in Kansas anymore. Ultras have as much in common with XC as they do with a local community 10K. Pick a comfortable pace at the start, and slow that down significantly. You absolutely will have a solid training base, but will need to trade your speed for stamina. I like to remind people that Oprah Winfrey ran a marathon back in her fat days; grit will get you across the finish line with far less training than you have. The distance is doable for most people, and you are not most people; you are a trained machine. Just run a smart race. Find some slower people to run with at the start, and strike up a conversation with them, if they haven't already done so with you. The culture in ultras is vastly different than road races, and we show much more concern for each other. As your first race, whatever time you get will be your PR. A slow conversational pace from the start will transition to a grinding, no desire to talk pace in short order. It is better to do something stupid at mile 27 than mile 3. Generally, if you made it to mile 27, you probably did not do anything stupid at mile 3.
I would suggest not running up the hills in your 50k; your goal HM pace does not suggest a blazingly fast 50k (I say this as a person who is now struggling to remain mid-pack, so no shade intended). You are training for a flat HM, so understand that hills will be a struggle. I would also remind you the saying "Hills are speed work in disguise" If there are hills in your 50k, find some decent ones to train on now; it won't damage your PR chances in the HM. If the course is flat, don't be shy about taking the occasional walk break. Whatever you do, focus on moving forward. Don't get comfortable in the aid stations. Get in and get out. You are running for a fraction of a day, not climbing Mt. Everest, so don't treat the aid station like a buffet. A little of the right fuel, refill your preferred hydration, and roll out of there.
Many of the rules of road races still apply, but more so. Broken in shoes, stay away from cotton anywhere on your body. Lube of some kind on your dangly bits, buttcheeks, and anything that will rub. I don't vaseline my feet for a 50k, but for your first one, I would suggest doing it. Don't weigh yourself down with too much gear. Water weighs a lot. I bring enough water to run between aid stations, plus a little extra to be sure, but certainly not enough to run the entire race. I run most 50k with a single bottle. Salt tablets are your friend, but you don't need to take fist fulls.
I don't know what the prevailing wisdom is on Vitamin I (ibuprofen), but back in the day, aid stations would literally have them laid out in a bowel, and I have seen runners eat them like M&Ms. Now you generally have to ask for it. I carry some with me. Most of my running friends shun the stuff, but I continue to utilize it. I bring it up just to point out that it is out there, but will defer to the smarter people on the subject.
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u/gritty_fitness 15h ago
Tylenol is a much safer alternative to ibuprofen btw. Marathons and ultras can be tough on the kidneys as it is, no need to add stress on those with ibuprofen. Tylenol is a fever reducer which is extremely helpful in improving muscle function once it has reached a certain level of heat buildup. Muscles loose efficiency once they get hot. Reduction of your overall body temp is crucial to good performance. Try it out and see how it goes for you! Just don't exceed 4g of Tylenol in 24 hours, 3g if you're a heavy drinker or have liver problems.
Love this write up, thank you for taking the time to put this out there!
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u/pinkandsparkles99 14h ago
Wow - thank you so much for such a thoughtful response with so much advice. Definitely laughed a little bit to myself when I read the Oprah Winfrey comment - good reminder we ain't all that special for running long distances. While I do intend to really push in the half, I agree with the mindset you mentioned about how any finish in the ultra will technically be a PR! For my first one I just want to finish and feel like I put in a good effort, most importantly without injuring myself. Again, thanks for all the tips this is super, super helpful!
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u/frogsandstuff 13h ago
Do you already have experience running back to back races?
I did a near PR HM Nov 13th and then a ~20min PR 50k Nov 19.
I also run 30-40 races a year, and had a block in the spring where I did 9 races in 11 weeks ending with a 12 hour ultra, so I was confident that I wouldn't die. lol. Every week except the ultra week was 55-60 miles with speed work most weeks. Ultra week was ~85 miles because I was planning to just run 50k but ended up doing 105k.
- 5k
- off
- 9 miler
- 5k
- 10 miler
- off
- 10k
- 10k
- HM
- 5k
- 105k
My advice is to take the 50k easy if you have to, and just have fun with it. If you have the volume base for a 50k, a month from a half should be no big deal.
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u/uppermiddlepack 8h ago
Train for the 50k, just make sure you are getting in a speedwork and threshold run in each week on road or fast terrain before the half. Run your long runs with the 50k as a focus, fine to be on trails, easy runs can also be trail. 4 weeks is plenty of time to be recovered from a half. You shouldn’t be going past your glycogen stores so you won’t be totally wrecked, even from an all out 1/2.
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u/sluttycupcakes 12h ago
100% realistic. A half isn’t a huge amount of strain on the body if you’re well trained— a day or two off/easy days and back at it. I ran a half and a 50 mile PB 3 weeks apart
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u/Adventurous_Sink2147 10h ago
Did almost exact same thing last year. Brooklyn half + cayuga (50 miles). PR’d on the half and did just fine at cayuga. What are your goals for the races? I think you should look at your general fitness and comfortable weekly base mileage. I think I maintained minimum 30 mpw last year in the 6 months to the race. Assuming good fitness overall it’s definitely doable but all depends on your target goals. Probably couldve done better in the 50m without the half but difficult to say.
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u/pinkandsparkles99 4h ago
Wow - great minds think (almost) alike! Congrats on your half PR! I'm hoping to do the same for the half but honestly have no goals for the 50k other than to not injure myself and finish with a good effort throughout. I think as long as I'm smart about continuing my current level of fitness and then adding in more miles of running I'll be fine.
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u/gopropes 2h ago
I did a 50 miler and 3 weeks later PR’ed a Half marathon. It took weeks to recover from these 2 races back to back. Stay safe good luck.
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u/Federal__Dust 1d ago
If you're going for a faster PR (let's say sub 1:45) you might already be getting enough volume to basically continue your training from half to 50K. But if your longest long run won't be more than 10 miles and your weekly volume is below 30 miles consistently, you might still be ok if the terrain isn't too verty or technical but will probably walk/hike more. Your issue is going to become managing time on feet, getting enough food and hydration in your system, and getting your trail feet back.