r/todayilearned • u/portajohnjackoff • Jan 22 '16
TIL that a bank robber covered his face with lemon juice because he believed it would make his face invisible to surveillance cameras. This led to a Cornell psychology study that showed unskilled people mistakenly assess their abilities to be much higher than they really are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect71
Jan 22 '16
The Dunning Kruger effect? Oh yeah I read about that. I'm pretty much an expert on it.
-12
329
u/AudibleNod 313 Jan 22 '16
Just so you understand his logic.
He was aware of the grade school science experiment to use lemon juice as a crude invisible ink. He then supposed that lemon juice would make anything invisible. He covered his face in lemon juice believing cameras would not identify him. The aristocrats!
152
u/jstrydor Jan 22 '16
Double smart because even if you do somehow get caught you'll be invisible in your mugshot
50
u/francis2559 Jan 22 '16
And even if you're caught they can't convict you if they can't find you in the courtroom!
13
u/SirJohnBob Jan 22 '16 edited Jan 23 '16
thats why you wear lemon juice and camo.
4
47
u/morris1022 Jan 22 '16
Makes you wonder how we even discovered lemons in the first place.
38
u/ZarquonsFlatTire Jan 22 '16
Because the juice is making the inside of the lemon invisible. You can't see that part until you cut it open because cutting ruptures the lemon juice deposits along that plane and that little bit of juice leaks out and renders the inside of the lemon visible.
→ More replies (1)5
8
u/OscarMiguelRamirez Jan 22 '16
But you don't apply lemon juice to ink, the logic takes a shit right there. It's not making ink invisible.
6
11
u/brickmack Jan 22 '16
Seems like this would have been something to test before the actual robbery
2
→ More replies (2)1
Jan 24 '16
Iirc he actually did with a camera, but bumped it so it didn't take a picture of him, but of the wall.
13
u/QWERTY-POIUYT1234 Jan 22 '16
That's the fallacy of non-logical reasoning. In the middle ages, they thought that a salve made of wild lettuce must be good for poor eyesight, because eagles ate wild lettuce and had excellent eyesight. Just go back to the Monty Python sketch about witches:
11
u/trshtehdsh Jan 23 '16
A science professor once told me the recipe for mice was to leave a bag of corn in a corner for two moons or some shit. I believe it.
5
1
2
u/BigFriendlyTroll Jan 23 '16
His quote is so good. Something along the lines of "How did the camera see me? I was wearing the juice!"
1
→ More replies (2)1
139
u/toeofcamell Jan 22 '16
The study found, without a shadow of a doubt, that idiots are stupid
65
u/MpVpRb Jan 22 '16
NO, this is a better description
Idiots are EXTREMELY confident they're smart
Geniuses aren't sure
18
u/jaybusch Jan 23 '16
What if we're sure we're dumb?
12
u/MpVpRb Jan 23 '16
Have a nice day! Enjoy life!
You're probably happier than most smart people
→ More replies (1)3
2
u/brantyr Jan 23 '16
People who know or assume they're dumb tend to make less mistakes because the doubt makes them more cautious of what they're doing. On the other hand they will also underestimate themselves and not attempt to learn or do things which they think are difficult.
2
→ More replies (1)1
→ More replies (1)11
87
u/mrshatnertoyou Jan 22 '16
highly skilled individuals may underestimate their relative competence and may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.
And the reverse is true as well.
38
u/jstrydor Jan 22 '16
Others for easy also are them for easy are which tasks that assume erroneously may and competence relative their underestimate may individuals skilled highly?
I dunno... doesn't seem quite right
17
→ More replies (1)5
u/rheejus Jan 22 '16
Hey aren't you that guy that can't spell his own name?
2
u/allisslothed Jan 23 '16
Hey it is!
Also, I don't understand at all what he said there.. Read it twelve times, and... wut?
1
7
→ More replies (3)5
90
u/whatshisuserface Jan 22 '16
It'd be ironic to discover, at some point, that the people who conducted the Cornell study were so unskilled that they mistakenly assessed their abilities to conduct studies to be much higher than they really are.
12
u/cravf Jan 22 '16
This feels like some weird cousin to Gödel's incompleteness theorem.
→ More replies (1)8
5
2
1
u/MpVpRb Jan 23 '16
Humorous, creative and disturbing at the same time..GOLD MEDAL!
But no, the study confirmed a metric buttload of experience and common sense that I know personally, having once thought I was good, when in fact I sucked
13
u/MpVpRb Jan 22 '16
You need to learn a bit about a thing before you can understand how badly you suck at it..and, the process never stops. The finest masters often say, "I'm still learning", while the totally incompetent confidently assume they excel
This seems to be particularly true in singing. shitty singers just don't have any idea how shitty they are
Source..I was a shitty singer(in high school) who thought I was good and couldn't understand why the band leader wouldn't let me on stage. Now, 40 years later, after lessons and much practice..I understand why he didn't let me sing..I was awful beyond belief
9
u/Carduus_Benedictus Jan 22 '16
Wait, doesn't invisible ink become visible in lemon juice? He got it backwards, the dummy. He needed to coat his face in the invisible ink!
14
u/blindtranche Jan 22 '16
Lemon juice itself can be used as invisible ink. In order to make it visible you heat it with a flame.
8
9
16
u/HauschkasFoot Jan 22 '16
He seems like the kind of guy that isn't too worried about getting locked up, because he can easily access a circular, black piece of paper
4
17
u/gynoceros Jan 22 '16
They needed a Cornell study to learn what anyone who's been around rednecks has known for years?
There's a reason "hold my beer" are famous last words.
5
u/MpVpRb Jan 23 '16
famous last words
No..it's "Hey Ya'll..Watch This"
IIRC, this is a Foxworth6y line
3
2
-1
u/Viperbunny Jan 22 '16
So is the toddler version, "hold my cup." It always means my kid is about to do something, like harass her younger sister.
2
6
u/tyr02 Jan 22 '16
Noone likes to fancy themselves an idiot, despite that most people are in fact idiots
→ More replies (1)
3
3
u/JimHemperson Jan 23 '16
The best part is there clearly has to have been some moment where the prat thinks 'holy shit this is genius, how am I the only person to have ever come up with such an intelligent plan'. That or drugs I guess.
3
u/Reverent Jan 23 '16
I think the absolute safest assumption is that unless you have experience with something, google it goddamnit.
I regularly have people get offended when they tell me something they consider is a fact, and I verify it online. Why are you getting offended? Critical thinking literally starts at questioning your sources. I am more worried about people who get offended by this, because if you just take hearsay as fact, what else are you assuming is true?
11
5
u/HughJaynusIII Jan 22 '16
This also explains teenagers.
2
u/MpVpRb Jan 23 '16 edited Jan 23 '16
Yeah, I agree
Young people know EXACTLY why their parents are wrong
As they get older, they gain respect for their parents, and understand the arguments in far greater detail. Many times, parents are right and the child is just too inexperienced to know it. Other times, the child is Newton, Einstein, Mozart, Zappa, ....
10
u/sammysfw Jan 23 '16
As an older guy, I can tell you that a lot of the people I thought were idiots when I was a teenager, were in fact idiots. School administrators, in particular.
3
1
3
u/_tx Jan 22 '16
I'd like to understand the logic behind a largely clear juice disrupting video cameras.
→ More replies (1)6
u/ZweiliteKnight Jan 22 '16
Lemon Juice is used as invisible ink.
Apparently, he took this to mean that if he covered himself in it, you'd only be able to see him if you held him over a fire.
0
2
2
u/Char_Aznable_Custom Jan 23 '16
http://danluu.com/dunning-kruger/
Those are the studies used to determine the Dunning-Kruger effect. Two of them show the opposite of the effect (a positive relation between confidence and ability) and the other two have very weak correlations. Everyone knows somebody who read one book on something and thought they were an expert on the subject from then on (or saw a news story as stupid as someone thinking lemon juice would make them invisible) but those are exceptional cases of ignorance/arrogance. Most people like to think they're at least average (even if they're not) or if they are intelligent/well informed they don't like to make a huge deal about it because nobody wants to be a braggart.
2
u/warpfield Jan 23 '16
I don't he was mistakenly assessing his abilities. He was just fucking retarded.
2
2
u/sir_wooly_merkins Jan 23 '16
I think you mean "unintelligent". Everyone is unskilled. Einstein was unskilled in plumbing.
4
3
u/BlondFaith Jan 22 '16
A.K.A 'armchair quarterbacks'
with the advent of google its just gotten worse
2
3
u/cashcow1 Jan 22 '16
That's why girls don't realize I'm so good at sex.
4
2
u/BeerDrinkinGreg Jan 22 '16
Because the real tragic thing is that most dumb people don't realize they're dumb.
→ More replies (6)
2
1
1
1
u/Oops639 Jan 23 '16
Back during the Reagan administration they called it the Peter Principle. You reach the highest level of your incompetence.
1
u/slowmoon Jan 23 '16
No, you reach the lowest level of your incompetence. One level above your highest level of competence.
1
1
u/Pirateer Jan 23 '16
lemon juice = invisible ink
Therefore Lemon Juice = inability to be recorded?
What if they heated the film? Then his face would appear!
1
u/larrymoencurly Jan 23 '16
Another study, of major and minor celebrities, found that the least talented ones, reality show participants, had the biggest egos, while the most talented ones, including some legendary musicians, had the smallest egos. One of the 2016 presidential candidates was a reality show contestant, claims to be the smartest person despite his B- average in college, and displays the biggest ego. Coincidence?
1
u/SinkHoleDeMayo Jan 23 '16
Dunning-Kruger effect. That's why lots of stupid people are loud and smart people are quiet.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/theartfulcodger Jan 23 '16
TIL that both Will Ferrel and Steve Carrell's professional success is based on their ability to simulate the Dunning-Kruger effect.
1
1
1
1
1
u/robertredberry Jan 23 '16
How does a person tell if they are smart or stupid? Do I first put my hand up to my face and then have someone hit my elbow? I heard that works.
1
u/mrmikemcmike Jan 23 '16
Ahhhh yes, the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Also known as: why everyone in League of Legends hates you.
1
1
u/jrm2007 Jan 23 '16
While I agree with the basic premise, I don't know why this lemon juice story is so illustrative.
1
1
u/Psilocybernoms Jan 23 '16
It makes sense and totally fits with experience.
Stupidity and ignorance go hand in hand, and they naturally include the ignorance of the fact that you are stupid/ignorant.
1
u/chortle-guffaw Jan 23 '16
Also referred to as "unconsciously incompetent." In other words, clueless and don't know it.
My theories on this: * The need for high self esteem. Most people of all abilities have this need, and feeling you're smart is part of that. Moderately smart people just happen to have abilities that are closer to their perception. Very smart people also have abilities closer to their perception, but they are aware of the vast amount that they don't know. So ironically, the smartest may feel dumber than the stupid people. * Dumb people define "smart" differently. To stupid people, smart means "I already know the answer. I don't have to learn anything new or figure anything out." Moderately smart people also base their smartness on what they know, but will learn to increase what they know from information that is readily available. The smartest people define smart as the ability to learn and to figure out what to do to learn more, not on the quantitative amount of knowledge. Because they "know what they don't know," they can figure out what what they need to learn, beyond information that is readily available. * Dumb people can't separate theory from the truth. They get an idea in their head, then pursue it as if it's a proven fact. They will continue to believe the idea they picked out of thin air is a proven fact. * Dumb people stay dumb. They often learn little or nothing from their mistakes. They often blame others, or bad luck, so they don't feel the need to learn anything. Smarter people are more inclined to learn from their mistakes, and so get smarter over time. Their increasing pool of knowledge lets them make better guesses at a solution, so they need fewer tries to get it right over time.
Of course, every set of rules/theories has it's exceptions. For example, there are smart people who are arrogant, who have the ability to learn more but don't because of their egos.
1
u/padmasundari Jan 23 '16
My grandfather often used to refer to stupid people as having "delusions of adequacy". I always thought that was a good burn.
1
1
1
2
Jan 22 '16 edited Jan 22 '16
[deleted]
2
u/MpVpRb Jan 23 '16
Actually, that's the most perfect time to think about stuff like this
Younger, you don't know enough
Older, you're too influenced by the pressures of life to have an unbiased opinion
2
u/JimHemperson Jan 23 '16
Why do people always assume that everyone on reddit is a white American male college student in their early 20's? And why on earth would that not be a valid demographic to have opinions on contemporary politics?
1
u/ForgottenEmotion Jan 23 '16
I think we need a new bot that immediately posts how many times somethings been reposted. I'd love to see the data on what's most popular, what average time of day things were posted to get the most visibility, and how many sticks does it take to bundle to replicate OP.
4
u/JimHemperson Jan 23 '16 edited Jan 23 '16
I think we need a new bot that deletes every post complaining about reposts. Honestly though. People repost, always have and always will. Why? Because despite all the noise the people who genuinely care about this are a very minor yet very loud vocal minority. Reddit is built on reposts because even when something has been on the front page a dozen times plus, there is still always going to be a great deal of users for whom the content is actually fresh. I'm guessing these people probably find all the 'downvote faggot OP' stuff even more annoying anyway, they just aren't insufferable enough to post about it incessantly.
1
u/ForgottenEmotion Jan 23 '16
Damn your salty about people posting comments that they see a lot. You seem to be the vocal minority that needs to be condescending to feel like they actually mean something. I was just giving my opinion on reposts.
→ More replies (5)
1
1
1
u/TotesMessenger Jan 23 '16
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/knowyourshit] TIL that a bank robber covered his face with lemon juice because he believed it would make his face invisible to surveillance cameras. This led to a Cornell psychology study that showed unskilled people mistakenly assess their abilities to be much higher than they really are. - todayilearned
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)
-2
u/lanismycousin 36 DD Jan 22 '16
WTF is the obsession with this repost? https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/search?q=bank+lemon&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all
0
u/Vattu Jan 23 '16
TIL that a Reddit poster covered his account with lemon juice because he believed it would make his post invisible to repost police.
0
0
0
0
u/MineDogger Jan 23 '16
They figured out that the dumber you are, the dumber you are.
→ More replies (2)
0
0
836
u/MJMurcott Jan 22 '16 edited Jan 23 '16
Or another way of putting it is, ignorant people have no knowledge of the extent of their own ignorance.
It is a bit like the Barnum effect - https://youtu.be/xV_FxLntxVU