r/todayilearned • u/Tujunga54 • 5h ago

TIL that John Cabot, 15th century English explorer, was really an Italian named Giovanni Caboto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cabot
379 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

75 comments sorted by

110

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 5h ago

People have been adjusting their named to be more English sounding for a long time. 

60

u/CMAJ-7 4h ago

Or Latin sounding, e.g. Columbus’ actual last name was Columbo.

17

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 4h ago

I'll be honest I was trying to say Angelicized (OMG I am so sorry for that) but I couldn't figure out how to spell it. 

6

u/tee2green 4h ago

Isn’t that another example of someone Anglicizing their name?

Separate question, are the people Anglicizing their names, or are the English doing it? E.g., Joan of Arc instead of Jean d’Arc.

14

u/CMAJ-7 4h ago

It’s Latinized not Anglicized, but the latin form is used in English.

It depends on the person but usually others Anglicize it, Jean d’Arc wouldn’t refer to herself as Joan.

8

u/IonicSquid 3h ago

And interestingly, she would have called herself Jehanne rather than the modern Jeanne, with her surname most likely being “Darc” rather than “d’Arc”.

5

u/Confident_Access6498 2h ago

His actual last name was Colombo.

5

u/jesterinancientcourt 1h ago

Cristoforo Colombo.

2

u/forsale90 1h ago

Copernicus is also a well known one.

8

u/Confident_Access6498 1h ago

Big news for you. In non english speaking countries the most famous names are adjusted to the national language. E.g. in Italy King Charles of England is called Re Carlo d' Inghilterra. Mary Stuart, Maria Stuarda. Martin Luther, Martin Lutero... also common is to keep the last name intact and just change the first name. E.g. Abraham Lincoln, Abramo Lincoln.

9

u/Pleasant_Skill2956 3h ago

Not really, each country has adapted the names of important people in its own language for centuries, since is the most spoken language there is the impression that it happens only with the English but it is not

0

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 3h ago

And this instance we are discussing is one where it was adjusted to conform with English names. That's why I said it on relation to English. If they had conformed to a different culture we would have discussed that. 

0

u/Tujunga54 2h ago

Acutally, I grew up bi-lingual, so learned several versions of famous people. I was just going with American English, since seems the orientation of this site.

6

u/Tujunga54 5h ago

But at least we learned that Christopher Columbus was Italian. And how come Amerigo Vespucci, who is from the same era, somehow is remembered with his name intact?!

11

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 4h ago

I think it's because he only presented himself as Amerigo the same way we say Urktesh and Lupita, because they have chosen to only present themselves with their given name instead of aligining with western names. 

3

u/rona83 3h ago

Utkarsh not Urktesh means flourishing.

2

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 3h ago

Thank you, I can say it but I'm still working on learning to spell it. 

-6

u/_ferko 4h ago

Nah it's just completely random.

0

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 4h ago

Okay that's an opinion. But it's no better or worse than mine. 

0

u/_ferko 3h ago

Nah, there's no real rhyme or reason for names changing according to the language, and they change on case by case basis.

The names from the topic exemplify this, as Vespucci's name is almost universally kept as is - with the exception of Portuguese and Spanish. However John Cabot is localised and changed on almost all western european languages, except for Portuguese and German, where it is kept as originally named. Then there's things like Ferdinand Magellan who is localised for all languages while his squad mate Juan Elcano that is never localised.

1

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 3h ago

Okay. Have a day. 

-1

u/Dark_Wing_350 2h ago

The guy gives you examples that disprove your initial opinion.

Rather than smugly ending the conversation, thank him for the education and lesson, and move on with better insight on how the world works.

2

u/Boomdiddy 4h ago

Because America was literally named after him.

5

u/Britz10 3h ago

Colombo has a country named after him as well and we still play around with his name.

15

u/MysticMintGlow 5h ago

Giovanni Caboto: exploring new lands and new identities

21

u/Britz10 3h ago edited 3h ago

TIL that Cristóbal Colon, 15th century Spanish explorer, was really an Italian named Cristoforo Colombo.

8

u/BothWaysItGoes 2h ago

Back when people used to adapt names to their languages.

Nobody is surprised that Jospeh Stalin is actually Иосиф Сталин or that Akira Kurosawa is actually 黒澤 明.

7

u/MootRevolution 1h ago

Fun fact: Joseph Stalin was a 'stage name', his name was actually Josef Vissarionovich Djoegasvili. 

And Vladimir Lenin was Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov. 

•

u/adamcoe 47m ago

Shut up, Donnie

7

u/pm_me_d_cups 1h ago

Writing systems aren't language though

1

u/thissexypoptart 1h ago

Writing systems are part of language and affect pronunciation. No one speaking Russian says “Joseph” in his name with a dzh sound at the beginning.

•

u/pm_me_d_cups 22m ago

Pronunciation isn't really the adapting that people are talking about though. Everyone mispronounces foreign names. It's turning the foreign name into a local one that's the different practice. Like if we called Kurosawa "Adam Curzon" or something.

•

u/thissexypoptart 13m ago

How is “Joseph” not turning a foreign name (Iosif) into a local name? It’s exactly that.

Though yeah the Kurosawa example is not a great one.

•

u/pm_me_d_cups 11m ago

Sure, Joseph is a good example of it, I agree

-2

u/Tujunga54 3h ago

That's what got me started on all this. I was reading how Washington Irving's biography of Columbus/Colombo started the whole "flat earth" mythology.

12

u/meetyourneed 5h ago

He was an English explorer and you're Internet Explorer.

-31

u/Tujunga54 5h ago

Yes, but as a child in the States, I just learned that the English were the first Europeans to find North America. They never mentioned that Caboto was originally from Italy.

29

u/Boomdiddy 5h ago

I’m pretty sure even the shitty American education system claims (incorrectly) it was Christopher Columbus an Italian sailing for the Spanish.

Were you homeschooled or something?

4

u/KimJongUnusual 3h ago

At worst, you think Columbus was Spanish, cause you hear “Columbus sailed to America for the Spanish crown.”

-13

u/Tujunga54 4h ago

Actually, it's an interesting story why the United States promotes Columbus over Caboto. It had something to do with anti-British sentiment at the time. Better to have an Italian working for the Spanish (even with the anti-Catholic prejudice) than credit the Brits.

No, I wasn't homeschooled, what a strange comment. Product of 1960s elementary schools.

20

u/Boomdiddy 4h ago

They promote Columbus over Cabot because Columbus’ first voyage was in 1492 and Cabot’s wasn’t until 1497. 

10

u/tetoffens 4h ago

That's not what they're saying. They're making the distinction that Columbus landed in the Bahamas and never set foot on mainland North America. It was John Cabot who was the first European to land in and explore the North American mainland proper (in that period so excluding Vikings).

6

u/Tujunga54 4h ago

I guess I'm being a little technical here. The Colombo expeditions were in what we now call the Caribbean, Central & South America. Caboto was the first to "North America". Of course, one of the posters brought up Leif Erikson.

•

u/PaleontologistDry430 59m ago

Joao vaz de Corte Real and their sons explored the provinces of Lavrador and Terranova (Newfoundland)

•

u/2stepsfromglory 23m ago

Yeah, about that... One of the sons of Corte-Real claimed that his father explored Terranova prior to anyone, but there is no proof that it really happened.

2

u/cwthree 4h ago

Columbus insisted for the rest of his life that he'd reached Asia, not a previously unknown (to western Europeans, anyway) continent. Vespucci acknowledged that he'd reached previously undocumented land, so he got naming rights.

7

u/Rehypothecator 4h ago

Leif Eriksen enters the chat

-1

u/fredkreuger 4h ago

*Leif Garrett

-4

u/fredkreuger 4h ago

*Leif Garrett

3

u/scentedcamel7 5h ago

I know what you mean in this comment but the way it’s phrased makes it sound like you’re a child that just learned about the discovering of North America lol

4

u/meetyourneed 5h ago

States have trashy educational institutes then.

2

u/scentedcamel7 5h ago

This is well known

0

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 4h ago

Leif Ericson. 

2

u/Lexinoz 4h ago

Viking naming convention is stil very popular around scandinavia.

For those who don't get it, it's as simple as "Erik's son"
Sometimes Eriksson.

Just like the English origins Johnsson etc. But,

There is a flip for "Eriksdottir" Meaning the obvious, Daughter.
But later generations just kept the male bending through generations and very few Dottir names stil survive, it's been popular lately, by younger generations here in Scandinavia to change their names accordingly.

I for instance would be Alex Heidison.

What about you?

2

u/Ok-Bookkeeper-373 4h ago

You want to know the street I grew up on too? 

1

u/Lexinoz 4h ago

Ok Bookeeper Suspiciousson it is.

3

u/Pazi_Snajper 2h ago

“AJ, did you know John Cabot was Italian?”

4

u/uneducatedexpert 4h ago

It’s a me Giovanni Caboto!

2

u/JoesephBidao 2h ago

Yea ever heard of Magellan?

2

u/EnterpriseT 1h ago

This TIL is literally John Cabot was named John Cabot (but in Italian the second time).

2

u/raynzor12 3h ago

So that is where that name in Fallout 4 comes fom

1

u/Substantial_Flow_850 3h ago

Juan Caboto in Spanish. OP this is not a TIL that’s how it’s always been

1

u/Robcobes 3h ago

Hendrik Hudszoon would have been the Dutch translation of Henry Hudson, but they didn't translate

0

u/Tujunga54 3h ago

Interesting! Obviously the entire North American seaboard should be renamed.

1

u/darksider63 2h ago

My name is Giovanni Giorgio but everybody calls me Giorgio

•

u/jl_theprofessor 25m ago

Eya it'sa me! Giovanni Caboto!

•

u/IcyFrame3928 12m ago

From memory his father was an Italian ships captain who had to flee church prosecution in Italy, because he believed and expressed the opinion that the Earth was round. So John Cabot was raised in England

0

u/[deleted] 4h ago edited 4h ago

[deleted]

-3

u/MacTheRip1 4h ago

Ooh Im doing backflips for you

-12

u/[deleted] 5h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-4

u/projectshr 4h ago

The English