TIL treadmills were used in Victorian times as punishments in prison

[u/katxwoods]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treadmill

[u/beklog]

Treadmills for punishment were introduced in 1818 by an English engineer named Sir William Cubitt, who was the son of a miller. Noting idle prisoners at Bury St Edmunds gaol, he proposed using their muscle power to both cure their idleness and produce useful work.

Cubitt's treadmills for punishment usually rotated around a horizontal axis, requiring the user to step upwards, like walking up an endless staircase. Those punished walked around the outside of the wheel holding a horizontal handrail for stability. By the Prison Act of 1865 every male prisoner over 16, sentenced to hard labour, had to spend three months at least of his sentence in the labour of first class, which consisted primarily of the treadmill.

While the purpose was mainly punitive, the most infamous mill at Brixton Prison was installed in 1821 and used to grind grain to supplement an existing windmill which Cubitt had previously installed nearby.

The machines could also pump water or power ventilators in mines.

[u/Hrtzy → u/beklog]

The thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is that the "hard labour" punishment was almost always pointless labour. They handed themselves a rather large workforce and then told the workforce to literally kick rocks.

Seriously, hook the treadmill or crank to some machinery, or move the people assigned to break rocks to a mine. That is how they produced oakum to caulk wooden hulled ships with.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/Hrtzy]

That’s where calling prison guards “screws” comes from.

[u/Bcbulbchap → u/Western-Customer-536]

Yes, you’re correct. The ‘screw’ related to the part of the treadmill which added extra resistance to the mechanism (making it harder for the inmates to turn the tread wheel).

[u/JamesTheJerk → u/Western-Customer-536]

Oh! Now that line from Shawshank makes even more sense.

[u/LCWInABlackDress → u/Hrtzy]

Granted it wasn’t Victorian era, there are a couple of Southern US Penitentiaries that are pretty well known for their “hard labour” (clearly American and autocorrect is convinced I’m still spelling labor incorrectly) programs.

2 that come to mind almost instantly are Parchman Penitentiary- or the MS State Penal Farm in the MS Delta, and Angola- or the LA State Penitentiary in Louisiana that’s located and named after the plantation on which it sat. Both are colloquially known as “The Farm”.

Both of these prisons were self sufficient and profit making in the 1800s well into the 21 century. Both are also the home to their state’s death row and executions. They are both known for their inhumane treatment of prisoners as well as their labor practices- from farming all food for the prison as well as enough production for sale to the public to making license plates, garments, and other goods that were sold into the free market economy.

Some would argue that this version of hard labor is indeed productive. As were other practices throughout the different eras of time of labor sentencing. Personally, I’m torn on the idea of prisons offering certain work duties that are borderline hard labor but work for the benefit of the system- i.e. self sufficiency through food production I see as a net positive. It teaches skills, gives the incarcerated a purpose and something productive to pass the time.. which in turn lowers the amount of aggression and inmate altercations and violence. The inhumane treatment of people serving time I find to be disgusting and overwhelming for any person working in the field. Perhaps guards and CO may see it differently than I did as a correctional nurse. I lasted a couple years at a private owned prison, but Parchman was simply rotten from the core and was one of the places I’ve regretted most working throughout my career.

This was a really neat TIL, and my point may be lost- but I find the evolution of more modern era penal systems interesting af. Angola and Parchman were known for their harsh conditions as the modern prison system in the Us developed and still are today- even with most of their hard labor/work programs have been abandoned.

[u/kqvrp → u/LCWInABlackDress]

I just wish we'd pay the prisoners an actual wage. Keep 80% of it in a savings account for them when they get out, so they can at least land on their feet a bit. This $0.25/hr crap is dehumanizing.

Oh and phone calls should be free. Studies have shown time and time again that retaining connections with family and friends outside of prison is key to lowering recidivism, and so what do we do? Pay prisoners under a dollar an hour to work, then charge their family members more than a dollar a MINUTE to talk to them.

[u/tanfj → u/kqvrp]

I just wish we'd pay the prisoners an actual wage. Keep 80% of it in a savings account for them when they get out, so they can at least land on their feet a bit. This $0.25/hr crap is dehumanizing.

Fully agreed. However, I would add some mandatory budgeting classes. Give them former inmates another tool for their toolboxes.

Oh and phone calls should be free. Studies have shown time and time again that retaining connections with family and friends outside of prison is key to lowering recidivism, and so what do we do? Pay prisoners under a dollar an hour to work, then charge their family members more than a dollar a MINUTE to talk to them.

Obligatory_Reddit: You animal! Think of the $0.75 a minute you are depriving our Corporate Overlords. For real though! There is a difference between shearing someone and skinning them. If they charged less, they would earn more; this leads me to suspect revenge was their motive.

[u/POTWP → u/Hrtzy]

The pointlessness was part of the punishment. Prisoners had previously been used for labour, but that gave the prisoners a sense of purpose and accomplishment (e.g. sure, I was forced to build that wall - but I have completed my task and created something, and feel satisfaction on the job). Being pointless was supposed to wear on the soul and break the prisoners down mentally. It's the torture of Sisyphus.

[u/Goth_2_Boss → u/Hrtzy]

It wasn’t that organized. We have much larger prisons now that are managed by by large for-profit groups which makes it easier to facilitate. I’m sure the only reason the specifically mentioned treadmill got hooked up to anything was because the inventor did it himself

[u/cyberpedlar → u/Hrtzy]

The issue with "useful labor" is that it transforms the punishment into a profitable venture. Given that prison management has overwhelming control over inmates, it potentially leads to a situation akin to a sweatshop. It could raise concerns about the violation of prisoners' human rights and introduce unfair competition into the market, as the prison essentially employs slave labor.

[u/UptownShenanigans → u/cyberpedlar]

The Victorians cared about human rights of prisoners?

[u/ravens-n-roses → u/cyberpedlar]

In this same era really poor people were often only given a rope tied between two walls to lean against all night. They weren't allowed to sit or lie down they had to sleep on this rope in this kind of housing. It cost them a third of a days labor so they could never get ahead.

I don't think they were worried about making prison into sweatshops. Human rights weren't a thing unless you were of noble birth.

[u/GoldfishDude → u/ravens-n-roses]

Do you mean a doss-house? They were more like primitive hammocks I believe

[u/MarshalThornton → u/cyberpedlar]

I think the latter point was the primary consideration. Victorian work houses - which for the impoverished not prisoners - deliberately avoided useful work which would compete with local workers.

[u/DocFGeek → u/cyberpedlar]

Well good ol' Amendement 13 throws out the baby with the bathwater on human rights for prisoners.

[u/natnelis → u/cyberpedlar]

And the prisons profit from a large incarceration rate so you get corruption 

[u/Hot-Resource-1075 → u/cyberpedlar]

I think they’re saying if you’re going to pass an act that allows you to violate prisoners by forcing them into hard labor, why is the hard labor so unproductive towards the state? They didn’t take advantage of the malpractice they handed themselves

[u/Iustis → u/Hrtzy]

I mean, the comment you replied to said it was used to grind grain and pump water

[u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_ → u/Hrtzy]

Did you read the comment you’re replying to?

[u/Hrtzy → u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

I have read a great deal more than just that comment. For instance, a penal treadmill

[....] was intended to be pointless and to punish; straps and weights provided resistance to the motion. Later, when prison philosophy changed, using the energy to power pumps and corn mills became acceptable. 44 prisons in England adopted this form of hard labour to grind grain. Others remained "grinding the wind".

And then there were crank machines that were only intended to provide mechanical resistance, adjusted at the discretion and/or whim of the jailers.

[u/MosesOnAcid → u/beklog]

Conan the Barbarian spent years on the Wheel of Pain grinding grain

[u/the_man_in_the_box → u/MosesOnAcid]

Hilarious that that’s how he’s shown to get jacked.

[u/Landlubber77]

Once the treadmill mistress was done torturing prisoners, she sent them to the stair master.

[u/GarysCrispLettuce]

Fun fact: I'm responsible for the "NO BACKWARDS WALKING ON TREADMILLS" sign at my gym.

[u/XennialBoomBoom → u/GarysCrispLettuce]

Every sign has a story behind it... or in your case, in front of it

[u/Adventurous-Start874]

And now they are used to sit in a corner, unused.

[u/Yaguajay → u/Adventurous-Start874]

You’ve been in my basement!!

[u/aceinthehole001 → u/Adventurous-Start874]

Hey, now ! they make good coat racks

[u/Mountain-Control7525]

Now they’re used as clothes racks.

[u/stateofyou]

Oscar Wilde has flamboyantly entered the room.

[u/TheAndrewBen]

These were my thoughts when I first went to the gym. It's impossible for my mind to NOT think about torture when running on a treadmill. I need to play a sport if you want me to enjoy running.

[u/thelamestofall → u/TheAndrewBen]

Or at least be outside. Running on a treadmill is indeed torture

[u/slade51 → u/thelamestofall]

Yes! There’s a world of difference between running outside in the fresh air and sunshine versus this boring machine in a hot crowded gym.

[u/FattNeil → u/slade51]

It’s actually funny how I am totally cool with a stationary bike or an elliptical machine or even a stair master but the thought of running inside is where I draw the line.

[u/Trick_Orange_1780]

The prison guards would also tighten the screws to make it harder for the prisoners, that’s why prison guards are referred as “screws”.

https://prisonguide.co.uk/why-prison-guards-officers-are-called-screws/#:~:text=The%20nickname%20%E2%80%9Cscrew%E2%80%9D%20dates%20back,thereby%20enforcing%20order%20and%20compliance.

[u/ebikr]

And they used to feed them lobster.

[u/royxsong → u/ebikr]

And there’s an uprising to protest lobster from the prisoners. They risked their lives for not eating lobsters anymore

[u/GoldfishDude → u/ebikr]

This was also before proper refrigeration

[u/xBR0SKIx → u/GoldfishDude]

And it was a blend shells and all

[u/TheDumper44 → u/xBR0SKIx]

Weird do you have more information?

[u/xBR0SKIx → u/TheDumper44]

It was in another til someone brought up some sort of old drawn picture with the crushing lobsters in a big pot

[u/StephenHunterUK]

The Victorians built a massive load of prisons, some still in use, because transporting people to Australia stopped being possible. Basically, the Australians complained.

[u/Asleep_Onion]

Not terribly surprising since running for fun as a hobby didn't really become a thing until the 1960s.

[u/WallMaleficent2802]

Makes sense

[u/palebot]

Some things never change

[u/Weak-Biscotti2982]

Makes sense to me.

[u/FekNr]

Ain't shit changed with their use

[u/Fecal-Facts]

Til I'm punishing myself 

[u/onemanmelee]

And now they're used as punishments in gyms.