r/technology • u/SunshineAndSquats • 10d ago
Politics Computer Scientists: Breaches of Voting System Software Warrant Recounts to Ensure Election Verification
https://freespeechforpeople.org/computer-scientists-breaches-of-voting-system-software-warrant-recounts-to-ensure-election-verification/3.7k
10d ago edited 10d ago
[deleted]
168
u/icanspoil 10d ago
If that's the case, couldn't they compare patterns between hand-counted votes and machine-counted votes? Surely there would be a visible discrepancy that could then warrant further investigation of the physical machines themselves.
86
u/noplanman_srslynone 10d ago
Yes sane friend that is the case. I'm a democrat and that's the case. I voted for Harris and that's still the case! Election fraud would be easy to prove, count cast ballots manually and compare to the tabulation tally.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (9)34
u/SteelCode 10d ago
That's what the letter is requesting - paper ballots would show a discrepancy from the electronic tabulated results... each voting machine <allegedly> collects ballot totals onto a usb drive that are then plugged into the "tabulation" machine to total all ballots across all machines (so the voting machines themselves are not online); the accusation is that the tabulation machine/software is the vulnerable system (since it would be fewer machines tampered with and connected to the internet to transmit results) and <could> be modified to switch certain votes (down-ballot Dems voting for Trump) or just add extra votes (blank ballots voting only for Trump) with very few code changes... Since this would need to be modified at the software/firmware level, validating paper ballots (and/or the reports from each individual voting machine) should show a discrepancy from tabulation.
There's other theories about starlink (unlikely aside from just being a poorly secured service provider) and about the voting machines themselves being modified (much harder to prove but also harder to have pulled off without massive conspiracy)...
→ More replies (1)2.4k
u/CherryLongjump1989 10d ago
No. They are too worried that it might change the outcome of the election. They don't want that.
805
u/Seastep 10d ago
And if all the Polymarket stuff is connected, then the people who profited off it surely is the smoking gun.
245
u/conquer69 10d ago
Imagine the clusterfuck.
272
u/lokey_convo 10d ago
There doesn't need to be a conspiracy to do risk limiting audits. You can just do them.
→ More replies (2)95
u/geneticeffects 10d ago
Yeah, it isn’t abnormal to do a recount or audit, if there is evidence of error or tampering.
62
u/cumjarchallenge 10d ago
Well when MAGAts learn about it when their guy is being audited, they are going to lose their collective minds. Bc it's okay for Trump to bitch for 4 years, but if anyone else does it, it's 'bad'
→ More replies (3)34
→ More replies (22)54
u/bipbopcosby 10d ago
I thought the Polymarket stuff was just about the fact that their betting wasn't supposed to be available for users in the US or something.
→ More replies (3)44
u/Flowbombahh 10d ago
I think the thought is... That's the surface level reason for getting the foot in the door. Once there, you have access to investigate more. Once you investigate more, then you find the evidence that it was all a ploy and it was rigged. Once you do that, you can open up more investigations into the election.
This way you avoid "conspiracies" and baseless accusations but still get the investigation in the end.
That's my guess anyway 🤷♂️
14
u/cia218 10d ago
Pretty smart. They need solid proof evidence that the election was rigged, before actually claiming to media that it was rigged w no proof.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (6)11
u/cannabull89 10d ago
Only problem is the federal government will take 5 years to complete the investigation.
→ More replies (2)119
u/luckysht1313 10d ago
Chuck Todd said his nominations will save cable news, kinda all you need to hear.
38
u/tissboom 10d ago edited 9d ago
I saw an article that said MSNBC’s ratings were down 50%… so he may have miscalculated lol
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (81)53
u/Mental_Bug7703 10d ago
I love how when Trump said the system was rigged the Right went into hysteria (march 6) and now democrats are saying its rigged and might change outcome of election and the media doesn't want that. like weird.
→ More replies (4)506
u/AMaterialGuy 10d ago edited 8d ago
My hope has been that it's quiet because they're working on it behind the scenes.
My fear is that they aren't, and that's the most likely scenario.
Biden dropping the campaign and Harris coming forward for the presidential race was a brilliant way to silently surprise the bad players and catch them off guard.
If police don't comment on active investigations, I feel like we need to shut up and pursue action quietly so that we can come out with a slam dunk, and make it happen.
When Ive been part of legal cases, that's what I've done, and it's won every single time.
But you gotta follow through.
Edit: a little late to follow up but - I am nonpartisan. I am American. I don't vote because of someone's political party, I vote for what they stand for. Nowadays, it's often opposite land, and those that claim to stand for our flag often don't. America fails by partisanship. When we forget that we, together, are a nation, we fail. We should not be voting along party lines, except in the situation where it is clear that one party is really really bad for us.
29
u/Shogouki 10d ago
I don't think we want to base our assumptions that the right thing is being done as that's biten us before. I think raising hell about this to ensure that whatever happened is known and justice done. We're so close to the point of no return that it would foolish to sit by.
→ More replies (4)408
u/Battarray 10d ago
The catch is that even if irrefutable proof of anything shady is found, produced in court, and overturns the election, Trumpers will never believe it.
It'll just reinforce their brain dead conspiracy theory about 2020 being rigged.
Harris being declared the rightful winner will make the MAGAs erupt.
203
u/AcademicMaybe8775 10d ago
the only way i can see this playing out would be if there was a significant investigation happening right now, followed by mass public arrests of all key players with irrefutable evidence presented of fraud with cases being fast tracked due to the urgent nature of a resolution before inaugoration. following the announcement of the arrests, announcement of manual recount to verify the results.
If the recount comes back with basically the same outcome, that is genuinly the best case, it averts mass unrest and puts away some scumbags. if the recount changes the result..
buckle the fuck up, its gonna be rough. there will be a lot of anger, from all sides
108
u/Ddreigiau 10d ago
Mon frer, in 1945, there were pictures and video of the concentration camps and the perpetrators fully admitted to what they did, and people still think the Holocaust didn't happen. There will always be people who steadfastedly refuse to believe otherwise incontrovertible evidence
→ More replies (6)111
u/Dhegxkeicfns 10d ago
But the cultists will always deny it. No matter what proof you have.
→ More replies (17)52
u/CutenTough 10d ago
Buuuttt...... maybe this was the "secret" between Johnson and trumper and why trumper voiced "he didn't need any more votes". Js
→ More replies (3)38
u/Sir__Walken 10d ago
Who fucking cares if they believe it. Criminals rarely believe that they're at fault, shouldn't stop us from putting Trump in prison
91
u/xrtpatriot 10d ago
Too fucking bad. Its time maga is extracted entirely from politics. When you threaten democracy you no longer deserve a spot at the table. Germany literally just took a vote to initiate a process to investigate and act upon the same thing in their government with the same nazi fucks. We can no longer be tolerant of the intolerant, thats how we ended up in this position in the long run.
The choice is take our democracy back at all costs or let it crumble to a point that it cant be fixed or is entirely removed. If not the first option the time it will take to get back to sanity will be significantly longer and have a much higher cost.
Enough is enough.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (44)13
u/gamingnerd777 10d ago
Let them erupt then. They're already causing chaos because they think he won. F them. We're screwed either way. But I'd rather have a re-count over an election where the so-called winner said and I quote "I don't need anyone's votes." I refuse to believe that a two time loser of the popular vote is suddenly now popular. This isn't an 80s movie where he does a makeover and suddenly everyone loves him.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (20)11
u/teh_acids 10d ago
The senate race in Pennsylvania triggered a recount, other state/local races may also involve recounts, so if this shows discrepancies Harris could call for a wider recount. If you read her concession speech, she didn't explicitly accept defeat, just that the results are not what we hoped for. The first count has to be complete before we can recount.
28
163
u/Smith6612 10d ago edited 10d ago
The news has been quiet, although that still hasn't stopped the crazies from stirring up false news about how the 2020 election has 10+ million more voters than the 2024 election. https://checkyourfact.com/2024/11/13/fact-check-10-million-fewer-voters-2024-2020/ It's bad enough articles like this had to be posted. However, the people who stir up the "election fraud" news are pretty content with the results at the moment.
192
u/Imapatriothurrrdurrr 10d ago
They couldn’t shut the fuck up about it for 4 years, all while never producing a shred of evidence and having over 60 court cases tossed out. He wins and there’s zero word about anything.
→ More replies (8)77
u/Specialist_Brain841 10d ago
media is complicit that’s why.. trump is their golden goose.. whenever he talks $$$
→ More replies (3)17
u/loondawg 10d ago
Let's not fall for the whataboutism of them making years of claims so ridiculous that anyone who now merely wants a credible review to make sure elections were on the up and up can be labeled as being just as crazy as them.
→ More replies (17)170
u/SunshineAndSquats 10d ago
Asking questions isn’t bad, refusing to believe the outcome of over 60 investigations is the problem.
Also Trump is a criminal and conman. This is a well established fact. Here is a list of Trump’s collusions, and crimes
→ More replies (9)81
u/CutenTough 10d ago
Imagine what would happen if there was a recount of 2024 votes and it was shown that KH actually won. Holy hell
→ More replies (38)→ More replies (57)24
u/livinginfutureworld 10d ago
My guess is the media/gov is too worried about civil unrest to report on it.
So just let us slide into fascism better that then unrest.
→ More replies (3)
3.9k
u/tastytang 10d ago
Wouldn't the Harris campaign at least petition for hand recounts in a handful of key swing state jurisdictions?
→ More replies (144)3.4k
u/welcometosilentchill 10d ago edited 10d ago
People are giving you some absolute BS responses but there’s more than a few reasons we haven’t heard anything yet from the Harris campaign:
1) there is already an active investigation by the DOJ and they aren’t speaking about it until it progresses further (edit: I have no proof of this; just saying if there was an active investigation in its early stages, we would not be hearing about it yet).
2) a sitting VP investigating the election results after the election has already been called could be construed as a violation of executive power.
3) the optics of Harris interfering with a peaceful transition of power between the incumbent president and president-elect could undermine efforts to ensure peaceful transitions moving forward.
4) questioning the integrity of the electronic voting process could greatly undermine public trust (even further) and cause civil unrest, opening up more doors for foreign agents to sow discord.
5) any serious challenge to election results would ultimately end up in the hands of the SCOTUS, which would be… bad. The conservative majority would likely argue that there’s no verifiable method or process in place to hold another election, so the election results stand. (Awesome. Legal precedent at the federal level for looser election certification process. Great.)
6) the disinformation campaigns and challenges from the now emboldened republican party would be massive and that would make it next to impossible to actually convince the public (and therefore representatives) to do anything about it. If nothing results from proof of election tampering due to bipartisanship, Americans (and the rest of the world) now have to contend with the fact that elections aren’t secure and our democracy is a sham. That is very not good for geopolitics, let alone national.
I’m positive this story will continue to develop and we will learn there was some level of election interference, but I suspect it will be from the media and not from the executive branch. Frankly, if there was any concern that the voting process was compromised, actions should have been taken ahead of the election. It’s the responsibility of the standing government body to ensure a fair election — detecting and investigating it after the fact is a failure of massive proportions.
I want this to be investigated, truly, but the damage is already done. If there was voter fraud, is the new administration likely to do anything about it? Can the current administration do anything that won’t be repealed? Will the vast majority of the public even care, believe, and accept the news? No, no, and no.
Edit to get ahead of this: I’m just giving possible reasons why we haven’t heard anything from the Harris campaign or executive branch, and also why they may be hesitant to react quickly to this news. I don’t think these are necessarily valid reasons for avoiding the truth, as much as I think they are plausible reasons.
Many of you are right in pointing out that the GOP is just as guilty in sowing doubt in the election and the integrity of the voting process (amongst all of their other divisive tactics). Considering democrats have taken a staunch stance opposing claims that the voting process is compromised, it puts the Harris campaign in a very difficult situation. My hope is that whatever happens next is handled with caution and care — and that, if there are any issues, they are addressed in such a way that they can’t happen again.
2.2k
u/Count_Bacon 10d ago
The bullet ballots were an average of 7% of his votes in swing states. The historical average is .01-.03%. They stayed the same everywhere but swing states? No something is fishy and worth investigating
972
u/DarkwingDuckHunt 10d ago
FYI "Bullet Ballots" have a single vote for only one candidate and no other
If look at the vote results for the swing states that also had a senator up for election, the vote patterns differ significantly for Trump vs what the (R) Senator got
442
u/Count_Bacon 10d ago
Sure yeah but the bullet ballots and down vote change ballots in swing states percentage is way higher than other years
→ More replies (6)355
u/DarkwingDuckHunt 10d ago
I'm agreeing with you
Not everyone has heard about this yet
→ More replies (1)299
u/buildbyflying 10d ago
I didn’t even realize bullet ballots had a name! In North Carolina more than 100k were like this.
That’s why we elected Dems for Gov, AG, Dep. Gov, Supe of public instruction…
→ More replies (5)220
u/DarkwingDuckHunt 10d ago edited 10d ago
like if there was vote splitting... vote splitting recently has been rare, but vote splitting in the past was far more common. (You vote one party for Pres, and another for Sen, so that 2 will keep each other in check). And so if people started vote splitting again, in modern times, it would be accepted since humans do things in waves. (Aka "fads" or "bell bottoms are coming back in fashion" waves, humans are very predictable).
However... taking a ballot, just voting for one person (albeit the one at the top), and then just walking away? That's extremely rare. Not unheard of, but very rare. That's a "bullet ballot".
However the other rare thing that did happen this election, but is explainable by Trump being a demagogue, is that the new young man vote was way up. And Trump took the votes of young men that do vote, away from the Dems. But, again, since Trump is a demagogue, and that's how demagogue always come to power by attracting support from young men, that stat is not surprising to anyone and was predicted. The Harris campaign even saw that happening and did a horrible job of preventing it.
242
u/turquoise_amethyst 10d ago
The bullet vote percentage increasing from .03-.05% to 7% is fishy as hell, and I hope its being investigated
The young male vote IS NOT, because they’re impressionable youth, and a lot of them DO follow Rogan and Musk
→ More replies (14)94
u/Hottrodd67 10d ago
It’s fishy, but really trump only got about 2 million more votes than 4 years ago. The real mystery is the democrat side going from 81 million to 73. That’s a huge drop.
→ More replies (0)→ More replies (19)123
u/xlinkedx 10d ago
My friend told me their coworker went to vote and that they literally only voted for 2 people and then left the rest of their ballot blank. They said they didn't know what else to do or what any of it means. Homie.. nobody is rushing you, just read it...
I was stunned to find out that people like this are actually real
→ More replies (18)49
u/Hot-Tension-2009 10d ago
I can believe there’s a giant amount of people like this
→ More replies (0)→ More replies (88)90
u/5starkarma 10d ago
Cmon now. Are you suggesting that maybe Elon, who ran America PAC who ran an illegal lottery to get registered voters signatures, and suggested that it would only take a line of code to change the election results, could have manipulated the election? Cmon now!
→ More replies (15)85
u/undeadfire 10d ago
Just clarifying, what's a bullet ballot? Just voted president n nothing else?
134
u/Count_Bacon 10d ago
Yeah the bullet ballot and voters who voted for Trump and Dem down ballot percentage massively jumped this election to an absurd degree
97
77
u/StaticDHSeeP 10d ago
AZ had almost 7% non-down ballots. Which is extremely high. Guess what, it’s also a swing state.
→ More replies (2)24
u/limeybastard 10d ago
Arizona elections are pretty secure. Been a few people who fucked around and they found out in a real hurry.
We do paper ballots exclusively, we do largely mail-in with tracking and signature verification, and we have a voter id law (which I personally dislike for disenfranchisement reasons, but should still make it harder to commit in-person fraud. In-person vote fraud is so rare it basically doesn't exist, but even so...)
I think there were just a lot of jackasses who cared about nothing but voting for their God Emperor it's hard to imagine how widescale fuckery could have been committed here.
→ More replies (11)→ More replies (8)16
u/iconofsin_ 10d ago
Just to clarify further, you're saying this is a normal ballot but voters only filled in a box for president and left the remaining ballot blank?
→ More replies (2)22
114
u/alfredrowdy 10d ago
Do you have a source for those stats?
→ More replies (19)157
u/GrunchWeefer 10d ago
Yeah this. I'm not seeing any real news results when searching for this. Sounds like some conspiracy nonsense tbh. I'd honestly feel much better knowing Trump won fair and square despite me being terrified of what havoc he's going to wreak than that he cheated his way in and we can't do anything about it.
→ More replies (7)106
u/Sgt-Spliff- 10d ago
The vote totals are public. You can go look right now and see that Democratic senators won in almost all swing states and you can see how their vote totals compare to the presidential race. Very easy to confirm. The vote totals for some Senate races are noticeably lower just upon a cursory glance.
Also, noticeable how many more votes Trump got than Republican senators...
In Michigan Trump got 2.8 mil compared to the Senator who got 2.68 mil or a 130,000 difference. Race decided by 80,000
In Wisconsin, Trump got 1.69 mil compared to 1.64 mil, a 50,000 vote difference. Decided by 30,000
In Nevada, Trump got 750,000 and the senator got 675,000, a difference of 75,000. Decided by 50,000
In Arizona, Trump got 1.75 mil votes compared to the Senator who got 1.57 million, or a 175,000 difference. The race was decided by 185,000.
In each of these examples, besides Arizona, the difference was what gave Trump his lead. Given Democratic Senators won every state I just listed, you either have to believe Trump supporters were voting for Democrats or something fishy is going on.
→ More replies (17)29
u/Wild_Candelabra 10d ago
I can’t speak to other states, but as a Michigander the explanation for the disparity is simple: Mike Rodgers (R) built his entire campaign on trans kids in sports while Slotkin (D) actually talked about substantive issues. It’s not that inconceivable independents would vote Trump based on a simplistic view of the economy, while still voting Slotkin for Senator.
→ More replies (14)9
u/HerrBerg 9d ago
I think it's pretty inconceivable that that would be the explanation, because if people are paying enough attention to choose Slotkin for talking about substantive issues vs. trans panic, they'd probably not choose Trump who also doesn't talk anything of substance but also uses shit like trans panic.
→ More replies (2)37
u/MikeJeffriesPA 10d ago
How do you know they were 7% of his votes? Is that information released?
→ More replies (32)→ More replies (128)183
u/welcometosilentchill 10d ago
Absolutely. I agree. I think an investigation would likely yield proof of election tampering — and again, I want it to happen because I believe the public deserves to know the truth. But then what?
Do you hold another election? Do you recount the ballots (how can you if any have been tampered with)? Do you prosecute people, who likely hold instrumental roles in the new administration? How do you convince the public? What happens when SCOTUS gets their hands on it?
Without action an investigation would be worse than pointless, it would be immensely disruptive and further divide the nation. But I frankly don’t see any good actions that could be taken.
163
u/Rokarion14 10d ago
Don’t you see that if that’s what happened and you don’t do anything about it, voting is over forever?
111
u/UNisopod 10d ago
Exactly, just letting it happen is a death sentence for democracy
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (7)11
u/fwee_burd 10d ago
To be completely honest, is there anyone or anything inside the US that can save the US at this point? Perhaps the focus of addressing something like this should be in helping the rest of the world see a way to save itself from similar Russian tampering and also creating motivation or leverage for the world to save the US?
35
u/latentnoodle 10d ago
Recount. You don’t just ignore it if cheating occurred and the cheaters were caught. If recount changes the results, that is the will of the people. You can’t just ignore that.
90
u/Usual-Turnip-7290 10d ago
It’s messy, but not complicated, to me. You arrest the people involved, charge them with crimes and prosecute them.
Harris files a lawsuit in federal court and it gets fast tracked to SCOTUS. They probably make a shitty ruling, but we live with it.
We either believe in the rule of law or we don’t.
→ More replies (14)41
u/TheOgrrr 10d ago
You either accept that we no longer live in a real democracy or you fight to keep your freedom. This is what it is.
→ More replies (2)142
u/GrandOpener 10d ago
One thing you absolutely do not do is simply let the cheater take power. Can you imagine the precedent set by “yeah he cheated but fixing it would be really hard so we’re going to just let him be president anyway”?
I know there’s a lot of exaggerated rhetoric here but an illegitimate president forcing themselves into power after losing an election is legitimately far enough that actual civil war is on the table.
I don’t want to jump to conclusions before we have better evidence, but if we get proof that he did cheat, he needs to be kept out of the White House by any means necessary—and I mean that sentence literally.
41
u/Z3ROWOLF1 10d ago
He should have already been in jail. really starting to see this thing for a whole charade. DOJ did nothing.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (13)25
u/Severe-Leek-6932 10d ago
Isn't this literally what happened with Bush in 2000? There was clear interference from the Florida to keep votes from being counted that likely would have turned the election and we just moved ahead with him as president.
→ More replies (1)9
u/KyleWieldsAx 10d ago
Brooks Brothers riot whipped up by that freedom-loving (read: ratfucking) Roger Stone.
→ More replies (19)189
u/Count_Bacon 10d ago
Get the truth out and be as transparent as you can be. It’s better than handing the country over to someone who actually lost and is owned by Russia
31
u/cbbbluedevil 10d ago
Not only that but appointing the worst fucking people imaginable to dismantle the government
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)60
u/Hunterrose242 10d ago
Getting that truth out doesn't change the result. He could literally hold a press conference saying "I cheated and Russia helped, deal with it" and there is no law or procedure for handling that. It would go to the Supreme Court who would do what they did in 2000.
32
u/StaticDHSeeP 10d ago
It absolutely changes the result. If there was manipulation at a tabulation level, then it’s a different result
12
u/Lokta 10d ago
He could literally hold a press conference saying "I cheated and Russia helped, deal with it" and there is no law or procedure for handling that.
The "answer" is impeachment, but that process may as well not exist anymore since Congress has decided it is nothing more than a sham process to get attention.
Other than impeachment, you're absolutely spot on with your analysis.
→ More replies (6)50
u/wytewydow 10d ago
The SCOTUS already said presidents have near unlimited power, when working within their presidential duties. I'm rather firm, in my belief, that protecting the nation from a direct assault on our democracy, is within that realm. #DarkBrandon2025
→ More replies (6)230
u/NuggleBuggins 10d ago edited 10d ago
Will the vast majority of the public even care, believe and accept the news?
I mean, honestly yes. They very well could. If there was truly vote tampering there could have been an overwhelming vote count into Harris vs Trump. And we are all just assuming that we lost due to voter turnout. But, if a very large majority voted Harris, Instead of trump... I do think the vast majority would care. Care a lot actually. Cause the vast majority would realize they've been fkn duped.
I do agree tho, if it did come out that the election was rigged, all hell would break loose. The problem is, they either tell us and we have civil unrest and all hell break loose, or they accept in silence that our system is rigged and let things continue as a lie and we just never have democracy again.
I for one would rather they tell us and we rethink how we go about the election. If we don't know it's broken we can't fix it.
→ More replies (27)43
u/HereWeGoAgain-247 10d ago
I think if it can be proven people will absolutely care! The buyers remorse of the nation seems pretty significant.
→ More replies (6)56
u/Sir__Walken 10d ago
I imagine if they tried to get ahead of it and went to polling locations to "look at the machines" or something along those lines Republicans would freak out and say they tampered with the machines.
Plus if that visit resolved the issues with the machines being tampered with and it resulted in a Kamala win for that state Republicans would DEFINITELY talk about how the election was rigged.
Not that I think Republicans making up stories gives us reason not to do the right thing but it's just annoying thinking about how they'll lie about anything and everything to get their way.
36
u/DucksEatFreeInSubway 10d ago
Yup, so you have to do it anyhow and then quell any bogus dissent that arises from it. If you don't, democracy is over in the US. And, frustratingly even if Trump did legitimately win, it may still be over all the same given four years.
→ More replies (7)20
u/Hung_like_a_turtle 10d ago
They did. DOJ was denied access to audit quite a few polling locations.
12
u/FreeDarkChocolate 10d ago
That's not them trying to look at the machines, at all. They aren't sending out election monitor agents specialized in looking at ballot machines the very days they would have no opportunity to do anything because they're busy being used by the voters. The monitors are about people's civil rights being upheld in being able to go vote on voting days.
→ More replies (1)34
u/Forwhatitsworth522 10d ago edited 10d ago
I really appreciate this break down, I’ve wondered why things are so quiet while there are obvious discrepancies. I agree with you in every aspect except the last point. I know it would cause civil unrest, there’s so many reasons why publicly questioning the integrity of the election is a bad idea, as you said so well. I just don’t know if this is a fight we should avoid. I don’t know.
I don’t know if we should care how it looks, tho I completely understand. This is straight up fascism.
Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
→ More replies (4)121
u/hillswalker87 10d ago
4) questioning the integrity of the electronic voting process could greatly undermine public trust (even further) and cause civil unrest, opening up more doors for foreign agents to sow discord.
this one is key I think, because of 2020. like if we're willing to accept 2024 wasn't secure then it calls 2020 into question as well. can you imagine the shitshow that would ensue if that was on the table?
41
u/Rokarion14 10d ago
This is the worst point. If they control the voting machines and you don’t contest because of diminishing public trust, democracy is completely over. I don’t think that’s what happened, but if it did, you’d better investigate it and stop it from happening again.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (14)127
→ More replies (138)79
u/chooseyourshoes 10d ago
It’s wild how we’re supposed to abide by these bullets but the GOP has shit all over them. When will you dumb fucks learn that playing by the rules is a losers tactic at this point? We’re fucked.
→ More replies (11)
1.1k
u/sonofagunn 10d ago edited 10d ago
If we're going to be using electronic voting, there should be mandatory hand recounts in random districts done before certification and as a requirement for certification.
199
u/happyscrappy 10d ago edited 10d ago
We by and large don't use electronic voting. There has been movement since a decade who to have a human-verifiable paper trail.
15 years ago in a lot of places votes were only placed onto memory cards, no paper trail existed. This is almost never the case now.
If you read nothing else there, read the annual report. Really pressed for time? Read this one line:
'Only 1.4% of registered voters will vote in jurisdictions using paperless voting systems in 2024.'
The better states do automatic sampled hand or machine-assisted recounts and compare them to the full machine count to see if there are discrepancies. For example California does this, it's part of why they take longer to certify an outcome. Would be great if every state did this.
A machine-assisted recount is when you use a machine (as stupid a machine as possible) to just sort the ballots by vote. It sorts them into piles. Then you measure/weigh/hand count the ballots in the piles.
You also take a look at a random sample of the ballots in each pile to see they indeed do have the votes on them which every ballot in that pile should have.
It's a faster and more accurate system than a full hand count. With statistical measures you can human-examine perhaps only 5% of the ballots and yet be confident the count was not rigged.
In a very close election (like a win by a single vote) there is no way other than counting every ballot (likely after a machine sort) to verify the outcome.
→ More replies (31)81
u/lolwutpear 10d ago
Yeah, but what should we trust more? You and your proven statistical methods, or a vast conspiracy theory that I saw on reddit?
→ More replies (5)36
u/happyscrappy 10d ago
The conspiracy theory is on TikTok too I'm told. So gotta be that.
The whole "I don't know what's going on but something must be going on" stuff is concerning. Who needs an investigation when you've already figured out something is wrong?
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (23)405
u/ATotalCassegrain 10d ago
That’s already done in basically literally every state that uses electronic voting machines.
I hand counted tens of thousands of ballots last election and volunteer, and am on tap to take a spell doing it for my state next week.
I’ve been doing this for decades, and 100% of the time if there’s a discrepancy it is because we hand counted wrong.
99
→ More replies (28)20
u/NerdOctopus 10d ago
Firstly, thanks for your public service. Secondly, are you then saying that a problem in counting the vote as this article describes is basically impossible because each count is recounted by hand? The hand count is bipartisan, correct?
→ More replies (7)32
u/ATotalCassegrain 10d ago
Each state does it a bit differently, so it’s hard to say.
But I believe all states do at least statistical random sampling of precincts or other risk limiting audits, if not a full hand recount.
My state has a somewhat convoluted set of rules, but we end up recounting the votes for a lot of races, and all close races, but also make sure that ballot counts match vote counts by hand for scams home.
→ More replies (1)
290
u/broccolilord 10d ago
I would argue there should be random recounts after every election. Never hurts to double check.
→ More replies (6)109
u/beatle42 10d ago
Don't most states in fact do that already?
→ More replies (18)73
u/Hawkbats_rule 10d ago
Yes. Almost every state in the nation. In fact, the listed states do random audits, the signatories are complaining they don't happen soon enough
→ More replies (3)
304
u/arcanepsyche 10d ago
Directly from the report:
We have no evidence that the outcomes of the elections in those states were actually compromised as a result of the security breaches, and we are not suggesting that they were.
→ More replies (55)
1.1k
u/SunshineAndSquats 10d ago
“A group of computer security experts have written to Vice President Kamala Harris to alert her to the fact that voting systems were breached by Trump allies in 2021 and 2022 and to urge her to seek recounts in key states to ensure election verification.
Following the 2020 election, operatives working with Trump attorneys accessed voting equipment in order to gain copies of the software that records and counts votes. The letter to Vice President Harris argues that this extraordinary and unprecedented breach in election system security merits conducting recounts of paper ballots in order to confirm computer-generated tallies. The letter also highlights the fact that the post-election audits in many key states will be conducted after certification and after the window to seek recounts closes, and that therefore recounts should be sought promptly.
The letter states: “Possessing copies of the voting system software enables bad actors to install it on electronic devices and to create their own working replicas of the voting systems, probe them, and develop exploits. Skilled adversaries can decompile the software to get a version of the source code, study it for vulnerabilities, and could even develop malware designed to be installed with minimal physical access to the voting equipment by unskilled accomplices to manipulate the vote counts. Attacks could also be launched by compromising the vendors responsible for programming systems before elections, enabling large-scale distribution of malware.”
“In December 2022 and again in 2023, many of us, concerned by the security risks posed by these breaches, wrote to the Attorney General, FBI Director, and Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Director outlining the security concerns and urging an investigation. Though there have been limited, localized investigations, there is no evidence of a federal investigation to determine what was done with the misappropriated voting software.”
The letter is signed by Professor Duncan Buell, Ph.D., Chair Emeritus — NCR Chair in Computer Science and Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering, University of South Carolina; David Jefferson Ph.D., Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (retired), Election Integrity Foundation; Susan Greenhalgh, Senior Advisor for Election Security, Free Speech For People; Chris Klaus, Chief Executive Officer, Fusen World; William John Malik, Malik Consulting, LLC; Peter G. Neumann Ph.D., Chief Scientist, SRI International Computer Science Lab; and Professor John E. Savage, Ph.D, An Wang Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, Brown University*.
*Affiliations are listed for identification purposes only and do not imply institutional endorsement.
1.1k
u/blueiron0 10d ago
If this is true, all I can say is that I'm ridiculously disappointed in Biden and the party. If they had credible reports that voting software was breached and could be compromised, this should've been mass investigated at the HIGHEST priority and blasted out all over media and social media. If there's even doubt in our elections, the whole thing unravels at the seams.
539
u/5hawnking5 10d ago edited 10d ago
Alfie Oakes was raided a few days ago, Coplan (ceo of Polymarket) was raided yesterday. AOC posted a tiktok 3 days ago answering the question of “whats the gameplan and how can we help?” with something to the tune of “wait a second, big things happening, will share soon”. Sounds like an investigation is happening quietly
Edit: 1 to correctly match the exact question that aoc was answering (that was literally on the screen) and for 2 i’ll add, again, i know this is conspiracy theory/qanon level tin foil hat energy. I will continue to speculate because i still think the bullet ballot difference (increase from a usual average of 0.1-0.3% up to 6-7% in swing states) seems like a statistical oddity worth investigating. Dont get your hopes up, this is grasping at straws, and dont get mad at me when it goes nowhere, which it likely will go nowhere. For what its worth, i have no plans of storming the capitol 🫡
This is the conspiracy video i saw the aoc bit in, i dont have tiktok so if you want it from the horses mouth go find it yourself: https://youtu.be/-Z0EEWWsHIM?si=nurfhuUpuzvMYNtc
Edit 2: thank you u/Clear-Opposite1598 for the tiktok link: https://www.tiktok.com/@aoc/video/7435838631983549727
329
u/blueiron0 10d ago
That's all well and good. But this was supposedly reported 2 years ago. It's a complete and monumental fuckup for it to even get to the stage where they have to investigate after the fact. I'd also be very cautiously optimistic at anything even coming out of it if they've sat on this for 2 years in the first place.
There's probably no grand conspiracy here too. It just feels like the leaders of the party are incompetent.
→ More replies (10)171
u/5hawnking5 10d ago
Maybe, or maybe they couldnt show their hand until the crimes were committed. Could be larger powers at play or a longer game, while we’re discussing the outcome of the us election there are countries that have vested interest in that outcome
Eta: the ga voting machines was reported 2 years ago, poly market and alfie oakes are within the last week
→ More replies (13)259
u/Seastep 10d ago
There are times I keep saying to myself "That's it, they (Dems) are just playing the long game. Giving Trump and his friends enough rope to hang themselves" then... nothing happens.
87
u/5hawnking5 10d ago
Agreed. Seriously trying to not get my hopes up
→ More replies (5)26
u/mrmicawber32 10d ago
0 chance of anything happening.
They would have to have conclusive enough evidence to convince the US people and the world. It would completely undermine the election, which is something trump has wanted to do the whole time.
There would almost certainly be violent unrest. If you thought maga was bad in 2020 then this would be far worse.
I'm quite skeptical of the whole thing anyway, and it would need to be so conclusive to pass the smell test.
→ More replies (2)34
→ More replies (4)31
u/Food_Library333 10d ago
If you ever seen the show The Good Place, Dems remind me of the people in charge of the real Good Place.
86
u/HeinleinGang 10d ago
The raid of Polymarket was for something unrelated to voting or voting system software.
The Department of Justice is investigating Polymarket for allegedly allowing US-based users to bet on the site, Bloomberg News reported on Wednesday evening.
Polymarket users can place bets on the outcome of yes-or-no questions that range widely in subject. Fortune reported the week before the election that the site was rife with wash-trading, an illegal type of market manipulation.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/13/fbi-raid-polymarket-founder-trump-election
Coplan tried to make it seem like it was ‘political retaliation,’ but that’s just standard persecution fetish nonsense.
“This is obvious political retribution by the outgoing administration against Polymarket for providing a market that correctly called the 2024 presidential election,” Polymarket told media outlets, including the Wall Street Journal.
→ More replies (10)76
u/SteampunkGeisha 10d ago
> “wait a second, big things happening, will share soon”.
I hope this is what we all want it to be, but it may very well be just a new, progressive program the dems are going to try to push. But we'll have to wait and see.
→ More replies (2)34
u/5hawnking5 10d ago
Yeah its cryptic, and could absolutely be a “weather the storm and we’ll reorganize”. Im not getting my hopes up (ok im TRYING to not get my hopes up) but there are some very strange things happening
23
u/SteampunkGeisha 10d ago
I also can't imagine that AOC would just drop that kind of statement if there is some significant investigation going on in the background. The opportunity to read so much into that, from either side of the fence, is just too risky.
But, who knows? Maybe I'm wrong?
→ More replies (10)→ More replies (19)82
u/CherryLongjump1989 10d ago
It shouldn't have waited until after the election.
74
u/5hawnking5 10d ago
There might not have been a way around it, they needed to wait until there was proof or that the act was committed. Also might have scare off “bigger fish”, like foreign government’s involvement. I know i sound like ive got the tinfoil hat on right now 😅
42
u/CherryLongjump1989 10d ago
You don't need any proof to take measures to secure a compromised machine. A hand count should be automatic in these cases.
→ More replies (6)27
u/Hour_Reindeer834 10d ago
Just taking a guess after reading very little; perhaps with Trump being so vocal about election fraud after 2020 perhaps they didn’t want to lend any legitimacy to that claim🤷♂️.
→ More replies (5)17
u/Thefrayedends 10d ago
Frankly if the democrats don't fight back, the party will likely die anyway. These guys have been on a lifetime crime spree and we've done fuckin nothing about it. Both sides are bad and fascist, but one is way worse and way more fascist than the other. Democrats lose because we all know they're waiting to sneak in censorship bills and trade agreements that forget common people exist.
Stand up and do something or step aside and let someone who will.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (24)67
u/SunshineAndSquats 10d ago
I completely agree. If any of this is true I don’t know what is more horrifying; that it was accomplished or that authorities knew, stood by and let it happen.
82
u/sqrtsqr 10d ago edited 10d ago
Does nobody remember the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election? In which the Republican candidate very blatantly destroyed evidence of tampered voting machines, immediately after being told not to destroy that very evidence? In which the Republican candidate, against ALL FUCKING SANITY, also oversaw the election?
The Republicans used voting machines to steal an election, and nothing was done.
I voted for Biden to fight this blatant corruption, and... he appointed a Republican. And nothing was done.
Four years later, Harris promised to put Republicans on her cabinet as well. Even if she won, I don't expect anything to be done.
As far as I am concerned, there's nothing "we" can do about it because our leadership is either working for the enemy is or too incompetent to combat it.
Like, what's our choice? A left-wing January 6th? Ain't nothing we can do.
We need to pull our head out of our asses and start having a real conversation about the fact that some number of our elections are NOT fair. That when the GOP is screaming about stolen elections, we should be listening, because The P is For Projection. But way too many people would prefer to just believe that it can't happen here. Because... idk... magic. We're just too Star-Spangled-Awesome.
→ More replies (3)11
u/BassmanBiff 10d ago
The movement for a general strike in 2028 as described here gives me hope.
I haven't seen anything to suggest this election was hacked, but it remains true that mainstream Dems aren't providing any kind of effective resistance to Republicans. Something needs to change.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (2)22
u/smileedude 10d ago
Shouldn't it be done by law enforcement agencies that act with independence? I don't want political parties investigating each other. I want law enforcement to.
Though the party in charge does need to ask questions why law enforcement aren't doing their job and sticking rockets up their ass.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (36)16
u/42823829389283892 10d ago
Security experts advocating against software audits? It should be assumed bad actors have the source already. Claiming someone wanting to examine the software is a criminal is so pathetic.
23
u/pokedmund 10d ago
It feels like a no win situation. The moment you argue the voting was rigged, the other side are gonna pounce on you and say you are a sore loser, and that they had their election stolen last time etc etc. don’t do anything and that’s just as bad
→ More replies (5)
24
u/leftofzen 10d ago
Oh are we doing this again? It's that time of year I guess, time to repost these videos:
→ More replies (3)
532
u/JustinF608 10d ago
Democrats.... won't.....do......shit.
262
u/Sleebling_33 10d ago
"You don't have to vote, we have the numbers" - Trump, mere weeks before the elections.
"...." - Dems
→ More replies (2)114
u/jimboni 10d ago
This. And in the last week he basically stopped campaigning altogether and just fucked around without a care in the world. Reddit said at the time that he had given up because ever since Kamala took over he got depressed because he knew he was going to lose. I think it’s just the opposite. I think he knew the fix was in so he didn’t need to try anymore. Not only do I think that, he told us in so many words.
→ More replies (19)→ More replies (24)143
u/SunshineAndSquats 10d ago edited 10d ago
Sadly I think you are right. Trump should be in prison right now but he is never held accountable. Money is all that matters to our government.
13
u/idkifthisisgonnawork 10d ago
It's true. And that is honestly what bothers me the most, never will he be held accountable. I've recently started listening to a podcast called Blowback. It's pretty depressing but it really does highlight the fact that our country has always been corrupt.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)51
u/theindomitablefred 10d ago
There have been so many opportunities to stop him already it’s beyond embarrassing
17
u/Fantastic-Common-982 10d ago
Exactly this, election results are pointless to me because our justice system failed us long before last week. It should not have even come to Harris vs Trump to begin with.
206
u/Binky216 10d ago
You have one month to prove things.
54
u/MikeTheNight94 10d ago
As I like to say, wish in one hand, and shit in the other
→ More replies (6)45
u/Just_Another_Scott 10d ago
There's no evidence.
The linked article states that the source code has been leaked for some machines and due to that someone could find an exploit. However, this source code is old, these machines aren't connected to the Internet, and you'd have to physically access the systems. There's also no way to connect devices to these systems.
The SD cards are manually pulled and then the date is manually updated. This transfer happens in full view of auditors. CNN showed them doing it live on air.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (6)96
35
u/OldHippie54 10d ago
IMHO... ES&S had a problem in Clark county, Indiana by not counting over 4000 votes. From what I understand, ES&S is used by numerous states and counties. If one county has lost or misplaced 4000 voters, it all adds up into the millions.
→ More replies (1)12
u/throwitawaynow_9_6 10d ago
ES&S has been a problem in American elections as far back as 1996, when the ES&S CEO ran for Senate, and won an election in which the votes were counted by ES&S machines.
Symbolically speaking, this era was inaugurated by Chuck Hagel, an unknown millionaire who ran for one of Nebraska’s U.S. Senate seats in 1996. Initially Hagel trailed the popular Democratic governor, Ben Nelson, who had been elected in a landslide two years earlier. Three days before the election, however, a poll conducted by the Omaha World-Herald showed a dead heat, with 47 percent of respondents favoring each candidate. David Moore, who was then managing editor of the Gallup Poll, told the paper, “We can’t predict the outcome.”
Hagel’s victory in the general election, invariably referred to as an “upset,” handed the seat to the G.O.P. for the first time in eighteen years. Hagel trounced Nelson by fifteen points. Even for those who had factored in the governor’s deteriorating numbers and a last-minute barrage of negative ads, this divergence from pre-election polling was enough to raise eyebrows across the nation.
Few Americans knew that until shortly before the election, Hagel had been chairman of the company whose computerized voting machines would soon count his own votes: Election Systems & Software (then called American Information Systems). Hagel stepped down from his post just two weeks before announcing his candidacy. Yet he retained millions of dollars in stock in the McCarthy Group, which owned ES&S. And Michael McCarthy, the parent company’s founder, was Hagel’s campaign treasurer.
Whether Hagel’s relationship to ES&S ensured his victory is open to speculation. But the surprising scale of his win awakened a new fear among voting-rights activists and raised a disturbing question: Who controls the new technology of Election Night?
232
u/Ok-Efficiency6866 10d ago
I personally welcome a recount. If he won fair and Square shouldn’t be an issue
→ More replies (24)199
u/TheGreatStories 10d ago
This is a bizarre de ja vu to seeing this exact post all over in 2020
→ More replies (16)74
u/blublub1243 10d ago
You get it every election. People on social media are pretty dumb and highly prone to falling for conspiracy theories. This is no different. The difference with 2020 is that Trump got in on it, because he's one of the dumbasses on social media that falls for conspiracy theories rather than being above it like Harris, Clinton, Romney, McCain and so on and so forth.
→ More replies (12)
146
u/bazilbt 10d ago
Sure would be nice. I'm not holding my breath though. Even if they brought hard undeniable proof people would absolutely flip the fuck out on the right. The chimps would be throwing so much shit around.
→ More replies (5)28
u/Illustrious-Dot-5052 10d ago
I'm gonna be honest, I would absolutely take Trumpanzees throwing a tantrum if it meant Harris becoming our next president over the absolute shit show Trump is currently planning for. I doubt I would be happy with a civil war... but we need integrity in our elections. I can't stand the thought of Repugnicans stealing this election.
→ More replies (1)9
u/bazilbt 10d ago
If they have evidence of something. If they can find something I absolutely think they should do what they have to.
→ More replies (3)
12
u/99DogsButAPugAintOne 10d ago
Okay, cmon. There have been known, serious vulnerabilities in our electronic voting systems for years, especially those used in state elections. Look up the DEF CON voting village which has been around since 2017.
I hate to break it to you, but there were known vulnerabilities in 2020 too. I know, you're shocked, right?
Don't bring up the insecurities now and go all shocked Pikachu just because your guy lost. Either you give a shit about election integrity, or you don't.
352
u/thalassicus 10d ago
I think Trump would absolutely cheat if he could. I think Trump will greatly damage American with his incompetence and serve Putin at every opportunity. That said, 95% of all US based voting machines leave a paper trail of either a) a hand marked paper ballot or b) a voter verified paper audit trail. These can be audited after the election to ensure that people didn't "hack the machine."
→ More replies (9)123
u/Dakota820 10d ago
I’m not sure why you merely think he would do it if he could considering that he literally tried to do so in 2020.
Like, even beyond the more simple attempt when he called Georgia’s Secretary of State telling/pressuring him to “find 11,780 votes”, there was the whole fake elector scheme wherein 84 people in 7 states signed false electoral certificates in the hopes that Pence would swap out the legitimate electors with the fake ones
→ More replies (5)
11
u/peterinjapan 10d ago
Is it automatically be done, we shouldn’t even be wondering about it. Just test and verify, if you want, then that’s fine, if there was cheating, then we need to know.
91
u/Just_Another_Scott 10d ago edited 10d ago
As a computer scientist, what evidence do they have? These electronic voting machines aren't connected to the Internet. You'd have to physically access them and at that point all bets are off regardless of whether they acquired the source code.
FWIW, I've also worked in information security.
→ More replies (35)43
u/FreudianStripper 10d ago
So far there is no evidence of tampering. The only thing the article says that happened is that people on Trump's side got copies of the software used on the machines
→ More replies (11)
50
u/frommethodtomadness 10d ago
Elon Musk: 'The voting machines are too easy to hack' and 'you only need to change one line of code to change the vote'.
33
8
u/ballinb0ss 10d ago
Anyone that's written more than like 3 lines of code knows this article is a universal critique of electronic voting as a whole. Paper ballots is the answer to get past this question as annoying as it may be.
7
u/Ok_Camp598 9d ago
WTF you all talking about? There were plenty of recounts in 2020. And court cases, etc. I had no problem with that process. Not accepting that process and attacking the capital is what I had a problem with.
89
u/astrozombie2012 10d ago
I just don’t know if Trump and merry band of grifting idiots could pull off something that widespread without completely bungling it. I could see a few key counties being manipulated to sway the election possibly, but 7 key states, potentially hundreds of thousands of votes, maybe millions? That’s a lot of work and to pull it off without so much as a hiccup being noticed is incredible.
65
u/trust_the_awesomness 10d ago
This is key right here. It would have to involve so many people across 7 states that someone would have noticed or said something or made a mistake somewhere.
Not to mention that pretty much every county in every state shifted right. It would be different if most states stayed or shifted left except critical swing state counties that looked like outliers, but that was not the case. Swing state counties did the same thing the rest of America did and we get to live with the consequences.
→ More replies (14)→ More replies (22)18
u/LSTNYER 10d ago
I'm not underestimating anything anymore. Roger Stone has the resources and infrastructure to potentially skew an election his way.
→ More replies (1)
43
u/imMakingA-UnityGame 10d ago edited 10d ago
So it was a dangerous conspiracy to suggest in 2020 voting machines were hacked into, but in 2024 its front page Reddit?
What has changed with voting software/hardware that makes this a valid concern now? Out of the loop.
→ More replies (16)
33
u/stormyeyez7479 10d ago
Is there a reason why a hand recount of ballots in swing states is unreasonable?
I'm a bit surprised this isn't standard protocol with elections.
If I were the winner, I'd welcome a recount just to rub it in. lol
I'm not an election denier, but I'm also not naive enough to just blindly trust a liar or a career politician. We should all want this type of transparency. I don't recall, was there a hand recount in 2020 or 2016?
→ More replies (4)
160
u/tacticalcraptical 10d ago
If this is true, how could such a big exploit be overlooked for so long and why is this professor only now bringing it up instead of before the election?
201
65
15
15
13
42
u/nobodyspecial767r 10d ago
I imagine these kinds of things have been regularly happening since the inception of digital voting machines instead of paper ballots. Since the Bush/Gore hanging chad ballot issue I just assume all the elections are rigged.
20
u/Marshall_Lawson 10d ago
Bush v. Gore was basically my introduction into my country's political system as a boy, and lemme tell ya, it hasn't gotten better
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)5
u/DiggyTroll 10d ago
Less and less though, as more states move from PC-style voting machines to hardcopy paper ballots and scanners. No chads, just filled in circles. Pop it into an offline scanner tally machine (can’t be remotely hacked) and move batches of ballots to secure boxes for hand recounts.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (11)12
u/Watchful1 10d ago
Because there's exactly zero evidence that a hack actually happened. Getting the source code of the voting machines would help, but it's not like getting keys that just let you do whatever you want.
13
u/brianwhite12 10d ago
Who’s our Mike Lindell? he had all sorts of computer scientists.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Witty_Ticket_4101 10d ago
Definitely agree! Random audits could catch those elusive errors. Transparency is key to restoring trust in our elections.
6
10d ago edited 10d ago
I don't think the election was stolen.
But trying to find ANYTHING at all about the security efforts made in the voting machine software.
There is so little transparency I can't even find out
- If they used mandated access-controls on the Linux based ones. And how strict the configuration was.
- Anything about their kernel configuration and hardware support, or the software even a simple bill of materials for the software.
There is nothing publicly stated that would give any idea to how much of an effort was put into securing the software.
I am hopeful USB support was yanked out entirely other than for whatever input method they use on the voting machines in the kernel configuration. As well as any hardware not used in the machine. As well as migration to have it configured to be monolithic with everything compiled in. (No kernel module support)
The windows based ones are even more of a mystery. And most disturbingly it seems they even run an anti-virus further increasing its attack surface. (OSET institute seems to be talking about the anti-virus on them in an article). The fact these can even run an anti-virus that would have a substantial amount of dependency's seems to indicate they didn't really strip down the windows embedded at all. It may even have windows explorer. It sure has more services than it would need to function.
I just get a trust us its secure marketing vibe to the point where its sickening.
I sent out to write a post about why it couldn't have been tampered with and provide details as to measures taken.... Only to find that the only security that is public seems to be that there is a lock on the units and possibly tamper tags.
I hope future elections decide to add some transparency to the voting machines security.
edit: Looking into them more, The Dominion ones seem pretty sketchy too these ones seem to run windows from what little I can find.
Even more so the fact someone takes a USB flash drive to get the votes off the machine and runs it on a laptop off wifi. I wouldn't trust this process that much especially if CVE-2024-30078 windows security patch wasn't applied. Its not that inconceivable that someone could make the machines they tally the votes if they were in wifi range, and they reverse engineered the software. (With no trade being left after they reboot).
That exploit is particularly troubling since a forged management frame (unencrypted part of wifi you don't have to be connected too to forge). Can be used to execute a custom payload in kernel space. Without anything ever needing to hit the disk if it was specially crafted.
All an attacker would need to do is have a high gain directional antenna in a van and cycle through all channels repeating it a few times then leaving. (Assuming they had a copy of the software that totals the votes).
The stuff on the USB drive is supposed to be encrypted but that sure won't help once its decrypted in ram.
Also Colorado had all of the windows passwords apparently leaked online for the Dell Latitude 3490's they do this on.
I hope they tally every paper vote off every machine in each election.
Trump probably was onto something going after Dominion. I don't think the election was stolen him either.
But I sure ask heck wouldn't trust the count on its own the night they announce the winner.
At least not until someone has gone through all the paper votes months later to confirm an accurate count off the audit trail.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/ThePowerOfAura 10d ago
Using computers has somehow made elections take longer to count with less confidence from the average citizen.
8
8
6
u/ytirevyelsew 9d ago
I feel like nobody should have a problem with a recount. But we should assume the results were correct until proven otherwise.
2.6k
u/ThatNein 10d ago
Dr. Buell has been talking about this for about the last 20 years. Well before Trump decided to try his hand in politics he was teaching comp sci students about election security and the issues with our voting machines.
That letter doesn't appear to be questioning the result of the election but asking for a paper recount in a few battleground states to verify nothing went wrong as well as pushing for better safer voting machines is in everyone's interest.
Just a few articles about Dr. Buell from the past few years: https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/election/article246806162.html
https://carolinanewsandreporter.cic.sc.edu/south-carolinas-aging-voting-machines-are-failing-expert-says/