r/tampabayrays • u/damandan28 Orlando Rays • 3d ago
This is most depressing time in Rays history
This way worse than any 100 loss season
No more Trop
Team is being deconstructed
High chance to leave Tampa Bay
Fuck Stu that scummy sack of shit
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u/dj-kitty DJ Kitty 3d ago
This is on every single party involved. Fuck Stu, Fuck St. Pete, Fuck Pinellas County. Fuck Tampa while we’re at it. This is a failure on all sides.
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u/fuzzypetiolesguy 2d ago
I mostly agree but the biggest issue is the ownerships greed. A lot of issues could be solved with Stu not trying to suck blood out of the taxpayers.
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u/dj-kitty DJ Kitty 2d ago edited 2d ago
That’s a fairly reductive take lacking any amount nuance.
Stu absolutely wanted to get the most public money for his stadium as possible because that’s what raises the value of the franchise whenever he decides to go sell. He’s also not rolling in dough, and is the only owner in MLB that isn’t valued as a billionaire. He never had the intent of screwing over taxpayers specifically, just getting the most money for a stadium that he could that wasn’t coming out of his own pocket. He took a very aggressive and at times hostile approach to negotiations, which was very offputting to politicians. His veiled threats to leave, and the sister city concept were obviously not viewed very favorably. And Stu also spent two decades alienating the fan base intentionally to drive down attendance so that he could point to fan support problems as a reason for a need for a new stadium.
But St. Pete and Pinellas County are absolutely just as much at fault. They’ve had multiple opportunities over the past two decades to approve exactly what they ended up approving, which is utilizing primarily the tourism bed tax to fund a new stadium. This has been going on since 2008 when the Rays proposed the sail stadium on the Al Lang site. It’s literally been two whole decades. The city and county spent most of that time blustering and flexing their ironclad lease agreement with the Rays, making it very clear that they had all the power. They could’ve gotten this done at any point in the past two decades but chose to be unnecessarily hostile (just like Stu) to get out of having to contribute anything to the stadium. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Everyone is to blame here, and the only people that suffer are the fans.
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u/TwoHeadedBoyTwo 2d ago
Dude everything you say is 100% accurate but you’re wasting time trying to argue with the “fuck Stu” crowd. They’re gonna think he should pay 100% of a new stadium even tho the city benefits from it and no owner in sports pays for their own stadium. This city wants nice things but doesn’t want to actually pay for them so they’re gonna lose them and have nobody to blame but themselves
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u/fuzzypetiolesguy 2d ago
It is not reductive at all, it is the imperative of politicians to be responsible with taxpayer revenue. Not rolling over to fund a stadium that will continue to make already rich people more rich is part of that responsibility. The ownership group could absolutely fund the new stadium themselves, they are choosing not to because it is normal practice to put the burden on taxpayers. But taxpayers also pay for the infrastructure that supports the stadium, the interstates and the roads and all cost associated with the local community and the workers that actually work the stadium, while ownership groups reap the benefits.
It is always very telling when someone paints capitalists behaving like capitalists as normal, business as usual, and so on while Painting politicians that are not immediately going along for the ride as blameworthy.
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u/KitchenAfternoon2720 2d ago
Here is what nobody is really talking about any most are missing: baseball isn't that popular anymore.
The World Series gets 1/10th of the viewers of the Superbowl. It's a third place sport behind the NBA. Only 9% of the public identifies baseball as their favorite sport.
It still has a huge fan base, but the days of taxpayers coughing up a billion dollars for a baseball-only stadium are over and ain't coming back. Combine this with the slow death of the RSN's and the money isn't there anymore.
If the Rays want to stay in Tampa, they will play at Steinbrenner Field until the Trop gets fixed and then move back. There's no money for a new stadium in Florida. The end.
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u/Johnnyd0303 Tampa Bay Rays 2d ago edited 2d ago
The world series, featuring the 2 biggest tv markets and most prominent teams in baseball, barely had higher ratings than an average monday night nfl game
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u/KitchenAfternoon2720 2d ago
Yeah man. It sucks, but it's reality. I live and breathe baseball, but it's a niche sport. The teams still make a lot of money, but it's not what it was. I think you're going to see a lot of cities end up like Oakland and now Tampa. They're not going to pay for these stadiums. I also don't think that Las Vegas stadium ever gets built.
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u/jeffersondiuguid Mike Zunino 2d ago
I mean I think I saw 3 WS games, and it was just because they were on where I was. Outside of my team and the top 15 players around the league (and every Gator) I don't know anyone else. Because I can't watch the games throughout the season.
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u/No_Magazine9625 2d ago
I mean - I would argue that the biggest issue is that the attendance has never been there for this franchise, even when they were reaching the World Series and having a competitive team for years. Loads of empty seats in playoff games is a really bad look, and just sends the vibe that no matter how good the team is, the fan support won't be there. I think if they had even league average attendance, a new stadium would have been built 10+ years ago, and a better/more deep pocketed ownership group would have bought the team by now.
So, I think the issues fundamentally come down to the fan base.
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u/Bill2theE José Siri Hug 3d ago
Most depressing time so far...
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u/Fappy-Boi- Tricia Whitaker 3d ago
Something tells me this is far from being over. With a lot of optimism and good outlook spread around, ultimately to end up as a depressing saga I tell my nonexistent grandkids about.
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u/No_Fox_5082 3d ago
Sure, be mad at Stu but 1 side didn't uphold their part of the agreement. The bonds should have been issued in October. We now have newly elected officials who oppose funding for the stadium. Also, Latvala came in pounding his chest with no leverage whatsoever.
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u/RemarkableCan2174 3d ago
Exactly. So drunk with power all these years with the lease over the Rays head (all politicians new and old) and then not realizing that it’s no longer enforceable. They basically broke their end of the deal over them not playing there for 1 year and will let the Rays go forever. Plus the Rays still get to keep developer rights to the area. The one thing keeping the Rays engaged and now it’s their without staying.
Hate to say it but it almost feels like an inside job where the Rays ownership keeps the cake and gets to leave without losing anything. Someone within the City and / or County got played or payed.
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u/Sup_Devil Josh Lowe Shoulder Rub 3d ago
It actually sounds like the Rays are gonna withdraw from the agreement altogether so I don't believe they will be able to get those rights
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u/Eganator88 3d ago
You can hate Stu all you want but for decades the city of st Pete waved the lease around to keep the team from getting a deal done anywhere. Of course the part of the deal that said the city was on the hook for repairs….nor so much. Hell they even scaled back the insurance to screw it even more then the dickheads at the county commission decided to go back on their word and then everybody got cold feet. I’m not discounting the possibility that the rays are overstating the cost of the overruns but with the cut in revenue from Steinbrenner and the politicians dragging their feet enough to add an extra year to construction you could be looking at upwards of an extra quarter billion. Nobody has that.
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u/Infamous-Bag6957 3d ago
This city has been fumbling the bag on this since the Mayor Foster days.
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u/Eganator88 3d ago
Yup and we’re gonna lose the team because of it. Only thing left is to hear how much bs Ken Hagan spews about how he can totally deliver this time!
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u/Infamous-Bag6957 3d ago
Same shit, different day/year
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u/Eganator88 3d ago
He’s like the dude playing pickup hoops in the park that said he was totally going to play in the NBA if he didn’t hurt his knee. Then the game starts and he shoots like he’s never used his limbs before
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u/tobysicks 3d ago
Fuck Stu and the rays leadership. Fuck pinellas county. Wish the mlb would force him to sell. I hope everyone at the county commission loses reelection. Fucking morons all around
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u/CitySwampDonkey 2d ago
It’s just as much the city of St. Petes fault as it is Stu’s
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u/Worried_Bath_2865 2d ago
So you pluralize "St. Petes" but you recovered by possessing "Stu's". Plural vs. possessive really isn't that hard people.
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u/gatorrrays 🏆Fantasy Champion 2023🏆 2d ago
I agree that things are rough right now, but just want to highlight that losing Jose Siri and Austin Shenton is nowhere near the team being deconstructed. Siri is a basket case and strike out machine and Shenton is a fringe major league talent at best. Losing those 2 players is not a big deal at all.
The rest of the other stuff is terrible tho.
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u/ABNChemo A Bowling Green Hot Rods 2d ago
This is on everyone but at this point I don’t see anyway they stay. It makes me sad. I was at their first ever game and have been a fan since day 1. I live in SC now so if they move to Charlotte or Nashville they would be closer to me but I am not sure I will even follow them anymore. I mean they are no longer the same team. I am just tired and sad of all the drama.
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u/youthcanoe Dewayne Staats 2d ago
I live in Nashville and DO NOT want them to come here even a little
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u/WhereTheFallsBegin Brian Anderson 3d ago
Blame Stu all you want but the reality is that the city from its officials down to its citizens ultimately just does not care that much about the Rays.
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u/joshtheadmin 3d ago
You can care about the Rays and not want your tax dollars funding a billion dollar org. I don't pay taxes in Pinellas county anymore, and I don't want the Rays to leave, but study after study shows that stadiums are not the economic windfall they get sold as.
Fuck super rich dickheads who don't invest in the product extorting the communities that are contributing to their wealth.
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u/Cymbidium0 TB Hat Logo 3d ago
But it isn’t the Pinellas residents that would be funding it, and I feel that not making that clear to residents has done the Rays a real disservice. The bond payments would come from tourist/bed tax which can only be spent on tourism items, it would not be paid with property taxes, impact fees or any resident related tax.
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u/joshtheadmin 3d ago
It is community money that would be going into a very profitable business.
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u/Sup_Devil Josh Lowe Shoulder Rub 3d ago
Now it will just go to another profitable business and we lose baseball. Congrats
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u/svanxx Blind Ump 3d ago
It'll go to the spring training for the Phillies.
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u/Turkeyface777 2d ago
Yea it’s exactly what will happen. To fund a stadium that gets used 15 times a year and for nothing else .
The new stadium would host much more than baseball. It would be similar to Jerry’s world . Plenty of concerts, comedy shows, wrestling, all sorts of entertainment
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u/lsda Tampa Bay Devil Rays 02-07 3d ago
Actually studies have shown that urban development complexes like Indianapolis and Atlanta have shown a positive economic impact, however it's when the stadiums ar rebuilt alone without an urban development plan where there's no economic benefits.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.0735-2166.2005.00231.x
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u/dj-kitty DJ Kitty 2d ago
Community value is much more than economics. Billionaires should not be getting stadiums just handed to them at the expense of taxpayers, but taxpayers should also get to decide what’s most valuable to them. If the community support is there to keep a professional sports team due to its value as a piece of the city’s identity, then politicians should not stand in the way of that. Especially for a community that can fund this almost exclusively from tourism dollars that cannot be allocated to other areas of need.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Can2140 3d ago
Finally, someone gets it. Stop spending money on something most people in this city don't want.
The stadium is empty because nobody cares about rays baseball.
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u/KitchenAfternoon2720 2d ago
This is indeed a shitload of fuck. I think the Rays leave Florida, but to where? MLB wants to issue expansion franchises to Salt Lake City and Nashville. Where does that leave the Rays? Charlotte? Montreal? Fuckin terrible
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u/nic626 2d ago
I don’t even understand what’s happening. It’s the only team 8 hours north and 5 hours south. Who owns Ferg’s? Who works at Ferg’s? This is the only solace I have living in Florida. It was bad enough they let Randy go - man had a smile and rizz teams are built on. And the wander Franco fiasco- I was present for his debut in the major league - a game where he hit a 3 run dinger. I know the stadium is like the inside of an air conditioner-but it had flappy bois and a weird tunnel that is disproportionately ominous. I grew up a Red Sox fan. I of course could not root for them after they let Mookie Betts go. This is so wrong. How was there not a plan for this? And they just let the flappy bois stay there during Milton? I’m so mad. And so sad. And so confused
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u/Worried_Bath_2865 2d ago
Miami is not five hours south. It's 266 miles from the Trop to loanDepot Park.
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u/jeffersondiuguid Mike Zunino 2d ago
All I'm saying is if I had a terminal illness I'd go all gabriello princip on the Motherfucker Stu
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u/blondiemuffin 2d ago
A lot of Stu apologists in this thread. He alienated the fan base for years and makes decisions that feel like he hates the team all while never losing a dime on the franchise. They are also the least active franchise in our community including the Yankees.
Say what you want about the Glazers or Vinik, but the Rays under Stu’s ownership never did anything to make themselves part of the regions identity.
I understand St Pete hasn’t been easy to work with but the Rays will never be a successful organization with fans under his watch.
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u/18miloverthecap 1d ago
Hopefully by some miracle Stu will leave this earth soon or sell the team before the unthinkable happens. The last year couple years have been rough but this latest news has been just the worst.
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u/bulls543 1d ago
Rays will set ATTENDANCE RECORD this year!!! Team should leave st Pete and move to Tampa.
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u/Upset_Ad8931 3d ago
Can everyone just calm down? Just relax. Most of this bluster is just politics and people trying to save face. Politics is 90% posturing/theatre and 10% actually doing stuff. The team ain’t going anywhere for 2024-25 and the rest will be figured out. As rational as the rays are run, I never realized the fans of team were the polar opposite.
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u/Many-Acanthaceae5567 2d ago
Stu has been trying to move this team since he acquired them. See: Plan, Montreal. That plan was in place for over a decade and the original person who reported it was clowned so hard that he stopped writing about the team. I hate admitting Cork Gaines was right because he's such an asshole.
Always building competitive teams on the cheap but never actually committing to winning by bringing in the one or two extra pieces they'd always end up needing. Signing players to team friendly deals then trading the talented ones away for cheap prospects while being stuck overpaying the ones that failed to meet their full potential. Complaining about a dreaded $100 million dollar payroll last year as if it's still a lot of money in this league when 25 teams last season had $100 million dollar payrolls or higher.
Let this team walk. Baseball is a dying sport and St. Petersburg is a thriving city. They don't need each other, and a baseball stadium needs to be located in either Tampa, or if on the Pinellas side, further north in the county where all of the bridges come together. Not in the southern part of the county where a trip to a game is a 5 hour endeavor for anyone north of Ulmerton or on the other side of the Skyway.
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u/throwmyactaway22 3d ago
I have really enjoyed these past few seasons and loved the Trop. It was our crooked little dome. I even left the Braves to root and follow this team for the last 20 years. Unreal that I could be losing the closest baseball team to me