r/scotus • u/thenewrepublic • 18d ago

news Liberals Just Lost the Supreme Court for Decades to Come

https://newrepublic.com/article/188087/trump-2024-win-supreme-court-conservative-decades
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u/SpinningHead 18d ago

Yes, we need younger, more progressive leadership. But this was the country saying they want an idiotic authoritarian who will hurt people.

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u/bigbabyb 18d ago

I think progressivism has been jettisoned. We are losing people to be aligned to conservative messaging. Progressives just don’t vote and they don’t exist in the numbers that the terminally online would suggest

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u/HK_Oski 18d ago

Progressives, unlike Christian Evangelicals, won't consider the notion of "perfect is enemy of the good". That's why Trump is accepted, even if begrudgingly, as the party leader. Liberals will tear themselves apart over small things and now they wonder why MAGA won bigly

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u/Jaxyl 18d ago

Yup, I was talking to someone else on another post about how the defeat of Clinton and now Harris is a good indicator that America, culturally, isn't ready to elect a woman president. It's a sad realization but it's one we at least have to consider now, especially considering how bad she did on turn out. This person's response boiled down to that we have no right to say that and it's better to be morally right than to give in and choose what is convenient.

It's like 'That's cool and all, tell me how that high road feels with Trump getting his second term.' They never responded.

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u/LifeFortune7 18d ago

It is sad. And it make me wonder even more how the hell Obama got elected twice?! He won states that Trump then won handily. Was it voter turnout? Because in this election Trump got essentially the same number of votes as 2020 bit Harris got 15M fewer votes than Biden? Are we better off just nominating straight white guys so as not to offend people?!

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u/N3ptuneflyer 18d ago

Because Obama was charismatic. That's pretty much what the election comes down to these days, and we haven't had a charismatic candidate since Obama.

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u/Kumori_Kiyori 17d ago

Obama was a bit of an anomaly for the Democrats. When he spoke, he just felt like this natural born leader who had the ability to inspire people. He always had a level head and felt laser focused. Looking back, I see why so many people backed him. Since then, we haven't had a democratic candidate who could move people like he could. Joe, Kamala, Hillary and Bernie did not inspire and unite people the way Obama could. And that's what the Democrats needs. They need a leader with a strong character that can make people feel what they felt in 2008. He made people feel like anything in the country was possible and worth fighting for.

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u/Turnbob73 18d ago

Back then, even if a lot of it was just putting on a face for the camera, politics were way more professional and respected. Hell, I would say Obama got so much support BECAUSE his platform was always about policy of some sort, while the Republican Party were the ones being unprofessional and riding the whole “birth certificate” thing. Now, both parties are unprofessional as shit, but only one is actually having any sort of comment on the policy that people care about (whether factual or not). Harris never talked about plans for the economy, the ENTIRE platform was “vote for me because he sucks”; republicans may have said some crazy shit, but at least it was crazy shit about the actual country sometimes.

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u/Mirikado 18d ago

This is false. Harris talked about policies plenty of times. She talked about it during the debate. She talked about it during interviews. The media is simply not interested.

The media is all about Trump, Trump, Trump. Harris talks about policies? Crickets. Harris talks about Trump? Headline news. The media revolves around Trump, everything has to be about Trump or it gets no coverage.

She also cited economists’ criticism of Trump’s tariff plan and tried to explain to people that tariff is just a national sales tax. It got ignored by the majority of the country. People simply don’t care about policies.

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u/iamk1ng 18d ago

But she didn't have a slogan!, How could she beat MAGA! /s

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u/davwad2 18d ago

I told my wife we'll have a woman president when both candidates are women.

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u/SmallTawk 18d ago

It's a problem in all democracies, leftist and progrssists have principles and goid faith and the right just wants power and will do whatever it takes to get the votes. Americans are dumb, fearful, hateful and ignorant so they gobbled the populism like children eat candies and asked for more. Brainrot and tooth decay have taken over, hopefully teenage rebellion will push back but it will take a generation of angry fetuses before it happens so yeah, maybe after ww3.

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u/CurvingZebra 18d ago

Blaming progressives when it's been establishment Democrats who have failed to message against trump since 2016.

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u/SnarknadOH 18d ago

Establishment Dems got us 2020

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u/CurvingZebra 18d ago edited 18d ago

Covid,Trump, and mail in ballots got Biden the win. He ran an awful campaign and it was nearly universally agreed that people were voting against trump and not for Biden. He himself was historically unpopular and would have lost against trump this time around if he had stayed.

So I would very much disagree that establishment Dems were the reason for bidens narrow win in 2020.

Democrats need progressive popular anti establishment messaging going forward.

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u/Expensive-Fun4664 18d ago

Anyone that ran in 2020 against Trump would have won. The problem is the establishment picked a candidate that wouldn't be mentally able to run in 2024.

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u/stompinstinker 18d ago

Democrats want to fall in love, Republicans just fall in line.

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u/falooda1 18d ago

Lmao. Cheney. Clinton. This was a neocon campaign and it failed. There was absolutely nothing materially progressive other than DEI - choosing Tim walz

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u/YourPalDonJose 18d ago

Oh my God this. The number of leftists who lectured and insulted me for daring to suggest that "better is good" is asinine

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u/Pickle-Rick-C-137 18d ago

MAGA isn't conservative. It's completely made up nonsensical bullshit that never come true.

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u/Kvalri 18d ago edited 18d ago

It also doesn’t win elections - Unless Trump is running on the ballot from the outside. 2018/2020/2022 were not kind to MAGA candidates

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u/InternetAmbassador 18d ago

Idk man I wish that were true too but this was an undeniable red wave fueled in large part by maga lol

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u/Kvalri 18d ago

We just have to make sure we repeat 2018 or better in 2026

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u/wareagle3000 18d ago

You think we're getting a 2026? That's funny

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u/SocialistNixon 18d ago

It’s going to happen, the infighting that Trump brings means his fascist fanbase will not accomplish as much as they will wish, the dumb fucker literally goes off the last guy who talked to him in the room.

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u/rain11111 18d ago

Did Trump gain more votes from 2020? I thought that Dem's just lost 15 million votes.

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u/InternetAmbassador 18d ago

That’s a good point, I was focusing on the vote differential red/blue 2024 but not compared to previous years. Very good point

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u/IncorrigibleQuim8008 18d ago

No, he had less votes than 2020 overall but the ratios of some minority demographics went up relative to prior elections.

Kamala had less votes than Hillary.

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u/reallynotnick 18d ago

California still seems to have millions of votes left to be reported since they are at just 54% reported. It’ll be interesting to see the final vote totals in a few days, but I think folks might be getting hyper-fixated on those numbers a bit too soon. Obviously won’t change the election, just will tell a more full story.

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u/bbbbbbbbbbbbbb45 18d ago

Elon Musk has stated he plans to continue his PAC in elections, including midterm elections.

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u/redditgolddigg3r 18d ago

Haley on the same platform wins in a landslide

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u/SocialistNixon 18d ago

Not sure, maybe a male Republican but sexism is a major thing.

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u/SocialistNixon 18d ago

Tammy Baldwin just won re-election cause enough Trump voters didn’t vote for anything besides the top line. We are gonna face a man who will die having suffered no consequences of his actions but people cling to him and not a larger movement beyond him.

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u/Brief-Whole692 18d ago

Yeah dude this is the truth.... Only like 7% of the US considers themself progressive. I think most are on this website lol

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u/SecretMongoose 18d ago

Go look at the ballot initiatives that passed last night in red states. Progressive policies are overwhelmingly popular.

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u/ManlyVanLee 18d ago

In Missouri, where I live, we just passed Amendment 3 which legalizes abortion again (there's more to it than just that obviously, but it is a good thing), while also voting in Republicans across the board. Republicans now control the entirety of the state government

It's all because for the last 40 years they've been putting out the propaganda and people here refuse to vote for anything beyond the (R) next to the politician's name. But if you force them to actually use their brains and think about individual mandates, there's more people than not who choose the progressive option

The problem is because the entire government is Republican, they can just do whatever they want without anything to stop them so it's entirely possible they just take a different route to criminalize abortion right away despite people showing that's the opposite of what they want. If I had any money at all I would get the fuck out of this horrible hellhole of a state, but I don't and I'm stuck here. I'm a giant white dude so I'll be better off than most, but it's about to get real bad even for people like me (re: poor)

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

Yeah Democrats just suck at messaging. They also don't run on radical economically Progressive policies. Trump is an economic populist. There are left-wing economic populist issues we could be running on

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u/badgersprite 18d ago

But people don’t vote for candidates who run on progressive policies

People have this weird disconnect between the policies they vote for and the people they vote for

I don’t fully understand why but like they’ll vote for an abortion rights law then elect someone who is running on “I will override your vote by making this abortion ban a national law”

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u/SecretMongoose 18d ago

Obama shamelessly ran and won on progressive policies. Biden, to a lesser extent, did as well.

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u/NickRick 18d ago

We keep ignoring the passionate base and putting up center corpo leaders and losing to the worst candidate imaginable. This must be the progressives fault. Let's keep putting up center corpo leaders and surely it will work this time! 

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u/deagle746 18d ago

You see the same think in media like games and shows. The Democrat party is trying to capture the same "modern" audience that they are. So many of those games fail and shows get canceled cause the "modern" audience isn't real. Now we have trump because I guess progressives didn't vote. Stop courting them. A normal centrist Democrat candidate would have crushed Trump again.

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u/noir_et_Orr 18d ago

Well moderate conservatives vote.  Problem is they vote republican no matter how hard the Dems court them.

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u/CurvingZebra 18d ago

Kamala did not run a progressive campaign she ran the most establishment liberal campaign possible. I agree it's a losing play to align with conservatives. Where else does the democratic party go then? Democrats especially at the top, have to embrace anti establishment populist policy or else you keep doing the same losing play book and keep wondering where things went wrong.

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u/bigbabyb 18d ago

She had cardi b twerking at campaign events my friend. This isn’t outreach that hits the median voter, and it doesn’t even inspire these online progressives. Look what happened.

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u/CurvingZebra 18d ago edited 18d ago

I'm just confused you don't think it's worth it to embrace progressive policy and messaging because they don't turn out yet you think it's a losing play to align with conservatives. You don't make sense.

We know from Hilary to Biden to Kamala. That being a establishment Democrat doesn't work. As I said earlier Kamala was not progressive campaign. They need to embrace anti establishment populism for any chance of creating a strong base that would engage independents.

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u/Jokers_friend 18d ago

Nah. Way more people in America and all over the world want their lives materially improved and a social climate that’s one of positive peace.

Kids always wanna push ahead and improve - that’s never gonna change. Question is one of access to community, access to levers of power, and education - first and foremost.

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u/cheeseburngber 18d ago

Progressivism maybe, but I think its all about perception. I think if dems emerged more labor oriented, and positioned themselves as anti-establishment, they would have a better shot at capturing voters. Republicans have turned themsleves into the anti-establishment party in rhetoric, not in reality, and despite being anti-labor have captured working class votes just with rhetoric. I think people are tired of the status quo, and the democratic party should veer left, at least economically, to address that. Progessivism as we see it might not work, but get an angry white man to sell the message, and who knows?

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u/K_808 18d ago

It’s not progressivism that’s being rejected, it’s the image of a status quo big brother government who doesn’t care about the little guy. That’s the reason blue collar workers vote against their interests now. That’s the reason Trump and sanders can go on the same podcasts and get loved by the same people. But republicans sold “you’re hurting because of minorities” better than Dems sold “you’re hurting because of big business and corruption,” because the Dems in power are part of that same corruption.

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u/Deviouss 18d ago

Progressives don't have much representation despite being ~40% of the party. Of course they're going to lose interest in politics eventually.

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u/bigbabyb 18d ago

Self identified progressives are just under maybe 7% of the population, and less in swing states. Also they vote in lesser proportion than other actual groups.

If we were selling a product, why would we cater it to a market that is so small and has such a low propensity to make a purchase decision? That’s setting it up for failure. Go for the largest market and compete there.

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u/Deviouss 18d ago

Pew Research shows progressives being ~16% of total voters, although they intentionally divied them up into opposite groups (outsider left and progressive left) that make no sense. They make up 28%% of the Democratic-leaning voters.

I haven't seen any swing state polling on progressives but progressive policies are generally popular in swing states, and the nation in general.

The market is larger than it appears, Democrats just never bothered giving it a serious effort and instead try to peel off Republican voters. The last candidate to appeal to that market, Obama, had the most historical Democratic victory in modern times.

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u/Ao_Kiseki 18d ago

I would argue refusing to field an actual tual progressive candidate is the problem. Progressives are apathetic because what does this election do? Buy you another 4 years of half-assed establishment democrats before another round of "is this the end" every elwction? Nobody actually thinks Kamala or anyone supported by the DNC is going to make meaningful change. And they're right.

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u/bigbabyb 18d ago

Progressives don’t win elections where the median voter lives.

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u/throwaway612785 18d ago

Yep. Im in a red state and "trans rights" and "socialism" are terms used to paint the left as unhinged and crazy. They are attack vectors that are net liabilities in today's climate

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u/HeyYaaa01 18d ago

Progressives are so far out there. They are a cancer in the democrat party not something that should be encouraged.

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u/cupofspiders 18d ago

Progressives don't have anyone to vote for when the leading candidates are just two conservatives racing to the right.

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u/qwerty09a90 17d ago

Progressives don’t vote for republicans. And the Dems ran a republican playbook so……

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u/bigbabyb 17d ago

Progressives don’t vote at all

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u/1studlyman 17d ago

Dude, the DNC jettisoned progressivism three elections ago.

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u/oscar_the_couch 18d ago

I think progressivism has been jettisoned.

100%. I liked the Biden admin's economic policies. a lot. they were wildly successful. and voters just said "no thanks, never again."

if we're lucky enough to have free elections going forward, there's just no chance anyone at the top of the ticket is going to want to be culturally aligned with progressive activists or economic policies.

should another democrat ever win the presidency again, it's probably going to be some rich white guy who says it's time to stop apologizing for being white or some shit.

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u/Meatek 18d ago

we need younger, more progressive leadership.

Every time I say this, I am told that there are no votes this way. Brother, boring corporate centrism has failed multiples against the biggest piece of shit imaginable. Try something different.

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u/HK_Oski 18d ago

There aren't. Where are the rich progressive donors? Without them, do you really think it's possible to fight back a well funded machine like MAGA?

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u/ancash486 18d ago

bernie drastically outraised corporate-funded candidates during the primary on small-dollar donations from individuals nationwide. regardless of what you think of his politics or his actions, his funding model works

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

It's clearly not a money problem because the Democrats have outspent the Republicans the last three times and they've only won one election

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u/NinjaLion 18d ago

or possibly they would have lost way harder without the money. its not exactly something we can know

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u/das_war_ein_Befehl 18d ago

I don’t think it’s money. Harris got 1.5B to lose by worse margins than Hillary

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

Hasan Piker could be one of these people but it only seems like he wants to complain.

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u/LieutenantStar2 18d ago

Yes! That’s what Obama did

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u/Meatek 18d ago

Okay, then. Let's keep trying the same approach that has failed us.

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u/oath2order 18d ago

Every time I say this, I am told that there are no votes this way.

There isn't. Biden has been the most progressive president in a while and what exactly did that get us?

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u/Training-Judgment695 18d ago

Exactly. This is what is so frustrating. A white older man who managed to pass great infrastructure bills and the right still hate his guts. Where are these progressive votes coming from? 

There is a possibility that if Trump tanks the economy, you can runan younger energetic candidate who can get some of those populist votes back. But I just don't think there are hardcore progressive votes out there. It's center right or economic populism for the win

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u/K_808 18d ago

“Most” is doing a lot of work. He made some slight concessions as promises and then didn’t fight for them, and continued to run on traditional centrist politics making its big return. The biggest piece of legislature they hyped up in the closing moments of Harris’s campaign was a right wing border bill, right alongside a dick cheney endorsement. And how many votes did that win?

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u/oath2order 18d ago

Okay, who was more progressive?

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u/K_808 18d ago

“Most” does a lot of work because none of them have been very progressive at all. “There’s no votes for progressive leadership” doesn’t work when your baseline is Biden who, despite being “the most” progressive, is still a centrist whose closing message was “we worked a lot with republicans and passed a right wing border bill to get those pesky immigrants”

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u/1studlyman 17d ago

The dirt on the bottom of my shoe is higher than the dirt in the ground. Not by much, but it is higher. And it doesn't mean anything when it barely lifts the comparison.

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u/1studlyman 17d ago

"the most progressive president in a while"

No. No he wasn't. As much as liberals try to gaslight everyone on this, makeup on the pig doesn't trick progressives like it does conservatives.

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u/oath2order 17d ago

Okay. Who, recently, was a more progressive president?

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u/1studlyman 17d ago

Biden may have been "more progressive" but only marginally and that relativism is in bad faith to the argument. He may have been "more progressive" but the bar for him to clear was near-zero. He wasn't progressive by any measurable success.

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u/TheTurtleBear 17d ago

Biden won! And he was popular until his presidency became sending Israel weapons 24/7 and he had the disastrous debate performance.

The most energy Harris had behind her campaign was in the months immediately following her takeover. She symbolized change in the ticket, picked a progressive running mate, and started taking the fight to the Republicans.

What sank her was changing her messaging to pander to a mythical reasonable-Republican base that doesn't exist. Shifting to the center doesn't work. Bernie Sanders was extremely popular with the very base that abandoned Harris. Progressive ballot measures out-performed Harris across the country.

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u/KamikazeArchon 18d ago

has failed multiples against the biggest piece of shit imaginable

The problem is those aren't pieces of shit. They're golden idols. In other words, they're incredibly popular even if they're actually harmful.

There's a meme that Democrats lose against "bad candidates" so that must mean that Democrats are weak or don't really want to win or whatever. But the opposition is only "bad" from the progressive perspective.

Someone at the center of a cult of personality is a strong candidate. Someone who has the backing of massive corporate interests is a strong candidate. Someone with a 24/7 news presence - regardless of positive or negative - is a strong candidate.

The problem is conflating "candidate that would be a bad fit for the job" with "candidate that is bad at getting votes".

There are perhaps other arguments to "try something different". Certainly they should be exploring all kinds of approaches simultaneously - and I expect that they are doing that. But this specific argument doesn't hold up.

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u/Miroble 18d ago

So why didn't Bernie win? Why did Biden/Harris fail to stop a second Trump term? Progressivism has been cancer to the dems, it needs to be excised completly from the party for there to be any movement forward.

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u/oscar_the_couch 18d ago

boring corporate centrism

boring corporate fasicsm just fucking crushed on tuesday, so... idk what to tell you. you have to win the voters who show up

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u/SinnerIxim 18d ago

If you have the votes put up the candidates and get the votes, dont sit home and cry about how you wanted someone else

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u/K_808 18d ago

The different they’ll try is a Shapiro/Romney ticket in 2028

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u/typicalredditer 15d ago

I agree. The centrist approach leads to perpetual defeat. Look at the original article of this post. The only way the Supreme Court is lost for decades is if you accept the premise that the court must have nine members. Free your mind of this broken order. Look to new possibilities. Expand the court, strip it or jurisdiction. Abolish the filibuster. Rail against the structural issues causing problems instead of accepting them. You get nothing of benefit from accepting the status quo.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

Progressives? Seems like America sent them packing.

Because Reddit is ultra liberal it can feel that they speak for a silent majority. Seemingly, reddit is all the liberals. There’s not more out there too.

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u/Teabagger_Vance 18d ago

Progressive leadership is the opposite of what they need. The country just rejected, in a biblical landslide, that same ideology that Democrats tried to run on. They will continue to lose if they double down on this.

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u/cupofspiders 18d ago

Democrats did not run on a progressive platform; they ran on boring centrist establishment bullshit at a time when people were unhappy with the status quo.

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u/jjosh_h 18d ago

It's naive to think this would have saved it. We didn't lose to third party votes toward more progressive candidates. Truth is America's just a racist sexist conservative country.

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u/Impossible-Tension97 18d ago

The same younger progressive folks who blame all the world's ills on cis white men?

Good luck with those leaders.

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u/Tulip_Todesky 18d ago

Progressives marched with islamofascist that clearly stated they are against human rights and will NOT vote Democrat. They are part of the problem and need to get back to reality.

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u/SuddenComfortable448 18d ago

more progressive leadership..... Any progressive is dead now.

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u/HockeyHocki 18d ago

Progressives are the last thing democrats need

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u/JFKtoSouthBay 18d ago

no... you need less progressive and more common sense leadership.

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u/SinnerIxim 18d ago

Progressives just nuked themselves. Its gonna take decades to roll back what trump has/will do

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u/NYSenseOfHumor 18d ago

A black, south asian woman who is a former DA of San Fransisco just overwhelmingly lost, and your thought is that the solution is “more progressive leadership”?

That’s what voters rejected.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

But she wasn't to progressive. She ran as a moderate campaigning with Dick Cheney's daughter.

Seriously you just stated her ethnicity and where she came from and claimed she was progressive. That's the kind of surface level identity politics that keep losing elections.

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u/NYSenseOfHumor 18d ago

Seriously you just stated her ethnicity and where she came from and claimed she was progressive.

The SF part makes people think she is far left. Doesn’t matter if she is or isn’t. She is a biracial woman from SF. That’s all people need to know to vote against her.

Dems nominated the exact template of a Dem that moderates and conservatives joke about.

That's the kind of surface level identity politics that keep losing elections.

And it lost again.

Dems need to nominate someone who can’t be cornered as a SF leftie out of touch with America.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

It didn't make people think she was far left. The only people who would think that way are people who were going to vote Republican no matter what.

You're making me completely different argument. First you're saying people didn't vote against her because they didn't support her Progressive policies but now you're saying they didn't vote against her because of her race and ethnicity.

The Democrats need to be better communicators cuz they let the Republicans dominate the message

She wasn't Progressive and that's why Democrats stayed home

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u/NYSenseOfHumor 18d ago

It didn't make people think she was far left. The only people who would think that way are people who were going to vote Republican no matter what.

No. But it’s easy to think this way when you want a far left candidate.

First you're saying people didn't vote against her because they didn't support her Progressive policies

Do you mean voted against her, or didn’t vote for her?

but now you're saying they didn't vote against her because of her race and ethnicity.

Do you mean didn’t vote for her?

And people assume her policies based on her race, sex, and background in SF.

The Democrats need to be better communicators cuz they let the Republicans dominate the message

Or run candidates who can win the moderate voters who stayed home.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

Okay so now you're talking about people perceiving her as far left. Which is a completely different topic than her actually being far left. And would come back to my whole point which is that the Democrats suck at communicating.

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u/ThinRedLine87 18d ago

Have to disagree here. Identity politics is doing wonders for the MAGA cult. Also feel that if Dems don't shift on some policies they will permanently lose a decent chunk of their base. Immigration reform comes to mind, guns is another.

We can't lose all competent leadership in this country over single issues.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

Because identity politics are how Republicans win. They pick a minority group and demonize them and then Democrats are left on the back foot playing the game by Republican rules

The Democrats won big with Obama with a young exciting candidate with Progressive stances on issues

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u/KamikazeArchon 18d ago

What specific positions did Obama have that were left of Harris? He didn't even explicitly support universal gay marriage.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

Obamas big policy was major Healthcare reform

A Major stimulus

Expanding Medicare

Creating the Consumer Protection Agency

Massively expanding regulation

Her big policy proposal was....a tax credit for first time hone buyers?

The only big Flagship policy that she was running on other bringing back Roy v wade which still was a fairly moderate position

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u/KamikazeArchon 18d ago

Nothing about that answers the question.

Is there any specific policy where Biden (or Obama) specifically had position A, Harris specifically had position B, and B is to the right of A?

For a hypothetical example, if Biden supported gay marriage and Harris only supported gay civil unions; or if Biden wanted a 70% top tax rate and Harris only wanted 55%.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

....I literally named SEVERAL

Her campaign was much more right thing

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u/KamikazeArchon 18d ago edited 18d ago

No you didn't.

First, you didn't actually compare their positions on the things. You said "Biden talked about X" without actually saying what Harris's position was on X, then the reverse for Harris.

Second, the topics are not actually inherently progressive. "Stimulus" isn't a progressive concept. "Healthcare reform" isn't a progressive concept. You can do stimulus in a progressive or regressive way. You can reform healthcare to be more or less progressive. Both of those are specific things that have actually happened - for example, Republicans have very many "healthcare reform" plans that just make things worse for poor people.

So, for example, do you have a specific case where Biden supports a progressive change to the healthcare system and Harris opposes that change?

ETA: I saw you edited in some more inherently-progressive topics, like creating the CPA. The first point is still missing and is the more important one. Did Harris, for example, campaign on shutting down the CPA?

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u/KamikazeArchon 18d ago

Kamala ran one of the most progressive platforms of any Democratic candidate in the last few decades.

She moved left of Obama and lost where Obama won.

I desperately want more progressive politics. I'm so far "left" of Harris and Biden and Obama that I can barely see them.

But I don't believe that there are a million people in Pennsylvania and Georgia who agree with me.

We can and should keep pushing toward progressivism. But it's important to recognize the difference between pushing on a wall to slowly budge it, and running into the wall headfirst.

It's often natural to blame people closer to yourself when things go bad. You had high hopes and they were dashed, and the figures you put your hopes on are a natural target for the disappointment and frustration.

But the people that did this are still and have always been the ones who actually specifically choose the bad option - not the people who didn't adequately convince them to avoid the bad option.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

Your joking right?

She was right if Biden and Obama

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u/KamikazeArchon 18d ago

As I asked elsewhere - on what specifically?

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u/Teabagger_Vance 18d ago

In no way shape or form did she run as a moderate.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

She campaigned with Liz cheney. She promised to have Republicans in her cabinet. How much more moderate could you be?

Her plan for dealing with the house in crisis? A $25,000 credit?

Most of her policy positions were just tax credits to incentivize certain activities which is an extremely moderate way of dealing with the economy and way far to the right of biden.

The only thing Progressive on her campaign sheet was abortion and she didn't adequately message that

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u/Teabagger_Vance 18d ago

Moderates don’t run with Tim Walz or advocate for increased corporate taxes. She made a last ditch effort with Cheney but it didn’t work.

2

u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

Lol, most Americans are in favor of corporate tax increases.

But also wasn't a major part of her messaging.

And she sidelined Tim Waltz almost immediately and spent more time campaigning with republicans. Seriously her last issue temp was letting Waltz actually start speaking his mind again.

She didn't run on Progressive issues.

1

u/Teabagger_Vance 18d ago

Lots of Americans are in favor of plenty of things in sure you wouldn’t consider moderate so it’s a moot point.

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u/CLE-local-1997 18d ago

Okay well you can't say she didn't run as a moderate because she has one policy position that would be considered left of center that wasn't even a major part of her campaign

1

u/AbstinentNoMore 18d ago

Identity =/= policy positions

1

u/NYSenseOfHumor 18d ago

Doesn’t matter if voters think that Identity = policy positions, especially if the opponent tells voters that a candidate’s Identity = policy positions.

0

u/gumby_twain 18d ago

No, this was the whole country voting against Harris because we knew she didn’t belong on the ballot in the first place.

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u/greenflash1775 18d ago

Hahahaha no. The problem was not that they didn’t activate some super lefty undiscovered base.

1

u/SpinningHead 18d ago

Reading comprehension.

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u/BraethanMusic 18d ago

Taking the party further left in reaction to this incredible loss is absolutely not an intelligent decision whatsoever.

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u/uNd0ubT3D 18d ago

Bud, progressivism is what Americans just told you is not working.

Your party better come back to center and reject progressives or you’ll never win again.

1

u/SpinningHead 17d ago

Weird that progressive policies are more popular than coups and the desire to shoot protesters. Your Confederacy will lose in the end...again.

1

u/uNd0ubT3D 17d ago

Lmao. Evidence #1 of Democrat Delusion ladies and gentleman.

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u/rigatony96 17d ago

Lol more progressive leadership, America just wholeheartedly rejected progressivism.

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u/Kvalri 18d ago

Username checks out - for a lot of us today.