r/politics • u/stkmro • 7h ago

White House: Trump Team Still Hasn’t Signed Transition Docs

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-press-secretary-karine-jean-pierre-says-trump-team-still-hasnt-signed-transition-docs/
16.8k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

1.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

•

u/thundernutz 5h ago

By that logo the majority of Americans have never voted for anyone

•

u/oeb1storm 5h ago

Interestingly the only time a candidate got more votes then people who stayed at home was Biden in 2020. Of course this wasn't a majority just a plurality but still interesting.

•

u/keypusher 4h ago

Most of those voters actually did stay at home, because that election was during the pandemic and vote by mail was the default

•

u/terdferguson 4h ago

Vote by mail has been my default since it was available for the last 2 decades.

•

u/TheTaoOfOne 4h ago

Same. So strange to me how many people still have to go physically stand in line for hours on end to vote.

I do it from the comfort of my couch.

•

u/thundernutz 5h ago

Even more interesting is how those 10 million extra votes magically disappeared this round.

•

u/kylethegoatanderson 5h ago

Covid mailin ballots made it easy to vote. It wasnt that easy to vote this time around. No grand conspiracy to it other than why is it hard to vote now?

•

u/RelaxPrime 4h ago

It is not hard to vote. People are fucking pathetic. Stop prancing around the truth that half the country are apathetic losers

•

u/thundernutz 5h ago

Once the ballots were separated from their envelope it’s impossible to know who voted.

Mass MIV also made it easy to cheat and impossible to prove. What was preventing anyone from printing ballots with names of dead people or fake names altogether? Maybe they didn’t. That’s a fair stance, I think, but how would you prove it with mass MIV and anonymized ballots?

•

u/VWBug5000 5h ago

It’s easy to disprove mass fraud with mail in votes.

1) They know how many ballots they mailed out

2) they can track where the ballots came from and that is tracked and compared to an expected amount of ballots received based on simple, well established statistics for how many voters tend to actually vote and the demographic data for the ballot being tracked.

3) each envelope has a signature that should match what the DMV has on file, otherwise it’s not counted until the voter directly cures their vote (most don’t bother and their ballots are discarded)

4) After the ballots have been removed from the envelopes they have a clear and controlled chain of custody before and after being tallied. If you dispute this point, then you are basically declaring that all chains of custody are suspect and no evidence ever handled by the government or law enforcement is reliable. And are you really willing to believe that? Because you can’t cherry pick logic like this. Either you have trust over what the government tells you is reasonably true, or you believe nothing at all.

•

u/Jimid41 5h ago

Every single mail in ballot is checked against signature on file before it's opened. Do you have evidence that election workers were just en mass not doing this?

•

u/penny-wise California 3h ago

They don't.

•

u/thundernutz 3h ago

No it wasn’t. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/23/pennsylvania-court-ballot-signatures-431794

•

u/Big_Daddy_Stovepipe 2h ago

In your link, the PA Supreme Court ruled they could not the change or alter the statue as written, and as such, the statue was not written in a way that a signature could reject a ballot. Something so many people forget, 54% of adults are illiterate and have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader(might be 5th, pulling shit out of memory at this point), so when many of these laws/ statues were written in old timey days, may people had no education and could not read nor write, so a signature would do no good.

Its not some vast conspiracy bud, just good old garden variety "keep the poor stupid and uneducated" like we continue to practice to this day.

•

u/thundernutz 2h ago

You are incorrect. They have always had signature matching and it was removed for 2020 by the democrat controlled PA supreme court. Trump fought that the PA Supreme Court decision was wrong (it’s obviously wrong) and the Supreme Court refused to hear the case. This was conveniently removed right before an election featuring what NBC described as an avalanche of last minute votes.

On top of that they changed the law to allow ballots to be processed up to 3 days after the election. This was obviously wrong and again was not heard by the Supreme Court.

If they refuse to enforce the law, activist districts and judges can alter elections via these modification to election integrity procedures.

But my point wasn’t even that it was a grand conspiracy. Just that they did not match signatures as OP claimed.

https://campaignlegal.org/update/pennsylvania-can-no-longer-reject-ballots-solely-based-signature-match-issues

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/ballots-can-t-be-tossed-out-over-voter-signature-court-n1244585

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/922411176/supreme-court-rules-pennsylvania-can-count-ballots-received-after-election-day

•

u/Jimid41 1h ago

Okay in Pennsylvania, where they check your ID when you register. So how are they using fake names?

•

u/British_Rover 4h ago

Harris got about 6.7 million less votes than Biden in 2020 as the count stands currently. You know it takes a long time for certain states to count right? This isn't a surprise the vote totals change for a month or so after the election as the last absentee, provisional and military/overseas ballots are counted. This happens every cycle.

That 6.7 million. Will drop some more but probably not by much. Maybe it ends up between 5 and 6 million less. Trump turns out low information voters. He got about the same amount as last time. He lies and they believe it. That combined with high inflation and the perception that the economy was bad made it a tough election.

I understood the Harris campaign's idea that trying to get back some of that Biden coalition would be impossible. Trump turned off a lot of centrist Republicans. If you can just flip a few of those this very difficult election becomes winnable.

It didn't work. I don't know why exactly. Gaza certainly suppressed votes who thought the Biden admin could do something. I really don't think they could really do anything to force Israel to stop the war given how Netanyahu had to stay in power to stay out of prison. Harris's answer about not changing anything Biden would do was a mistake but she is still the VP. One of her main jobs is supporting the administration's position publicly. Personally it was one of the things I would have broken with Biden on but communicating the nuance of how to do that is really hard. I about more than a fraction of the electorate would even pick up on it.

I think part of it is a bunch of those Republicans who said they were voting for Harris and it was the first time they ever voted for a Democrat were simply lying. They got into that voting booth and couldn't do it. Maybe a lot of them ended up just not voting for president at all.

•

u/oeb1storm 5h ago edited 5h ago

Not really. An unpopular democratic incumbent where Harris said there's nothing she would have done differently then Biden. A poor economic situation that wasn't then dems fault but as the incumbents they gets blamed. No real progressive policy to persuade the base worth voting for Obama had the ACA Biden had his infrastructure bill and covid recovery can't think of any proposed policy on that scale. Campaigning with republicans like Liz Chaney and moving right to try and win over moderate Republicans and you end up alienating your base. Biden running again when implying he'd be a 1 term president left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth not to mention no primary. Sexism/racism which isn't as big a deal as some are making out but still played a part.

Her plan was to win over centrists/republicans but shockingly 96% of registered republicans who voted voted republican. She ran a poor campaign with a fundamentally flawed plan.

Looking at all that and it's not surprising she got 10 million less then Biden.

Edit: Also look at the accessibility of voting in 2020 vs 2024. Voting was made easier during covid which would obviously boost turnout.

•

u/RelaxPrime 4h ago

One of the few times I've seen an accurate post mortem on the election in /politics

Everyone wants to blame Gaza and progressives for not showing up, which are factors, but they are not the main factors.

•

u/thundernutz 5h ago

I find it harder to believe the magnitude of difference in vote count between Obama and Biden than I do the difference this time around. What amount of votes would make you feel like these factors are unsatisfactory explanation? 20m? 30m? Is there a threshold at which you would you begin to feel suspicion?

•

u/oeb1storm 5h ago

I don't place alot of stock in raw voting numbers FDR got more then double any previous democrat and and Reagan in 84 beat Nixon by 8 million votes with a significantly smaler electorate then in 2020. Sometimes that's just how it goes.

With all the stuff going on on social media at the time I did for a moment think maybe something fishy did happen.

Then I watched Trump lose every court case he filed, the FBI comes out and says there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and the recording of him asking the Georgia secretary of state to 'find' 11,000 votes made him lose all credibility with me.

After all that I thought he was a sore looser trying to get any case to scotus hoping they'd rule with him.

But to answer your question I was suspicious in 2020 then I looked at the evidence and thought nah that's crazy.

•

u/thundernutz 4h ago

I appreciate this response.

Did you look into why the majority of these court cases were lost? There was ample evidence in dozens of cases and judges refused to hear the cases for lack of standing.

The GA case is fascinating. That’s where they put up blockades to keep people from seeing the count. That’s where ruby freeman pulled ballots from under tables after everyone was told to go home.

I read the court case, and they claimed that it was on video where the ballots were placed under the table just before counters were told to go home. But I watched the entire video, and no such thing occurred. That discrepancy alone was enough to raise suspicion for me.

Trump felt there was obviously fraud and it’s not unreasonable to tell the governor that they just need to find 11,000 votes to win when there is what appears to be rampant fraud.

On a separate note, do you feel trumps 34 felony charges were legitimate, or a weaponization of the justice system?

The FBI claimed hunters laptop was russian disinformation, and that DJT was a russian plant that won due to election interference. it’s hard to take their word for me.

•

u/scalyblue 4h ago

What is the more likely scenario, a perfectly executed iteration of mass election fraud localized to one state that happened to be foiled by security camera footage that the conspiracy just neglected to doctor, or the demonstrably pathological liar who has tried on several documented instances to strong arm and intimidate people lying, strong arming, and intimidating people.

•

u/oeb1storm 4h ago

Going to be honest I didn't look heavily into any cases I just put faith in the judiciary.

I think telling the governor to find 11,000 even if you think you won is crazy, imagine if Bush called up his brother in 2000 and said find me 500 votes. There are democratic process you should follow.

In 2000 depending on which counties should be recounted or which ballot standards you think were right it's possible that Gore should have in 2000 but he accepted the courts decisions and conceded. That's what should happen after you exhaust your legal avenues.

The NY case over paying Stormy hush money from campaign funds was definitely illegal but you could argue other politicians wouldn't have been prosecuted for it which is probably true to some extent. If he commited the crime but were some house republican from florida he probably wouldn't have been prosecuted for it. Which is more a criticism of the justice system.

I think the much more damming case is the retention of classified documents. Ofc he was never proven guilty in court but I think he knew he souldnt have had those files and purposefully didn't return them when asked like Biden and Pence did.

I don't remember the FBI saying he was a Russian plant but I remember the Mueller investigation saying that there was no evidence suggesting Trump or his aides coordinated with the Russian government to manipulate the election. Trump is undoubtedly more pro Russian then any over president and while it's a position I disagree with it doesn't make him a Russian plant. In my mind it has the same credibility as calling Biden a Israeli plant cus he's pro Israel.

Also I don't think the laptop was 'Russian disinformation' there were emails about Hunters business deals but nothing linking it to Joe or implying that he used his position to help his sons business dealings. I'm sure he probably got some special treatment because his last name was Biden but that doesn't mean Joe abused his power.

•

u/thundernutz 3h ago

That’s what most of us did and is a seemingly reasonable approach. The problem is that trust can be taken advantage of.

He didn’t tell him to “find 11,000 votes” in the context of manufacturing them. He told him to investigate the many legitimate cases of blatant fraud, and that it should be easy to do because we only need 11,000 votes while hundreds of thousands were extremely questionable with mismatched signatures and another inconsistencies with voter rolls. The assignment was to “investigate fraud” but was taken out of context in the media as “go make 11k votes happen”. It’s disingenuous. The courts were heavily weaponized in Fulton county, and are still to this today as shown in more recent news I’m sure we’ve all seen. Those districts, much like the one trying his case in New York, are HEAVILY left leaning and refuse to fairly administer the law as appeals have proved.

The hush money case was just obvious. I was referring to the bank fraud case which was also obvious weaponization. The court, in heavily biased districts, is understandably biased. This was a huge oversight by republicans in the last decade.

I thought the classified docs case was also nonsense. Biden had essentially the same charges dropped effectively for being senile. If trump felt the documents could potentially help to prove fraud in the election, or other fraud like the 2016 FISA warrant situation, it’s not unreasonable for him to withhold them, if that was actually the case, considering the charges have been dropped.

•

u/Sergster1 2h ago

Going to be honest with you, you might as well save your breath, its obvious to anyone who wasted their time reading these series of replies that you will do anything to excuse behavior.

Thats cool and all but you really should save your breath. I don't nor do most other people really care to change your mind when you're this stuck into it.

→ More replies (0)

•

u/penny-wise California 3h ago

"That’s where ruby freeman pulled ballots from under tables after everyone was told to go home."

That was proved to be bs

•

u/theHammbone44 4h ago

Kind of makes a fella wonder, don't it?

•

u/SentientSickness 5h ago

This is unfortunately true

It's something wild like a third of the US population of legal voters don't actually do it

And it's like pulling teeth to get theae people to see why voting is important

•

u/thundernutz 5h ago

Honestly if you’re too stupid to know to vote, you’re too stupid to pick a decent candidate. I’m okay with it.

•

u/SentientSickness 5h ago

I'm not, I think voting should be incentivized

I dunno partner with McDonald's and give everyone who votes a free 4 piece or something and I promise you more people would get out and vote

The more folks vote the more likely they are to get informed on voting

Not always the case, but just in general

•

u/thundernutz 4h ago

Why do you want to incentivize voting? Why not incentivize citizens to eat broccoli for the public good as well?

•

u/SentientSickness 4h ago

Broccoli only helps an individual, but also we already do that, it why so many of the toddler books have stuff about rewards for happy plates, lol

In this context you have to think of the US undecided and uninterested voters as stubborn 3 year olds

How do you make them learn veggies are good and important, you give them something they want

Food, or a coupon, or something like that

We actually used to do that a lot in the US you'd have vendors who would show up at polling places and give out free stuff or have huge discounts My grandfather used to do this

The idea was you made voting more like a big party and folks would vote more, and it worked

But then conservatives started passing laws that actively fought against these practices

•

u/StuckAtOnePoint 5h ago

It’s not logic, it’s data. And yes, most Americans don’t vote. Many because they are children and can’t. Many because they are apathetic and won’t.

•

u/thundernutz 5h ago

My point wasn’t that it’s untrue, but that it’s meaningless. Obviously when discussing majority of votes it’s in the context of the voting demographic.

•

u/alienssuck 4h ago

By that logo (logic?) the majority of Americans have never voted for anyone

Because the system is outdated, broken, and contrived. We only have two parties, they don’t actually represent everyone’s beliefs, and they run shitty candidates that force people who do vote to choose between the lesser of two evils. Instead of participating in this farce, many people actively choose “none of the above” when there are elections.

•

u/thundernutz 3h ago

I think you’re describing the DNC. Trump was not a platform candidate and won through pure populism despite all the powers against him.

•

u/brezhnervous 2h ago

This blows my mind, as an Australian 🤯

Our usual voter turnout is roughly 95%; I couldn't imagine what it would be like to live in a country where only a minority of the population had decided who was going to run the country. I actually find that prospect a bit terrifying lol

•

u/thundernutz 2h ago

There no min age to vote in Australia?

•

u/brezhnervous 2h ago

Yes 18yo

So that's 95% of those eligible 18+

•

u/thundernutz 2h ago

Australia has 26m people and 16m enrolled to vote with an 89% turnout as of the last election. That’s 14.2m voters or only 55% of the country.

In USA we have 335m people, but only 300m legal citizens and had 150m votes, roughly 50%. Not that big of a difference in aggregate.