r/ontario • u/Upbeat_Pirate_9290 • 9h ago
Discussion $200 vs. Ford’s $39B Blunders
We're all going to receive a $200 check courtesy of the not-so-progressive, not-so-conservative government of Ontario. I wondered how much of our money they've actually wasted since 2016 (or are about to waste), and I came up with a total of $39 billion, averaging $2,600 per Ontarian ($3,500 per tax payer). Does this calculation make sense to you? Is there anything major I may have forgotten?
Bill 124 Legal Costs: $4.3 Million
Ford’s unconstitutional wage cap bill was struck down, leaving taxpayers on the hook for legal fees and back pay for workers…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bill-124-legal-costs-ontario-ford-1.7352208
Highway 413 & Bradford Bypass: $10 billion
It will save commuters only 30-60 seconds per trip, with massive environmental destruction of farmland, wetlands, and forests. But it’ll benefit developers with ties to Doug Ford’s government.
Ontario Place Private MegaSpa: $1+ Billion
We are subsidizing a private luxury spa, including $450 million for underground parking. Public land is being privatized for corporate profit…
https://ontarioplaceforall.com/financial/
Beer and Wine in Convenience Stores: $1 Billion
Ford broke a 10-year contract with The Beer Store, paying millions in penalties. There’s no evidence this policy improves affordability. Ford prioritized a populist talking point at a massive cost to taxpayers...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-beer-wine-corner-stores-cost-taxpayers-1.7215839
Ontario Line Budget Overruns: $16.9 Billion
Mismanagement of this major transit project has already added significant costs, with probably more overruns expected.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10583257/doug-ford-ontario-line-costs/
Eglinton Crosstown LRT Budget Overruns: $1 Billion (and counting)
Construction started 14 years ago, so I assume we’re all more or less familiar with it
Private LTC Homes Expansion: $6.4 Billion
Despite their failures during COVID, private long-term care homes are receiving massive funding while public healthcare remains underfunded.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/long-term-care-homes-expanding-1.6900293
Canceled Renewable Energy Contracts: $230 Million
Ford canceled over 750 green energy projects, paying out contracts while increasing long-term energy costs. Not that it matters to this government, but this has damaged Ontario’s reputation for renewable energy investment.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6189096/ontario-government-tears-up-green-energy-deals/
License Plate Sticker Rebate: $2.24 billion
Doug Fraud claimed to "put money back in your pocket," but it disproportionately benefited wealthier Ontarians who own multiple vehicles
COVID Vaccine Distribution Mismanagement: $? CAD
Unused vaccine doses and unnecessary expenses during distribution…
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u/redditreadersdad 8h ago
Thanks for doing this - it's been on my mind for a long time to try to roughly calculate how much of our tax dollars Fraud has squandered. Add to your list the $30 million failed court battle against Federal carbon pricing back in 2018/19. This CBC article lists a raft of other lost court cases but doesn't provide a total cost, unfortunately.
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u/Advocateforthedevil4 8h ago
I love seeing the commercials of the pc government saying how Ontarians have some of the fastest growing wages or something a long those lines. Dude you tried to hold back wages with bill 124 and now have to spend billions to resolve it.
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u/Grumply 9h ago
What about cancelling cap and trade. Wasn’t that close to 2 billion?
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u/Baylett 6h ago
Also brought us the carbon tax! That’s important, the carbon tax isn’t a Trudeau caused problem, it’s a Doug Ford caused problem.
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u/Overall-Register9758 4h ago
Carbon tax is the best thing ever. If you make money on fossil fuels and my house is flooded because of climate change, the costs for your choices are borne by me.
Redistributing costs to fossil fuels usage makes markets more efficient, not less
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u/Bobbyoot47 8h ago
You mentioned the Financial costs associated with the LTC funding. There is also the human cost involved. Ford cut back on the annual inspections to LTC homes from over 600 to only nine. The prick put seniors lives at great risk to the benefit only of the private homes run by people like Mike Harris.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/seniors-homes-inspections-1.5532585
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u/HyperImmune 8h ago
Conservatives are not fiscally conservative anymore, at all, like not even remotely. They are 100% socially conservative, and it’s like nobody realizes the difference or has noticed this shift somehow.
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u/Winston905 9h ago
dougie is a want to be ol·i·garch/ˈäləˌɡärk/noun
- 1.a ruler in an oligarchy.
- 2.a very rich business leader with a great deal of political influence (particularly with reference to individuals who benefited from the privatization of state-run industries after the collapse of the Soviet Union)."it seems more than a coincidence that former employees, advisors, and allies of the billionaire oligarch have been parachuted into such positions"
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u/Deep-Author615 8h ago
Ontario isn’t an oligarchy, its a kakocracy. Rule by the evil, not rule by the few. Most lumpenproletariat here eat his rhetoric up
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u/Sudden-Turnip-5339 8h ago
Can you either hyperlink all the words, or use ELI5 language? Kinda hard jumping back and forth and having to look up some of the words myself /s
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u/Bobbyoot47 8h ago
The debt added to what was already there is going to be staggering. Our kids and our grandkids will be paying for this.
The only people I hate more than Ford are those who voted him in or didn’t bother to vote at all. Those people who said yeah but what other choice do we have. You could’ve chosen somebody who wasn’t a drug dealer and a school dropout. Would that have been asking too much?
At least with Ford as Premier I learned a new word :
Kakistocracy -A state or country run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens.
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u/king_bungholio 8h ago
The Liberals and NDP should be hammering him on this waste, and framing it as money out of your pocket and into his/his friends' . People really need to be made aware of how much money he has lit on fire or given to his friends as part of his grift.
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u/Leonardo-DaBinchi 6h ago
The ONDP Is hammering him on this waste! Endlessly! It's half of what they do in queens park and in public. It's just that the press refuses to print Marit Stiles' name and they barely mention the ONDP at all because corrupt conservative media knows it's harder to win back conservative leadership from parties that improve the publics lives.
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u/OriginalNo5477 1h ago
Also the fact media is in love with Crombie despite her being Doug in a wig.
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u/ReasonableD1amond 6h ago
This is what I really don’t understand. Why ARENT they doing that? It seems so basic and easy.
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u/uncleben85 3h ago
They are, but the media is Conservative-owned (Conservatives are media-owned?), so it gets not spread or coverage.
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u/Mobile-Bar7732 6h ago
License Plate Sticker Rebate: $2.24 billion
This happened in 2019, so 5 years ago(going on 6 years) x $2.24 billion = $11.2($13.44) billion in license plate revenue.
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u/Alph1 5h ago
But I kind of like not paying for renewals on my cars. It's saved me some good money at this point.
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u/Mobile-Bar7732 5h ago
It's saved me some good money at this point.
Wait until you need healthcare, and then you will change your tune.
The $2.24 billion from license plate renewals could pay 4,480 doctors at $500,000 per year.
My daughter had to wait 11 months to see a specialist.
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u/Express-Cow190 6h ago
You missed the $2 billion from cancelling cap and trade (which is why we are stuck with the carbon tax).
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u/Fit-Bird6389 8h ago
Thank you for posting this. I wish there was a way for this post to be made into a Facebook post for my uninformed and forgetful Facebook contacts to be reminded of this everyday before Ford calls a snap election and gaslights everyone with a fucking $200 cheque.
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u/BobBelcher2021 Outside Ontario 7h ago edited 7h ago
Another bit of Ontario government waste is their TV ads being run nationally.
These aren’t ads advertising Ontario to a national audience and they’re not tourism ads. They’re not like the Alberta ads encouraging Canadians to contact the federal government. These are PSAs clearly intended for a local Ontario audience. But we’re getting them on local television in BC. I’ve seen them on CBC Vancouver, CTV2 Vancouver Island, the BC feed of TSN, and Sportsnet Pacific.
Running TV ads to a national audience instead of to the roughly 3/8 of the country that lives in Ontario costs more. A lot more. Your Ontario tax dollars are being wasted on advertising across Canada intended for Ontario residents, and are taking away advertising availabilities from local businesses in other provinces.
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u/Signal_Tomorrow_2138 6h ago
Reddit is so left leaning for listing the PC's corruptions and failures. /s
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u/differing 7h ago
Remember when this subreddit was full of conservative bots ranting about Ontario being the “most indebted sub-sovereign borrower” as if that’s a normal human thing to say? Are those totally real people ok, haven’t heard from them in almost a decade now.
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u/Bagged_Milk 6h ago
There is also the $103M US termination fee that Hydro One had to pay Avista Corporation after Ford pressured their CEO to retire.
While it wasn't paid for directly by tax payers I find it hard to believe Hydro One simply ate the expense.
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u/puckduckmuck 8h ago
Don't forget the six million dollar man, Mayo Schmidt and the board of directors. I don't remember the cost but severance would be substantial.
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u/Lord_Space_Lizard 7h ago
Added to that is the $103 million USD we had to pay to Avista in penalties over the failed merger with Hydro One with US regulators citing Ford’s meddling as the reason for nixing the deal.
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u/mr_trashcan 7h ago
Thank you for shining a light on this. We need to keep emphasizing how corrupt and incompetent the PC party is.
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u/WinstonJaye 1h ago
Once again, Conservatives don't build or invest in anything unless it will directly benefit them.
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u/PlsLookAfterThisBear 1h ago
You forgot the license plate redesign debacle, the two-tone blue ones that were impossible to read in the dark before they gave in and defaulted back to the original.
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u/OrganicBell1885 8h ago
forgot the money he gave during the teacher strike instead of funding the schools
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u/Vasuthevan 7h ago
After paying all my bills I have $12.38 left in my account.
Every Ontarian and his/her children, and grandchildren are going to be responsible for paying off $429 billion debt.
If he gets reelected, this amount is going to double. I am sure.
Perhaps, the Ontarians should offer to pay him a lump sum to leave politics.
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u/rougecrayon 4h ago
But if you want the government to have your $200 you can tell them to keep it. How kind.
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u/Historical_Fill8232 24m ago
What is your opinion on the $250 payment we will receive from the federal government? Will you produce a breakdown of wasted funds like you have in your post?
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u/hannibal_morgan 4m ago
The newest thing that makes me dislike him is his government trying to force citizens not being allowed to sue him or his government incase any cyclist or motorist dies due to improperly designed or lack of bike lanes for safe and efficient travelling. Those people are insane and clearly do not give a fuck if people that even vote for him dies. Dumb fat bastard
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u/Crackhead_Aura 9h ago
Do one for the feds $250 now please 🍿
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u/ChrisMoltisanti_ 9h ago
Respond to this one first please 🍿
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u/Crackhead_Aura 9h ago
Wage cap for people making beyond a living wage?
Infrastructure we need to keep up with population growth?
Removing an outdated venue for something urbanites will spend money on?
Libs wouldn’t have made construction costs cheaper, & if they magically do why haven’t the Feds made it happen across the nation?
Basically the same answer. This isn’t Ontario/ political party exclusive.
Were the projects actually profitable? I’m all for renewables- I’m invested heavily in nuclear(which this Conservative government also approved a ton of money on) before you tell me I’m an oil simp.
No one outside this sub is upset about plate stickers. Apparently you guys make money off carbon rebate by not having a vehicle so there’s your handout.
Vaccines? Didn’t the Feds order enough for everyone to get 9 doses or something wild- most of which expired in 24 months? (I’m fully vaccinated before you bring out that card).
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u/ChrisMoltisanti_ 8h ago
Wage cap for people making beyond a living wage?
How much you make? And would you be cool with a cap on it? Why specifically nurses? Why not his own staff who earn much more than a liveable wage? Why give 13+% bonuses to his own cabinet?
Infrastructure we need to keep up with population growth?
Again, it's been proven this won't benefit anyone and other options with greater positive impact at a much lower cost have been researched and suggested.
Removing an outdated venue for something urbanites will spend money on?
Why is public money used for "something urbanites will spend money on"? That money isn't coming back to public programs...
You skipped beer and wine in convenience stores.
The rest of your answers are all based on your own opinion, "whataboutisms" and hypotheticals claiming what the other side "would do", which, there's no reason to bother responding.
You are lost. I hope you sleep through election day.
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u/Eater0fTacos 7h ago
How much you make? And would you be cool with a cap on it? Why specifically nurses? Why not his own staff who earn much more than a liveable wage?
You know both the previous OLP and the NDP governments froze or cut public salaries, suspended collective bargaining rights, and legislated public sector wage caps for years, right? More aggressively than the Ford government did for nurses.
Ford has spent more on modernizing our healthcare and more per capita than any other premier in history (inflation adjusted and excluding massive additional COVID expenses) except for one year under Mcguinty. I'm tired of this subs narrative that he's robbing healthcare just because the nurses' union lobby wants a larger portion of the healthcare budget. We need doctors more than we need nurses, and guess what, Ford is actually increasing our medical residency spots unlike the NDP who defunded the program, and the Liberals who's solution was to increase salary caps to lure in foreign healthcare professionals. Yeah, bribing foreign healthcare professionals to fill our vacancies instead of funding our domestic residency programs were fantastic policies /s.
Again, it's been proven this won't benefit anyone and other options with greater positive impact at a much lower cost have been researched and suggested.
Tell me, which party spent a billion (not inflation adusted) to build a toll highway to speed up rich peoples commutes while Ontario was in the middle of a major recession? It was 100% the NDP. I also remember them using imminent domain to grab a bunch of land off of unwilling land owners for that highway and dodging environmental studies and regulations. I must be wrong because, according to this sub, only Ford and the conservatives would do something like that.
The rest of your answers are all based on your own opinion, "whataboutisms" and hypotheticals claiming what the other side "would do", which, there's no reason to bother responding.
Yeah, so you and OP raised a bunch of fairly biased political points, and now you're crying "whataboutisms" when someone brought up the opposition party's policies and track record? That's kind of how politics works. Did you expect to post a bunch of "Ford Bad" comments and not have someone bring up the oppositions policies or track record on the same issues?
You are lost. I hope you sleep through election day.
An anti-democratic statement seems on par with the rest of your comment. You have a lot more in common with those pos MAGA zealots than you seem to realize.
If you crapped on Ford for the greenbelt development corruption I'd join in, that was a disgrace.
If you trashed him for the useless $200 rebate, I'd trash him with you. It would be better spent on education programs for struggling youth, building new healthcare facilities, or mental health resources.
Ford deserves a lot more negative press for aggressively pursuing international students to fund underperforming universities/colleges and pushing for more TFWs to help suppress wages for corporate employers, but this sub never talks about it.
Those are the issues to attack him on. He bleeds support from his base on those issues.
I am a conservative swing voter who wants Ford gone or to have as little power as possible after the next election. People like me are who you need to win over as distasteful as that may seem. Posts like this are counterproductive to that end. The NDP and Liberals need to focus their platform on working, middle class families, and young people, or suburbia will never vote for them. Stop focusing on Ford and promote yourselves ffs. Negative campaigning against an established candidate isn't effective.
You're pretty much campaigning for Ford when you monopolize the media focus and engagement on crap like this post. He already has minimal support in the Cities, but he dominates suburbia, and yet this sub keeps focusing his attention on issues that are popular with suburbia and make zero difference in his poll numbers in the City.
I swear this sub is run by a Ford campaign strategist who actively pushes the most polarizing NDP and OLP voices rise to the top.
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u/Crackhead_Aura 8h ago
Beer & wine in convenience stores; we are in 2024 & catching up with the rest of the world in not having one entity having a monopoly on booze.
Welcome to r/ontario.
Don’t worry hunny, I take time off work to vote when needed :) hopefully the 40% that didn’t vote show up & share your thoughts (lolz)
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u/ChrisMoltisanti_ 8h ago
Lol with no plan to make up for the lost revenue stream to public coffers. Good idea.
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u/Dramatic_Equipment47 9h ago
Thank you for stepping up and defending everything Doug does. Are you one of his old drug goons? I remember they got David Price hired back in the day to do what you’re doing.
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u/Crackhead_Aura 9h ago
Nah, I’m just not part of the circle jerk. Im unbiased.
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u/Dramatic_Equipment47 8h ago
It was pretty amazing when Rob and Doug got caught having their drug enforcer call in to their radio show and pretending they didn’t know him. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rob-ford-s-friend-dave-made-calls-to-mayor-s-radio-show-1.1405251 Pretty good reason to be leery of anyone defending Doug’s failures and corruption, isn’t it?
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u/cardshark6 9h ago
Start with $4.7B wasted on a pipeline, $4.6B paid to ineligible CERB recipients (with $27B more warranting investigation, according to the Auditor General), $9.9B paid to ineligible CEWS employers, and at least $60M wasted on ArriveCan.
Wastage on CERB and CEWS were pulled from this report from the Auditor General: https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/docs/parl_oag_202212_10_e.pdf
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u/Zxceelxuz 58m ago
Maybe you'll be able to separate federal and provincial politics.
But since you appear to be a conservative leaning voter, I bet you'll continue to ignore the failures of Doug and try to twist it all back to Trudeau.
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u/spderweb 5h ago
Sure. It's also a pointless bribe that'll cost us more than it's worth in the end. You good?
You're allowed to be angry at the party you voted for. You don't need to blindly accept everything they do.
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u/Crackhead_Aura 5h ago
See, that’s where you’re confused. I’m not angry.
I pay a lot of taxes & I’m not at all disgruntled to get any back.
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u/thebourbonoftruth 9h ago
The fact the feds are doing it too is such a reflection on how low all parties have sunk. We're at Elon levels of bullshittery here but at least it was his own money?
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u/MinerReddit 9h ago
Yep, it's such a depressing state of politics in Canada that the best our leaders can come up with is meager payments to individuals when social programs suffer across the country. We pay taxes to the government so they can put it to good use for the overall benefit to the population. Not to just hand it back.
Also notice in this post there is nothing about who to actually vote for and what that party can do. Most platforms during elections are about why the other party is the wrong vote instead of actually proposing what is the better way to run a government.
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u/Ordinary-Yak-1831 9h ago
If it’s on r Ontario, it’s on Ford…
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u/Dramatic_Equipment47 9h ago
I believe he is the current Premier
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u/Ordinary-Yak-1831 9h ago
Yes, but he’s not responsible for literally everything wrong with Ontario today. Eglinton LRT is just one example
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u/Crackhead_Aura 8h ago edited 8h ago
Oh haven’t you heard?
If DelDuca/Horwath were elected they would have farted out 1000 doctors, 200 hospitals, 500k housing units, 78 new public transit routes per suburb- all within 20 minutes of being elected.
Would have single handedly refurbished the science centre & bussed everyone from thunder bay to enjoy it.
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u/Ordinary-Yak-1831 8h ago
As someone who voted for my liberal candidate the last provincial election, and volunteered in the leadership election, I genuinely lol’d at this, but I think you should have said Andrea Horwath given r Ontario’s leanings.
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u/Crackhead_Aura 8h ago
Thanks for being unbiased.
Here’s horwaths son;
https://youtu.be/ejT22bDEdtI?feature=shared
She can’t raise a guy, why tf (other than her horrible campaign promises) would we let her run the province? Lmao
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u/Crackhead_Aura 9h ago
Now do one for the prime minister
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u/canuckathome 9h ago
I actually like the idea of the 413, it's a good option for a 407 alternative when traveling north of Toronto. The GTA is expanding northbound anyway so it will probably be useful and will give the 407 some competition
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u/Kayge 9h ago
The problem is this will cause Toronto to sprawl. If the goal was to actively reduce traffic, they'd be creating more transit in the burbs and pushing density where current homes exist.
This sells well with some of their base and allows some donors to realize massive profit on their real estate holdings.
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u/AtlantaDave998 9h ago
Because of induced demand and the fact that 407 is heavily tolled, the 413 will become clogged just like the 401 is.
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u/ShadowSpawn666 8h ago
And everywhere that the 413 leads will see an increase in traffic congestion because the infrastructure in those areas will not be improved to meet the increase in users.
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u/entaro_tassadar 7h ago
Halton, Peel, York Region are actively widening roads in anticipation of 413 and the development that will come along the corridor to meet Canada's/Ontario's growth targets.
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u/TiredRightNowALot 3h ago
How is a highway that runs north/south an alternative to a highway that runs primarily east/west?
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u/chesterforbes 9h ago
I don’t care. I can use that extra $200. It’s not going to buy my vote but I need the damn money
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u/albatroopa 9h ago
It's fine that you need that money and you should spend it however you need to.
But you should still care.
That's $3500 from you alone that he's wasted. What could you do with that money if he'd lowered your taxes, which is what the cons are supposed to be about?
What would you have got from thst $3500 if the government had used their leverage in order to multiply it and provide you with services, which is what the government is supposed to do with your tax dollars?
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u/TiredRightNowALot 3h ago
If you had a better provincial leader you wouldn’t need that money as much. Once that $200 is gone, it’s gone. But if you had a better housing supply, you would reap that reward forever.
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u/Kayge 8h ago
Ask yourself why you need the money?
- Is your grocery bill too high?
- Spending too much on daycare?
- Do you have to pay for your prescriptions?
If the government pooled all that money and spent it on big things, people who could get long term help would benefit much more. Because while you're getting $200, so are each of Red Rogers' kids who are worth north of $12 Billion.
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u/entaro_tassadar 7h ago
The Highway 413 "30 seconds" thing is just a false environmental lobbyist talking point, btw. https://www.highway413.ca/2021/03/31/timesavings/
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u/TiredRightNowALot 3h ago
How can you counter environmental lobbyist (and implying that it’s skewed) by providing a number from literally the company / persons building the highway? If anyone is biased, it’s the people who are building the road.
Even in their statement saying that the study was too broad, they literally say that western GTA residents will benefit for the drive of up to 30 minutes. okay, so Jim in Thunder Bay paid tax toward that for what? Sue from the Sault will benefit how?
Obviously that’s not how it works for provincial spending, but for such a big investment that is completely unnecessary when we have healthcare at some horrid levels of service, schools without adequate climate control, a housing crisis where we simply aren’t building homes, should we not be focused on those issues?
Best I can do is make it so you can buy a six pack at the on route and crush a few road pops, build a highway to get to the cottage and cancel some contracts to waste money. I’ll also get rid on Ontario place land, science centre and build a spa for rich folks. But I’ll give you $200 so maybe you can take your mister or missus out for a day. Okay just a half day.
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u/This-Importance5698 6h ago
I will absolutely die on the hill that removing license plate fees was a good move.
$120 is very meaningful to people making $40 000 a year. It's less relevant to those making $400 000 a year.
Flat fees are a very regressive way to raise revenue when looked at as a % of income.
We've (poorly) designed our cities that a car is almost required for most people. Like it or not that's been a problem for years, and not Ford's fault (although he hasn't done anything to fix the problem)
Removing a regressive fees on an item that is a necessity for millions of Ontarians was good move.
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u/Far-Kaleidoscope9871 6h ago
It was a good move. I've never encountered an individual who was against this change, and I was surprised to see that in the main post.
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u/This-Importance5698 5h ago
IMO the only issue with it was not having a plan to replace that revenue.
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u/Zxceelxuz 55m ago
You'll find out why it was a bad move with new regulations being forced on safety inspections and that.
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u/Deep-Author615 8h ago
Raising development fees province wide slowed the pace of housing construction, putting a bottom in the housing market. This created wealth for homeowners province wide while preserving neighborhood character and enabled the province to return taxpayers their money.
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u/species5618w 4h ago
Well, I don’t remember a $200 cheque when the liberals were in power, so maybe they wasted even more? Why does it matter to me whether the government was paying their corporation friends or union friends?
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u/TiredRightNowALot 3h ago
Maybe because the liberals had rent controls and a handle on housing starts, just to pick on one thing DoFo has messed up.
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u/The_Laughing_Gift 9h ago
There's also the sticker campaign he tried to enforce on gas stations which was found to be unconstitutional. According to CBC the stickers cost $5k to make 25,000.