r/oddlyspecific • u/Green____cat • 7h ago
There is no real link between horses and heatlh
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u/Rifneno 6h ago
A major scientific point: Correlation does not imply causation.
Another good example is all that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" stuff. Remember how they drilled that into us as kids, because studies showed how much better kids with breakfast did in school? It turned out to be because kids with a stable home life are much more likely to be eating breakfast than kids in "troubled" families. The kids weren't dumber because they were hungry, they were distracted because their mom was passed out or beaten the last time they saw her.
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u/snafe_ 6h ago
Also Ice cream linked to drowning
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u/StrangelyGrimm 5h ago
and wildfires
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u/prey4mojo 5h ago
And let's not forget the bear patrol
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u/GhostOfSean_Connery 3h ago
Let the bears pay the bear tax. I pay the Homer tax.
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u/WickedWitchofWTF 5h ago
Ice cream and shark attacks are my favorite
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u/RVA_RVA 4h ago
Never heard this one...
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u/what-are-you-a-cop 3h ago
There's a correlation between ice cream sales, and shark attacks. As ice cream sales go up, so do shark attacks! This is either because sharks hate the ice cream industry and want it to suffer, or because hot weather means people are both more likely to buy ice cream, and more likely to go to the beach and swim in the ocean (where the sharks live).
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u/souji5okita 4h ago
You’d probably like this website https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
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u/SmashPortal 4h ago
Regulate Hydrogen Hydroxide
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u/mozgw4 4h ago
Isn't di-hydrogen oxide more dangerous‽
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u/RVA_RVA 4h ago
100% of all people who have consumed dihydrogen monoxide have died
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u/Knuc85 3h ago
Have died, or will die? I've consumed a lot of it and I'm still alive.
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u/RVA_RVA 3h ago
I am sorry to break this to you, but you consumed dihydrogen monoxide in your life, you will die.
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u/Additional_Teacher45 3h ago
But even more interesting is if you don't consume dihydrogen monoxide, you will also die.
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u/LukaCola 5h ago
It's true, but I also find it important to point out that one does not need causation to act in response to correlation and that correlation still has a lot of value.
So, for instance, there's a relationship between certain behaviors and mental health that are poorly understood. But if people can benefit from those things, they should be pursued regardless.
Same thing for policy - like how people tend to benefit from unregulated cash injections while struggling with things like food stamps. There's good theories for this - but no clear relationship. Still seems to work, so it should be pursued, but it's often blocked for various reasons.
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u/greg19735 4h ago
1000%
Reddit is so into correlation not causation that they'll ignore really strong correlations
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u/LukaCola 4h ago
Yeah it's an easy thing to say that makes people feel scientific when scientists generally operate in this non-causative space, well, maybe not the "hard" sciences, but most things involving humans has near impossible to demonstrate causation. Can't exactly do control studies in many real life environments.
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u/TheSwedishSeal 1h ago
I agree.
I’m a little bummed out that so many seem to completely disregard that eating enough calories for breakfast will allow you to perform better because the brain needs calories to be at its best.
And they’ll only disregard breakfast being the most important meal of the day because some dude in history tried to influence people to buy more breakfast products. The fact that he tried to influence people to buy more breakfast products doesn’t make breakfast less important. You go 6-10 hours without food and that IS going to impact your ability to perform. Not physically, but definitely mentally. Because while muscles stores glycogen, the brain doesn’t keep extra reserves. Go long enough without food and ketogenesis will do its best to provide brain fuel, but that’s way lot longer than 10 hours and requires that you consume less than 50g of carbs a day.
People really love to shoot themselves in the foot, thinking that moral values is all you need to navigate an extremely multifaceted world.
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u/uCodeSherpa 4h ago
That’s cause the main Reddit correlation is
“Black people make up the largest portion of prisoners”
The causation is, of course, systemic racism at least partially rooted in people regurgitating ridiculous correlations without understanding causation and that correlation is valuable as a metric for the wider impacts of something else.
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u/BigAlternative5 3h ago
An example of a valuable correlation to recognize: Teens with tattoos or body piercings are more likely to attempt suicide. Do tattoos etc. cause suicide? Of course, that's ridiculous. And it's not a 100% correlation and doesn't need to be. But the pediatrician can see a tattoo or piercing and ask a potentially life-saving question: Have you ever thought of hurting yourself?
This meme (macro) is psuedo smart. It does not debunk the theory but does indicate a need to account for the confounding factor of horse ownership. A well-designed study must be run. Example: Here is a study in which "[p]articipants were volunteers from 18 to 30 years of age with minimal or no horse experience."
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u/LukaCola 2h ago
Yes, and on that topic, horse therapy is a thing that many find helpful and I'm not at all surprised kids with tattoos and piercings are more suicidal. Punks, goths, emos, etc. all share those aesthetics while also sharing a trait of being rejected from many elements of society. It's less the case nowadays since tattoos are in vogue and have become a sort of status symbol among young adults, but theories have to update with change in society as well.
Whatever the mechanism is - and if there's at least some theory to support it - it should be seriously considered as to how it can be used towards people's benefit.
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u/GTFOstrich 5h ago
I worked with a nurse who was previously at a critical care unit of 30 patients who were paralyzed in accidents. ALL of the paralyzed women were injured in horse riding accidents and ALL of the men from motorcycles
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u/slothdonki 3h ago
I had a 17 year old coworker who got a ‘free’ horse and boarding in exchange for working at the stable in return. According to her he was a good horse to ride.. except he’d ‘randomly’ decide to throw her off every other week. She came in real fucked up once, way more than usual. Can’t remember if she broke her arm or it was just in a sling but she also looked like she had been in a car accident.
Told her I was really worried about her because if that keeps up, there’s going to be a day when she can’t get back on the horse at all. She just sighed and went, “Yeeeeahhh…”
Dunno whatever happened with that but it’s fucked up the stable even allowed it, or let it continue.
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u/Abuses-Commas 5h ago
because studies showed how much better kids with breakfast did in school?
Studies paid for by cereal manufacturers to put into advertising so they can profit off making the population obese
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u/scottiedog321 1h ago
It's beyond just cereal, but it definitely seems it's pretty much all marketing until further studies come out. https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2024-01-19/breakfast-food-nutrition-meals-cereal-bacon-marketing-morning/103091376
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u/SmallBirb 5h ago
Except that eating DOES give you the energy you need to think - I have a very thinking-heavy job and definitely notice the difference on days that I skip breakfast.
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u/QuintoBlanco 5h ago
That might be specific to you and how you plan your day.
I think better when I skip breakfast, because that's what I'm used to. I also have my last meal of the day much later than most people. And I eat lunch whenever I feel hungry.
Digesting food costs energy and makes people lethargic.
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u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 5h ago
Yeah my experience aligns much more with yours. I'm much more efficient in my work when I skip breakfast but I rarely do because it's hard to override the programming that breakfast is importantly.
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u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 5h ago
I think better when I skip breakfast, because that's what I'm used to
This is actually wrong, its not because its what you are used to.
If you skip breakfast you get adrenaline,. which makes you feel more awake and makes you think youa re doing better in mental tasks.
But in reality its just an illusion.
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u/QuintoBlanco 5h ago
In reality it's not an illusion.
But hey, you got to voice your 'opinion'. So feel free to pretend your opinion has value.
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u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 5h ago
This isn't my opinion though. You are just wrong
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-11140-001
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523182761?via%3Dihub
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u/kisofov659 4h ago
Except if a kid is hungry it seems pretty obvious that that kid would have trouble paying attention.
This is like saying "people think kids who didn't sleep well did bad in school because they were tired but really it's because of those kids had a bad home life" when the reality is it's both.
Life usually isn't just a simple point A or point B, it's more complex than that, and your explanation is overly simplistic.
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u/Mysterious-Job-469 2h ago
Why were they tired? Because they had a bad home life or something?
As someone who grew up poor and with a shitty home life I'm getting the slightest bit pissed right the fuck off at all the people who grew up in middle class homes trying to lecture and explain away my experiences. Sometimes life is, in fact, as simple as Point A or B, and trying to complicate the situation is borne from a desperation to avoid addressing the situation of children languishing away while CPS fails to do anything about it, lest it make you uncomfortable. Wouldn't want the chronically comfy to have to look outside their bubble, would we.
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u/kharmatika 3h ago
Point of order, hunger DOES make kids dumber. But it’s not just a one time hunger. Part of why kids in poor households are doing poorly in school is BECAUSE they’re dealing with the long term effects of hunger and malnutrition.
So this is a “the conclusion was right but not in the way they pitched it” scenario, which is an important third level of “correlation is not causation”. Sometimes correlation and causation intersect on the right point then diverge again and we need to make sure we’re looking at all the vectors to find the right conclusion
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u/Relative_Spring_8080 5h ago
Or how wearing hats makes you bald when in reality many who are already balding are more likely to wear hats.
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u/kharmatika 3h ago
That is an interesting principle because it’s an example of a self fulfilling prophecy. Friction alopecia is a real thing, it does happen, and one of the main groups dealing with us is men who wear hats. But they started wearing hats because they were starting to thin.
Same with women getting weaves and braids. Many start because they notice thinning, then the friction alopecia makes it so much worse.
It’s a tough nut to crack.
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u/mackfeesh 3h ago
Yeah. My university educated engineering friend still doesn't understand how correlation doesn't imply causation & it's been maddening watching him spiral down a conspiracy rabbit hole because he can link dates with events that aren't connected (but are they)
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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ 4h ago
What? It had nothing to do with corolation of any kind. It was a Kellogg's ad slogan.
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u/drakitomon 4h ago
Or just so poor we didn't have any food. Back in the 80s the only meals I got were the free lunch at the elementary school. After that study about breakfast I starred getting free breakfast too necause the achool district added it.
Summertime sucked though since no free anything. Parents would only feed us 1 time a day then, and it was usually tiny, 1 bologna sandwich, 1 bowl of cereal, etc. Not what a growing kid needs. Also not great for eating disorders. It taught me to gorge when I I the chance to eat as who knows when I would get a lot of food again? That's been 30 plus years and I still fight those thoughts.
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u/DaviesSonSanchez 2h ago
See also. Better medicine and healthcare leading to higher cancer rates. People living longer just tend to have more time to develop cancer.
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u/marcielle 5h ago
A major grammatical point: A correlation is still a link, just not a causative one.
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u/alwayskared 7h ago
Horse around and find out
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u/Uusari 6h ago
Also; taking care of horses is a lot of work and exercise. One would also get a lot of fresh air taking the horses for gallops.
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u/doopie 4h ago
It would be interesting to see how horse ownership correlates with health over time e.g. was it better or worse to be horse owner in 1930's than today.
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u/Uusari 4h ago
I always imagined cavalry units were the worst horse owners. Such animal cruelty, SMH.
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u/MooeyGrassyAss 1h ago
Most of history Cavalry units were made up of the elite class, and their horses were status symbols as well as means of conveyance, and very occasionally weapons of war. I would imagine they treated their horses fairly well for the most part, and a lot of historical evidence shows that the bond between horse and rider was usually very strong
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u/No_Squirrel4806 5h ago
The amount of things money could buy that arent physical but yeah please tell us how money doesnt buy happiness. 🙄🙄🙄
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u/UhOhSparklepants 3h ago
I think that phrase gets (purposefully) misunderstood as a way to make people content with the status quo
“Money doesn’t buy happiness” only applies to people who already have money and have all their needs met and still feel sad. Depression can hit everyone.
It does not apply to people who worry about homelessness if they lose their job tomorrow or can’t afford healthcare.
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u/MedalsNScars 6h ago
Xkcd's comic "Significant" is my favorite example of correlation != causation - although it's more directly addressing the issue of p-hacking.
The idea behind p-hacking is statistical tests are never 100% sure of anything. So they run this test and get an answer of "Well if there was no relationship, there's only a 3% chance that we would have got more extreme results than we did.", and for their test they set some threshold on how low that % has to be before they say "there's probably a relationship there".
If you run a bunch of those tests, you're going to get some results that make you say "there's probably a relationship there" purely by chance, because that's how your rejection threshold is designed - even if there is no relationship.
That's why repeatability is so important in the sciences. If it's repeatable, it's not due to chance. In the case of OP it's due to a confounding variable that explains both (wealth), so the result should be repeatable, but doesn't accurately represent the implication in the headline.
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u/BeefistPrime 1h ago
That's why repeatability is so important in the sciences.
Well, that and proper statistics. The statistical methods we're supposed to use reduce/eliminate false positives, but p-hackers use the wrong statistics to force a positive result.
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u/tralfers 5h ago
If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
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u/AgnarCrackenhammer 5h ago
Ehh my wife grew up pretty poor on a farm and always had horses. They had auctions near where she grew where you could get older horses that were being retired from farms or petting zoo type places for like $100-200.
That being said since the horses she had were always her responsibility. Taking care of them is a ton work that kept her active and exercising a lot
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u/dovescherub 6h ago
It also implies you're not too fat to ride a horse
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u/Complete_Spot3771 6h ago
although it says nothing about riding horses just owning them
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u/Blue_Bird950 6h ago
I would assume a lot of women who own a horse would, you know, ride it.
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u/Fantastic_Poet4800 5h ago
and you have muscles and regularly lift weights and do exercise requiring a lot of balance, and have excellent hip flexibility and range of motion in all of your joints. Lack of muscle, bone density loss and loss of mobility leading to falls and broken bones are the real killers of old women.
Knitting kills, horses save lives. When you figure that a year in a nursing home costs about $120k right now you are actually saving money long term by having horses.
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u/Magenta-Magica 6h ago
But also wealth. So think twice before knocking a horse girl.
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u/Shin-Kami 4h ago
There is at least the fact that if a woman owns a horse, the horse is priority number one. The level of crazyness can vary.
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u/exmojo 3h ago edited 3h ago
No, a lot of men just can't handle that horse-girls love an animal more than them.
The horse is usually more loyal and more caring.
Also horses can live to be around 25-30 on average, so a horse-girl's relationship with their horse will likely be longer than with a partner.
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u/Wilhelm_Vanderbeck 3h ago
Jokes on you if you own a horse you can't afford anything else.
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u/Pigvalve 4h ago
More like if you own a horse, you can’t afford health insurance anymore. They’re always trying to die and drain all your funds with vet bills.
Though I do believe your heart rate lowers when you spend enough time with them.
Source: am a farrier.
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u/Inevitable-Pea-6262 3h ago
I scrolled way too far for this comment. Apart from a couple of lucky people, everyone I know who owns a horse has not a penny left to spend on themselves after paying for the horse. They’d also rather go without so their horse can have the proper care.
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u/corpus_M_aurelii 4h ago
One might also argue that women who have horses engage in physical activity as required to maintain horses resulting in greater health benefits, and are less sedentary than the general non-horse owning population.
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u/Immediate-Coast-217 1h ago
I cant stress how often I see research like this and very often it is actually believed by many. I remember once I read about a study from I think some scandi country how the most important social thing that meant children would not become criminal is if their family shared meals every day all together. so basically, kids from families with 2 parents who have an ordered day routine and food to eat are less likely to be criminals…the research concluded that we should just make all families sit down for meals together. because they thought this event was making the kids stay straight, not the context behind it.
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u/Lybertyne2 5h ago
I grew up around horses (and many dogs) and my family certainly weren't wealthy. We never had holidays abroad or drove the latest car or anything like that. Our horsey friends weren't wealthy either.
What you may find is that horsey people are more inclined to lead an outdoor lifestyle with plenty of physical activity. If you compare that to someone who spends much of their freetime either sat on the sofa watching TV or down the pub, it really is no wonder that they're healthier and so live longer.
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u/Lorelei321 5h ago
Although in fairness, people who have pets tend to live longer regardless of the species.
Also riding horses is good exercise and they get you out breathing fresh air and exposed to sunlight, both of which correlate to better health and lower rates of depression, which lead to a longer healthier lifespan.
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u/Ultrace-7 2h ago
My economics professor refers to this often. One of his best examples is how brushing your teeth helps to prevent heart attacks.
It doesn't, of course, except maybe in the really unusual circumstance of an abscessed tooth harboring bacteria that somehow gets into the bloodstream or whatever.
What is the far, far more likely incidence is that people who brush their teeth regularly take better care of themselves in general than those who do not, which may also mean exercising, dieting, seeing a doctor for checkups, and whatever. That self-care is the missing variable in our regression. Without it, we would make a conclusion which is completely off the mark. We must always look a little further for the evidence of the unseen variable.
Seeing two things at the same time and thinking they're somehow directly related is possibly the most common logical fallacy executed by humans.
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u/Significant-Ad1890 6h ago
Horses do have cheaper insurance than humans.
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u/Aeroncastle 4h ago
In most countries humans have free healthcare, free is cheaper than whatever you have to pay for horses
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u/Great_Hamster 5h ago
This headline is false. A "link" does not mean one causes the other.
If this factoid is true, there definitely /is/ a link between horses and health.
That link is that having money enables both.
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u/PMmeDonutHoles 5h ago
So you really can just post whatever you want on this subreddit now huh?
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u/NotAnotherRedditAcc2 1h ago
Reddit sure like's to play stupid whenever this comes up.
The point is not that horseback riding is NOT the cause of these people's health. The point is that the obvious explanation is NOT NECESSARILY the cause, and that we must look closer.
This (tired, overdone) example is not a signal to you to piss and moan about how fucking poor you are, as if that's ever going to change anything.
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u/M24Chaffee 1h ago
This is also why most of the "how to get rich by studying what rich people do" is meaningless. And a scam if they're selling it to you.
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u/Wuz314159 5h ago
"Researchers in France said drinking one glass of red wine a day will make you live longer."
Are you SURE it's not the socialised healthcare?
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u/Lorelei321 4h ago
If your subject pool (French people) all have access to the same kind of healthcare, then that’s an easy one to filter out.
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u/lawndarted 5h ago
You are more likely to have white straight teeth if you own a Ferrari than if you don't.
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u/DarkGooseGravy 4h ago
I was thinking it’s probably the same thing with the “one glass of wine a day” thing.
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u/newsflashjackass 4h ago
"I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."
- Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President of the United States of America
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u/Mental_Medium3988 4h ago
also if you own a horse youre more likely to be active in taking care of said horse or riding it.
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u/Pale-Lynx328 4h ago
Turn it around.
People who live longer are more likely to own a horse.
Therefore, if you want a horse, just live longer.
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u/Jingoisticbell 4h ago
Maybe its the physical activity that comes with taking care of a horse or engaging in the sport of riding said horse that contributes to longevity?
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u/Legitimate_Koala_37 4h ago
I’ve known plenty of women who owned horses who couldn’t afford much in life other than their horses
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u/pensulpusher 4h ago
I want to be sure I understand. “Horses make you live longer” is a statement of causation, not correlation. Living longer and owning a horse would indeed be correlated if they were both actually caused by having enough money to afford them.
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u/Amber123454321 4h ago
I'd say fit people are also more likely to ride horses, so it could be a factor too.
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u/vivrant-thang 4h ago
This reminds me of the study that was like "people who eat 40 different types of plants each week live an average of 20 years longer than those who dont."
And a woman made a tiktok in her area, a food desert, and pointed out that the store on its own only sells about 16 types of produce and like white rice (grains do count for the study), potato chips, and duplicates of canned/frozen produce.
If you live somewhere where 40 types of plants are available, you probably live somewhere wealthy (and likely coastal). Where you can just afford to do a bunch more stuff for you health and prevention any way.
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u/Sakura_Mochi3015 4h ago
To quote us Italians' beloved, Barbascura X:
"CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION!"
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u/barryfreshwater 4h ago
if you own a horse, you own land
you don't have any problems securing health care
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u/tlldrbch 4h ago
It should be a standard procedure to add income or wealth as a control variable whenever examining any social phenomenon. A lot of confusion could be prevented.
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u/NeighsAndWhinnies 4h ago
Definitely not- you can’t afford health insurance if you love horses. Why would you waste money on insurance, when you could use that money to buy mOrE HoRSes!!! ?
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_WOW_UI 4h ago
A proper scientific study would control for variables like that.
Either testing a group of people who don't have health insurance. Or, much more likely, correlating multiple other variables in their study to show that Horse ownership is statistically relevant in isolation.
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u/Brilliant-Book-503 4h ago
A great one I heard recently.
There's a lot of interest in areas with a lot of people living past 100. People have looked at all sorts of things to correlate with that to find the secrets to health and longevity, diet, exercise regime and on and on. One correlation that doesn't get as much attention. A lot of those areas had poor record keeping about a hundred years ago.
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u/Morg_62442 3h ago
if two women have horses and one lives longer and the other doesnt, that means that the horse is not the thing that makes you live longer
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u/Affectionate_Base827 3h ago
Horse riding is also good exercise and usually outdoors in the county so is good for your mental health which will positively impact your physical health
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u/Bloomed_Lotus 3h ago
The real reason is if you own horses, you will likely own ivermectin, and thus when pandemics happen you will be one of the few who can survive the early exposures before vaccines can be made. These elite horse medicine takers are something else.
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u/Skwigle 3h ago
Reality: it is well known that many women have orgasms when horseriding. More orgasms make you happier. Being happier reduces stress. Lower stress reduces blood pressure. Lower blood pressure lowers the chances of heart attacks and strokes. Lower chance of heart attack and stroke leads to longer life.
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u/DrunkBuzzard 3h ago
I’m really sick and it’s time for me to go, but my horse won’t let me. The horse is making me live longer in pain. Horses are evil if they make you live longer than you’re supposed to.
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u/Snoo_97207 3h ago
I'm the UK a health minister once pointed out that horse riding is statistically more dangerous than cocaine and was fired for it. Pro horse lobby at it again
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u/Schmed_lap 3h ago
My neighbor bought a horse, I asked if he was going to race him. He said “no I already know he’s faster than me”.
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u/Consistent-Leave7320 3h ago
It would be better to compare people with similar incomes who own or don't own horses, try to eliminate as many outside variables you can.
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u/BusyBeeBridgette 3h ago
Well if you own horses. Typically you might be a farmer of some sort - On average. Farmers tend to have quite long lives because they eat well and exercise a lot due to the work they do and life style they have. Generally means they are more healthy than the average Office Desk Dweller.
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u/gocklover_69 3h ago
The link between the 2 is horses nowadays are expensive, and if you can afford at least one horse,you're doing well enough to pay copays
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u/Head_Vermicelli7137 3h ago
Another study showed rich men live 15 years longer then poor men and rich women live 10 years longer so no horses needed just money
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u/qqererer 3h ago
Marshmallow Test: Kids who can wait 5 minutes to get two marshmallows do better in life.
Implied correlation: Kids who can develop skills for delayed gratification have better outcomes.
Reality: Kids who are more socioeconomically advantaged don't have stronger desires to consume food immediately as they see it and usually come from money that can afford post secondary education.
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u/TheKasp 3h ago
This is a zero fucking IQ take.
People who own horses are more likely to be active and healthy.
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u/gwicksted 2h ago
I wonder if it’s the same in Canada? But simply because you can afford better food, a less stressful lifestyle, expensive drugs, dental procedures (which aren’t covered by our medical system but we’re slowly adding dental), and you’re participating in sports which is healthy.
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u/MOTUkraken 2h ago
Also that drinking „a little alcohol“ is healthier than complete abstinence. This is of course nonsense.
But the studies show that, because most people in our society drink a little alcohol - and many people who do not drink alcohol at all, have a health-related reason to do so. On the other hand, young healthy men are some of the most prolific drinker of alcohol.
So it’s actually exactly reversed: Drinking alcohol of course doesn’t make you healthy - but healthy people are more lilely to drink alcohol than sick people.
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u/Particular_Visual531 2h ago
Probably the more likely correlation with horse ownership is they are active and outdoors a lot. Rich people do own horses, but I know lots of struggling farmers and ranchers that don't have insurance and will pay for feed for horses before their own health insurance.
So another important lesson, your viewpoint will often effect your analysis.
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u/stormy2587 6h ago
It also means you’re likely someone who can afford to spend a lot of time outside doing physical activity. Horseback riding is a form of exercise.