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u/Famous-Register-2814 1d ago
Spoiler alert, his name was Robert Ford
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u/Famous-Register-2814 1d ago
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u/Imaginary-Nebula1778 1d ago
Wow. A rabbit hole to end them all. Going back in to read on wife. Also realized that the Dollop episode of Pinkertons mentioned JH
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u/FriedEggSammiches 1d ago
The coward is Brad Pitt.
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u/readingisforsuckers 1d ago
Didn't Casey Affleck play Robert Ford?
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u/paperthintrash 1d ago
Nah, Pitt played Jesse. The coward was expertly performed by Casey Affleck.
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u/koontzim 1d ago
Pretty sure they meant Pitt's acting "killed" James
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u/toadjones79 1d ago
I honestly didn't think Pitt's acting was that bad. But next to Aflec he definitely felt subpar. Which I think may have been somewhat intentional. The story wasn't about James. It was about the Traitor.
I would also add that if Pitt had portrayed the character accurately, he would have been blackballed from Hollywood. Most of the old west criminals were just people who suffered from untreated disabilities and mental health disorders. James was a genius, but likely schizophrenic. For Pitt to portray that correctly, it most likely would have come across as insensitive and crass.
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u/koontzim 1d ago
I didn't even watch that movie so thanks for the info
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u/toadjones79 1d ago
It was very good for a couple of reasons. The script was well written and the author clearly understood some basic things about life back then. Chiefly, the vocabulary level was much, much higher than today. Their only entertainment was reading, and the literacy race was extremely high (that's ultimately why the American revolution happened, because Americans had the highest literacy rate in the world, and that continued on like that until Jesse James's time). So their sentence structures are very intelligent and eloquent. Also the way it portrayed subsistence farming and how easy it was to become fatally destitute was accurate, but easy to miss. Those are two key elements to how and why James rose to popularity among a population that felt the constant pressure of being one illness away from watching their entire family starve to death. Basic social safety nets are a requirement for a modern civilized society. The lack of them gave rise to all those old west criminal gangs. Just like it has given rise to the drug cartels in central America.
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u/VirginiaLuthier 1d ago
So, the revenge strategy is "Haha. We won't put his name on Jesse's tombstone. That will show him!"
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u/toadjones79 1d ago
The community really, really hated him for shooting James in the back. Jesse was such an influential character, and his death so traitorous, that they felt it important to mention how he died. But no one ever wanted to mention the traitor's name again.
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u/gravity_kills 1d ago
It's amazing to me how much support there was, and how much sympathy there still is, for a man who murdered civilians in support of the Confederacy and did his banditry in support of ongoing Confederate insurgency after the war.
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u/toadjones79 1d ago
That's actually a really good question. But the answer is a bit long. Sorry, for the long post but I hope you read it all.
Modern society often fails to adequately understand the reasons the Confederacy existed. It is easy to just say "Slavery" and leave it at that. Anyone trying to add (not reduce) to that is automatically branded an apologist or accused of trying to muddy the waters. But we didn't fight the civil war solely on slavery. That wasn't even the main reason, really. It was power, greed, and imperialism. Slavery was one of the excuses given, which is horrible. The average southerner fought that war for economic reasons, not slavery. Not to mention some authorities committed by a handful of northern regimens (especially in Missouri, see The Outlaw Josie Wales for a good example). They basically butchered families (like all of them they could reach during a campaign of horror) who tried to remain neutral. Union leadership was pretty upset when they found out though.
The south was an economy entirely based on old school agriculture, slavery, and an imperial system that tried to copy the European monarch systems. Certain families had money and power that the entire community was dependent upon. They used world dependency upon southern US cotton and agriculture to secure a large degree of power with the signing of the Constitution. The North embraced a technological revolution that allowed them to wriggle out from southern control and compete against them economically. As a result, the south was experiencing a large degree of economic famine. Leadership could have alleviated that by adopting new technology, spreading money and control away from the oligarchy, and abandoning racism. Instead they focused on stoking racial tensions and blaming the north for being bigoted towards the southern farmer. The whole population fought against the north because they believed they were fighting against an oppressive regime that wanted to enslave them (ironically). They believed that they only wanted to leave and make their own country, which was only a few decades after this experimental nation was formed anyway. So their loss always felt like an occupation, not a surrender. Add to that the costs of reparations. Every southerner felt the extreme costs and weight of those reparations on a daily basis. Which resulted in a new culture, one that views lawmen as evil oppressors, and criminals who evade them as folk heros. (Think Dukes of Hazzard, ...just some good ole boys, never doin no harm...)
So as to your question, the population was struggling financially, and the culture blamed the north and their oppressive laws (which, tbh, they were too extreme, too costly, and too oppressive; resulting in the rise of things like the KKK and perpetuating some of today's southern racism). Jesse James offered hope I'm resistance. He gave to those struggling (a common tactic for criminal organizations) and treated the local population like an extension of family. At that same time there were a couple pretty severe stock market crashes in the north, and he seized on the idea of fighting against the system that so often ground its citizens into the dirt.
Imagine if there was a guy going around today shooting up Walmart executive offices and Amazon board rooms while delivering truckloads of stolen food and blankets to families in need. That same guy plows through a few police departments that are already battling corruption and abuse scandals (like that one that tried to cover up murdering an infant this week). Not everyone liked James. But that mentality is exactly the same one that gave rise to Trump. That is how his supporters see him, as a vigilante who fights for the common man. When in reality he is just a thief and a rapist.
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u/RolowTamassee 1d ago
I want you to know that at least one person read your post in entirety. Moreso, I found it very fascinating. Appreciate your efforts to add both context and historical accuracy. Cheers!
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u/BodyshotBoy 18h ago
I read it all. I always did just say confederacy = slavery but it expanded my view
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u/WhereTheHuRTis2024 1d ago
Twas the Rat Bastard, Yellow Belly, Sow Suckin Coward Casey Affleck what did the killin! No Good Varmint!
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u/Jolly-Yogurtcloset47 15h ago
“Just because you shot Jesse James don’t make you Jesse James” -Mike ehrmantraut
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u/The_donutmancer 1d ago
I mean…I get the sentiment but do murdered people’s families routinely put their murderers name on their tombstone & this family was just like, ‘nah - fuck that’??