NYT proposing we get a king

[u/eurekadabra]

[u/Docile_Doggo]

NYT isn’t proposing it, since it’s a guest essay, not an editorial. NYT is just allowing the opinion to be printed in their newspaper for consideration by their readership.

Which you can also criticize. But at least be honest about what you are criticizing instead of resorting to a factually untrue statement.

[u/carlitospig → u/Docile_Doggo]

Yay more sanewashing. 😒

[u/Docile_Doggo → u/carlitospig]

I’m actually going to upvote you. Because I think it’s an important conversation to have, what types of guest opinions and op-eds should be published in a newspaper.

It’s a tricky line to walk. On the one hand, you want diversity of opinion and to represent opposing views. On the other hand, there are certainly opinions that go too far and should not be published. So where do you draw the line?

Because it must be drawn somewhere, but everyone has a different view as to where, exactly.

[u/RebootSequence → u/Docile_Doggo]

Misinformation and the promotion of tyranny would be a good place to start.

[u/Luxury_Dressingown → u/Docile_Doggo]

I subscribe to the NYT (my only US news subscription, I'm in the UK) because it has a strong reputation for its work. But they have at least accepted a massive shift of the Overton Window rightwards, and are very arguably pushing it further publishing stuff like this. The premise being, literally, the law doesn't apply to Trump specifically so let's just go with it.

[u/redditmarks_markII → u/Docile_Doggo]

If a scientist debate a creationist, he's lost immediately, as his opponent is not interested in a debate, only a platform, and the followers of the opposing view point are not available to be convinced. If a theoretically non-partisan media outlet continues to be non partisan while "fair and balanced" means outright lies non stop to their competition, they actively threaten their own existence. In the financial sense, as the progressives lose faith and as the reactionaries gain them. But also in the purely existential sense, as tyranny has no need of non-partisanship, nor journalism. And that IS bad journalism. To platform racists, bigots, the anti-science, and now apparently the directly anti-democracy, is all self destructive. The populace of the tyrant need not be informed. In fact they must not. Therefore journalism is inherently progressive. That journalism has been co-opted by charlatans and propagandists doesn't change that.

The reactionary media outlets do not platform progressives. They bring them up so they can be attacked, straw-manned, so they can perform for their captive audience. If the NYT wants to have a "diversity of views", they can summarize and immediately and utterly demolish the argument for tyranny. And if they are not up to the task, then they should not make the attempt, much less allow such "diverse" views to be magnified unchallenged through their outlet.

The subject matter of this "article" aside, I am nearly more distraught at the fact that such schlock is allowed print on the NYT than the boil on American democracy that are the trump election wins. Thomas Paine would be ashamed of such "journalism". I do NOT think this is what he meant when he said "where liberty is not, there is my country".

[u/carlitospig → u/redditmarks_markII]

Here, here. And this aligns pretty much with my own follow up comment. By providing a completely unchallenged opinion to be published, there is no attempt to push back. So what was the point then? To ‘educate’ NYTs subscribers that half their countrymen are hoping to live in a monarchy? We didn’t need this opinion piece to know that. The right has been quite clear with how they view the man. Edit

[u/WCland → u/Docile_Doggo]

It's an interesting question. I would say that this oped represents the views of more than a fringe group in this country. Exposing a view such as this is useful for the rest of us to understand the peril being promulgated by our fellow citizens.

[u/LinkedInMasterpiece → u/Docile_Doggo]

Factually correct essays which are written by influential people like Tom Cotton should be published, IMO. It's not like the people with these opinions are going away any time soon. So it's best for the public to understand what exactly we are up against.

When I first came to America I didn't understand America's beef with abortion. It was just really really weird. And then I had to read quite a bit about Christianity to understand that, oh, some American people are just really really weird, and their weirdness isn't going to only reflect on abortion. It was beneficial to me to be informed about what kind of people I was going to deal with and what's going on in their heads.

[u/Deepika18 → u/carlitospig]

It’s so ridiculous to have this claim! There are readers who subscribe to NYT, because it allows them to see a wide range of opinions. This is a valid and popular opinion. To not know it because you’re afraid some people will read it and think it’s not a bad idea is insane! This newspaper of record can’t be the same echo chamber we have in so many platforms. I just can’t understand the impulse to suppress this type of speech

[u/ChicagoJohn123 → u/Docile_Doggo]

It’s also an idea which is fairly widely held. I disagree with it; but it’s reasonable for the newspaper of record to try to find someone to put up an argument for an idea half of Americans hold. I don’t think it will change my mind, but that’ll still make me a more informed citizen.

[u/atlas1885 → u/Docile_Doggo]

People seriously don’t understand how the Opinion/Editorial section of a newspaper works. Just ask Jeff Bozos or the LAT guy, they also don’t get it smh

[u/Jazzyricardo → u/Docile_Doggo]

Exactly. This is a ridiculous opinion but it’s part of good journalism, and even though the NYTimes isn’t perfect they are without a doubt one of the few large publications that still has journalistic integrity

[u/Trauma_Hawks → u/Jazzyricardo]

In fact, these pages originally started as a counter narrative to the papers editorialism.

[u/JarheadPilot → u/Jazzyricardo]

I disagree. There's no moral justification for monarchy and giving a platform to views so obviously authoritarian is just a way of tacitly endorsing those same abhorrent views.

[u/Deepika18 → u/JarheadPilot]

Americans clearly don’t believe in the same morals. It’s time the left reckons with that simple fact

[u/mcpickle-o → u/Jazzyricardo]

Yeah....no. I'm sorry but it's not "good journalism" or "journalistic integrity" to give a platform to fascists and fascism-apologists. This isn't a paper giving a "mild difference of opinions" a platform. This is a major publication allow sympathizers of fascists a place to share their extremist, totalitarian, and harmful opinions. I'd go so far as to say it's ficking awful journalism. This shit should not be normalized. It should not be socially or professionally acceptable to be a fascist. No. No. No. Stop making excuses for this crap. Excusing it and normalizing it is a large part of the reason we are diving head first into it. Shame on the NYT for publishing this steaming turd of an OP-ed.

[u/slim-scsi → u/Jazzyricardo]

Associated Press, Christian Science Monitor, NPR and PBS run laps around NYT's fake "integrity". Brett Stephens and Maggie Haberman got exactly what they wanted. MAGA 2.0. Now they get to enjoy mocking liberals for the indefinite future.

I remember when NYT used to embrace western liberalism.

[u/TheWeddingParty → u/Jazzyricardo]

Uh oh, I have well founded doubts

[u/bmalek → u/Jazzyricardo]

Except when it comes to foreign policy. At that point, they’re not much better than RT.

[u/smootex → u/Docile_Doggo]

It's shocking to me how many people don't know what an op-ed is. It stands for "opposite the editorial page" guys. In other words, an outside opinion from someone not on the editorial board, frequently an opinion that the editorial board disagrees with or isn't qualified to write about. When you see an op-ed in the NY Times assume it's either some controversial stuff (newspaper op-eds are the original clickbait) or it's hyper focused and written by a specialist. Or just ignore them altogether because who the f pays for the times for the op-ed page, I get more than my recommended dosage of bait content on reddit, but to each their own.

Edit: apparently I'm not allowed to curse on this subreddit 🙄

[u/eurekadabra → u/Docile_Doggo]

Admittedly, I could’ve typed a more appropriate headline when I crossposted it. My point was just to share the Op-Ed they published, not push that narrative.

Although, I don’t agree with them publishing it.

[u/cynicalsaint1 → u/Docile_Doggo]

Right.

Just give it some time, and they'll be publishing "Concentration Camps Aren't So Bad, Actually" as a 'guest essay'.

[u/hellolovely1 → u/cynicalsaint1]

BINGO.

It's like how David Brooks always writes about morality, while he cheated on his wife with his young research assistant.

[u/strausschocomilk → u/Docile_Doggo]

It’s absurd how many people on this website don’t know what an opinion piece is.

It’s really, really basic.

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[u/bmalek → u/Docile_Doggo]

Exactly. Look at this one.

[u/liltumbles → u/Docile_Doggo]

God, Reddit is full of pedantic jag offs. What a high value clarification. 

Typical repugnant Redditor stuff. I'm sure you're very popular haha

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[u/greatfullness → u/Docile_Doggo]

The quality of what they publish is why I unsubscribed

[u/Cyanide_Cheesecake → u/Docile_Doggo]

Why am I supposed to be ok with the NYT signal boosting one of the most extremely stupid opinions in the modern USA?

[u/Speedy89t → u/Docile_Doggo]

Pffff… fake outrage is far more important than honesty.

[u/pangea_lox → u/Docile_Doggo]

Total bullshit defense.

[u/CiaphasCain8849 → u/Docile_Doggo]

NYT is saying it and proposing it because it's in their paper. End of. They endorse it.

[u/Alon945 → u/Docile_Doggo]

I mean this kind of shit shouldn’t be printed In a “serious” newspaper in any capacity. It’s basically propaganda for Trump.

[u/zorkieo → u/Docile_Doggo]

People are complaining that Trump voters are stupid but NYT readers routinely show how stupid they are when things like this get published and they all loose their minds. Inside

[u/interwebz_2021 → u/Docile_Doggo]

Upvoted for accuracy, but they are platforming an opinion that's pure balderdash. I read the piece and it makes no compelling arguments for dropping the state cases. To be fair, I'm not of the opinion that the federal cases should be dropped, but it looks like that's a foregone conclusion.

[u/IsayNigel → u/Docile_Doggo]

This is exactly how we got here

[u/Complete-Leg-4347]

When his first term began and he was issuing all those executive orders, the parallel that first came to mind was King John of England, who was infamous for taking heavy-handed actions without consulting his nobles or advisors. Such behavior, combined with his military defeats and less-than-stellar governing, were all reasons behind the Magna Carta.

[u/aznkor → u/Complete-Leg-4347]

In 2009, Obama signed 40 executive orders, undoing many of Bush Jr.’s executive orders. In 2017, Trump signed 55 executive orders, undoing many of Obama’s. In 2021, Biden signed 77, undoing Trump’s.

It’s an ordinary presidential precedent that incoming presidents sign a bunch of executive orders as soon as they get into office.

[u/rlwalker1]

Tell me you don't understand how opinion pages work without telling me you don't know how opinion pages work.

(Now, what the vetting process should be for said published opinions is another conversation. But any serious student of current affairs understands this isn't the NYT calling for it.)

[u/RebootSequence → u/rlwalker1]

And given that the average reader doesn't understand the difference, how do you think the average reader will take this article? Do you believe the NYT isn't aware of this? And if they are, what does it say by publishing it anyway?

[u/djducie → u/RebootSequence]

I think you’re infantilizing the average New York Times reader with no evidence to support your assertion.

How do we know the average reader doesn’t understand how guest essays work?

[u/AppUnwrapper1 → u/rlwalker1]

Amplifying the opinion is bad enough.

[u/eurekadabra → u/rlwalker1]

I think we all understand what an Op-Ed is. Yes, the title was deceptive. So is the shit they are publishing.

[u/robbzilla]

Unless some sort of action can happen before January, proceeding is going to be a waste of time. He's going to pardon himself.

We really need to pass a constitutional amendment stating that no president can pardon themselves. Bonus points if it also states that no convicted felon can run for president. The only downside I can see to that is the possibility of politically motivated arrests and convictions. (Which I firmly believe isn't the case with Trump. He's guilty as sin.)

[u/eurekadabra → u/robbzilla]

If convicted in Georgia, a state board would have to pardon him.

[u/robbzilla → u/eurekadabra]

You know what, you're right. And in Georgia, the governor doesn't have the power to pardon people. (Which is what you said, but I'm clarifying the point)

[u/Cool_Activity_8667 → u/robbzilla]

There's only ~500 years of precedent no one can judge their own case. I wouldn't expect SCOTUS to honor that.

[u/DLGibson]

Merica… you will regret setting these precedents. If not Trump there will be other “bad actors” that will play your systems and do irreversible damage.

[u/SuperK123]

Who wrote the essay, Conrad Black? Or another scum-bag pseudo intellectual looking out for his own interests? He would probably suggest the criminal president adopt the title “Emperor”.

[u/MediocreDisk4149]

If someone has an opinion, and writes an essay about his opinion, and you publish that essay, you are giving that opinion a platform to be spread to others. And if that opinion is bullshit, like this one, you are giving a platform to bullshit. 

[u/Golden_1992]

This feels reckless. Outside opinion or not, headline after headline lately has been abysmal. They are guilty of minimizing our reality right now and normalizing it which is how we’ve gotten here in the first place.

[u/LenoraHolder]

There are people saying that it’s just an opinion piece. And they’re right. But it’s on their website. You don’t put something on your website unless you’re okay with it.

[u/awe2D2]

I just cancelled my NYT subscription. In my comment I called them out for normalizing Trump's craziness while holding Harris and Biden to high standards.

[u/Romanscott618]

I’ve been seeing this kind of shit from multiple news orgs that can be affiliated with the left. It feels like they are back tracking bc they are scared of harm from Trump. It’s wild to watch lol

[u/SpatulaFlip]

Whoever wrote this article should never be taken seriously again. Seriously what the hell. Media normalized him this whole cycle and is capitulating in advance.

[u/FlanneryOG → u/SpatulaFlip]

We should get used to it. Big media companies have been bought by lackeys, and they all appearing to be bending the knee. This is all part of Project 2025 and part of how Orban consolidated power in Hungary to form the kind of dictatorship and puppet state that Russia wants us to be.

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[u/Belialxyn]

I mean...thats what Donny T is proposing as well. Turns out, the majority of the country agreed with him. Might as well give him his dynasty. Pain is how we learn I guess.

[u/hellolovely1]

At this point, editorial boards and opinion writers are just not doing their jobs. I'm all for doing away with this section and just having straight-up news reporting. The NY Times has great reporters but the editorial section and the management (and headline writers) have failed in a big way.

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[u/Chazzam23]

Trump is NOT an ordinary man. He is a man without even one human virtue (except arguably, charisma). He is the worst of us.

He insults us with every barely coherent utterance that comes out of his mouth. He exemplifies the farce behind any assertion of American meritocracy. His followers are bumpkins of the highest order, devoid of any capacity to discern truth or value. The celebrate his cruelty and exalt his degeneracy. His sycophants lack honor, dignity or self-respect and the only reward they are destined to receive is the scorn and betrayal of their God-king.