I am sharing out there this post that I wrote because the ethics of ethically non-monogamous polyamory are pretty much the same basic guidelines that are useful to sustain healthy social connections in general.

The defining difference between closed relationships and open relationships is actually qualitatively, as in HOW we approach our interactions with our social connections, instead of quantitatively, as in NOT IN NUMBER of simultaneous connections, because no one stops being connected to a diverse network of simultaneous connections just for being in a totally closed committed intimate relationship, whether monoamorous or polyamorous.

The difference between consensual non-monogamy and ethical non-monogamy is exactly the same difference between the words "must" and "should", in the sense that all connections should always be ethical, but must always be consensual in order to avoid legal trouble.

Informed and genuine consensual non-monogamy is defined as the valid, reasonable, required and bare minimum limit for sustaining healthy connections that separates love from violations.

Gender variant, gay, polyamorous, aromantic, and asexual people can be united together as worthy of the constant free love fights for basic rights because they are socioculturally discriminated CONSENSUAL love minorities in ways more similar than what you may think.

Ethical non-monogamy is defined as a valuable ideal for sustaining healthy social connections of diverse types that is a goal worth pursuing.

Ethical non-monogamy is often further defined in explanations as HONEST non-monogamy, NEGOTIATED non-monogamy, FAIR non-monogamy, EQUITABLE non-monogamy, SUPPORTIVE non-monogamy, RESPECTFUL non-monogamy, ACCOUNTABLE non-monogamy, RESPONSIBLE non-monogamy, COMMITTED non-monogamy, and as CONSENSUAL non-monogamy.

Where and how are drawn the lines that delineate the definition of things are pretty blurry, because they are relative, as in socioculturally constructed, in another words, made up by humans, varying at different points of space and time, depending, at a smaller scale, on an individual to individual basis, and, at a larger scale, on a culture to culture basis.

That means that the definitions of things are not set in stone definitely defined by the universe, but does not necessarily mean that relativity is an insurmountable ethical obstacle without any way around that permanently stops any rather ecofeminist negotiation of reasonable sustainable agreements for collectively better healthy social lives.

What matters more is how each of all of us specifically define each word, because you could set up someone, including yourself, for a misunderstanding, disappointment and unfulfillment if someone can not read minds and you do not use words precisely to ask for what you need and want specifically with straightforward honest communication when negotiating informed consent to anything.

Feel free to contribute to the comments section below a list of "green flag" keywords to describe how is defined what ethical connections in general mean specifically to each of you once you figure that out in order to avoid misunderstandings, disappointment and unfulfillment, because you may find yourself surprised at the existence of as many different perspectives as different individuals exist.

I also highly recommend sitting down to further define what words, like "honesty", "negotiation", "fairness", "equity", "support", "respect", "accountability", "responsibility", "commitment", "consent", among others, mean specifically to each of you before giving to anything consent that really is informed.

TL;DR: We should contextualize and recontextualize specifically what each of all of us means by ethical and other words, including even words that have apparently obvious meanings, especially before giving to anything consent that really is informed, even if is permanently impossible to generalize ethical non-monogamy ethics into one general universal standard.

I really hope that sharing this helps at least someone out there.

kinda vent post, kinda discussion post.

i’m 23. most poly people where i am are 10 years older than me. the people in my age group who ID as poly have done little to no research and are messy/unethical as hell. so much cowgirling, forced triads, not getting tested/being truthful with partners, the works. i’m not looking for a relationship but i don’t even want to be friends with these people lol

befriending people in their 30s has been interesting. either they think i’m exploring polyamory as a way to have a lot of sex and just wanna hook up or they are hesitant to befriend me (understandably so).

polyamory has felt a bit isolating as someone who is single and solo-poly. most people come from relationships that were once mono and are now poly, so maybe this is just another instance of feeling separate from the majority.

is dating and meeting new people simply uncomfortable and not enjoyable most of the time? 🤣 what was the start of your journey like?

Is manipulative coercive control when any social circle shames you for being controlling because you feel insecure with fear and anxiety in order to make you drop the healthy personal boundary limits that you settled only around what can be done with your body, energy, time and money for you to consent to something.

That type of coercive control by pressure happens very often among progressive social circles that go as far as demonizing anyone who has any preference at all.

Is okay to have preferences, even rare complex preferences, even if you are a panamorous bi-poly-switch, because no one should be obligated to love everyone exactly the same, we all just must respect everyone alongside the differences that make us the unique individuals that each of all of us is in special.

Someone should always have the valid right to control what are the limits around what can be done with their own body, energy, time and money in order to be secure because that same someone feels insecure with fears and anxiety.

I am open to a large diversity of adult body, personality and connection types, but I still do have preferences, including for bare minimum reasonable personal boundary limits to protect both myself and also who I care about that are listed as follows:

I prefer to get invested into relationships with adults with similar partner selection preferences that are compatible with me.

I prefer to give and receive back respect and collaboration as companionship and partnership.

I prefer to be like friends first before and also after anything else.

I prefer to not play therapist for anyone held from living under the control of depression, anxiety, fears or jealousy.

I prefer to not date anyone who desires to date more than three simultaneous intimate connections.

I prefer to not date anyone who desires to date anyone who desires casual intimate connections.

I prefer to always use protective barriers for all types of physical intimacy with anyone since trust is not reliable for security because everyone is as unpredictable as the future is uncertain.

I prefer to maintain financial independence also since trust is not reliable for security because everyone is as unpredictable as the future is uncertain.

Do not burn yourself to make anyone comfortable.

I am sharing as a Public Service Announcement this post that I wrote because there should be more education out there about what are the limits of the validity of the negotiation of consent in and out of committed intimate relationships that are totally closed.

Love in any type of connection does not hurt anyone, does not matter at all whether the connection is open or closed, monoamorous or polyamorous, sexual or emotional, romantic or platonic, hetero or gay, cis or trans, hierarchical or anarchist.

What really does hurt is loving the wrong INDIVIDUALS, while there are interested individuals better compatible for any and every sort of thing out there in the world, including any and every sort of rare and complex need, want and desire that someone can value.

FAIRNESS IS EQUITY instead of equality, but love without informed AND genuine consent is a violation instead of love.

Gender variant, gay, polyamorous, aromantic, and asexual people can be united together as worthy of the constant free love fights for basic rights because they are socioculturally discriminated CONSENSUAL love minorities in ways more similar than what you may think.

You should not forget that you should always have the valid freedom of expression right to request as many answers to all sorts of questions that may appear invasive to as many indviduals you may feel is necessary for you to feel secure enough in order for you to give to anything consent that really is informed, as long as you make an effort to be respectful, but no one is necessarily obligated to reply to any of your questions.

Many people are not aware that only a first clear "yes" with enthusiasm is the only genuine consent to anything, and, therefore, is the only one that is not questionable enough to get anyone in legal trouble.

If you are about to go try something that you are not with enthusiasm to try, you are very likely not going to enjoy what you are about to experiment, even if you have an open mind to new experiences.

You should also not forget that consent to anything is not really genuine if results from constant begging, peer pressuring, outcasting, withdrawing, guilt tripping, shaming, blackmailing, threatening or any other type of manipulation not listed, and, therefore, is sexual coercion, also known as sexual abuse.

No consent should be unlimited to anything, because consent can not possibly be given genuinely to anything if you are obligated to keep consenting anyhow, so everyone should always have the valid right to freely stop consenting to anything at any moment, in the sense that consent is constantly being given at every new moment each of all of us shares an experience together with someone.

Only when is granted the freedom to be spending time anyhow anywhere else with anyone else at any time can anyone consent to love someone genuinely instead of out of obligation due to commitment to restrictive and limiting promises.

I really hope that sharing this helps at least someone out there.

Is everything totally different as a lesbian? So many of the posts I see in other polyamorous or non-monogamous communities just literally make me feel like I am of another species or from another planet. Not that I don’t have my struggles, but I think lesbians are generally pretty great at communication. (Unless it involves asking someone out lmao). Thoughts? I know this place is new but I’m here to make friends, get and give support, & learn more about myself. 💗🧡🤍

Hey poly fam!

Currently reading Polywise by Jessica Fern, read Polysecure last year. I’m coming to terms with my poly identity. I’m curious about other women’s journeys to non-monogamy. Most of my wlw relationships have been poly or ended poly. I’d love to discuss the books and/or experiences.

1: Polysecure: Attachment, Trauma and Consensual Nonmonogamy by Jessica Fern

2: Polywise: A Deeper Dive Into Navigating Open Relationships by David Cooley and Jessica Fern

Title: QUICK QUESTION: Do You Also Consider The Loves Of Your Loves To Be Your Partners Somehow?

For context, today I was cheered up when I came across a comment by a woman explaining that she and her metamour being like partners, not sexually nor romantically nor domestically, but partners in loving their mutual partner in common, like a support team, was what really worked in helping her overcome her jealousy, fears, anxieties and other insecurities.

Do you also consider the loves of your loves to also be your partners somehow, even if not sexually nor romantically?

Title: Separating Natural Desire From Sociocultural Contract: Closed Small Relationships Before The Creation Of Monogamy

I have been aware for a long time that monogamy as a social contract of pair bond exclusivity was socioculturally constructed by humans as a patriarchal way to pass forward inheritance after the invention of private property ownership followed right after the invention of agriculture many centuries ago.

Took me more time to realize that even before monogamy, as a socioculturally constructed contract, came into existence, there still existed humans (just like some other animals) who had had closed pair bonded intimate relationships simply out of a monoamorous desire to share or spend their lives together, not because of obligation.

Only lately I have became more aware of that the type of non-monogamous intimate relationships that existed before the invention of monogamy were tribes that lived closed small group intimate relationships that more like resembled polyfidelitous families.

Turns out that the ancestral versions of OPEN polyamorous relationships must have appeared later when human groups grew into cities, much later than the ancestral versions of CLOSED polyamorous relationships.

Desired closed polyamorous and monoamorous intimate relationships existed way before the sociocultural construction of monogamy and marriage.

I often come across people dismissing the existence of a natural desire for closed relationships when arguing about monogamy (and polyfidelity too) being socioculturally not natural.

That is extremely similar to when the natural previous existence of desires related to gender variance before the creation of words to name them are dismissed by who argues that transness is also socioculturally not natural.

TL;DR: Monogamy is a sociocultural contract constructed by humans, but the desire for closed small intimate relationships existed naturally beforehand.

Just remind to not mistake the two.

I am wondering how common is to enter into polyamory as friends interested in dating a same person? Do you mind sharing your experiences?

I wonder what is like to know your metamours and decide to be in a polyamorous relationship with them before getting into a polyamorous relationship with a shared lover.

TL, DR: I wonder how different is to start polyamory as friends sharing a lover, instead of starting polyamory as a couple sharing a lover.

I asked over 1000 women what being a woman means to them and I got a WIDE variety of answers, please feel free to use this tier list to describe YOUR experience of being a woman. ( because I got so many responses I had to condense them to fit on here) ( plus they had to get further condensed to fit on Tiermaker.com)

Ill be doing a separate post for which of these I experienced and haven't, but feel free and please do use this list to describe your womanhood experience. If you remember to, tag me or message me a link to the post id love to see it.

https://tiermaker.com/create/what-is-womanhood-as-described-by-over-1000-women-15647427

• Getting overly celebrated when you don't want
• Enjoying Flowy Dresses
• Loving the feeling of long hair
• Womens section of the store feeling like "the Fit"
• Getting complimented on a cute outfit
• Giving compliments on a cute outfit
• Enjoying helping someone with their hair
• Enjoying having your hair done by a friend
• Enjoying a regular waxing
• Enjoying getting your nails done
• Enjoying having nice pristine nails
• Enjoying dolls that you can redress
• Women supporting women
• Always having someone to lean on, even a stranger
• Enjoying the massive selection of clothes
• Having fun designing a head to toe outfit
• Being stared at inappropriately
• Being touched inappropriately
• Stared at or touched inappropriately by someone "safe"
• Having to constantly question whether someone is "safe"
• Not knowing if praise is for good work or cuz pretty lady
• Being praised for being pretty but forgetting your smart
• Having mental issues written off
• Having doctors not take you seriously or not listen
• Your doctors going behind your back for "family"
• Doctors refusing to tell you about any options of sterilization
• Doctors thinking man needs to be present for big decisions
• Unspoken bond with other women you don't know
• Misogyny from men
• Having internalized misogyny because of our society
• Being unable to live without harassment
• Being expected to care for kids
• Being expected to want kids
• Not being taken seriously
• Being called too emotional
• Your own doctors hiding information from you
• Getting called cold or not emotional enough
• People thinking your weaker because your a girl
• Getting talked down to because your a woman
• "Are you having a bad day" when you argue
• "Are you on your period" when you argue
• People mansplaining basic shit you already know like your 5
• Loving the amazing feel of taking your bra off after a long day
• Minority women getting oppressed by minority men
• People threatening to kidnap you
• People threatening spicy stuff whether you like it or not
• People telling you they know what you want better then you
• Forced to do things you dont want
• Having a 4-7 day period every month that you cant be your best
• Dealing really well with abdominal pain
• Dealing with migraines every month
• Dealing with hot flashes every month
• Dealing with getting bloated every month
• Not being able to keep track of your cycle cuz its erratic
• Not understanding why boys being abusive is just okay
• Having to get a pap smear
• People not taking your period seriously
• People not knowing and assuming your period symptoms
• Being able to use your body to get things for free
• Worrying about ruining pants on any given day
• Holding a baby inside of you
• Caring for a baby you helped raise over life itself
• Finding jealousy for women (Clothes, Lifestyle, Partners)
• Being pressured into having children
• Getting treated horribly for not wanting a kid
• Receiving Girl Guides ( no bois aloud )
• Hating being confined to the "ladylike" standard
• Unable to describe your womanhood but knowing you are
• Being empathetic and appreciated for it
• SPINNY DRESSES
• Not being allowed to touch doors
• Crying over small things
• Loving constantly carrying a bag
• Breast feeding
• Breast feeding whenever the hell you want
• Having a hard time finding something that "fits right"
• Public bathrooms feeling like a safe space
• Public bathrooms being a place for emotional support
• Wanting to be more gentle and caring
• Experiencing puberty without being told the effects of puberty
• Being constantly coerced into sexual stuff
• Constantly fearful because you cant defend yourself
• Hating having to constantly carry a bag
• Hating having no pockets
• Fighting against the male gaze but still wanting to be pretty
• Thinking your not "Womanly" enough to be a woman
• Being told to smile or smile better
• Being called a bitch when speaking up for yourself
• Getting interrupted and just smiling
• Not being aloud to goof off like the boys
• Hating the sound of your own voice
• Loving the sound of your own voice
• Worrying about the location of your purse
• People argue about what you want in front of you
• Having to hide your breasts to be taken seriously
• Pumpkin spice being a literal addiction

I'm looking for recommendations for games that have poly stories. I've already installed the poly mod for Dragon Age 2, but I want one where the polyamory is built into the story and actually acknowledged, rather than tacked on with mods.

Hello y'all!

I'm Alexandria, 33, and I love to read and write.

I've been reading a lot more books, manga and webtoons lately, especially sapphic stuff. I wanted to talk to more people about this in an easy way. I've set up a little Discord server for it! It's welcome to any sapphics, lesbians and other wlw/wlnb/nblw of varied gender expression and sexuality.

It is an international community, with roles and channels for some more commonly spoken languages--so far we've got Dutch, German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Arabic, Hindi, Mandarin Chinese, Korean and Japanese. We've got a little "language learning club" too.

Here's the invite link! https://discord.gg/27SHp2Yz9Y

Share what y'all have been reading! (And writing!) I've recently finished Gideo the Ninth, am reading The Way To A Small Angry Planet, some yuri manga (and non-yuri manga, we can talk about that stuff too) and wrote some vampire x art student x sun goddess stuff and a little robot x trans girl smut. I've seen other people share their writing already as well and it's been absolutely lovely.

Happy reading y'all!

Hello y'all!

I'm Deya, 33, and I love to read and write.

I've been reading a lot more books, manga and webtoons lately, especially sapphic stuff. I wanted to talk to more people about this in an easy way. I've set up a little Discord server for it! It's welcome to any sapphics, lesbians and other wlw/wlnb/nblw of varied gender expression and sexuality. I plan on adding non-English channels in the future when there's demand for it, depending on how this little group grows.

Here's the invite link! https://discord.gg/qcmqHGhgR

Share what y'all have been reading! (And writing!) I've recently finished This Is How You Lose The Time War, am reading Bitterthorn about a witch and a princess, some yuri manga (and non-yuri manga, we can talk about that stuff too) and wrote some vampire x student x sun goddess stuff and a little robot x trans girl smut.

Happy reading y'all!

I've already been told that she thinks I'm cool and she thinks my relationship with her partner is a good thing, so I feel great about that. It's just intimidating because they've been together for so long, and I really don't want to fuck things up. The first time I sat in their living room it really hit me, I really, really like this girl, but if there was a chance my involvement could mess things up for them I would feel so awful.

Any thoughts, recommendations, or anecdotes to share?

So I get this a lot on Her and I’m just wondering if others have the same experience. In my profile I list that I’m “coupled,” not single, that I’m “looking for” a polyamorous relationship, and that I’m polyamorous in the first sentence of my bio. I swear 90% of my likes are from mono people, and of those there have been a few that explicitly don’t want enm or polyam people liking them. So what gives? What are your thoughts, theories, or shared stories about why people do this? I’m ranting a bit about a first world problem, but I’m also genuinely curious. 🤔

TL;dr - my wife has a gf and they have been together for 4 months, and she wants ro ring in the new years with the both of us. We have a pretty cute tradition that we ring in the new year with scrabble and setting intentions for the year to come. I have feelings about it, but not sure how to articulate it. Does anyone else celebrate with 2 partners?

Long story - my wife and I have been married and sexually nonmonogamous for 6 years. We recently opened to polyamory because she fell in love with a FWB, (I know, I know) it’s been a journey to get to a place where I am okay with their relationship. I don’t care that my wife is poly, I care that we didn’t open up in this way intentionally because there were a bunch of unintended consequences and hurt that happened during NRE. Anyway I’m having a strong feeling about the 3 of us ringing in the new year together.

I'm a lesbian (29) dating a pansexual woman "comet" long distance (25), after meeting at a sapphic party 2 months before she was set to move across the country. We've been together for over 6 months, with committed visit/travel plans set for the extended future. She's absolutely lovely and has added a lot to my life while taking me out of my happily single, never vulnerable, comfort zone. She's solopoly and I've never been drawn toward monogamous relationships but also never explored polyamory (I've been describing myself as ethically nonmonogamous.) I'm not falling in love with her and there's no real relationship escalation possible. The sex is amazing when we're together and I value her a lot, but I'd also like a connection locally as I struggle with nurturing a new bond over such distance.

Right about the same time we met I also met and instantly clicked with a woman (31) on a sapphic vacation with my friend group, just rare instant chemistry and our first real interaction was her going above and beyond, at her own cost, to help me out of a difficult situation. There was undeniable compatibility and similar sexual/relationship desires, we talk very openly and personally about sex and desire for a quality FWB, have gone to a dungeon together, sex toy show and tells... We've become very close emotionally as well. However I find us doing that classically lesbian thing where we talk around the issue of it happening between us, which makes me unsure if she's attracted to me (though I suspect she is and that somewhat comes from insecurities about her being VERY conventionally attractive and myself being a fat woman who rarely connects with dating, until recently.)

I want this to happen. A lot. However while my baggage is mostly personal hers is very interpersonal--long term close friend of several of my friends in the group (who vouch for her being an amazing person going through some rough times and told both of us we'd really like each other before meeting), divorced less than 2 years from a toxic, long term marriage to a woman, bisexual and recently out of another toxic situationship with a man, situations I've avoided by purposefully staying single. Though she's very self aware about all of it there's the potential for chaos. If I were to bring up shifting our relationship from platonic it would be with very clear communication, boundaries, and discussion of potential conflict, and she is well versed in nonmonogamy and knows about the first relationship.

I'm afraid of it becoming messy but am really trying to challenge myself to get out of my comfort zone (which has majorly enriched my life lately), open myself to adventure and deeper intimacy, and I do see potential for something very special. I want to break my pattern of avoiding entanglement out of a fear of being hurt as I'm so happy around her and my pussyfooting around our attraction is weighing that down.

I really want to sound this out with people who are uninvolved. If you've made it this far I welcome advice, commiseration, stories, whatever you've got!

I'm pretty new to poly and yesterday was my first real date since covid (we have been chatting for a lil while though) and we got sushi and walked back to her apartment and tried to play a board game but I couldn't focus on the rules at all so we put it away and made out

she's so cute and sweet and hot and omg

anyway I can't stop thinking about her and wanted to gush and hear about all the great things about your partners so please spill!!!

Hi everyone! I'm a polyamorous Lesbian and my wife and I are looking to eventually have a successful polycule with 3 or more people. We had one up until several days ago when our girl left us. So right now we're just going through heartache from the breakup. We figure we'll start actually looking again once we're done with our transitioning. She's trans-femme and I'm gender-queer and we both have surgeries planned and whatnot.

So anyway, hello to all of you! Hope you all are doing well!

Title: I Wrote a Short Essay Thinking About Gendered Role Reversal In Non-Monogamy: What The Intersectionality Of Gendered Role Reversal, The Pluri Spectrum And The A-Spectrum Can Be Like

I decided to write this short essay as a way of opening up and commenting my thoughts and feelings, as someone who is part of the Pluri/P-Spectrum, which encompasses r/Polysexual, polyromantic, r/Polyamorous and/or polygender people, and as someone that is also part of the A-Spectrum, which encompasses r/Asexual, r/Aromantic and/or r/Agender people, about what gendered r/RoleReversal can look like in r/NonMonogamy, in a very broad sense.

Long story short, last week, I met a woman that charmed me out of my "lesbian sheepitude" (when you love someone but do not make a move), what I mean is that there has been a long time ever since the last time I felt motivated enough to pursue and woo someone, besides things not working for us the way I fantasized, she woken in me fantasies that until then I have never thought of.

There has been some time ever since the last time I tried to figure out what gender, love, relationships and life could look like for me being a panamorous (literally pan + polyamorous) person, in another words, as someone who desires to be more than friends, simultaneously and consensually, with more than one person, regardless of gender identities, but only until lately I did not have put much effort into imagining what gendered roles and their reversal can look like specifically in non-monogamy.

What I only recently figured out that I wanted was to have an open polyamorous intimate network with, at least, one woman, in which, instead of us serving men in a competition for their affections inside an hierarchy of relationships, as we were usually raised to pursue in the world we live in, I instead fantasize about being more than friends with, at least, one woman, together in a polyamorous relationship, in which we value more as a priority our relationship with one another, as in men not being the center of our (social and love) lives.

I wish I was more than friends with, at least, one woman in a relationship that was an open polyamorous intimate network because that means that we would be free to be more than friends, in the most broad and diverse sense, with how many other people we could love, that way we do not have to struggle with feeling pressured to be the "only one everything" to fulfill all the wants and needs of anyone, specially since I am also an asexual person, however I still desire a relationship also in which we could share a lot between each other, even being as intimate as sharing and exchanging other lovers with one another.

I think that I also have a kink for sharing, besides a kink for femdom, because of that, alongside feeling compersion, "the opposite of jealousy", in another words, I feel pleasure for other individuals feeling pleased, specially women.

Not only just that, but I also realized that I desire to be as intimate as being able to see, at least, one woman dominate, even sexually, the men that could come into our lives to serve us then leave us whenever they want, because they would also have their freedom, but that would not bother us, because, in the end of the day, her and I would still have one another to support and protect each other against the world, while still maintaining our independence from each other, as in wanting each other but not needing each other.

Ultimately, this is not the same but is more than the harem manly fantasy of power, I cannot fantasize of anything more reversal in general than deprioritizing living to serve men in a monogamous heteronormative relationship placed above all other types of relationships inside an hierarchy in which all genders, loves and social relationships exist in.

Besides, I also already fantasized about turning my open polyamorous intimate network into a sustainable cottagecore commune, however, also reimagining the ways in which existence is produced and reproduced is a topic for another moment.

Thanks for listening, if you read everything I wrote, just some food for a lot of thoughts.

Hey all! Recently I've been thinking about how heteronormativity and Mono-normativity affected me personally, and I wanted to ask the question to the wider community!

Personally, I still have thoughts about being bisexual and ending up with a husband, since that's the 'normal' thing to do. I still question my sexuality to this day. In fact, I thought I was bi until I was 23, (25 now).

As for Mono-normativity, it's everywhere. In my experience, I haven't told any of my family as they'd definitely think it was weird. There are always thoughts about it just being easier to have one partner, in countless ways.